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Is the Pope right for speaking up about Islam as no one else has...

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posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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you can pick on christianity but you cant pick on islam?

pfft.




posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:14 PM
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"Islam is a peaceful religion."

Tell that to the muslim person who tries to leave Islam for another faith. The penalty is death. Tell that to the people who died on 9/11.

"We are angry with the pope that he states Islam is violent." [not word for word]
Statement made by Muslims stating the reason they firebombed 5 non catholic churches in Palestine.

Dont give me "what about GWB"- he's just as bad. He is acting on behalf of the government he heads (notice I do not say americans), not as a byproduct of his religious faith.

Actions speak louder than words.

Why do moderate muslims ( Muhommed Ali, Kareen Abdul Jabbar) remain silent on this issue of islamic hatred? Are they opposed to such violence? I have heard accounts of imams who preach peace to the media, then preach deception and jihad to their congregations.

As Forrest Gump might say, "Peaceful is as peaceful does."

G.Houtchens
armchair coach
amateur historian



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:19 PM
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Forrest Gump would never say that. You have offended me, so I have to kill you, your family, your pets, blow up your house, and of course myself.

Amazing how the moronic statement I just made makes sense in our world.

[edit on 16-9-2006 by Akraites]



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:22 PM
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Both religions are man made myths. Both religions need to remove the bad in them and leave only the good that is left for future generations to follow.

If their is a god neither of these religions describe it. It is human made fiction. Its a fact and no one on this planet can prove differrently. You may believe it with all your hearts but it does not make it so. You have been lied to and brain washed. At least some of you remain peacefull though and for that we can all be thankfull.

Both religions have some good morale values that would be good for people to follow, but they also have horrible false lies, made up by men, with agendas that have caused many, many deaths and wars on our planet.

Christian folk are generaly growing away from the bad stuff in the Holy Bible. Islamists are falling behind in this endevor but some are evolving. I hope both evolve to peace before it kills many more.

Our world is a scarier place when men of high religous beliefes rule countries, no matter what your politics may be, this is bad for all of us.

if you have allowed yourself to believe holy in a invisible quiet all powerfull creator and become a world leader it is not a far streatch to start thinking your actions are ordained by your god. That my friends is scary as hell.


[edit on 16-9-2006 by Xeven]



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Akraites
....Why do muslims have such thin skin? Oh no! The Pope spoke out against Islam! Now we're crying! I'm not a religious person, but I'm tired of the Muslims bitching every time someone says something about them. Someone draws a cartoon, so they need to kill everyone involved. I mean, enough is enough.


Like what was posted before, the Pope's comments effect the views of many Catholics in the world. Demonizing another religion in his speech is not something people can just shrug away. For instance, if he were to quote Hitler in saying that "Jews are the problem," would that mean that he should not be held accountable for what he said? He brought up the issue of condeming a prophet and he left it at that, without an explanation as to why. His "spokesmen" said it was merely to open dialogue between Muslims and the Papal Church, and yet if that were the case you would see him inviting Imams to the church for dialogue rather than blatantly stating to the extent of, "I'll quote a medievel writter, when he said your prophet brought only evil and destruction." Is that how you want to start a scholarly dialogue?

It's a good thing people haven't rioted for smaller things, because we all know people never riot when their favorite sports team loses, or a concert has run out of tickets, or because people have been drinking too much.


Originally posted by Houtchens
"Islam is a peaceful religion."

Tell that to the muslim person who tries to leave Islam for another faith. The penalty is death. Tell that to the people who died on 9/11.


The Quran does not state the penalty for leaving Islam is "death," so do not base Islam on the actions of men who made their own laws. Imams all over the world condemed the attacks in 9/11, plus there was a Muslim man who died in the buildings as well if I'm not mistaken, so why make it look like that attacks were backed by Muslims all over the world? I know someone will post, "People were dancing in the streets," and I would have to ask you to question the validity of the video you say you saw or heard about. The one that was shown on TV and on the net was a stock footage of a celebration in Kuwait.


"We are angry with the pope that he states Islam is violent." [not word for word]Statement made by Muslims stating the reason they firebombed 5 non catholic churches in Palestine.


The Pope commented on Muhammad's actions as being evil, not on Islam being violent. Even though the actions of those Palestinians were against Islam, they still did it out of anger. It's great that no one else in the world gets angry when they're offended, or else you would see violence all over the world, right?


Why do moderate muslims ( Muhommed Ali, Kareen Abdul Jabbar) remain silent on this issue of islamic hatred? Are they opposed to such violence? I have heard accounts of imams who preach peace to the media, then preach deception and jihad to their congregations.


I've heard this over and over again. The problem isn't that we're silent, the problem is that no one will let us speak. We have no outlet in the media to condem acts such as these. When the media tends to only focus on violence, then what room do we have to speak against that violence? If you feel that imams preach hate, then I would suggest you go to a Mosque and see for yourself if that is true. From every Mosque I've visited in GA, no Imam preached hate, but rather the contrary. They all asked Muslims to practice peace and only "fight" through debate not physical violence. Jihad means "struggle." You have an act on jihad every time you decide to do good over evil. In essence, it means a struggle to choose good over evil.

[edit on 16-9-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:29 PM
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Catholics are pissed because Muslims blow stuff up when they get angry. It isn't about "Oh no! They are our friends Mr. Pope! Why would you say such things?" Its more about "Goddamnit Mr. Pope! We need you alive!"



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Akraites
Catholics are pissed because Muslims blow stuff up when they get angry. It isn't about "Oh no! They are our friends Mr. Pope! Why would you say such things?" Its more about "Goddamnit Mr. Pope! We need you alive!"


Do tell us where a billion Muslims keep explosives near them anytime they feel angered.

[edit on 16-9-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by krossfyter
you can pick on christianity but you cant pick on islam?

pfft.

you can pick on whoever you want, but why would you want to? does it help? The pope made very insulting statements, which cant help. Is he allowed to? Yes. Should he? Not a chance. What a horrid example. Jesus is turning in his grave.
Love thine enemy. Turn the other cheek.
How about those ideals?
We have freedom of speech, say whatever. But why say things that you know will only hurt, anger, and alienate people. Love alone can dispell hate. Pope Benedict showed more hate than love in his choice of material.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:56 PM
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Uh...the Pope simply said nothing good has come from Islam. He didn't denounce it to hell and say God hates muslims. Chill out there...

Love is usually < Bombs unless everyone in a region unites and attacks the one dropping or running with the bomb.



[edit on 16-9-2006 by Akraites]



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:58 PM
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Great post, BlackGuardXIII.


You're right. The previous Pope wanted to connect the three faiths (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), but this one seems to only want to great space between Islam and the other two. I don't think this Pope will resist his comments on other faiths in the future.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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Pope disgraced himself


In no way has the pope disgraced him self. This is absolute hogwash. What he said and quoted has been taken out off context. Pure and simple.




It's funny how this thread keeps going back to a battle between the more evil, Christianity or Islam. I really think that we're well into the final Crusade.


The pope has apologised for the comments he made and is upset that they have been taken out of context the way they have,

This is not the so called final crusade you are making it out to be. Maybe he has judged it wrong to say those words, with the recent conflicts and the tension.

But to apologise for pointing out that Violence and Religion are not compatiable and then having to apologise for it. Total Hogwash. He was mainly tyring to open dilogue. As far as Im concerned, him apologising has weakened the His Status and the Status of the Catholic Religion.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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Spencer, his associates stated that he gave an appology, but it was not a public one.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
Great post, BlackGuardXIII.


You're right. The previous Pope wanted to connect the three faiths (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), but this one seems to only want to great space between Islam and the other two. I don't think this Pope will resist his comments on other faiths in the future.


The previous Pope hasn't witnessed recent events. Probably because hes dead.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Akraites

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Great post, BlackGuardXIII.


You're right. The previous Pope wanted to connect the three faiths (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), but this one seems to only want to great space between Islam and the other two. I don't think this Pope will resist his comments on other faiths in the future.


The previous Pope hasn't witnessed recent events. Probably because hes dead.


Pope John Paul II died on April 2, 2005. What "recent" events have occured in a year that would change his mind?



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:15 PM
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Uh...remember the time people died because of a cartoon in European newspapers? Cause I do.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Akraites
Uh...remember the time people died because of a cartoon in European newspapers? Cause I do.


Who did the rioters kill, and would this issue have a more detrimental effect to the previous Pope's judgement, in contrast to other things that have happened (i.e. Iraq war, Afghanistan and Taliban, 9/11)?

[edit on 16-9-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Akraites
Uh...the Pope simply said nothing good has come from Islam. [edit on 16-9-2006 by Akraites]

And thats okay?
You say he didn't damn them to hell. That's because thats a given, to most Christians.
What if I said nothing good has come from your people, your family, you?
And besides, he's totally full of sh*t. He knows damn well that there has been a lot of good from Islam. If not, he's a complete fool on top of being a nasty, meanspirited troublemaker bully. Well, maybe he doesn't know after all.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 02:49 PM
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I back the pope on this. Im not a religious person more spiritual but i see muslims bad mouthing christian faith all the time and killing innocent people.
if the pope had killed hundreds of innocent people then maybe i would disagree, but I think the pope has a very valid point.
We condem terrorism but at the same time people seem to unwittingly protect it.

Bring on the end of the world and stop all this madness!



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by theukman
I back the pope on this. Im not a religious person more spiritual but i see muslims bad mouthing christian faith all the time and killing innocent people.
if the pope had killed hundreds of innocent people then maybe i would disagree, but I think the pope has a very valid point.
We condem terrorism but at the same time people seem to unwittingly protect it.

Bring on the end of the world and stop all this madness!

I agree with the last sentence, but I don't feel that it is very spiritual to respond to badmouthing with more of the same. I wonder if that is the best way to go. Or what about responding to badmouthing with love? Nicer, I think. And even if it were a valid point, which it most certainly isn't, but if it was, why say it? My mom taught me that if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything. I like that rule, though I sometimes break it.
The RCC, led by his holiness, Benedict, has not done all it could to save the lives of the starving children of the world. I am quite sure of that. If they let even one of the 29 000 kids, who starve to death every single day of the year, die when they could have afforded to feed him/her, they are responsible for that death. They didn't directly kill them, but they let it go on. That is not much better than killing them outright, imo.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 03:18 PM
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zipperfish.com...

this flash cartoon sums up the Muslim mentality better than i ever could.

warning, swearing.

(it also digs at other religeons too)

[edit on 16-9-2006 by rustiswordz]



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