Is the Cross the Most Powerful Symbol in World History?

Originally posted by GreatTech
I believe it is. Which of the following would you choose regarding the Cross of Jesus Christ and what it signifies?

1) Death, Afterlife, and Eternity.
2) Death and Afterlife, but not Eternity.
3) Death And Eternity, but not Afterlife.
4) Afterlife and Eternity, but not Death.
5) Death only.
6) Afterlife only.
7) Eternity only.
8) None of the above.

I choose 1. We must die to truly experience the afterlife, and we must experience the afterlife to truly experience Eternity.

I agree with you GreatTech. Number 1 is my choice! Death, Afterlife, and Eternity are brought together in the cross to the conquest of death by Life -- Life Eternal! But along with the defeat of death through Christ crucified, ALL evil was defeated, including falsehood by Truth, and hatred by Love, emptiness by Abundance, weakness by Power, ignorance by Wisdom, darkness by Light, sin by Holiness, etc., for Jesus Christ was, is, and always shall be the incarnation of all of those Divine attributes. So the cross represents not only the conquest of death by Jesus Christ but the conquest of all other deadly things...so this makes the Cross the most powerful symbol in the history of the world.

God bless you also!

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
concerning the ankh

it consists of two symbols..

the cross.... the two 1's(ones) I spoke of earlier
and
a zero...

the mystifying zero symbol...

What is a zero? ..... a bent, one? ... connected to itself?
and what is a one?
an unbent one?... unconnected?

well why is the one.... 'unconnected'? ... so it is free to connect to other ones?, or to divide zeros? ....

But then what is the zero? a one whose connected at the beginning and the end?

AS per usual Pure Energy, you bring up an important aspect of the subject,albeit in a round about way... The zero or the letter O has always represented eternity and the Godhead, the beginning and end of all things. Without the zero, there would be no beginning or ending point.

The 1 represents division and individuality. While to the carnal mind, the number one is bigger tat zero, in the grand scheme of things the number one is less and has much less significance than the zero does.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SkyWay

I agree with you GreatTech. Number 1 is my choice! Death, Afterlife, and Eternity are brought together in the cross to the conquest of death by Life -- Life Eternal! But along with the defeat of death through Christ crucified, ALL evil was defeated, including falsehood by Truth, and hatred by Love, emptiness by Abundance, weakness by Power, ignorance by Wisdom, darkness by Light, sin by Holiness, etc., for Jesus Christ was, is, and always shall be the incarnation of all of those Divine attributes. So the cross represents not only the conquest of death by Jesus Christ but the conquest of all other deadly things...so this makes the Cross the most powerful symbol in the history of the world.

God bless you also!

SkyWay, thank you for your excellent comments. Well said!!!

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Jesus comitted suicide (yes, it was his choice to die) to give "LOVE" self awareness, consciousness, and intelligence.

Esoteric Teacher, Jesus Christ committed suicide??? He did not. He was murdered and martyred for His Perfect Belief System (revealing how sinful people can be)!!! Billions of Christians have inculcated His teaching into their daily life because of His Divine Word and Actions!!! To call Jesus Christ's death a suicide is an insult to Divinity for Infinite reasons.

Well, to Christians, of course, yes. And as some other people in this thread mentioned, to the Egyptians and the Celts, yes.

But to the Romans, one of the most powerful, if not THEE most powerful empires in history, the cross represented shame. Not that hard to believe, considering that was their main method of execution.

Originally posted by Kacen
Well, to Christians, of course, yes. And as some other people in this thread mentioned, to the Egyptians and the Celts, yes.

But to the Romans, one of the most powerful, if not THEE most powerful empires in history, the cross represented shame. Not that hard to believe, considering that was their main method of execution.

But did not Pilate, a governor in the Roman Empire, initially attempt to free Jesus Christ? Pilate finally consented, in my belief, because he and his group feared the evil crowd.

Originally posted by GreatTech

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Jesus comitted suicide (yes, it was his choice to die) to give "LOVE" self awareness, consciousness, and intelligence.

Esoteric Teacher, Jesus Christ committed suicide??? He did not. He was murdered and martyred for His Perfect Belief System (revealing how sinful people can be)!!! Billions of Christians have inculcated His teaching into their daily life because of His Divine Word and Actions!!! To call Jesus Christ's death a suicide is an insult to Divinity for Infinite reasons.

actually in a sense it was suicide.. he let them kill him .... he accepted it.. and understood why he had to...
because he resurrected the oldest way of life.. once again.. at the end times to give those who had eyes to see and ears to hear the best example of the philosophy and the impact of it on humanity.. the philosophy being the acceptance and understanding of all things..
he was the oddest person anyone had ever seen, which is why he had such an impact.. imagine someone these days who accepted and understood everything?
With absolute love for everything? .. We'd write about him and ponder about him for years and years... no different.. or perhaps totally different, perhaps we'd actually want to know how ...

The infinity symbol that was shown earlier..

its the union of two seperate ones who completed themselves... it takes the bad and good with both, flips them and compares one against the other to create another seperate one from the equation of:
Beginning from one / against end of the other
End from one / against beginning of the other

now each one would work like this to create kids if:
beginning is GOOD and end is BAD

Beginning from one / against end of the other = all of the GOOD would out-weigh the BAD ...


End from one / against beginning of the other = all of the GOOD would out-weigh the BAD ...

Light/GOOD always wins out... for some reason ..
but only the highest vibrations carry on... it doesn't mean the highest possible, it means the highest that are available at the moment of conception.

Now this goes without saying.. but .. since the past only exists entangibly, a person is never always tangibly a certain way. .. a person is only a mother if they choose to take on the roll, regardless of technicalities... and that goes down the line for anything.. all that matters is what you do tangibly and why.. and thus far LOVE appears to be the best tangible program of thought, because thought=action.

[edit on 11/20/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Did Jesus Christ suffer the most painful death ever? I believe He did as I believe He is Supernatural with senses that are Infinitely Amplified. All for the greatest cause in history: to draw sinners closer to God.

Praise Jesus Christ, our Savior, for reducing sins in our lives!!!

Originally posted by GreatTech
Did Jesus Christ suffer the most painful death ever? I believe He did as I believe He is Supernatural with senses that are Infinitely Amplified. All for the greatest cause in history: to draw sinners closer to God.

Praise Jesus Christ, our Savior, for reducing sins in our lives!!!

He has NEVER suffered... Please read these carefully..

But I said " I am afraid because of what you have told me, that indeed little (ones) are, in our view, the counterfeit ones, indeed, that there are multitudes that will mislead other multitudes of living ones, and destroy them among themselves. And when they speak your name they will be believed."

The Savior said, "For a time determined for them in proportion to their error they will rule over the little ones. And after the completion of the error, the never-aging one of the immortal understanding shall become young, and they (the little ones) shall rule over those who are their rulers. The root of their error he shall pluck out, and he shall put it to shame so that it shall be manifest in all the impudence which it has assumed to itself. And such ones shall become unchangeable, O Peter."

"Come therefore, let us go on with the completion of the will of the incorruptible Father. For behold, those who will bring them judgment are coming, and they will put them to shame. But me they cannot touch. And you, O Peter, shall stand in their midst. Do not be afraid because of your cowardice. Their minds shall be closed, for the invisible one has opposed them."

When he had said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said "What do I see, O Lord? That it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?"

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place."

But he said to me, "I have told you, 'Leave the blind alone!'. And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."

And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. And he was filled with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them, and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed.

And he said to me, "Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know them through revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons, and the stony vessel in which they dwell, of Elohim, of the cross, which is under the Law. But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking at those who did him violence, while they are divided among themselves. Therefore he laughs at their lack of perception, knowing that they are born blind. So then the one susceptible to suffering shall come, since the body is the substitute. But what they released was my incorporeal body. But I am the intellectual Spirit filled with radiant light. He whom you saw coming to me is our intellectual Pleroma, which unites the perfect light with my Holy Spirit."

"These things, then, which you saw you shall present to those of another race who are not of this age. For there will be no honor in any man who is not immortal, but only (in) those who were chosen from an immortal substance, which has shown that it is able to contain him who gives his abundance. Therefore I said, 'Every one who has, it will be given to him, and he will have plenty.' But he who does not have, that is, the man of this place, who is completely dead, who is removed from the planting of the creation of what is begotten, whom, if one of the immortal essence appears, they think that they possess him - it will be taken from him and be added to the one who is. You, therefore, be courageous and do not fear at all. For I shall be with you in order that none of your enemies may prevail unto you. Peace be to you, Be strong!"

The Lord said, "James, do not be concerned for me or for this people. I am he who was within me. Never have I suffered in any way, nor have I been distressed. And this people has done me no harm. But this (people) existed as a type of the archons, and it deserved to be destroyed through them. But [...] the archons, [...] who has [...] but since it [...] angry with [...] The just [...] is his servant. Therefore your name is **"James the Just". You see how you will become sober when you see me. And you stopped this prayer. Now since you are a just man of God, you have embraced me and kissed me. Truly I say to you that you have stirred up great anger and wrath against yourself. But (this has happened) so that these others might come to be."

Now in the hour before the rising of the sun, just before the angels of the Earthly Mother breathe life into the still sleeping earth, then do you enter into the Holy Stream of Life. It is your Brother Tree who holds the mystery of this Holy Stream, and it is your Brother Tree that you will embrace in your thought, even as by day you embrace him in greeting when you walk along the lake shore. And you shall be one with the tree, for in the beginning of the times so did we all share in the Holy Stream of Life that gave birth to all creation.

reluctant-messenger.com...
www.earlychristianwritings.com...
www.gnosis.org...

**Reference to James the Just in the Gospel of St. Thomas.

[edit on 11/21/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

PuRe EnErGy, interesting. What are your external sources?

Do you have a religion?

Originally posted by GreatTech
PuRe EnErGy, interesting. What are your external sources?

Do you have a religion?

hrm... the religeon of the living GOD? ... the religeon of the Children of Light? .. I dunno.. I don't claim any religeon... but am all for the living GOD..

The crucifix was a symbol of torture and oppression to the conquered slaves of Rome, so it was a great act that Christ delivered it into the hands of the slaves as a symbol of both justice and freedom.

The swastika has been known to ancient cultures both in the East and West, as a symbol of the four corners and the convergence of that energy. The nazi's did an 'anti-Christ' transformation on that one.




So many symbols, so little time. I don't know which one's greatest. It's all good.

Ask William Henry.


[edit on 21-11-2006 by clearwater]

Originally posted by GreatTech
Esoteric Teacher, Jesus Christ committed suicide??? He did not.

As the Father knows me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. ~John 10:15

Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
~John 10:17-18

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
~John 15:13

He did, indeed, lay down his life voluntarily.

To call Jesus Christ's death a suicide is an insult to Divinity for Infinite reasons.

Is not martyrdom suicide?

'My faithful martyr Anitpas...'

queenannie38, suicide is an extremely sensitive subject. One of my sisters has a boyfriend whose sister committed suicide. He and his family were devastated. Suicide is death caused by one's hands not others.

Jesus Christ did NOT die of suicide; He died at the hands of others. He is the most remarkable person to have walked the earth and the Ultimate Martyr for His Incontrovertible and Irreversible Communion with God.

No true martyr has or definitionally will commit suicide. Martyrdom is the ultimate test of faith in God, and each known martyr that has existed in history has been honored by my church.

Many believe in God, but few believe in God like a true martyr.

Originally posted by GreatTech
queenannie38, suicide is an extremely sensitive subject. One of my sisters has a boyfriend whose sister committed suicide. He and his family were devastated. Suicide is death caused by one's hands not others.

Jesus Christ did NOT die of suicide; He died at the hands of others. He is the most remarkable person to have walked the earth and the Ultimate Martyr for His Incontrovertible and Irreversible Communion with God.

No true martyr has or definitionally will commit suicide. Martyrdom is the ultimate test of faith in God, and each known martyr that has existed in history has been honored by my church.

Many believe in God, but few believe in God like a true martyr.

I understand what your saying... it isn't directly self-inflicted..

but what Jesus The Christ did, was give us an example of accepting and understanding against the worst odds (death)...

but regardless, he said himself, that he lay down his own life..
meaning he could have prevented it, but understood WHY he had to do it...
Because we would never understand, acceptance and understanding without that final act, accepting and understanding death.

John 10:16
[10:16] And other sheep I have, which
are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall
hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one
shepherd. [10:17] Therefore doth my Father love me,
because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
[10:18] No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of
myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to
take it again. This commandment have I received of my
Father.

[edit on 11/22/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

I think we are playing semantics here in this little discussion about Christ's motives. While he certainly donated his life to the world, I don't think that it can be legitimately argued that he "committed suicide." Suicide implies death at ones own hands... Christ did not kill himself the was killed by he hands of others.
When one is discussing suicide from the bible,one must look towards Judas as an example of what real suicide is.


[edit on 22-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I think we are playing semantics here in this little discussion about Christ's motives. While he certainly donated his life to the world, I don't think that it can be legitimately argued that he "committed suicide." Suicide implies death at ones own hands... Christ did not kill himself the was killed by he hands of others.
When one is discussing suicide from the bible,one must look towards Judas as an example of what real suicide is.


[edit on 22-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

exactly.. Judas commited suicide... (do you know the meaning behind that??)....
Judas' motives were self-hate.. or rather just hate.... Christ who said "I lay it down of MYSELF" ... had a reason... Christ had intent.. (Christ IS intent .. intent for LOVE)

Yet a sacrifice just the same - and IMO Judas was part of the whole thing - he gave up much more than anyone cares to admit, I think...

I also suspect that he was actually Jesus's brother.

Didymus Judas Thomas....the 'twin'

Judas Iscariot was the only one who was from Galilee, too.

Back to the idea of suicide - I never thought of it that way until ET mentioned it - I did some searching - the only time you see 'martyr' and 'suicide' mentioned as synonymous is in regard to what goes on in the feuding over across the waters to the East...

and just now, your post, Speaker, brought something to my mind, as well...

those people who we sometimes hear about who bring about altercations with the police to the point that the police kill them....because they want to be killed but either can't or won't do it themselves...it was more prevalent a few years back, it seems.
One such situation happened here - it was a tragedy for both sides involved, too.

Not that I'm saying Christ did that...my main point is really just the fact that he didn't have to give his life up without even the slightest protest - as PuRe said, it was a lesson for us...and I truly don't think the Father sent Him here expressly to die - although certainly it was inevitable and expected...the people hate and kill the good ones because they show us our evil, as He told the disciples...

It is such a complicated issue, as far as reasons and what-not. I had a lot of trouble with it for a long time....but the trouble was caused by my own fears related to death.
Once that is gone, it not such a 'stone of stumbling.'

Although I am a Big Bang man, and contend that man invented God and not the other way round, that is begging the question asked. After admitting the cross is the best known symbol, OTOH, it seems to have had very little effect on mankind. One of the major reasons religion has declined in Europe is found in War One, when religionists blessed the soldiers on both sides of the Great War, in which 15 million men of marriageable age were killed. This left 15 million women of marriageable age without a husband. A whole generation gone missing in action. Or KIA if you prefer. Then, 21 years later, one generation, came War Two, killing even more than War 1. Where was God?

Followers of the cross are no worse than but no better than, followers of the crescent or the star of David or the ankh. But we keep trying to find some easy way to success. Not yet, but the looking is worth it.

A powerful symbol? I have no idea how you would measure that. We no longer believe in demon possession, so it cannot be used in exorcism. Demons are now under the jurisdiction of Sigmund Freud and his followers.

Despite the urgency placed on canonizing John Paul II by his successor, we cannot find 2 miracles that would pass muster in 2006. Aside: Why not proclaim JP2 a saint, and dispense with the old time process? I think people would have a higher regard for JP2 if a more straightforward procedure was followed. We all know he did good. Even many Catholics no longer depend on the excess of goodness of a saint to get them into Heaven. That's old style. We need religion to be new style.

Powerful symbol? How can you explain then, that in 1204 AD, Christian Crusaders under the symbol of the Cross, conquered and sacked the greatest city in the West, Constantinople, also under the protection of the same Cross? www.geocities.com...


[edit on 11/22/2006 by donwhite]

Suicide is not the same as the Sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for us.

What Christ did was more akin to a bodyguard who voluntarily leaps into the line of fire to take the bullet that was intended for the person he is protecting.

Jesus took the shot for all mankind so that we may continue to live, and live eternally. He didn't commit suicide, He took the bullet for us.