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Jesus DID say he was God

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posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 02:42 AM
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I've been reading a lot of posts here on ATS with people saying that Jesus never said he was God, this is a buch of BS. There are many verses where Jesus made reference to this, john 14:5-11 says,

"thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going; so how can we know the way to get there?" Jesus answered him, " I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one goes to the father except by me. Now that you have known me," he said to them " you will know my father also, and from now on you do know him and you have seen him." Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the father; that is all we need." Jesus answered, " for a long time i have been with you all; yet you do not know me philip? whoever has seen me has seen the father. why, then, do you say, 'show us the father'? do you not believe, philip, that i am in the father and the father is in me? the words that i have spoken to you," jesus said to his disciples, " do not come from me. the father, who remains in me, does his own work."

The fact that Jesus also claimed to forgive sins would be foolish if he was only a man. Even Sigmund Feud recognized this when he said in a letter to Oskar Pfister
" And now, just suppose I said to a patient: 'I, Professor Sigmund Freud, forgive thee of thy sins.' What a fool i should make of myself."

i got some of the above info on freud fom "The Question of God" by
Dr. Armand M Nicholo, Jr.

This is quoted from the above book

"Lewis (C.S. Lewis) began to realize that this person made unique claims about himself- claims that if true ruled out the possibility of his being a great moral teacher. first, lewis points out that jesus made the "appalling claim" to be the messiah, to be God. He quotes Jesus Christ saying, " I am begotten of the one God, before Abraham was, I am"; Lewis continued:"... and remember that the words 'I am' were in Hebrew. they were the name of God, which must not be spoken by any human being, the name which it was death to utter." As a philologist, lewis focuses on passages in the new testament that refer to christ as" begotten, not created" and " only begotten son." Lewis explained that "to beget is to become the father of: to create is to make... What God Begets is God; just as what man begets is man. what God creates is not God;just as what man makes is not man. that is why men are not the sons of god in the sense that Christ is."




[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]




posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 02:55 AM
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Sorry to be the one to tell you this but...

The Epistle of John wasn't added to the Bible until the King James version, and that was in the 1600's.




posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 08:46 AM
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Jesus was not God more so than anyone else is, geneticly.

If God's essence is in all living things then yes the Father was inside of him, but the Father is also inside all of us, and we are all equal in regard to the amount of essence in each of us.

In the Qu'ran, theres an entire story about Jesus, they call him Isa. The virgin birth, everything up to the crucifixion. They think God took Jesus up to heaven before the Romans could kill him, and that the Romans were killing someone else on the cross. I could be misinterpreting that, but its something like "it was made to look as though he was crucified, but he wasnt", maybe he was on the cross but not held up until actual death, just until unconciousness? That might be what they think. All I know is that they dont think he died on the cross, they being Muslims.

Another Islamic viewpoint: They say when the end of the world draws near, that Jesus will return to Earth to battle the evil forces and gather the flock, except that when he did, he'd be Muslim and encourage Christians to convert to Islam. The Qu'ran or Hadith's (ammendments) also state that he will break the cross or crucifix when he returns. He and an even more prominent figure named the Mahdi, the 12 Imam(or is that 13th?), will join up to rally the good forces against the evil ones.

I dont necessarily believe or support this view. But to support the view with literature, in Revelation it states that when Jesus returns to Earth, he will have a new name that even he does not know until the day cometh(Holman Christian Standard Version). This backs the previous Islamic beliefs up and makes them possible! This also makes Jesus appear as a seperate entity to the Creator God, the One God, and not the same being. Didn't Lucifer state he was equal to God, then even claimed to be above God? Remember all that "God is a jealous God.." stuff in the Old Testament? It's true. And Yeshua(Jesus) will not be damned during judgement for Idolatry; Catholics will. Because they Idolize the Cross and the Crucifix, and his dead flesh attached to the Crucifix, they Idolize it. When they pray, they pray to Jesus, or in his name. Jesus becomes more import, and more talked about by far, than the Creator God. This is obviously wrong if you remember the teachings of the Old Testament, and something is terribly wrong here. I think it's fake Christianity which is actually Idolatry, or rather that some large groups of people are being misguided religiously.

But I also think this about alot of the Islamic views, like Meteor Worship. They all face to the Kabba in Mecca to pray 5 times a day. Theres a piece of a meteorite embdedded in the Kabba. Is this not worshipping an Idol as well? And their spread through violence-make everyone else 2nd class citizens til they convert or die-world domination in the name of allah just bothers me to the core, the fundamentalists and conservatives who speak largely for a small majority it seems.. in the Muslim world.

So we're all screwed. Everyone is the bad guy, Denominations and Sects are works of Satan, just pray to God by yourself, alone, in your special place.

Peace be unto you.

[edit on 11/3/2006 by runetang]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 11:11 AM
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John 3:16


"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Sonthat whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."



John 1:18


John 1:18- "No one has ever seen God, but God, the "One and Only", who is at the Father's side has made him known."


Hebrews:1:3




"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."



John 1:18 quite clearly states that no man has seen God,only the one who sits beside him. Jesus is the son of God,not God. It's really not difficult to understand.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Gear
Sorry to be the one to tell you this but...

The Epistle of John wasn't added to the Bible until the King James version, and that was in the 1600's.


*ahem*
You might want to read this.



An insistence upon there being a canon of canonical four, and no others, was a central theme of Irenaeus of Lyons, c. 185.

"it is not possible that there can be either more or fewer than four" (gospels)


And just in case that wasn't enough discussion on the Gospel of John...



By the turn of the 5th century, the Catholic Church in the west, under Pope Innocent I, recognized a biblical canon including the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which was previously established at a number of regional Synods, namely the Council of Rome (382), the Synod of Hippo (393), and two Synods of Carthage (397 and 419).


I believe that the Gospel of John was recognized as being part of the Biblical Canon from the very first time a Biblical Canon was discussed. It's one of the most trusted books in the Bible.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 01:14 PM
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Sorry to be the one to tell you this but...

The Epistle of John wasn't added to the Bible until the King James version, and that was in the 1600's.



Gear, what the heck are you talking about, read what dbates said about the gospel of John, Quit posting lies man.


[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 01:19 PM
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John 1:18 quite clearly states that no man has seen God,only the one who sits beside him. Jesus is the son of God,not God. It's really not difficult to understand.



Originally posted by runetang
Jesus was not God more so than anyone else is, geneticly.

If God's essence is in all living things then yes the Father was inside of him, but the Father is also inside all of us, and we are all equal in regard to the amount of essence in each of us.


the gopel of john also states that the world was made through christ, who is the visible image of the invisible god. did you guys not even bother to read the arguement that i posted of C.S. Lewis here? you realize that Jesus also said before abraham was I Am. Here is what Lewis said once again:



Taken fom "The Question of God" by
Dr. Armand M Nicholo, Jr.


"Lewis (C.S. Lewis) began to realize that this person made unique claims about himself- claims that if true ruled out the possibility of his being a great moral teacher. first, lewis points out that jesus made the "appalling claim" to be the messiah, to be God. He quotes Jesus Christ saying, " I am begotten of the one God, before Abraham was, I am"; Lewis continued:"... and remember that the words 'I am' were in Hebrew. they were the name of God, which must not be spoken by any human being, the name which it was death to utter." As a philologist, lewis focuses on passages in the new testament that refer to christ as" begotten, not created" and " only begotten son." Lewis explained that "to beget is to become the father of: to create is to make... What God Begets is God; just as what man begets is man. what God creates is not God;just as what man makes is not man. that is why men are not the sons of god in the sense that Christ is."




Here is Sugmund Freuds reasoning once again:
Even Sigmund Feud recognized this (Christ Forgiving sins) when he said in a letter to Oskar Pfister
" And now, just suppose I said to a patient: 'I, Professor Sigmund Freud, forgive thee of thy sins.' What a fool i should make of myself."






[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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Yehoshua was not and is not what is considered the universal or almighty driving force behind everything that most people refer to when saying god. Not god, but definately an enlightened being. Imagine if somebody here today came here with spiritual knowledge beyond our comprehension, they would most certainly be considered by many to be a god. Take that back to 2000 years ago whenever there was very limited technology compared to what we have today, of course anyone possing knowledge beyond anything imaginable would have been considered god.

Yehoshua was not out to create a new religion, but after the crucifiction incident (which only happened because Yehoshua was threatining the romans power, was going against what was being taught to many, not to mention the fact that every other "religious leader" was so jealous of what Yehoshua had accomplished that who knows how many people wanted him dead) people went into this frenzy of let's start a new religion after him. As far as the christian bible goes, that was pieced together by many men over the centuries; putting in what fit their agenda and omitting anything that would truly empower or enlighten the people.

It wasn't too terribly long ago that the church was running the everything in their part of the world. There was a time that anybody who went against their word died (fascism anybody?), people were burnt at the stake, other's were raped and pillaged, and all in the name of christ.

Why is it that everyone has to think that their way is the only one true way to salvation? The only true way is love. The love that's there is for us always takes care of us no matter what we believe, no matter who we are. Why is it that humans are so egotistical that anything that doesn't coencide with their beliefs is wrong? This is why we need to rid the world of religion (and no not become atheists or sataists, because those are both religions).

We are capable of truly great things, yet everyone chooses to shut true love out of their hearts and say "We are holier than you, because we worshipp _____." Open your eyes people, the time is drawing near when all will be revealed, and opression shall be no more.

It doesn't matter what you believe in, only hold love in your hearts. Love for your fellow human, love for nature, love for life and creation. I'm not going to stick around and argue with everyone here who either doesn't understand what i'm saying or doesn't believe in it, so if anybody has any serious questions or remarks you can u2u me and i'll be more that glad to reply.

You can listen to what i've said or you can ignore it, but one day you will remember it, one day you will understand. We all have our own paths to follow so good luck on your journey, and always remember that when you fill your heart with love there is no room for fear or hatred.

Peace and love be with all that read this

Pancho



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by dbates

*ahem*
You might want to read this....

Yeah, I remember reading somewhere about it not existing until it suddenly 'manifested' itself into the King James version. Until I find a source I will take your word on it.




posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 06:00 PM
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Humbleone, do I need to quote verses from other books in the bible that refer to Jesus as the son, not the father?

Let me ask you a question that none of the Jesus is God proponents can seem to answer. If Jesus is God, why did he pray to the father? Is Jesus both father and son? It doesn't make sense that Jesus would pray to himself? Now does it?

I am sorry, but I accept Jesus as the son and savior, but he is not God.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 08:27 PM
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Let me ask you a question that none of the Jesus is God proponents can seem to answer. If Jesus is God, why did he pray to the father? Is Jesus both father and son? It doesn't make sense that Jesus would pray to himself? Now does it?

I am sorry, but I accept Jesus as the son and savior, but he is not God.



SpeakerofTruth, i will answer your question if you can answer mine. It is the same question that the pharisees asked about Jesus when he forgave people of their sins , who can forgive sins but God alone?


Humbleone, do I need to quote verses from other books in the bible that refer to Jesus as the son, not the father?


Hmmm? that's funny, i don't recall myself ever saying that jesus is the father.



[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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hey good thread, just discovered I share something with jesus, we both claim to be god



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Yehoshua was not out to create a new religion, but after the crucifiction incident (which only happened because Yehoshua was threatining the romans power, was going against what was being taught to many, not to mention the fact that every other "religious leader" was so jealous of what Yehoshua had accomplished that who knows how many people wanted him dead) people went into this frenzy of let's start a new religion after him. As far as the christian bible goes, that was pieced together by many men over the centuries; putting in what fit their agenda and omitting anything that would truly empower or enlighten the people.


I'm Sorry to tell you Pancho, but the gospel of John quite clearly states that Christ was crucified for his "blasphemy" of claiming to be god. As far as history is concerned, this is the best explanation we have for why Christ was crucified.

Your little theory that the Christ was threatening the romans power is just that, a theory.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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hey good thread, just discovered I share something with jesus, we both claim to be god


Do you see that, even zeratul recognizes that christ claimed this.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 08:52 PM
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Man, i can't believe how so many people try to deny the fact that christ claimed to be god, i mean, the truth is right before your eyes.

the man claimed to forgive sins, he said he is the ressurection and life, he claims he is gonna judge us all at the end of the age, he perfomed miracles only God could do, he said he is "I AM".


The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)



Come on people, how much more proof do you want.


I'll tell you what, the ignorance on this site makes me sick man.


[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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John 10:30-33


"I and the Father are one."

Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."



John 13:12-14


When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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Kinglizard, thank you for putting up those biblical verses.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 09:32 PM
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SpeakerofTruth, i am having a hard time trying to understand what you believe,
you post verses out of the gospel of John that fit what you want to believe and seem to ignore all the other stuff.

Have you ever read the beginning of John where it say that christ created the world?

Hmmm, thats funny, i thought the book of genesis said god created it.

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

Judgeing by the other posts you've written you seem to want to make Jesus into some New Age feel good teacher and completely deny his true identity.

I'm not even sure you know what you believe.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 09:36 PM
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You may want to read/research the term "Holy Trinity".... Here is a basic outline.

www.everystudent.com...

I don't believe Jesus is the only part as I believe in God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit....yet there is only one. Confusing I know....



[edit on 3-11-2006 by kinglizard]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
SpeakerofTruth, i am having a hard time trying to understand what you believe,
you post verses out of the gospel of John that fit what you want to believe and seem to ignore all the other stuff.

And isn't that exactly what your doing?




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