Originally posted by Terral
Next, do we find Paul himself connecting this ‘Rapture’ (1Thes. 4:17) topic to ‘the mystery’ (Eph. 3:3) anywhere? Yes we do! Paul writes,
Behold, I tell you A MYSTERY; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the
imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.” 1Corinthians 15:51-53.
Now, hold the true definition of the term “musterion” in the forefront of your mind (read it again if needed) and ask yourself if the Doubting
Thomas’ of this topic have yet to have these things revealed to them by the illumination of God’s Spirit! Paul is obviously teaching SOMETHING
right here to these Corinthians, which he will do again to the Thessalonians in describing the same trumpet where the dead are raised first:
"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have
fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of [the] archangel and with the trumpet of God, and
the dead in Christ will rise first. Then WE WHO ARE ALIVE and remain will be CAUGHT UP [Harpazo #726 = Rapture] together with them in
the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.” 1Thessalonians 4:15-17.
The two things you insist on, Mystery & Rapture
involves "and we will be changed
" from top quote box
involves "we who are alive and remain will be caught up
" from the lower quote box.
concepts written as 'changed' and in the other 'caught up'
were in scripture since it was written and remains still in those same words....
It was the Mr. Darby
dude in the 1830's substituted the word "Rapture" for this event
..it is his concept word---not the scriptures!!
imho, the Mystery
of instantly changing something, in this case mortal but living flesh into incorruptable bodies...is not an unpresidented
The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) has been doing the ritual of the Mass for millennia, where communion wafers & wine undergoes
and mysterously turns into the body & blood of Christ.
sounds pretty much like the mystery at the Last Trumpet!? no?
Now, how many ATS members and guest readers truly believe The “Rapture” Ideology Was NOT EVEN CONSIDERED Until 1830?? I believe we must be
willing to accept that early Christians faced the same misinterpretations from factions (1Cor. 11:19 = sects) like Christians find among our
the body of early Christians didn't have scripture available to read for themselves, the Clergy went about instructing the congregations as they
they doled out learning & teachings for 10s of centuries, all the way until the reformation era. in the dark ages & the inquisition the clergy sold
in a sense...the age of enlightenment was spurred on by reasoned persons & the availability of shared knowledge...such as printing the Bible (although
only the privledged elite could read)...
You have a pecular view of 70AD-1890's AD, that the congregations were both free and informed...on the contrary, if the average person wasn't active
& tithing to the Church ?monopoly?. they were scorned by their peers & became social pariahs, even stoned or burned at the stake for not witnessing to
What does Daniel see?
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the
city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war;
yes, in the 62nd week (of Daniels 70 week timeline) Christ was crucified
then there is a undetermined span of time that comprise weeks 63 - 69
then the endtimes begin for the final 70th week [Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation]
but in Daniel, there is the verse concerning the 'regathered people'
most say it is the 1948 Israel...
however this regathered people from all nations are living in unwalled cities & having no gates, then Daniel poses the question, ?Is it for land,
riches? that the
King of Fierce countenance is attacking those living in peace & (in Israel)
if this endtimes King is either Gog/Magog or even the AC...it sure doesn't
stand to reason that our present time (with the recent Hezbollah-Lebanon-Israel war) or the fast building of the 'seperation wall' / 'security
fence' follows anything
resembling the endtimes verses in Daniel....
which in turn knocks the legs out of any impending
rapture/ being changed instantly/ or being caught up in the clouds, mystery.
its great mental exercise and/or cause for the study of scripture,
but, i'm tired, and its past my zonk out time