UCLA Police Taser Student For Not Showing ID W/Video

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic

Originally posted by nextguyinline
That pdf summed up pretty much what I saw. It made good points about the urgency of getting him out of there because of the crowding students.

Also, it said that all force incidents are reviewed and this particular case is being presented to the city attorney.

And why were the students crowding?

After one tazing couldn't they not pick him up and carry him out?

[edit on 16-11-2006 by CuriousSkeptic]

According to the pdf, they were crowding because the student was rallying them to his cause. I didn't or couldn't hear that on the video.

The pdf also specifically says the officers deemed it necessary for the force, so I think the investigation will come back with a short suspension, probably for the one who used the taser. Especially if look at it like this...

so you just used a device to incapacitate to an individual who was resisting by becoming purposely incapacitated by not moving at all.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
grim

You skipped the part where he encouraged other students to join in.
True? CYA? I don't know..

But it IS another side to the story..
Somewhere in between is the truth..

and does that warrant taser use? NOPE, thus its irrelevent. They can slap him for insighting a protest, but Im not sure if thats a crime lol.

anyway nothing he did requires a taser. The document said what a taser is used for. The taser was not used for this purpose, clearly shown in the video. Thus its abused, and they should be punished.

Oh My Gosh I just saw this tonight for the first time, and I'm really pissed about this. This is deplorable, and guess what....I'm not a liberal....

I hope this kid has a solid case against these gestapo police. There was a homeless man tasered at a walmart here in the NW just about a month ago...he was sleeping in a tent at walmart and the police tasered him because he had a plastic knife...he died from being tasered. I can't believe this

I know we have some cops on ATS..
I'd love to hear a cop's point of view.

Where's a cop when you need him/her?

Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
And why were the students crowding?

After one tazing couldn't they not pick him up and carry him out?

[edit on 16-11-2006 by CuriousSkeptic]

if he was already limp, the result of being tased, why could they just carry him out without tasing him at all?

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not against someone getting tazed in principal (although I question whether it was needed here). If you remember the cop who pepper sprayed the lady who wouldn't respond to him in the car, I was in support of that. However, this kid was tazed five times in a period of under three minutes. Tazing this individual once and then carrying him off is enough, however these police officers tazed him five times in a small amount of time screaming at him to get on his feet when the whole point of a tazer is to incapicate you. And then they threatened other students... they threatened other students... they threatened other students...

I still don't get how any of this can be justified.

Originally posted by groingrinder
The student in question did not have a weapon and was not threatening the cops. There was no reason to taser him other than the cops just wanted to show him "who was the boss". They had him outnumbered and could have subdued him and taken him into custody without the tasers. Policemen have taken people into custody without tasers for millenia now.

The video obviously starts well after the confrontation started. At the beginning of the video he is most definitely not walking out cooperatively. He's making a scene, locking his body and having to be forcibly taken through the door. Those reactions made him get tasered.

I'm not saying it was completely legit that they tasered him to begin with. I think my main issues with the encounter are what led up to the tasering ... primarily what was the thrust of the initial encounter. I've never heard of random ID checks in a library. I wonder if UCLA has problems with non students using their library. But then I've been a visitor to several college libraries and have never been asked to show ID in order to peruse the books and use their computers.

If I hadn't driven to the library I may or may not have my ID on me. Or being that it is an unusual question I may be a little hesistant to share it with someone asking as well. If they were there investiagting a report of a "suspicious person" or some sort of complaint it would be a little different. But since when in the USA is it acceptable to be ID'd randomly?

Maybe UCLA has same municipal code that requires people on their campus or in the library to submit to random ID checks. If so then UCLA is covered. It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Say you're at the park on a nice sunny day reading a book. An officer shows up and demands to see an ID ... how would you react? He's not saying he's there becase someone called you in as a suspicious or that someone reported you somehow disturbing someones peace ... he's just doing a random ID check of citizens at the park. I just might have a problem forking my ID over ... and I am definitely pro-law enforcement ... but I have the right to sit peacefully and be left alone.

An officer has to have probable cause to detain someone(without their being a complaint or some sort of call for service) ... they can ask and interact with someone all they want and it is considered a consentual contact ... but the second they want to keep you from coming or making you leave there needs to be a probable cause.There has to be direct sight of a violation or strong suspicion of some violation.

Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by spacedoubt
grim

You skipped the part where he encouraged other students to join in.
True? CYA? I don't know..

But it IS another side to the story..
Somewhere in between is the truth..

and does that warrant taser use? NOPE, thus its irrelevent. They can slap him for insighting a protest, but Im not sure if thats a crime lol.

I disagree..It just might warrant use of non-lethal force. 3 cops against one..which might turn into 3 cops against 30 or 40 people. It's a tough call.

Originally posted by spacedoubt

Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by spacedoubt
grim

You skipped the part where he encouraged other students to join in.
True? CYA? I don't know..

But it IS another side to the story..
Somewhere in between is the truth..

and does that warrant taser use? NOPE, thus its irrelevent. They can slap him for insighting a protest, but Im not sure if thats a crime lol.

I disagree..It just might warrant use of non-lethal force. 3 cops against one..which might turn into 3 cops against 30 or 40 people. It's a tough call.

From the video it looked as if the other students didn't get involved until they started tazing him. In fact from the video the kids looked rather disinterested at first. I respect your opinions and fairness though. I greatly appreciate the conversation going on in this thread and I'm happy that a lot of the cuckoo posts have disappeared..

[edit on 16-11-2006 by CuriousSkeptic]

I agree, on what the video showed.
You could tell that the person tkaing the video was trying to remain out of sight,
some of the shots were of nothing..and it looks as though it was being held low, behind those half height cubicles..


I wonder what the security cameras might show?

They must have Security cameras.

Vitchilo...sarcasm was lost on my comment obviously...and yeah I must apologize for not getting the make model and serial number that makes my claim valid for you.

*sigh*

Gets a bit silly round here sometimes.

It was their fault for not carrying him out when he went limp. They could have easily picked him up and removed him from the building. Its rather simple.

Either they choose not to move him and its their fault, or they are too weak to pick him up, and they should all be fired for inability to do their job. Their job requires a minimum amount of physical shape, and if the three of them together cant lift him, then they are not qualified.

One way they are in complete wrong, and the other the entire system is in the complete wrong. I doubt the three of them together couldn't lift him though, since they apparently didnt try. They just zapped him instead. When your a cop thats too lazy to lift a person and rather deliver extreme pain to the person so they will eventually get up hopefully, you don't deserve to be a cop.

Cops? All the dealers know not to argue when they arrive to rip them off.





Amnesty International is concerned about the use of tazers. They're regarded as a non-lethal weapon and used too readily. There have been at least 160 deaths since cops started using them. Unfortunately they kill people who have heart problems or who are already jacked up and can't take the strain, so coroners blame that.

Wow who in here said, he was being a prick by not standing up?

a) How about we jolt you with electricity and tell you to get up. Then when you can't get angry and jolt you again. He wasn't being a # by not getting up, he physically couldn't.

b) 3 cops vs one guy. THE GUY WAS HANDCUFFED. Those cops could easily bring him out of the campus. Instead they tortured him with a taser. Yes it is torture. Asking the guy to do the, at the time, impossible then shocking him again when you get mad.

Well I think this guy wanted to make a scene and the cops did a great job of doing everything wrong to make it the show he wanted.

I don't understand why you are using a taser as a cattle prod to move someone. Handcuff him and haul him out.

Why are campus cops doing ID checks in a computer lab? Don't you have a system where someone in the lab asks for the ID first and then tells the individual to leave? Did that happen already and then the cops were called?

For those that think you don't need to show an ID...HECK YEAH YOU DO! What if this was a high school and the guy was a shooter? Some schools and colleges require an ID to prove you belong on campus in hopes of reducing these school shootings or campus crime by people that had no right being there. To make a jump that this is a NAZI tactic is ridiculous...you need to show an ID to drink and you need to show an ID when you drive and now you even have to show an ID when you use your Debit or Credit Card!! What if I came to your house as the Meter Reader and looked legit and you asked for my ID to prove I should be there and I said: "No" and kept hanging around your house until you started getting pushy? Maybe I'm really a meter reader checking your electricity usage or maybe I'm a thief scounting my route into your house for the next day.

Either way the cops repeatedly using a taser is wrong...I wonder if they were following police procedures? If so they may get off the hook and UCLA itself may end up getting sued for allowing the procedure.





[edit on 17/11/06 by Atomic]

Originally posted by Griff
The thing I find strange is you would have to show your student ID in the first place to even be in the library. Why the double "random" check?

Really? I go to my college library, or 3 other computer lab rooms and don't have to show any identification.

The video doesn't show everything in my opinion, from what I do gather you can hear the kid refusing to be touched. "don't touch me! don't touch me!" If I was a cop that would concern me why this kid is getting so aggressive. What's he hiding? Or is he just so anti-government that he disrespects the authority? (Which seems so to his patriot act remark) I think this may be it. So before the patriot act police could not stop and ask for ID? okay....

As to the Taser... I really think its not the best of tools police use. I think they should have it but have new guidelines as to who it should be used on. And after being shocked that many times I really am not surprised the kid didn't want to stand up. I know police depts who issue tasers to their officers, the officers get a taste of what it is like but I'm not sure if this is uniform to all police depts.

The kid could of avoided all of this, so he doesn't have a school ID? Show license? SO he doesn't have a license? Ok explain this to the police. Give them your name tell them you're a student there... "Here look you can check my enrollment".




[edit on 17-11-2006 by DoomX]

[edit on 17-11-2006 by DoomX]

If you read the story. They stopped him first. Didn't ask for id until he was done telling him not to touch him. HE WAS LEAVING THE LIBRARY

Originally posted by Pepperslappy
If you read the story. They stopped him first. Didn't ask for id until he was done telling him not to touch him. HE WAS LEAVING THE LIBRARY

I read (after googling about 20 stories) in the LA Times that he was asked to leave first by campus security (not the cops in the video...probably students) earlier becasue he didn't have an ID and refused and THEN the cops were called. I keep trying to make out what is being said at the desk to the guy with the cell phone because it sounds like the guy there is telling him something about why this escalated.

Still the cops using that taser the way they did was wrong, but it sounds like this guy was being an ass before the cops came. If some cops did that to my friend, even if he was being a jerk, I'd be furious. You don't expect that level of force. I smell lawsuit.

nothing new, cops will beat the # out of you if you don't cooperate...believe me i got beat before...i guess i would do the same thing if i was a cop...whatever, that kid was kind of annoying anyways...

Completely Unjustified..

In what world do a majority on here, that believe this is justifiable believe this was a "Righteous action" on behalf of the campus security in order to "Protect the betterment of the establishment".

There was no need to resort to a tazer. How many people does it take to escort someone out? Three?

In my personal thought, I believe that OUT OF CONVIENENCE it's usually smart to just do what officers or other law enforcement demand, like in this instance, showing your I.D. but as I said.. that's out convienence.

HOWEVER... I applaud people such as this student and others who've exercised their constitutional rights, because it helps us keep away from a state of conditioning, where we become so accustomed to this "police-type" state.. where being tazered for violating an I.D. check can be justified easily.

IN ALL honestly, where do you guys see the justification? Do you enjoy this sort of torture, because lack for a better word, that's in all reality what it is. He wasn't a criminal, he didn't hold the library hostage. He simply refused to reveal his I.D. and he got tazered multiple times? Do you enjoy this sort of treatment?

Really? Oh, because we don't want you here. Take a trip to the People's Republic of China, I'm sure they're like minded with those of you who feel this was justified, and they also share your opinions of the denial of civil liberties and unfair treatment, or work at a prison if you really get a chubby over these sort of actions.

Seriously.. where do you all get off on thinking this was clearly justifiable..?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
It's not nazi germany, it's america.

He wait about 20 seconds after he get tasered before tasered him again. Do you know how much time being tasered affects you? Big guys, 45 to 1 minute, some people, 10 minutes.
They should be fired and the guy should sue them for abuse of power.

I couldnt see what happened in the video very well, but if it sounds like I think, the officers should be fired. This isnt about the patriot act, this is about two campus police who went too far. This has nothing to do with the Patriot Act, the video almost sounds scripted to me anyways.

If the cops in the vid did indeed taser this student for not showing ID, they should lose their job along with their license to own a firearm. But I'm not too sure about this, the vid seems scripted in some fashion.