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Originally posted by hexrain1
When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy.
True the bible is the book that points Lucifer out as satan which I believe to be the truth, Isaiah14:12 says:
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Sorry but the bible makes it pretty clear that Lucifer is the destroyer of the whole world and that those who worship him will make their home with him where he lives. And the book of Isaiah pre-dates the catholic church by quite a strech
Originally posted by hexrain1
now if we could only agree on the point that affecting people's free will through magic and brainwashing is wrong, maybe we could get somewhere. geomancy and television are great things aren't they.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
hex, I actually agree with pretty much most of that.
Concerning Lucifer, the word is Latin for "light bringer". It obviously was not in the original Hebrew in the book of Isaiah. It was added by St. Jerome, primarily as a joke (St. Jerome's major theological opponent was St. Lucifer of Cagliari, and adding "Lucifer" to the text was meant to take a jab at the Christian priest of the same name).
Furthermore, the individual that Isaiah is talking about here is not the devil, but Tigleth-pilaser, king of Babylon.
That being said, the occult connotations of "Lucifer" have nothing to do with St. Jerome or the Christian Bible. Instead, it was originally a term applied to the office of Apollo (the sun, which is the physical light bearer), and also sometimes to the planet Venus, which is the Morning Star. In occultism, "Lucifer" is not a person or a demon, but a symbol of enlightenment, knowledge, purity, etc., borrowing from the classical origins of the word. The Christians didn't begin naming their devil "Lucifer" until much later.
Yes it's wrong but geomancy is not a brainwashing technique!
Mancy comes from the greek word manteia meaning divination. Other examples of this use are NCartomancy (divination by cards) Plastromancy (divination by turtle shell), Uromancy (divination by urine) Bibliomancy (books), Aeromancy (weather), Pyromancy, (fire) and on and on.
Originally posted by hexrain1
whoa, masonic_light, i can't believe we actually agree on some points.
now if we could only agree on the point that affecting people's free will through magic and brainwashing is wrong, maybe we could get somewhere.
geomancy and television are great things aren't they.
I'm going to start praying for you guys i think. maybe, since i don't believe in fighting hate with love, this could be a constructive way for me to bring you guys to an awareness that secrets are horrible. does not everyone deserve enlightment, if that is in fact what your fraternity provides... why hide the secrets that could set us all free.
oh yeah, your whole tradition is based on hiram, who withheld that enlightenment from people who didn't "deserve" the knowledge. that's funny though i always thought it was g-d and only g-d who could judge rightously what a person does and does not deserve.
Originally posted by the_sentinal
I wasnt going to post on this thread anymore but I couldnt resist on this one because, the book of Isaiah still pre-dates St. Jerome or St. Lucifer of Cagliari and is most definitely talking about satan in fact strongs concordance of the bible says that the hebrew word is "Heylel"(meaning in a sense of brightness);the morningstar. the concordance says the name applied to satan.
Also the fact that St. Jerome used it as a jab to St. Lucifer of Cagliari would suggest that the meaning of the word was negative and not positive.
That's sort of true, but in another sense you may have missed an important point in the Hiramic Legend. The assassins were not yet prepared to receive that which they searched for. The Master patiently instructed them to keep working diligently, with faith, and eventually they would receive it. They ignored this advice, and attempted to take it by force. Their fate was not a happy one because they were unprepared, and worked iniquity.
In any case, Masonic secrets do not themselves provide any enlightenment, and are comparable to the secrets of other fraternal orders. Nevertheless, it is my belief that Masonry is symbolic of the enlightening process, and it can be used as a guide.
Originally posted by hexrain1
no you have again restated that untruth and perpetuated falsehood. you said the "assasins were not yet prepared". according to who? it says nowhere in the legend that they asked g-d for these secrets and he/she deemed them unworthy. it says they asked HIRAM for these secrets and he felt they would profane them. again, only g-d knows who is rightous and who isn't. for you to state that someone is either worthy or unworthy of knowledge is to assume that you KNOW the will of g-d!
again, if this process can "guide" people to the ultimate truths, to enlightenment (connection and oneness with g-d), why not make it available to all. why make the doctrines of this guiding philosophy secret.
do not the uninitiated deserve to be enlightened as well?
if you hold in your hand a doctrine that can enrich the world and bring peace, why would you not share it with everyone? yes some people will misinterpret possibly profane the teachings, but if they are right and true, then those who need them will find them and understand at exactly the right time.
instead, if freemasonry is indeed a path toward enlightenment, you hide that enlightment, you horde it for yourselves.
how can you use the guise of protecting people when your "protecting" them from enlightenment, from freedom. this is twisted logic.
Please give an example, as I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be condescending here, as I think that you (unlike a couple of others who've appeared here recently) are actually honest about your concerns with Masonry. But I also think that you've misunderstood it. Masonry has always worked as a force for good. It's teachings are not secret. Our memberships are not secret. Any man who is of good character and believes in God is eligible to join the fraternity. I really don't know how to be more open and egalitarian than that.
That's for God to decide, not me. I would say that in my opinion, many do, while many others do not.
It is available to all men, and it's not a secret.
Originally posted by hexrain1
you say in the above quote that its teachings are not secret. if they are not, then why don't you take the rest of this thread as an opportunity to teach me. i like guidance, so guide me. sum up the teachings of the 1-33 degrees, that will sufficiently PROVE to me that you are not hidding teachings, and help me on the path to enlightenment.
if then you do teach me your doctrines and your teachings are not kept secret, what exactly is your oath declaring that it will not divulge to the uninitiated?
Why do i have to JOIN the order to have this guidance?
Why not hold masonic meetings in the middle of parks? why not advertise them and invite all people to join in.
are you now trying to say that there are NO SECRETS at all?
why make an organization with levels to progress through? if you have to progress through levels to be taught, then aren't you therefore keeping secrets fom lower levels?
if i was in kindergarten and there was no possible way i could understand college level material, does that mean children should be banned from sitting in on college classes?
quote: do not the uninitiated deserve to be enlightened as well?
then why initiate anyone into freemasonry?
maybe you initiate those who are not worthy by g-ds standards.
if youre admitting fallibility of the initiation process, then why not do away with the whole system altogether and share the truth with everyone, not just fraternal orders?
Ahhh yes. to all MEN. therefore are you stating that only men and not women deserve enlightenment? i notice you do not accept women into the order...
Always glad to spread Masonic Light (sorry M.L.)
This site sums up the teachings of the 1-3 degrees
www.mastermason.com...
and this one sums up the teachings of the 4-33:
www.scottish-rite-mn.org...
Ask, and ye shall receive.
The teachings of Masonry are not secret (as demonstrated in the two links above) The ceremonies are private (although exposures of various ceremonies have existed since the 1700's) They are kept private to give them a "mystique" Makes them more special to those who receive them. If they were open, they would become common-place and of little worth. Sort of like when your Mom MADE you and your best friend let your little sister play in your clubhouse. It just wasn't as much fun any more. Ya' know?
Originally posted by hexrain1
Amazing, i've never seen a site that gave me LESS information. first of all, this is not enlightenment, this is symbology.
it sounds like christianity, you GIVE me an interpretation that doesn't instill any feeling of divine truth, and tell me that's all there is to masonry? if i could read EVERYTHING that your order teaches in less than a day, then why do people spend their life struggling to attain these degrees, how can you really be giving me ALL your doctrines. simple, you didn't. you again gave me a half baked answer, with no real substance. this is not enlightenment, not even a guide, it is gibberish. it is interpretations of symbols and an introductory that tells me nothing of its real substance.
this path that we are on is not about fun... it is about spiritual growth. and this spiritual growth benifits everyone. so should you not let everyone into that clubhouse?
Originally posted by hexrain1
you say in the above quote that its teachings are not secret. if they are not, then why don't you take the rest of this thread as an opportunity to teach me. i like guidance, so guide me. sum up the teachings of the 1-33 degrees, that will sufficiently PROVE to me that you are not hidding teachings, and help me on the path to enlightenment.
if then you do teach me your doctrines and your teachings are not kept secret, what exactly is your oath declaring that it will not divulge to the uninitiated?
Why do i have to JOIN the order to have this guidance?
Why not hold masonic meetings in the middle of parks? why not advertise them and invite all people to join in. are you now trying to say that there are NO SECRETS at all?
why make an organization with levels to progress through? if you have to progress through levels to be taught, then aren't you therefore keeping secrets fom lower levels?
if i was in kindergarten and there was no possible way i could understand college level material, does that mean children should be banned from sitting in on college classes?
then why initiate anyone into freemasonry? if only g-d can decide that then why only give information to the initiated, since you stated that only g-d decides. maybe you initiate those who are not worthy by g-ds standards. if youre admitting fallibility of the initiation process, then why not do away with the whole system altogether and share the truth with everyone, not just fraternal orders?
Ahhh yes. to all MEN. therefore are you stating that only men and not women deserve enlightenment? i notice you do not accept women into the order...
Many people believe that the Arizona Wilder video was real, why would she lie???
what motive would she have??
also if you've seen david Ickes wife you would agree that to (shag Mr. Green) would be a serious step down
you GIVE me an interpretation that doesn't instill any feeling of divine truth, and tell me that's all there is to masonry?
We know that no longer the Inquisitor is going to come knocking at our door.