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non-believers: youre outnumbered, and here is your proof

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posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:02 PM
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I don't think this poll illustrates what I think more of what your point was.

"Nonbelievers" on ATS doesn't mean, in my opinion, that we don't think life exists elsewhere in the galaxy.

Quite the contrary, I would be shocked to discover that life DIDN'T exist elsewhere.

But as a nonbeliever, I don't hold to the idea that there are UFOs piloted by extraterrestrial intelligences. UFOs, in my years of reading and watching so called videos, are nothing more than real natural phenomenon, hoaxes, camera glitches, identifiable aircraft of some form -- or perhaps in the extreme case, governmental projects.




posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:11 PM
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YOu people are SERIOUSLY missing the point. The title is not misleading. This isnt about ET craft FACTUALLY existing.

This is thread is about the fact that something so "silly" as ET life is a more accepted POSSIBILITY, than say...............even 20 years ago! And that many unaccepted theories such as the now cliche "flat earth" comparison was argued down to the last breath of skeptics, because of the fear that theyre "stable" reality was going vastly change. It just didnt make sense!!!


EARTH......ROUND? Thats proposterous!!!!!!!!! Look at the horizen its clearly FLAT!! You'll fall off the edge if you sail out far enough!!!

Beings....Traveling across deep space to visit us?? Thats proposterous!!!!!!!!! The nearest star is light years away!!!

Im not saying fact............. just possible.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:11 PM
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The problem for many people is the use of the term "Believer" to describe people making cases for "Aliens" and or "Alien contact".

Many people making these pro-Alien arguments accept this term and even tend to wear it as a "Badge of Honor". In fact there are plenty of people who truly do have "Faith" in "Aliens" and act as if this is a religion for them.

Where people get confused is by also accepting this term for those who make cases for UFOs and the UFO phenomena. Here there is plenty of evidence that supports the UFO phenomena and no "Faith" is required. But again many people are willing to accept this term and some wear it as a "Badge of Honor".

Just think how many times you've seen someone ask, "Do you believe in UFOs?" Here this common question wrongly implies that "Faith" or "Belief" is required to accept the existence of the UFO phenomena , when clearly the UFO phenomena exists as Unidentified Flying Objects are reported Globally every year.

So basically over the years everyone who would make a Pro case for a UFO event or the UFO phenomena in general all the way across the spectrum to the most "Faithful Religious Contactee" gets inappropriately labeled as the "Believers".

Conversely everyone on the other side of the fence gets inappropriately labeled as the "Skeptics". ( In reality anyone can be "skeptical" and often researchers of the UFO phenomena are very skeptical of UFO cases.)

By labeling everyone interested in ,and or making a pro-argument for, the UFO phenomena as a "Believer" you've implied that they have "Faith" or require "Faith" and that simply is incorrect. It's even worse when people that are in the Pro-UFO camp call themselves "Believers" and that happens often.

I've seen people say things like , " The evidence convinced me that UFOs are real that is why I am a "Believer". Where being convinced by evidence requires no "Faith" or "Belief".



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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A time will come when everyone believes in aliens (Intelligent life on other planets). Just like at one time people believed the world was flat and that the sun revolved arround the earth.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:29 PM
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A little food for thought.....

Do you people believe, assuming humanity doesnt destroy itself first, that we as a race will remain confined to the immediate vicinity of our planet. That our knowledge of physics are limited to what we have now? That we will never discover other means of travel beyond what we have now?



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Beyonddeath
ET and ANGELS......APPLES and ORANGES.


Apples and oranges are both fruit.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Beyonddeath
You know what, this is a bit petty? The numbers are obviously STILL STAGGERING. This is exactly what Id expect from a "debunker". This shows the extent you would go JUST TO WIN AN ARGUMENT. Fine, youre not outnumbered, is that what you want to hear? but again those numbers are hard to ignore, unless of course you are a debunker.

Maybe you missed my last line:


...from believing that there is inteligent life out there to aliens visiting us...is a long way....

The title of the thread suggests that you have proof that those who don't believe that we are visited by aliens are getting fewer and fewer. The survey, however, states that around half of the americans (but still, under 50%) believe that there might by inteligent alien life out there, capable of space travel. But there was no question about UFOs as alien spacecrafts. Heck...we too are capable of space travel!!
It has nothig to do with debuncking something.
A few posts earlier you bolded the statistics 7 out of 10.... Yes...7 out of 10 of those 6 out of 10 americans that believe in life out there. The numbers are impressive...but not that impressive. 70% sounds better than 42%...doesn't it?
I too believe there's life elsewhere...and I believe that science is not limited... So what? Is this evidence that aliens are working with the us goverment? Or that aliens abduct humans for some kind of experiments?



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 01:18 PM
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deny says:

""looks like'' that is your extrapolation or your fantasizing about the topic and you are presenting yourself here as the realist?"

You're the one who said:

"...a minority of spooks, agents and insiders that have propped up the facade for decades that alien life and intelligence does not exist. But are these people stupid or just plain selfish is the real question?"

Again, it's your call; if you continue to imply that the only people left are those who -- like me -- are stupid and/or selfish, no one is going to poke you in the eye or steal your dog or let the air out of your tires.

But I doubt if that kind of comment is going to convince anyone that your assertions are valid!



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 01:25 PM
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Life is not just 'out there' - our galaxy, indeed all galaxies, in fact are teeming with life.

The Shaman waxes a bit philisophical at times, but is basically right on the money (BTW - same goes for his comments on John's moon picks) -

"Belief" and truths are often confused - the corrolary is not necessarily: "Proof". And we (laymen) have yet to see "The Proof". Evidence is aplenty, proof is as yet forthcoming (we hope).

Nice thread, though. Thought provoking - inquisitive. Thanks...



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 01:34 PM
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While it is interesting to hear that a major percentage of people believe in UFOs and such it's not surprising at all. If you instigate a conversation and steer it to the subject of UFOs many people will at the very least say, "there's something to it but I don't know what." So no surprise there.

What is pertinent is what each individual carries around in their own sphere of knowledge and logical beliefs. This is not to say one should jump into believing any consipatorical theory. When given an inch many people will leap to a mile conclusively manufacturing completely unwarranted conclusions beyond the basis of logic. Lets be open minded but reserved all the same.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 01:50 PM
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..............

[edit on 13-10-2006 by Beyonddeath]



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Beyonddeath
ET and ANGELS......APPLES and ORANGES.


Apples and oranges are both fruit.


Bravo...brilliant response!!



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Cruizer
While it is interesting to hear that a major percentage of people believe in UFOs and such it's not surprising at all. If you instigate a conversation and steer it to the subject of UFOs many people will at the very least say, "there's something to it but I don't know what." So no surprise there.

What is pertinent is what each individual carries around in their own sphere of knowledge and logical beliefs. This is not to say one should jump into believing any consipatorical theory. When given an inch many people will leap to a mile conclusively manufacturing completely unwarranted conclusions beyond the basis of logic. Lets be open minded but reserved all the same.



This I can respect. I agree wholeheartedly with you, my friend. However, knowone will ever be able to relive what I witnessed in 1998. Thats a whole other topic. What I experienced was just beyond what one would call paranormal, thus opening my mind a bit more to "otherworldy possibilities".



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 02:41 PM
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I think SOME of you ARE missing the point beyonddeath is trying to make.

Whether little green men, or malicious balls of gas and energy are real... more people in the united states are starting to accept the possibility. And you know what this says to me? it doesnt have to be a survey about alien life at all. It could be about something completely different. The point is more and more people are starting to have an open mind about ideas that are "out there". Ideas that contradict popular religious belief at that.

Its a vast difference then the world of religious ignorance we all lived in say... even 50 years ago. People lived their whole lives by guidelines from a book, never questioning any of it.

People are starting to think, its a good sign.


Also, I think this shows that people are starting to get to the point where they COULD handle some sort of alien disclosure if it was given to them.

Take that survery again in 10 years and I predict a vast difference in results.


Its a good post beyonddeath


[edit on 13-10-2006 by CavemanDD]



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 03:16 PM
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Maybe you missed my last line:

...from believing that there is inteligent life out there to aliens visiting us...is a long way....


explain this logic, because I see absolutly no logic here. Why do you assume this? I suppose after the "big bang". Everything in the universe evolved simultaneously, right? That there may indeed be intelligent life somewhere on the other side of the universe but they too must be confined only to there planet and moon, and arguing about ET life somewhere "out there", on message board similar to ATS.

I too believe there's life elsewhere...and I believe that science is not limited... So what? Is this evidence that aliens are working with the us goverment? Or that aliens abduct humans for some kind of experiments?


Im not some kook that subscribes to every conspiracy theory BUT Id like to know why you think that this is SO IMPOSSIBLE. Is it because nothing the governmet/extraterrestrials do could ever get passed your superior intelligence? Or perhaps its that the govts. of this planet could never harm their citizens
Now I know your answer may just be, "it would be rediculous to go around filling your mind with all these, maybes and what ifs, youd go crazy". If thats your answer than why are you even posting on ATS?



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Again, it's your call; if you continue to imply that the only people left are those who -- like me -- are stupid and/or selfish, no one is going to poke you in the eye or steal your dog or let the air out of your tires.

But I doubt if that kind of comment is going to convince anyone that your assertions are valid!


In the case of Aliens and UFO's if you do not believe then you are an insider or an agent of the darkside.. so are you?

If you say no to either of those questions then either you have no first hand experience with the subject.. which is ignorance or you refuse to accept the evidence that most people are willing to accept which implies truth.

Since little is 100% true (query philosophy if you don't understand what I mean), and considering that then I believe it reasonable that anyone's stedfast unwillingness to accept a highly probable truth indicates a mental block with that person.

Remember we are talking about beliefs here and NOT absolutes.



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Beyonddeath
This survey appears on the national geographic website. Credible source dont you think? Looks like more americans belive in the "boogeyman" known as ET than not
In my humble opinion, this is due not only to the countless sightings by people all around the world, but to the advancement of technology at such an uncanny rate and many other factors. I think people are finally waking up. NOT ONLY to the idea that we are being visited but to that fact that humanity is multiplying at a high rate thus more minds to make brilliant discoveries and breakthroughs, hell I wouldnt be surprized if we are already visiting other plantes "behind the scenes" Now I doubt a survey about chupacabra or unicorns would yeild similar results.....enjjoy,


EDIT: ive somehow contained my words in his quote ??? dont know how to undo it


It says a vast majority of people believe there is life somewhere out there on other planets.... Not that people believe we're being visited... or aliens are responsible for our advanced technology..... I believe there is life out there in some form or another but reptilian aliens.... praying mantis aliens... that i find harder to believe..... just my opinion...

[edit on 14-10-2006 by iCEdTenG]



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 01:21 AM
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People should be allowed to believe what they like, after all it is a lot to accept from down here if you have never witnessed anything.
But on the other hand it is quite naive to think that there can't be any other life forms out there, highly advanced or not.
Look what man has achieved in the last 150 years.
One quote I read said that if the history of the Earth was wrote down using the bible for size example man would not be mentioned until halfway down the last page.
Most scientist agree the Earth is approx 4.5 billion years old and the known universe is between 13-14 billion years old.
To me that means that other solar systems could have at least 5 billion years head start, and who knows what other exotic elements could be out there.

Just my 2 bob.
spyke



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by Beyonddeath
explain this logic, because I see absolutly no logic here. Why do you assume this? I suppose after the "big bang". Everything in the universe evolved simultaneously, right? That there may indeed be intelligent life somewhere on the other side of the universe but they too must be confined only to there planet and moon, and arguing about ET life somewhere "out there", on message board similar to ATS.

Oh man... the survey you posted doesn't say a thing about that!!! You said that those who don't believe in aliens visiting us (at least this is what I can make from "non-believers") are getting fewer and presented that survey as a proof. But the fact is that the survey says nothing about that! There were no questions like "Do you believe that UFO and aliens are connected?" or "Do you believe that the US government is working with alines?". The survey simply outlined that about half of the americans believe that there is inteligent life out there. Period.
So sorry, it is a long way from believing that might be life out there to aliens visiting us, since this survey says nothing at all about that!



Im not some kook that subscribes to every conspiracy theory BUT Id like to know why you think that this is SO IMPOSSIBLE. Is it because nothing the governmet/extraterrestrials do could ever get passed your superior intelligence? Or perhaps its that the govts. of this planet could never harm their citizens
Now I know your answer may just be, "it would be rediculous to go around filling your mind with all these, maybes and what ifs, youd go crazy". If thats your answer than why are you even posting on ATS?


Again...I never said it was impossible...I just said that believing that life can exist out there and that science is not limited are hardly proofs for aliens visiting us!!! Isn't this clear enough?



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by Apass

Originally posted by Beyonddeath
Looks like more americans belive in the "boogeyman" known as ET than not



Does life exist on other planets?

* 60% of Americans believe life exists on other planets
For those that do believe that life exists on other planets, what would ET
be like?



Now lets do the math:



* 7 out of 10 Americans think the intelligent life forms on other planets
would be similar to humans

So this means 70% of the 60% of americans who believe on life out there....that is 0.7*0.6*100 = 42% of americans


Does it say 7 out of 10 americans believers? If not your math is all wrong. Because it seems your twisting the math to fit your point of view. Seriously



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