Jesus DID say he was God

who's being ignorant?

i'm looking at biased, uninformed (ie, calling HOMER an author) sources and calling them BS

wow, so they had one slip up, it doesnt change the fact that the new testament has the most historical copies of any books.

i'm seeing a lack of evidence (ie contemporary accounts) of a man's existence and saying that i'm 90% sure he didn't

Read the New Testament, there's the proof he exists.

let's see, hitler changed the face of the world...
not in a good way, but he did

Lets see, how many people do you think would give their life for Hitler 2000 years form now.
I know millions who would give their life up for Christ. and that is 2000 years after the fact.
No One can take Christs Glory away. EVER!!
Praise the King of Kings!!!

and you're writing as if the new testament is 1 book
when it is actually 27 seperate books
and the first 4 of them give differing accounts of the life of the same man

Do you think i'm that foolish enough to not know the new testament is a collection of Books. Please.


I'm done arguing with you about the existence of Christ, i KNOW he exists,
if you don't thats your problem.





[edit on 7-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by thehumbleone

i'm seeing a lack of evidence (ie contemporary accounts) of a man's existence and saying that i'm 90% sure he didn't

Read the New Testament, theres the proof he exists

i said CONTEMPORARY

by that logic i am the contemporary of FDR, but i was born well after he died

the new testament isn't proof, it's writing that was written in the LATE 1st century CE
that means from 75-100 CE
jesus supposedly died in 30 CE
a 45 year gap doesn't count as contemporary

I'm done arguing with you about the existence of Christ, i KNOW he exists,
if you don't thats your problem.

it's not so much as a problem, it's a difference of opinion

Here is a prophecy from Jesus that has stayed true all these thousands of years and will stay true forever:

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will
never pass away." Mark 13:31

i said CONTEMPORARY

by that logic i am the contemporary of FDR, but i was born well after he died

the new testament isn't proof, it's writing that was written in the LATE 1st century CE
that means from 75-100 CE
jesus supposedly died in 30 CE
a 45 year gap doesn't count as contemporary

What difference would it make if the Gospels were claimed to be written while he was alive?

Would that somehow make you believe. if you don't believe it now why would you believe it if it was written while he was alive?

Like i said, some people will not believe no matter what.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

HAHAHAHAHA.

R u for real? Where is the proof? Give me one.

Do you really think that the son of God jesus is not man made story. Do you really think that christianity is the one true religion and all others are false. hahahahhaah

I'm sorry to tell you man, but as far as history is concerned there was a man known as Jesus Christ. He is recorded in thousands of Historical documents.

you can try to say he didn't exist all you want, but there is historical documentation of his existence.

even if he didn't exist as you say, he still does exist, get it?

Originally posted by thehumbleone

i said CONTEMPORARY

by that logic i am the contemporary of FDR, but i was born well after he died

the new testament isn't proof, it's writing that was written in the LATE 1st century CE
that means from 75-100 CE
jesus supposedly died in 30 CE
a 45 year gap doesn't count as contemporary

What difference would it make if the Gospels were claimed to be written while he was alive?

Would that somehow make you believe. if you don't believe it now why would you believe it if it was written while he was alive?

Like i said, some people will not believe no matter what.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

i wouldn't be a christian

but if there was evidence that the gospels were written during the life of jesus, i'd at least view jesus as a historical figure

i wouldn't be a christian

but if there was evidence that the gospels were written during the life of jesus, i'd at least view jesus as a historical figure

This applies for you too:

I'm sorry to tell you man, but as far as history is concerned there was a man known as Jesus Christ. He is recorded in thousands of Historical documents.

you can try to say he didn't exist all you want, but there is historical documentation of his existence.

even if he didn't exist as you say, he still does exist, get it?

[edit on 7-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

i wouldn't be a christian

but if there was evidence that the gospels were written during the life of jesus, i'd at least view jesus as a historical figure

Using your logic, lets say 2000 years from now there is no evidence you ever existed, no pictures no videos, Nothing.

Does that somehow mean you didn't exist? Of course not.

How much more Jesus exists because there is documentation of his existence.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by thehumbleone

i wouldn't be a christian

but if there was evidence that the gospels were written during the life of jesus, i'd at least view jesus as a historical figure

Using your logic, lets say 2000 years from now there is no evidence you ever existed, no pictures no videos, Nothing.

Does that somehow mean you didn't exist? Of course not.

How much more Jesus exists because there is documentation of his existence.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

first of all, i doubt that anyone will be arguing for or against my existence

secondly, i'm not making the claim that i am god manifest on earth

thirdly, yes, for historical purposes i never existed
also, you quoted this

I'm sorry to tell you man, but as far as history is concerned there was a man known as Jesus Christ. He is recorded in thousands of Historical documents.

you can try to say he didn't exist all you want, but there is historical documentation of his existence.

even if he didn't exist as you say, he still does exist, get it?

where are these THOUSANDS of historical documents?

does this count the bible?

and how many of them are contemporary?

Originally posted by Gear
Sorry to be the one to tell you this but...

The Epistle of John wasn't added to the Bible until the King James version, and that was in the 1600's.

...

Originally posted by Gear

Originally posted by dbates

*ahem*
You might want to read this....

Yeah, I remember reading somewhere about it not existing until it suddenly 'manifested' itself into the King James version. Until I find a source I will take your word on it.

It took a while, but I found it. I was not 100% right, nor was I 100% wrong.
1 John 5:7-8 was not added to the bible until the King James version.

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

One of the most controversial verses of the Bible is an explicit reference to the Trinity, the Comma Johanneum, (1 John 5:7-8). They do not appear in any version of the text prior to the sixteenth century, but do appear in the King James Bible

en.wikipedia.org...

first of all, i doubt that anyone will be arguing for or against my existence

This is true, no one will give a crap whether you lived or not.
Most people don't argue about whether or not he existed because it is only self evident he did. only a few foolish people question his existence.

secondly, i'm not making the claim that i am god manifest on earth

Where the hell did you get this from, i never said you did.

Like i said you can choose not to believe if you want. i don't need to argue about this anymore, this post is about whether or not Jesus said he was God. I don't need to waste my time arguing with Godless people. The life of Jesus was historically documented and that is that.

Here is one last link for you madness:

www.gotquestions.org...

Go on being ignorant, you'll get your proof when you die.





[edit on 7-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

[edit on 8-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

Let me break this down for all of you. Jesus NEVER existed. He was created by the rulers of ancient time to control the population with a mind control device called 'Religion'.

Pick up any eastern religion at random and compare the similarities to Jesus and their dieties or holy men. Its the same story told over and over again using different names. Same virgin birth, crucifixion, resurrection, etc.

If any one is interested. Jesus and all other religious holy men did not exist. They were just symbolic and people took them literally to be actual humans or 'Gods'.
Roman catholic church knows the true origin of christianity. They know jesus never existed. It was a religion created to control the masses. But only few, in the higher powers know the secret and they control the world.

Lot of scholars and philosophers were around in the time of Jesus. No one ever wrote about him. Never mention the crucifixion, conquering of Jerusalem, etc. No mention of Jesus in the works of scholars and writers, even though they lived arnd the area and at the very same time Jesus is believed to have existed.

But watever, you can believe in the fairytales blindly. Jesus is as real as Santa Claus.

[edit on 8-11-2006 by half_minded]

www.gotquestions.org...

Nope. No Jesus. Im pretty sure.

Man-made/'alien' made fairytales.

Jesus did not exist.

What a load of *cough*.

half minded, there is nothing you could say that would make me lose my faith, why even try.

For the last time, THIS POST IS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT JESUS SAID HE WAS GOD

Why dont you make your own post that jesus didn't exist instead of ruining mine.

May God have mercy on you and take the scales off your eyes.

taken from:
www.gotquestions.org...

"Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?"


Answer: Typically when this question is asked, the person asking qualifies the question with "outside of the Bible." We do not grant this idea that the Bible cannot be considered a source of evidence for the existence of Jesus. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels in the second century A.D., 100+ years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which we strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.

It is also important to recognize that in 70 A.D., the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground! We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eye-witnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.

Considering the fact that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant backwater area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:

The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious "Christians " ("named after Christus" which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44 ).

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats. . . . He was [the] Christ . . . he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him." One version reads, "At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).

Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover, and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.



Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of his followers.



Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.



In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed - worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).



In conclusion, there is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and Biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the 12 apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

[edit on 8-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

Nope. No Jesus. Im pretty sure.

Man-made/'alien' made fairytales.

Jesus did not exist.

What a load of *cough*.

You're a joke man, all you're doing is making up things without any proof to back up your claims.

HAHAHAHA. Ok Mr Holy man.

P.S. Neither God or Jesus exist/existed.

Originally posted by thehumbleone

first of all, i doubt that anyone will be arguing for or against my existence

This is true, no one will give a crap whether you lived or not.
Most people don't argue about whether or not he existed because it is only self evident he did. only a few foolish people question his existence.

secondly, i'm not making the claim that i am god manifest on earth

Where the hell did you get this from, i never said you did.

Like i said you can choose not to believe if you want. i don't need to argue about this anymore, this post is about whether or not Jesus said he was God. I don't need to waste my time arguing with Godless people. The life of Jesus was historically documented and that is that.

Here is one last link for you madness:

www.gotquestions.org...

Go on being ignorant, you'll get your proof when you die.





[edit on 7-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

[edit on 8-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

please, keep the personal attacks away, they make you look like a person with a weak argument resorting to shameful tactics

secondly, i'm not the one being ignorant here, i'm being quite open minded. i'm just not being so open-minded that my brain falls out. you just keep giving similar sites, all of which recycle the same arguments and documents, without referencing any primary research source material

as for me saying "i'm not claiming to be god manifest on earth" thing, i'll clarify, i am referencing the supposed man you call jesus christ

also, as you said this post is about whether or not jesus said he was god or not

now, to prove that you need to provide
1: proof said man existed
2: direct quotation of the man making the claim

all quotation of jesus is at least 1 generation after his death
that means it is secondary quotation

please, keep the personal attacks away, they make you look like a person with a weak argument resorting to shameful tactics

Right, sorry about that, i was in a really bad mood that day.