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LaHaye's "Rapture" Ideology Was Not Even Considered Until 1830

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posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 07:31 PM
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Right, I need Yaweh, God, Muhammad (your gods 3 personalities) to tell me what is wrong and what is right.




posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
No Vall sorry, any church within the Christian religion is an offspring of The Church. Go into a Baptist church and everything is Roman Catholic in nature aside from a few things they decided not to follow any more, a few extras they decided to follow and they yell alot.


Read a book. That's your only hope, because you're too far from the facts to be helped by a mere handful of people. You need intensive study...it's the only hope.



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
That is totally uncalled for. It is rude. It is a misrepresentation. It is an insult. All things that a supposed christian shouldn't be doing. I hope you don't go around saying that you are a saved Christian Sun Matrix. You aren't acting like a disciple of Christ.

Sun Matrix ..

1 - You have just lost all crediblity with me. Not that you care, but your anti-Catholic post, full of error and anti-Christian behaviors, just destroyed your credibility.

2 - You are so off the topic that it isn't even funny. Your erroneous anti-Catholic notions have nothing to do with LaHeye and the Left Behind series - which is the topic of this thread. Then again - LaHeye is notoriously anti-Catholic and is pushing his anti-Catholic agenda in the books (subtle indoctrination into erroneous beliefs about Catholics). Guess you two have that in common eh? Erroneous anti-catholic beliefs and pushing anticatholicism based on those beliefs.




I believe if you look above you will find the Rockpuck was the one doing the attacking and straying from the topic.

I believe if you check the facts you will find I am correct. There is an obelisk in the Vatican court yard. It is in honor of the sun god Baal. The Pope wears the cross of Baal on his vestments. These are facts. I would rather know the facts and the truth than play games.

Just so you know, it hurts me to see so many people that follow the church of Constantine the Pontifus Maximus of Sol Invictus. They set the birthday of Jesus on Dec.25th to honor the birthday of Baal. The moved the resurection of Jesus to honor the goddess Ishtar who is Semiramis. They honored Nimrod from 496 AD until 1969 as St. Valentine. These are facts.

I could go on and on about the Sacraments, the rosary, the crusades, church history. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I understand this has made you very mad.....I was in your very shoes once but am happy someone challenged me to seek the truth.........have I said anything that is not the truth? If I have then attack me. If not then seek the truth.



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Rockpuck
No Vall sorry, any church within the Christian religion is an offspring of The Church. Go into a Baptist church and everything is Roman Catholic in nature aside from a few things they decided not to follow any more, a few extras they decided to follow and they yell alot.


Read a book. That's your only hope, because you're too far from the facts to be helped by a mere handful of people. You need intensive study...it's the only hope.


MM A biased baptist book perhaps right?


The only hope..



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck


MM A biased baptist book perhaps right?


The only hope..


I've never actually seen them produce any "baptist book", but you could ask them if they have one you could "check out".

www.orthodoxphotos.com...

www.orthodoxinfo.com...



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
have I said anything that is not the truth? If I have then attack me.


Paraphrased -

You said that Rockpuck wasn't bright enough to know what an oblisk is. That's rude and wrong.

You said that Catholics can't be saved while in the Catholic church. ('in a church that can't save') That's dead wrong.

You said that Catholics are a church that believes you are saved by works. I already told you that the Catholic church believes that you are saved by faith and that works are an OUTWARD SIGN of that faith. I also told you that Martin Luther ADDED the word 'only' to the bible ... saved by faith became saved by faith alone. He mucked with the bible.


Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I could go on and on about the Sacraments, the rosary, ..

Don't bother. You wouldn't have anything to say that all the anti-Catholic fundamentalists haven't already said. Jack Chick too.
I'll pray and worship God the way I want to and you go pray and worship God the way you want to.

I get ticked when ANYONE says that everyone in a certain worship group are all not going to get to heaven. That's highly judgemental and very wrong to do. WRONG WRONG WRONG



[edit on 10/29/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

You said that Rockpuck wasn't bright enough to know what an oblisk is. That's rude and wrong.

It seems to me I was correct in my comment because here is his/her response.


Is there something wrong with an obelisk? No, Europeans where infatuated with Egypt, they plundered it of it's histories and its treasures.. you will find these obelisks all over Rome, all over Europe for that matter.. it is a show of power, of exotic plunder, of history. One of ignorance would surly think it is a satanic and evil four sided pointed rock


He/she obviously doesn't know what an obelisk is. An obelisk comes from the myth of Osiris, Isis and Horus of Egypt. That myth comes from the real story of Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. When Nimrod died he was claimed to now be Baal the sun god. A pregnant Semiramis claimed to be impregnated immaculatly by a ray of the sun god Baal. An obelisk represents a ray of the sun which represents the sex organ of the sun god. I suggest you open your eyes and find out who Baal is.



You said that Catholics can't be saved while in the Catholic church. ('in a church that can't save') That's dead wrong.


Not true, there will be millions and millions of Catholics go to heaven. Those that accept Jesus as their Savior will go. They will however not be saved by what is being taught by the Roman Church.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 10:21 AM
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Hi Shortness:


Short > Terral, to understand what sun matrix is trying to say with the bible texts he provided is to first correlate the events that occur during the day of the Lord. Notice how it says the sun darkens, etc, and then when he uses Matt 24 to establish that its talking about the same thing because of the events that take place.


Heh . . . You guys crack me up! What Sunny is saying is quite obvious to the least among us. He sees the “thousand years” (2Peter 3:8) “Day of the Lord” (2Peter 3:10) as a mere E.V.E.N.T.! What are just some of the ‘restrainer’ prophecies keeping the Antichrist from even appearing in the Holy Place (Matt. 24:15) of the Temple?

There is no Temple standing in Jerusalem today. Right? How is the antichrist going to come and set up his “abomination of desolation” (Dan. 11:31, 12:11) without the restoration of the Temple first? What is going to keep Esau from tearing the thing down in a single day IF the Kingdom is also not ‘restored’ (Acts 1:6+7) through the completion of those ‘times and epochs’ (1Thes. 5:1+2) restoration of ‘ALL THINGS’ (Matt. 17:10+11, Acts 3:21) “times?” You guys keep jumping to the end, when your ‘eschatological scenario’ makes NO PROVISION or those ‘prophetic’ component parts to even be assembled. Anybody can point to Matt 24:29 (Acts 2:19+20) and the signs in the moon and sun to wave their arms around and say just about anything. What does Peter and Christ say that MUST take place first?


Peter > “And it shall be in the LAST DAYS,' God says, 'That I will pour forth My Spirit upon ALL MANKIND; and your sons and your daughters shall prophecy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my bondslaves , both men and women, I will in those days pour forth my of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy.” Acts 2:17+18.

Christ >> "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.” Matthew 24:5-8.


God’s “My Spirit” must first be poured out on “ALL MANKIND,” so that “I will in those days pour forth My Spirit; and they will prophesy.” Christ says that many events (wars, rumors of wars, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom, famines, earthquakes) represent only the ‘beginning of the birth pangs.’ Christ makes more predictions that coincide with Peter’s (Joel 2:28-32) prophesies above, saying,


"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and THEN the end will come.” Matthew 24:9-14.


Nobody has been saved by obeying the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc.) for almost 2000 Years. The fact that my debating opponents do NOT know the difference ( www.belowtopsecret.com... ) is ‘their’ problem. How shall “My Spirit” be poured out on all mankind very near the ‘end of the age?’


“For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:16-17.

“And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues AND PROPHESYING.” Acts 9:6.


We receive the Spirit of God today by ‘hearing with faith’ (Galatians 3:2), according to Gospel #2 from the Gospels link above and nobody here gains the ability to ‘prophesy’ about ANYTHING. The ‘gospel of the kingdom’ is a totally different good news message that God uses for gathering disciples to His prophetic kingdom ‘bride’ (John 3:29), which Elijah will be doing during the 1000 Years “Day of the Lord.” That gospel of the kingdom (Matt. 24:14) must go to the whole world AND God’s Spirit on ALL MINKIND, then the second part of Peter’s prophecy will be fulfilled:


Part 2 of Peter’s “Day of the Lord” Prophecy >> “And I will grant wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood [Matthew 24:29], and before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Acts 2:19-21.


Everyone calling on the name of the Lord in THAT DAY will be answering the angelic calling through the “Eternal Gospel” (Rev. 14:6) sent out just prior to “the End” of this Age. The “gospel of the kingdom” will not be officially offered from God to ANYONE, until Elijah returns to restore ‘all things’ (Matt. 17:10-11, Acts 3:21). How does Elijah coming FIRST fit into Sun’s theology? None of you even mention him restoring anything; much less ‘ALL THINGS,’ as predicted by Christ Himself. Paul is the one who connects the “times and epochs” to the “Day of the Lord” (1Thes. 5:1+2) and Christ connects those times to the ‘restoration of the kingdom to Israel’ (Acts 1:6+7). But you stand with Sun Matrix trying to squeeze all of that into the solitary “wrath of God” event that FOLLOWS the restoration AND the antichrist coming to make those things “desolate” (Matt. 24:15), before Christ even appears 3.5 years LATER.

The combined theology of all my debating opponents does NOT seek to reconcile every word from God on this ‘Day of the Lord’ Topic. They force their round interpretation into a single square hole of one single verse and pretend their work is finished! Then they sit there in the stench of their ignorance under the pretense that I have not spent all of my adult life reconciling every single word. Do you see any contradictions in my testimony anywhere? Great! Quote that and give us something to actually ‘debate.’

GL,

Terral



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Terral

Nobody has been saved by obeying the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc.) for almost 2000 Years.



Look! More anti-christ teachings from the resident Deceiver!



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 10:52 AM
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Hi WhiteWave:


White >> Your verses have repeatedly been shown to be in error of interpretation but you continue stubbornly on. I haven't posted trib arguments here because we've had this same discussion before on bts and another ats thread.


You present yours and I will present mine. Everyone here is welcome to judge us both. Some aspects of my work will find the fertile ground of a fertile heart within those seeking ‘the truth’ on these topics and the majority of scoffers here will NEVER see them. The substance of my arguments and explanations will either stand as ‘good or bad’ (2Cor. 5:10) at the Judgment, based on how ‘God’ sees these things from ‘His’ perspective ‘through’ His Living Word. What the scoffers and mockers among us think is of no importance or consideration to me whatsoever. The fact that you and others here cast stones at things being totally misunderstood is what keeps the untaught and unstable (2Pet. 3:14-16) from ever seeing it.

My many thanks to the wolves in sheep’s clothing (2Cor. 11:15) here for thinning out the herd, because many are called but very, very few are chosen (Matt. 22:14). A very long line forms behind WhiteWave, Flyer, Marg, Valhall, Sun Matrix and the rest and with my hearty approval, because so very few out there are truly “worthy” (Eph. 4:1, 2Thes. 1:5+11) to see God’s Living Word fully explained in this life; and they shall become the intercessors and tutors for the remainder throughout the many ‘ages to come’ (Eph. 2:7). While all of God’s children will see these things laid out plainly in the ages to come, blessed are those who see them today in the current ‘evil age’ (Gal. 1:4) on this side of the veil through His Living Word.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 10:59 AM
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Terral,

Talk about a crackup...............You haven't figured out the name of your god.
If you figure out your gods name be sure and let everyone know.

You also haven't figured out how to explain why the scripture clearly says that the DAY OF THE LORD follows the Great Tribulation.

By the way, everything to build the temple is in order including the flawless Red Heffer without spot or mark and the cornerstone. As soon as the rapture happens, a peace treaty will be signed and the temple will be quickly built.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 11:06 AM
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Christ's prediction of the evil one who will snatch away the message of the kingdom of God:


18"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. 23But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."


- Matthew 13:18-23

Again, Christ predicts the sowing of weeds in the field of truth:


24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.


- Matthew 13: 24-28

Christ explains he's talking about anti-christ teachings just like what Terral is pushing:


36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil.



- Matthew 13: 36-43

Jesus states why he was sent:


42At daybreak Jesus went out to a solitary place. The people were looking for him and when they came to where he was, they tried to keep him from leaving them. 43But he said, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent." 44And he kept on preaching in the synagogues of Judea.


- Luke 4: 42-44

Paul did not create a "new gospel" but adamantly preached the message of the Kingdom of God:


8Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. 10This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.


- Acts 19: 8-10

And just kept doing it every where he went:


23They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets. 24Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. 25They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: "The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26" 'Go to this people and say,
"You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."
27For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'

28"Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"

30For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. 31Boldly and without hindrance he preached the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.



- Acts 28: 23-31



[edit on 10-29-2006 by Valhall]



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 11:23 AM
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While Terral is pounding out another character-limit-bumping excuse for why he must not be seen as the Deceiver he is, I'll just put up a couple of predictive scriptures on the direction all this anti-christ teaching is going:


7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."



- Revelation 12: 7-12



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 11:33 AM
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Terral's superior positioning of Paul's words over Christ's most assuredly has Paul tearing his clothes in his grave:


8In Lystra there sat a man crippled in his feet, who was lame from birth and had never walked. 9He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed 10and called out, "Stand up on your feet!" At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.
11When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, "The gods have come down to us in human form!" 12Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker. 13The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.

14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15"Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and everything in them.


- Acts 14: 8-15



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Terral
Nobody has been saved by obeying the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc.) for almost 2000 Years.

Look! More anti-christ teachings from the resident Deceiver!


Yep. I saw that. That pretty much puts the last nail in his coffin as far as I'm concerned. Not that he cares what I think .. afterall I'm just a woman who should not speak and who should let my husband do all my thinking and speaking.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Terral
Nobody has been saved by obeying the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc.) for almost 2000 Years.

Look! More anti-christ teachings from the resident Deceiver!


Yep. I saw that.


I'm not sticking up for Terral's position, because to be quite honest I can't grasp what his position is.

But the point I would like to state is he may have said that because(and I haven't studied this enough to say for certain) the 'gospel of the kingdom' may be a little different than the Gospel(that currently is what is to be preached to people) that means Christ died for a man or woman's sins and to receive Christ means forgiveness of sin and salvation.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by dbrandt]



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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No dbrandt,

Just do a little searching on Terral (both on BTS as well as other boards) and you'll see exactly what he means. He states that Christ taught the Gospel of the Kingdom and you can't be saved by that, but Paul taught a second gospel and that's the only way you can be saved.

He's an anti-christ teacher. He's a pro-Paul teacher. It's that simple. If you would like, I'll link you to Terral's words on this matter. Let me know.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall

He's an anti-christ teacher. He's a pro-Paul teacher. It's that simple. If you would like, I'll link you to Terral's words on this matter. Let me know.


Why that seems not to surprise me a bit.
All alone he has been trying to push his own interpretation of what he has been gifted by angels to preach. [or that is what he is hinting.]

Plus anyway we are nothing than mere women our opinions do not mean much in Terrals world of self-righteousness.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
If you would like, I'll link you to Terral's words on this matter. Let me know.


Honestly, I have trouble following what he writes. I wish he could just state his point in 3 or 4 sentences.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Valhall
If you would like, I'll link you to Terral's words on this matter. Let me know.


Honestly, I have trouble following what he writes. I wish he could just state his point in 3 or 4 sentences.


Here dbrandt, I read a few posts of Terral in the alien thread. Here's what I posted.

Let me make sure I'm following what you are saying. Here's what I got so far.

Adam = John the Baptist = Elijah = Joshua = David = Word of the Word = Earth =
Adams broken body = Eve = Water = Spirit = Heavens.

Hope that helps you with his point of view. He hasn't quite figured out the name of his god either.



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