Is the Pope right for speaking up about Islam as no one else has...

Originally posted by krossfyter
i hope you are correct. thnx for providing those links.

could the media or some shadow govt. be mediated what they only want us to hear to ushur in a national hatred against islam?

My pleasure. I wouldn't say it's that, but rather money. News agencies get more viewers/readers when they have news containing violence. I doubt they would get the same ratings reporting on a peaceful demonstration than they would showing a riot. With the last demonstration involving the Danish cartoons, the main focus had been on the riots, even through there were many peaceful demonstrations going on at the same time.

99% of Muslims are peaceful? Give me a break, they'll go off the deep end given any excuse.
Suppose a major musque in Los Angeles suddenly turned into shards of wood, and other building materials, American muzzys would go ballistic because muslims have a serious lack of self control. Face it, they have serious issues with wanting to kill everything else before they go and burn in hell. There is no way on earth at this point that anyone can convince me they are even civil people, because they are commanded by madhammad to LIE and then kill the people they just lied to.

That is the reason they are not allowed on my property, in my house and may not speak to me unless it is through a third party, they are not allowed to attempt to catch my eye or address me ... or they will pay with all they have.

THe pope is, imo, being rather hypocritical. I've heard him consistently rail against 'secularism attacking christianity' and faith in general, and then he goes and says 'mohammed was a bloody little murderer and islam is violent'.

And this from a guy who's office started the crusades, the inquisitions, and is probably responsible for more human deaths than any other organization in existence. Mote, beam, eye, no?

[edit on 17-9-2006 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
American muzzys would go ballistic because muslims have a serious lack of self control. Face it, they have serious issues with wanting to kill everything else before they go and burn in hell. There is no way on earth at this point that anyone can convince me they are even civil people, because they are commanded by madhammad to LIE and then kill the people they just lied to.

So you can support your claim that "Muhammad commands Muslims to lie and then kill people they lie to" with any sources? I would also suggest reading the Terms of Service and remember not to harass.

And about the Mosque you posted, it's called the "King Fahd Mosque," and it's located in Culver City, California, not LA. There was already a plotted suicide attack made on it by members of the Jewish Defense League (Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel) who were arrested before they could destroy it. Did you see any Muslims rioting or killing people over it?

[edit on 18-9-2006 by DJMessiah]

As hypocritical as it is for the Pope to say Islam is violent...someone needs to say what the Pope "said". Eventhough he was quoting from someone else.

And then our fantastic Islamic fundamentalist believers prove the pope wrong (ha!) by threating to kill people if they don't become Muslim:

www.news14charlotte.com...

Thanks Mujahedeen Shura Council! Life is so much better knowing you nuts are around.

The Popes problem is that he has no moral authority. He reigns over a historically corrupt institution.

If he had any backbone he would stand by his statement. But instead he is backtracking as fast as he can.

What a contrast from the Bold statements of Jesus and the apostles.
They did not hold back from condemning the scribes and pharasees who were promoting false religion. They were called "offspring of vipers, serpants, they were described as being from their father the Devil.

Jesus and the apostles were certainly not worried about being politically correct or appeasing the masses.

This whole thing is sickening to me. Religion is a disgusting concept to me. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Catholicism… it all sickens me. Such evil in the name of a made up god whom supposedly is the conduit to spread peace, love and compassion. This world is utterly doomed until man gets a grip on this social disease.

Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground…

If a new world order recreated a new society based on mans laws and did away with the mixture of religion and government I would be all for it. This madness needs to stop. What ever happened to just good old fashioned respect for each other?

Take a look at the world people… if god existed in any form do you think god would allow this insanity to continue in his name? Humanity is clearly out of control with this….and if this is god’s way of testing us I would spit in his sick evil face and demand my existence to end that very moment. I wont be witness or part of it.

Evil is as evil does.... and religion is nothing but evil.

Others have spoken out about Radical Islam and the threat that it poses. There was a movie made called "Obsession" in 2005, but everyone has been afraid to play it and circulate it because of the fall out. It is a grouping of tapes from teachings and rallies held by Radical Islamics all over the world. It shows them chanting "Kill Americans" by the tens of thousands. I hope people get a chance to realize that there is a large amount of Radical Islmaics hiding behind a good religion and doing the wrong thing.

Here is a link for the movie that many are calling "The most important movie that you will see in your life".

Thread Here - Obession The Movie

What do you expect?

The guy's pushing 80...hardly in touch with the world today...
(and I know a couple of folks that old who do, but not him)

Formerly in Hitler's army for Christ's sakes! (he'll say he had no choice, I say you ALWAYS have a choice, and that one not willing to die for his beliefs certainly has no place being the spokesman for an entire religion)

Quoting the ideals of the 14th Century? Again, what did you expect from the leader of a religion that calls Mohammed a child molester (talk about pot calling the kettle black!) while numerous scandals of a real nature occur. Hell, David was a child molester by today's standards, but you know, folks got together a bit earlier back in the day...when you only lived to your 40's.

Anyhoo...before one makes judgements about an entire religion, it would probably be best to actually experience those who practice it. I had the fortune of having such an experience as a child and living with them for a few years, and I certainly did not see the CNN muslims most of America perceives them to be.... I saw folks just like you and me. Sure, some of the ideas are a bit behind the times to us, but most wanted peace, and were extremely hospitable. Indeed, the Middle East has extreme rules for how to be quite gracious hosts.

There is a BIG difference between the majority of Islam and the fanatics. Sure, the fanatics get all the press, but at some point, the rest of Islam needs to rise up and take a stand against the fanatics when they tarnish their image....lest they risk getting lumped right together with them...

Alas, the time for that may already be past... Can you imagine what would happen to Arab Americans if another 9/11 event occurred? I'd wager the camps of Japanese after Pearl Harbor would be nothing campared to that.....sadly...

Originally posted by Gazrok
Formerly in Hitler's army for Christ's sakes! (he'll say he had no choice, I say you ALWAYS have a choice, and that one not willing to die for his beliefs certainly has no place being the spokesman for an entire religion)

The pope was a member of the Hitler Youth Movement and spent a small amount of time in the army. We don't hold people to account for serving in an enemy military. We hold them to account for the crimes they have committed. There is no evidence that the pope was involved in any atrocities.

According to this report, the pope deserted the German Army.

www.suntimes.com...

In May 1945, thousands of German prisoners of war trudged down the highway toward the Bavarian town of Bad Aibling. Among them-- tired but grateful to be alive-- was 18-year-old Joseph Ratzinger, who days before had risked death by deserting the German army.


In 1941, Ratzinger, 14, and his brother, Georg were enrolled in the Hitler Youth when it became mandatory for all boys. Soon after, he writes in his book, "The Salt of the Earth," he was let out because of his intention to study for the priesthood.

In 1943, like many teenage boys, he was drafted as a helper for an anti-aircraft brigade, which defended a BMW plant outside Munich. Later, he dug anti-tank trenches. When he turned 18, on April 16, 1945, he was put through basic training, alongside men in their 30s and 40s, drafted as the Third Reich went through its death agony. He was stationed near his hometown-- he doesn't say where-- but did not see combat with the approaching U.S. troops.

After he returned home, the Americans finally arrived-- and set up their headquarters in his parents 18th century farmhouse on the outskirts of the town.

They identified him as a German soldier, made him put on his uniform, put up his hands, and marched him off to join other prisoners kept in a nearby meadow. Taken to a camp near Ulm, he wound up living outside for several weeks, surrounded by barbed wire.

Google Search



[edit on 2006/9/18 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
99% of Muslims are peaceful? Give me a break, they'll go off the deep end given any excuse.
Suppose a major musque in Los Angeles suddenly turned into shards of wood, and other building materials, American muzzys would go ballistic because muslims have a serious lack of self control. Face it, they have serious issues with wanting to kill everything else before they go and burn in hell. There is no way on earth at this point that anyone can convince me they are even civil people, because they are commanded by madhammad to LIE and then kill the people they just lied to.

That is the reason they are not allowed on my property, in my house and may not speak to me unless it is through a third party, they are not allowed to attempt to catch my eye or address me ... or they will pay with all they have.

Unfortunately, everything you have said in this post is completely false and you've demonstrated your total lack of knowledge concerning Islam.

Muslims aren't allowed on your property, in your house? You won't even SPEAK to a muslim? You have serious, SERIOUS issues, my friend....

I personally don't see the big point in this. The pope said some unkind words about the Islamic faith ... the extremists that are shooting nuns (in the back no less) and rioting, already believe we are "infidels" and going to hell for our way of life. How does shooting a nun show proper retribution for words in a speech.

This is a replay of the Danish cartoon issues that also caused rioting and violence. I understand that in their faith it is very disrespectful to show images of Mohammed. However these were not in a muslim paper .. nor were they directed at a muslim community .. they were printed in a paper written by "infidels" for "infidels".

I can't fathom the violent outrage it sparked in the fanatic muslims. Why should they be free to criticize our governments, religions and way of life but we need to be very tight-lipped on our comments on them. I think that is part of the problem I have in reconciling their actions and re-actions to current events .. I simply can't understand their reasoning process in the way they choose to react to comments and criticisms from other religions and peoples.

i just have to do this...

i know some of you wont agree and probably would rebuttle... but im emotional now---


comparison of muhammed an Jesus:

"M-prophet of war
J-prince of peace

m-disciples kill for faith
J-disciples KILLED for their faith

M-promoted persecution
J-forgave an converted chief prosecutor

m-taker of Life
J-giver of life

m-murdered thousands
J-murdered none but saved many

M-practiced force
J-preached faith

m-was a warrior
j-a deliverer

m-conqured his enemies with a sword
J-Conqured with the sword of the HOLY SPIRIT which is the word of GOD.

m-said to the masses "Convert or die'
J-said beleive an live

m-Swift to shed someones blood
J-shed his own blood for salvation

M-preached DEATH to infidels
J-jesus prayed,Father forgive them for they know not what they do.

M- his tomb...OCCUPIED!
J -His tomb...EMPTY!"

Originally posted by krossfyter
J-converted chief prosecutor

This is interesting. I don't remember this part. Could you provide a source?

Originally posted by krossfyter
i just have to do this...

i know some of you wont agree and probably would rebuttle... but im emotional now---

Hello again. A lot of what you posted isn't correct. The only times Muhammad and his followers were forced to fight had been in self defence. Like I stated earlier, Jesus and his followers did not have to be forced into war, rather the country's army fought the wars instead of them. Muhammad's situation was much different, in that he and the Muslims had to flee their homes or face death. He preached monotheism, which angered the polytheistic Meccans, who would profit off of statues of gods and the festivals they held to praise them. Muhammad and the Muslims settled on land they themselves had to protect, when Meccan and outside armies would come to kill him and his followers for preaching monotheism rather than polytheism. Muhammad never preached "Convert or die," and I'm hoping you can show me where you read this. Muhammad's followers also died for their faith. Muhammad was never "swift to shed someone's blood," and always taught to accept peace and tolerance over killing. The Quran itself teaches that to kill one human is like killing everyone on Earth, but to save one human is like saving every life on Earth.

You also posted that Muhammad "preached DEATH to infidels," so I would like you to show me where he said this. If you're refering to the Quran, I already covered this. The "infidels" were the pagans who tried to assasinate Muhammad and the Muslims. They were already asked for peace, but they chose to have war instead and kill the Muslims. Lastly, Muhammad's grave is also empty; just like Moses, he went to heaven on a golden ladder. Muhammad taught tolerance for humanity, created the belief in freedom for slavery (that freeing a slave is the right thing to do) and to treat slaves as you would your own brother (if he doesn't have any clean clothes, you must help them by giving them your own clothing you posses, if they are hungry then you must share your food with them, if they want freedom then you must give it to them).

Oh here we go, lets infurate the Muslim even more. When you thought things couldnt get worse.

Here comes along a Cardinal from Australia, calims that what the pope said about the Isalm religion has been proven correct.

Cardinal George Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, said: "The violent reaction in many parts of the Islamic world justified one of Pope Benedict's main fears."

Man I hope there is no more demonstrations or killing as a result of this. The pope apologised. Wish other cardinals and priests would shut up.

SOURCE

the world is indeed choosing sides, for the looming global conflict which many-
from both sides- are intent on having happen...sooner than later.

this article at www.opednews.com...
kinda mirrors my take on the Pope's remarks....it's a political ploy!

here's a sentence or two from the article:

Ratsinger is not stupid. Including the reference to the passage that has incited Muslim anger was no accident. It was calculated, intentional strategy designed to help George Bush and the Republicans in the 2006 elections, just like the Catholic Church systematically helped Bush and the Republicans in the 2004 elections,
through Cardinals and Bishops who attacked Kerry. (...)

the Pope back-peddled a bit...when he said he regretted that the Muslims had gotten so angry at the hundreds year old message.
But you notice he did not rescend or withdraw the words that infuriated them.

Benedict XVI is aligning the church faithful against Islam...i'm sure that there will be all that 'diplomatic dancing' which is part of the dynamic which is to convince all the Catholics, Christians, and by extension all the Eastern Orthodox to align with the western world in the Face-to-Face with Islam & Muslims

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Oh here we go, lets infurate the Muslim even more. When you thought things couldnt get worse.

Here comes along a Cardinal from Australia, calims that what the pope said about the Isalm religion has been proven correct.

Cardinal George Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, said: "The violent reaction in many parts of the Islamic world justified one of Pope Benedict's main fears."

Man I hope there is no more demonstrations or killing as a result of this. The pope apologised. Wish other cardinals and priests would shut up.

SOURCE

its quite true though. scary.

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by krossfyter
i just have to do this...

i know some of you wont agree and probably would rebuttle... but im emotional now---

Hello again. A lot of what you posted isn't correct. The only times Muhammad and his followers were forced to fight had been in self defence. Like I stated earlier, Jesus and his followers did not have to be forced into war, rather the country's army fought the wars instead of them. Muhammad's situation was much different, in that he and the Muslims had to flee their homes or face death. He preached monotheism, which angered the polytheistic Meccans, who would profit off of statues of gods and the festivals they held to praise them. Muhammad and the Muslims settled on land they themselves had to protect, when Meccan and outside armies would come to kill him and his followers for preaching monotheism rather than polytheism. Muhammad never preached "Convert or die," and I'm hoping you can show me where you read this. Muhammad's followers also died for their faith. Muhammad was never "swift to shed someone's blood," and always taught to accept peace and tolerance over killing. The Quran itself teaches that to kill one human is like killing everyone on Earth, but to save one human is like saving every life on Earth.

You also posted that Muhammad "preached DEATH to infidels," so I would like you to show me where he said this. If you're refering to the Quran, I already covered this. The "infidels" were the pagans who tried to assasinate Muhammad and the Muslims. They were already asked for peace, but they chose to have war instead and kill the Muslims. Lastly, Muhammad's grave is also empty; just like Moses, he went to heaven on a golden ladder. Muhammad taught tolerance for humanity, created the belief in freedom for slavery (that freeing a slave is the right thing to do) and to treat slaves as you would your own brother (if he doesn't have any clean clothes, you must help them by giving them your own clothing you posses, if they are hungry then you must share your food with them, if they want freedom then you must give it to them).

a lot of what you are trying to rebuttle can be soundly rebuttled the other way (or on your level of dissent). i dont believe at all that Muhammad taught tolerance... but primarily taught violence.
thats my belief... i respect yours but i dont agree with it.

i do agree that most muslims are nice peaceful people... but only some of them are "bad".

you seem nice and peaceful.




[edit on 19-9-2006 by krossfyter]

krosfyter
i dont believe at all that Muhammad taught tolerance... but primarily taught violence.

I presume you are basing that on the violent yahoos that are saying that they are doing this for mohammed's god, no?
But, what would you think of christianity, if all you had to go on was the actions of the crusading knights, who raped and pillaged their way from europe and into jerusalem, and then slaughter the people there?

Mohammed wasn't a pacifist, and he didn't say that you need to be a pacifist in order to go to heaven, as opposed to jesus, who appears to have been a pacifist and told his followers to be so (to literally turn the other cheek, rather than fight the person hitting you). But mohammed didn't say 'kill the infidels'. He made rules that govern warfare, recognizing that warefare exists in the world, and that muslims will need to fight back, and whats more, those rules only permit the most violent types of warfare when someone has invaded the territory of islam, and even then, the faithful are urged to fight without surrender. While jesus might've been upset with that, I don't think any other reasonable person would reject it. Everyone, especially people in america, say, if somoene comes into your home, you fight them, and kill them if need be, but you don't just give up or pity the invader.