UCLA Police Taser Student For Not Showing ID W/Video

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Those pigs won't get away with this.

*snip* you!!!! Do you have any idea what it means to be a cop and have teh media breathing down your neck every time there is an arrest because you MAY have used excessive force? Do you know what its like to be in these kinds of situations? Were you there when it happened? I wasn't, but as I said in my earlier post, if this use of force was unwarranted then the officers should be punished or lose their jobs. But we dont know, do we. The vid sounds scripted to me because of the dialogue the kid used, and the camera seemed to be waiting there for this to happen. You have no idea what its like to be a cop these days and have you thrown in with all the bad cops out there just because you wear the same uniform. I am studying to be a cop, and yes studying to be a cop, because I want to be the best I can at what I will eventually do. Cops arent high school drop outs these days, they are college grads, even the campus cops these days have to have at least a bachelors to get the job they have. So next time, maybe show a little respect to those who get none usually simply because they are doing their jobs. You never know, you cant tell from the video if the kid was resisting or not.



Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 11/17/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by Masisoar
Completely Unjustified..

In what world do a majority on here, that believe this is justifiable believe this was a "Righteous action" on behalf of the campus security in order to "Protect the betterment of the establishment".

There was no need to resort to a tazer. How many people does it take to escort someone out? Three?

As I said before, were you there? As someone pointed out earlier, it appears the kid or whoever was resisting his own removal from somewhere he didnt belong? What would you say if the police resorted to physical violence and broke the kids arm, or dislocated his shoulder? Youd be saying the same #. Do you know anything about police procedure? About investigating an unruly individual in a public place who has been warned by local security and how you approach that individual? I thought not. So how bout you shut your yap about # you dont know about OK???

Originally posted by ludaChris


As I said before, were you there? As someone pointed out earlier, it appears the kid or whoever was resisting his own removal from somewhere he didnt belong? What would you say if the police resorted to physical violence and broke the kids arm, or dislocated his shoulder? Youd be saying the same #. Do you know anything about police procedure? About investigating an unruly individual in a public place who has been warned by local security and how you approach that individual? I thought not. So how bout you shut your yap about # you dont know about OK???

I love where you're getting at, because you're clearly taking offense to this. Hmm mission accomplished. And yeah I'd say the same thing.. since when does it take so much to bring someone out of a building.


Goooddbyeeee.

I believe this was an obvious abuse of power. The officers should face jail time in my opinion for such abuses. What warranted this brutality upon the victim? He didn't show his id? What other violent crime or action did he commit or was suspected of committing before the police resorted to their acts of terrorism and torture?

This brutality appears to have occurred in an otherwise quiet library. Is not showing an id cause for an arrest? The library should require an id to be shown to enter an area if it's that high security. Were there top secret documents he was stealing? I suspect not. It looked like he was simply reading or doing work on a computer. For this the police and others feel justified in committing torture. I see why a number of people thought the prison abuse scandals were no big deal now.

The video on youtube is disturbing and you can hear the pain in his screams as he was repeatedly abused. Was this all because he didn't show his library card or id? I always thought high security areas required an id or other means of identification to be shown to enter an area. I haven't heard about gestapo police disturbing students working quietly in a library by doing random id checks. Sounds like a stupid policy in my opinion if that was the case. Maybe he ran past some guards at the original id checkpoint and they thought he was going to blow up something. They sure acted like he was a threat.

I'm wondering if it's normal police training to tell someone to get up immediately after they taser someone or else they'll stick it to them again. Sounds like a good torture tactic if you're into torture.



[edit on 17-11-2006 by orionthehunter]

Originally posted by Masisoar
I love where you're getting at, because you're clearly taking offense to this. Hmm mission accomplished. And yeah I'd say the same thing.. since when does it take so much to bring someone out of a building.
Goooddbyeeee.

Taking the easy way out eh? And yes I do take offense to this seeing as I have a family of Police, Firemen, Nurses, Teachers ect(other public servants). They get shat on left and right in the media. Youd be surprised how much it can take to bring an individual down, depends alot on size, but can also depend on whether the individual was on drugs at the time. You dont know and I dont know as I said before. But there are still those of you who jump to the conclusion that the cop is wrong no matter what. Remember, they are people just like you and me. If the cop was wrong, Ill be the first to admit that.

Oh and by the way, its not the size of the man in the fight, its the size of the fight in the man.


[edit on 11/17/2006 by ludaChris]

I'll state my opinion here. The cop was wrong. If the individual wasn't an immediate threat to anyone, using a painful device upon an individual is wrong in my opinion. If the area was a high security area and he broke in, then he might expect to be roughed up. It didn't look like this was the case here.

Most good and effective laws seem to have a purpose of protecting the public or are supposedly for the general good of the country. If he violated something that was a stupid policy and got beat up or electrified why trying to resist such a stupid policy, the cops went too far in my opinion. The cops could have put handcuffs on him and read him his rights. Maybe he wasn't because he wasn't breaking the law though. I don't know the full story so I won't comment anymore for now.

From the Police Training Institute

Source
(click view as HTML or view as PDF)

As a result of this examination, it appears that Tasers are a viable option for use as a less- lethal device. The likelihood of serious injury as a result of a Taser’s employment appears to be no greater than other less-lethal options currently in use, and probably less likely.

This does not mean it is impossible for a suspect to be seriously injured in an
incident in which a Taser is used.

A review of literature both cited by Taser International, Inc. and otherwise revealed that the level of electrical output or shock delivered by a Taser is very unlikely to cause permanent injury. In addition, recovery from a Taser shock is almost instantaneous, as opposed to other less-lethal options that may result in longer term recovery or require decontamination. Our limited research also revealed that Tasers may be an effective deterrent to resistance when simply deployed; that is, displayed with the intent to use if compliance is not immediately gained.

Scroll to the beginning of page 5 and there's a big list of "relevant" information on Tasers including some news articles offering some critique of the weapon.

It's actually quite funny...they use it, claim they are safe but admit to "limited research".

As used as it's intended and not as it was in this instance (the video) it's quite effective. The recovery time really is not an absolute thing either...

Health of the perpetrator, age, mental state, any drugs or drink in the system...a lot of unknowns.

A healthy individual bounces back quite quickly. Factor in adrenaline as well...

In this case though it's very clear that the police abused the use of the weapon...

That is not to say the kid didn't deserve to be booted out after creating such a disturbance but he didn't deserve tasering...

I did also see a video of a woman that was tasered when she refused to get out of her car on a routine traffic stop. Her license was expired and the troopers demanded she get out of the vehicle...she didn't comply and was tasered. She recovered in a few seconds, even after getting a good couple of zaps...she was a bit fuzzy but could clearly walk and stand on her own immediately after...

No real point to make that i haven't already made, just a bit more info.

Originally posted by justgeneric
It's actually quite funny...they use it, claim they are safe but admit to "limited research".

Hey that seems to be a trend in this thread. Most here seem to blame the cops for their actions due to "limited research."(Mostly limited facts though) Agree?

[edit on 11/17/2006 by ludaChris]

Firstly, I'm going to say that I'm English and I live in the UK.

Watching that video is like seeing something from a horror film. Its barabaric and digusting. Its the sort of thing I would have expected to see in a film about the Nazi's, or from the old Warsaw Pact/Soviet Union days when someone was condemned to have "betrayed" the state.

They treated the guy like an animal - and for what? For not showing ID? Thats sick. Why not just caution and cite him and get him to produce it at a later time? Fair enough, if he did not produce it within a given period then put out a warrant and arrest him.

If this is whats going on in modern America then the world is in deep trouble, because if you people start to accept this kind of thing then you are on a long, long slippery slope.

And if any of you know anything about history, you will know that this is the kind of thing that happened in Germany in the early 30's - admittedly without tazers but the ethos was the same. It started with the jews and moved on through society until anyone who didn't conform to a certain "type" could be condemned on a whim. You know what happened next.

"Land of the Free" ?? Didn't look like that to me.

407,300 US servicemen died in WW2 to prevent this kind of thing happening - now it seems that at least some of you accept it.

Well...things like this spark passionate responses. I had a hard time watching the video myself. Yes it made me initially angry that the police had chosen that course and it still does. There are and were other options for passive resistance (where a person refuses to comply by going limp) protesters use the tactic all the time...tasering is considered by many US police forces to be an acceptable means of "motivating" a perpetrator to comply.

Still...the student had all the control. He could have complied as that was all that was being asked of him. He didn't need to make a scene and become verbally abusive and didn't really need to resist.

If it's the policy of the UCLA to have an ID card and be able to show it if and when asked...then it's policy...compliance is required and part of the "contract" when using the facility.

Failing to present the card the student was asked to leave...seems pretty simple. Most people would grumble and complain and get badge numbers and names and then leave to pursue the issue later if it really ticked them off that badly.

Most people would not get all theatrical as this student chose to do.

I don't agree that the police used every option available prior to tasering. They jumped to it and it was the wrong person at the wrong time under the wrong circumstance.

Race was brought up earlier...but I give the benefit of a doubt to all before playing that card. Had it been a "white guy" the outcome likely would have been the same. It was a multi-cultured looking bunch of campus police and city police as far as the video showed anyway.

Be interesting to see what comes of this.

edit for missing word???

[edit on 11/17/2006 by justgeneric]

Originally posted by NJ Mooch
It's not Nazi Germany, it's America?

So this ID card idea that is used at UCLA was spawned by the Nazis?

Not showing ID in an area that requires ID is breaking the law. How can this not be understood? Not having an ID has consequences in this and many other countries. You may think this is stupid, but when it comes to security and meeting standards and protocols it isn't.

Oh yeah. About 20 years ago it was the LAW that all BLACK South Africans had to carry an ID with them and were not allowed outside after dark. If you were stopped without an ID (and you were black) you were immediately arrested and in many cases beaten - some tortured to death.

Strangely that law resulted in the rest of the world turning their backs on South Africa.

Racism. Most people are cat footing around the point that the student is from Arab descend.
Cop 1 : "There's an Arab. For the safety of the students let's ask him his ID... ID please Sir."
Student : "I don't have one. Leave me alone. [I'll leave?]"
Cop 1 : "You'll have to leave."
Student : "Leave me alone!"
Zap.
Cop 1 : "Get up."
Student : "Patriotic act @%$#!"
Cop 1 : Get up!"
Zap
And so on.

See Muslims are being harassed everywhere they go. I understand Americans are a bit PO'ed with the Muslims, but this is a clear indication that the racism is snowballing into something similar to the old South African situation. White vs blacks? Whites vs Muslims? Where will it end? Ask yourself if the situation would have been the same with a white student - even if he displayed the same aggressive attitude?

Anyway... Here's a news report with some eyewitness interviews:

www.youtube.com...

Gemwolf, you actually believe that the statement "leave me alone" constitutes "I'll leave!" I certainly dont. And once again the video doesnt do a very good job showing exactly what the police did to him, and to me looks staged based on the dialogue. Like this kid was trying to make a political statement with his comments on the vid, which is very possible but no one(of all the conspiracy theorists on this site) seems to want to bring up. Kind of makes it seem like a one way street, its a conspiracy as long as the govt does it. But oh, these kind of folk dont try to spread their own propaganda.

Originally posted by ludaChris
Gemwolf, you actually believe that the statement "leave me alone" constitutes "I'll leave!" I certainly dont. And once again the video doesnt do a very good job showing exactly what the police did to him, and to me looks staged based on the dialogue. Like this kid was trying to make a political statement with his comments on the vid, which is very possible but no one(of all the conspiracy theorists on this site) seems to want to bring up. Kind of makes it seem like a one way street, its a conspiracy as long as the govt does it. But oh, these kind of folk dont try to spread their own propaganda.

No one is sure whether he actually said he’d leave, that's why I put "I'll leave" in square brackets... And yes, I agree that it seems like there is some sort of underlying political agenda - and I believe this because of what he said -, but he couldn't have known that the scenario would play down the way it did.

I watch the video the first thing that comes to my mind is set up. The kid was playing these cops. Just watching the video I believe personally that this kid had the whole thing planned out. He may not expect the police to shoot him with a taser but he was trying hard to draw attention to himself. I don't buy the cops just saw an Arab at UCLA and ran over to question him. This guy was doing things intentionally to look and act in a suspicion way. So then someone called the cops. The cops arrived. Asked him for ID but of course he doesn't have one or will not show it - how convenient. Then he won't cooperate at all with the police who want to ask him some questions about why he is in a restricted area acting strange (remember he says he has a condition) without an ID, which are perfectly reasonable questions to ask in that case. Of course he has pushed the cops last nerve and won't do anything they ask and the cop tasers the kid who is ready to respond by yelling out a pre-ready political statement. /golfclap. In the end the kid won. He got the exact reaction he was looking for that day.

[edit on 17-11-2006 by zerotime]

I agree that the student was clearly being opportunistic when he started yelling about the Patriot Act... I doubt he for a second thought they'd really taser him...too bad more of the initial conversation between the student and campus police wasn't audible...

Lesson #1...if a police officer tells you they'll taser you...might be a good idea to assume they really will...they have the authority. (assuming they have a justified reason for requesting compliance)

Compliance with police is sadly often seen as an admission of guilt these days. There's so much mistrust and that is truly sad.

Gee I wonder how we got here?

[edit on 11/17/2006 by justgeneric]

Originally posted by Gemwolf
No one is sure whether he actually said he’d leave, that's why I put "I'll leave" in square brackets... And yes, I agree that it seems like there is some sort of underlying political agenda - and I believe this because of what he said -, but he couldn't have known that the scenario would play down the way it did.

Ok, just so we cleared that up and I know where you stand on this exactly. Generally I do this before I post, but this is a sensitive and emotional topic for me. My apollogies for jumping the gun on you.

But for the record, I believe this kid knew exactly what he was doing and what would happen.

[edit on 11/17/2006 by ludaChris]

Tasering a Student for Not Obaying orders is WACK and uncalled for, they could have easily picked him up and carried him oput!

But honest to god? what was wrong with that kid?

He was playing it for shure, Making a scene,

In no way shape or form do you scream like that whilst being taserd, I't dosent Hurt like you would think,

I Used to have a More powerfull one than the Police use, 600,000 Volts

Hi Voltage Low Amperage, Your not Really being Electrocuted!!! its just static

I've tried it on my friends and I let them taser me, yes it makes you go limp
But Does it relly hurt that bad? no it dosen't

av alook on youtube for Taser and see how manny People you see screaming like that

That Silly Young man was Overplaying it, Making a scene, And I bet Thats what he wanted

Don't be fooled, this was NOT Torture!

He shoulden't have been Taserd in the FirstPlace, but after Making a scene and ALL that Unessesery Screaming, I Can Understand

He Wanted It and he got It

The Police Were not Doing a very good Job and the Student, Was looking for a Bust UP

But It's certainly not Horrific like some of you have described.



[edit on 17-11-2006 by TrentReznor]

He shoulda showed his ID when asked and this wouldn't have happened.

It's like he was looking to start something. Next he'll probably start screaming "racism" and sue UCLA.


www.pe.com...

Theres a simple way to end this thread, the fact he screamed:

"I..SAID..I..WOULD..LEAVE!!!!"

K4rupt, is there something wrong with your brain, 3 strong and well trained policemen cannot handle a young man, so they taser him, you think thats right do you. So would you agree that the guards in the concentration camps were correct in what they were doing because the people they were killing and brutalizing were not doing as they were told in yeilding to total authority and dommination. I'm not talking about the Holocaust I'm reffering to all the people that were treated in this way because they opposed the system.

WAKE UP SLEEPY HEAD these "Officers" were abusing their power, let them do it once and get away with it they will do it all the more. You live in a DEMOCRACY people are allowed to question Authority in a Democracy, if they dont then you have a dictatorship, do you understand that concept. If you want to live in a dictatorship then go and live in one, because if you do not stop this you will be living in one. But then again you may be one of the many willing servants who wish to serve their master in subjugating the free, which is it.