Masons: 2 things I KNOW they're hiding

Originally posted by pepsi78
Masons hide since they discovered welth , they are the modern templar nights, and since the crusades made them welthy by discovering the trejure chest in one of the temples every thing became a secret.

If that's the case, then I want my share. Fork it over, Trinityman.



[edit on 16-8-2006 by Masonic Light]

You are obviously confused. Let me clarify this for you. The Catholic Church was in a financial bind. The Pope then asked the Templars for a loan, which was refused. King Philip had also acquisitioned to become a member, which was also refused. It was from this that such torture and foul accusations arose. Philip needed all the confessions he could get to justify the arrests, which is what I am referring to in my above post--The Knights would have confessed to anything under conditions like that.

Your forgeting about the 12 spies, spies made this statement before any of the capturing or torture ocured, they reported that the templars are worhiping a little statuete, and all of this before the templars even got arested.

point number 2
Pure satanists claim that the templars are satanic.
This is their explenation.

"The symbol of Baphomet was used by the Knights Templar to represent Satan. The Baphomet represents the powers of darkness combined with the regenerative fertility of the goat. In its 'pure' form, the pentagram is shown encompassing the figure of a man in the five points of the star -- three points up, two pointing down symbolizing man's spiritual

here is their site
www.geocities.com...

Now there is the satanists and their religion claiming the night templars to be of their own

here just to prove that satanists think of this and it's part of their belifes
here is another link
www.dpjs.co.uk...
and here is another.
www.churchofsatan.com...

Anton LaVey for some of his artwork. The liner notes, attributed to Franklin Kincaid, say that “the Satanic symbol, Baphomet,” was adopted from the Knights Templar. This symbol was finally widely-released to the general public in December of 1969 with the publication of The Satanic Bible, where it adorned the cover and appeared on the interior page introducing the section detailing the Satanic Ritual

Now why would satanists belive this to be a fact?
When a religion is claming something for their own , well what can you say



[edit on 16-8-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78

Now why would satanists belive this to be a fact?
When a religion is claming something for their own , well what can you say

Perhaps you're putting a little too much faith in the writings of satanists. The modern Baphomet symbol was created by Eliphas Levi in the late 1800's, long after the Templars. The "Baphomet" that the Templars were accused of worshiping was Muhammed (the Europeans were still under the false impression that Muslims worshiped their prophet, and this trumped-up charge was supposed to indicate that the Templars had converted to Islam, thus siding with the enemy).

Nice try, though.

Perhaps you're putting a little too much faith in the writings of satanists.

I just asked a simple question, why would they think this in the first place
Hey you got to hand it to them, it's in their bible

The "Baphomet" that the Templars were accused of worshiping was Muhammed

Aha another misinformation
That is not the case, Western scholars have concluded tha it has no connection with Mohammed and that the ligustics do not share anything in common.

(the Europeans were still under the false impression that Muslims worshiped their prophet, and this trumped-up charge was supposed to indicate that the Templars had converted to Islam, thus siding with the enemy).

they converted allright, but not to islam, to something else, when you got the satanic religion confirming the same, hey it's in their bible.


Nice try, though.

Your examples earlier were not for a Pyramid, a widely accepted shape in Geomancy renowned for its harmonic attributes, but rather an Obelisk. And your claim wasn't on the effect of the Obelisk on the atoms composing its own superstructure, but rather its effects on items of the same ilk as those placed within it. ....
Very interesting site hexrain, I commend you for the link. I don't see how it supports your hypothesis, however.

jeez man you just keep fightin it dont you? a pyramid is an obelisk... its just the top point of one. the pyramid is just the part they constructed but etherealy, not physicaly, is extends down into the earth and effects where the places that the other sides of the obelisk would be. and the article relates because it shows that simply by the shape and material used, pyramids can effect unseen forces and produce energies of unknown (at the moment) physical origin. it shows that they can affect things inside them. its not that much of a stretch to me to hypothisise that these unkown laws of physics could be used to broadcast ethereal or cosmic energy based on the focus or object being affected. i mean this shows there is diffenitly something affecting these object, and large electro-magnetic disturbances immediately above the pyramids. i'm suggeting that the knowledge of using these energies gained from the geometry of the temples and materials used it what geomancy really is, an ancient science that was lost, cause someone decided to horde the knowledge...

[edit on 16-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by pepsi78


That is not the case, Western scholars have concluded tha it has no connection with Mohammed and that the ligustics do not share anything in common.

Which "Western scholars" are those?

(
they converted allright, but not to islam, to something else, when you got the satanic religion confirming the same, hey it's in their bible.

So on one hand, we have academic historians in unison saying that the Templars were innocent on all charges, and even an apology from the Roman Catholic Church on their wrongful persecution...and, on the other hand, a guy on the Internet named after a soft drink who says otherwise.

Which one should I choose?

So on one hand, we have academic historians in unison saying that the Templars were innocent on all charges, and even an apology from the Roman Catholic Church on their wrongful persecution...and, on the other hand

It has been concluded that baphomet is not related to mohamed in any way.

a guy on the Internet named after a soft drink who says otherwise.

hey I didint say it, I was just posting what the satanist said, they all asy the same

They said that the templars .....that and that, why would they say such a thing about the templars , since they are a bunch of satanists it's really worring.

[

[edit on 16-8-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Hobbes

If there was a shred of proof that masons had molested a child, in this day and age, folks would be up in arms over it... if for no other reason than paedophiles sell newspapers and get TV viewers to watch the news. But look... there aren't.

What does that tell you?

It tells a lot and nothing. It might mean that you are right and such occurrence are non-existant or rare. It also can mean that masons are in control of the massmedia and therefore what is broadcasted/written is what they want it to be.

I think both are possibilities. So it is a weak argument...

Originally posted by hexrain1
jeez man you just keep fightin it dont you? a pyramid is an obelisk... its just the top point of one. the pyramid is just the part they constructed but etherealy, not physicaly, is extends down into the earth and effects where the places that the other sides of the obelisk would be. and the article relates because it shows that simply by the shape and material used, pyramids can effect unseen forces and produce energies of unknown (at the moment) physical origin. it shows that they can affect things inside them. its not that much of a stretch to me to hypothisise that these unkown laws of physics could be used to broadcast ethereal or cosmic energy based on the focus or object being affected. i mean this shows there is diffenitly something affecting these object, and large electro-magnetic disturbances immediately above the pyramids. i'm suggeting that the knowledge of using these energies gained from the geometry of the temples and materials used it what geomancy really is, an ancient science that was lost, cause someone decided to horde the knowledge...

A Pyramid is not an obelisk. The reasons that Pyramids work so well with the atoms with themselves and structures within is the fact that the gradual angle of their design is in perfect harmony with the physiology of the materials themselves. I.E...the material is going in the same direction as the actual construction design. In an obelisk, this is only the case at the top, where the design tip forms a pyramid. NOT THE SAME SHAPE, BY FAR.
Second, contrary to your belief, it is quite a stretch to say that something outside of the pyramid would be affected the same as something within, just because they share characteristics. I could use the analogy of an anti-gravity room to illustrate the point. Things outside of the room aren't going to be weightless just because there is something inside, matching in every way, that is weightless.
And one final point, something that has been said before. You can't call something Geomancy that has nothing to do with Geomancy. This is my main sticking point. Call your theory what you'd like, but reference my previous post, the one with a link to a dictionary definition. It's not the same.

[edit on 16-8-2006 by hexrain1]

if the masons hid the real meaning of geomancy as i am suggesting, then you would expect the two definitions not to coincide. thats the whole point... you guys, consciously as individuals or not, have been controlling the world. you have fabricated our entire culture, and everything that was passed down to us from our parents, and the things that were passed from our parents parents, are all your doing. it seems crazy to come out and suggest it. but once you start realizing how long your order has really been around, in whatever form or name thats been given to it when it comes back out from hiding underground on the fringes of society. when you realize that you have been around for all of the religious movements through the writting of all dictionaries, of bibles, of media, tv, etc ect to infinity verbative. you have had control of all these things for a long time. then it is not so strange to assume that maybe you purposfully distorted the definition of geomancy... look up "chinese geomancy". Feng Shui. this is NOT A SYSTEM OF DIVINATION, it is a science of how to control energies or spirits, possibly improving one mental disposition based on how certain objects in an environment are arranged. examples, to the northeast on the compass is called a "demon gate" where evil energies come from. the chinese used magic to dispell these demons. plus certain objects affect things in different ways. but this coin is two sided. if you can use it to heal, to uplift the spirit, to banish or confuse evil spirits, then you can also use it to make sick, to extinguish the spirit, and to call evil forces. of course someone would have to have control over how, where, with what material, and the layout of these things in an environment. you would have to have a monopoly on all building projects, people high up in the architectural feild that would listen to you. fortunately for you guys you have those things. i know you would explain this off as coincidence, but it is too convienent to ignore. you have controled, at least in the case of our country and to some extent all over the world, the building of cities (layout, positioning, materials) from the very beginning of america, and through the industrial revolution in almost every country. not only that but you have people high up in just about everwhere that there is a position of power. you can find masons at the top of the corperate ladder. i guess you guys just insist on explaining this off as coincedence, your real good at diverting attention. but anyone with half a brain can see why your order holds these positions of power. it is POWER.

so i stick to my original statment, that you guys know about geomancy, use it, and at the same time have suppressed it from the common people's knowledge. there's a saying that says "the winners write history". well you certainly have been winning so i'm only supposing forgive me if i'm wrong, that masons wrote the masonic history, as well as the history of the united states, having had control over these things. why then should we, looking at american histories that are notoriously onesided, and at some points in history regurgitating out right lies to the public... why should we then imagine that the masons history would be any more honest and forthright with the facts. then to add on top off that history is SUPPOSED to be public, and is percieved to be public by most in the country, while masonry admittatedly has secrets, how then can we assume that you wrote your own history with any more actuall facts than american history?

again to end, a pyramid is an obelisk. its like saying a square is not a rectangle. a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square, remember that from grade school? quit giving me this drivel about how i have no idea what i'm talking about. indeed you know as well as i do what i'm saying, your only trying to confuse the others on this board who would comprehend what i'm saying, had you not brought the subject off-topic

Originally posted by hexrain1
you guys, consciously as individuals or not, have been controlling the world. you have fabricated our entire culture, and everything that was passed down to us from our parents, and the things that were passed from our parents parents, are all your doing. it seems crazy to come out and suggest it. but once you start realizing how long your order has really been around, in whatever form or name thats been given to it when it comes back out from hiding underground on the fringes of society. when you realize that you have been around for all of the religious movements through the writting of all dictionaries, of bibles, of media, tv, etc ect to infinity verbative. you have had control of all these things for a long time. then it is not so strange to assume that maybe you purposfully distorted the definition of geomancy

First off, not a mason. Second, I'm sorry, you can't make the assumption that something's age affects its control over its environment. Snails have been around for thousands of years. Not exactly at the top of the evolutionary ladder. Why aren't they challenging Congress? With your logic, they should already know and control everything.

... look up "chinese geomancy". Feng Shui. this is NOT A SYSTEM OF DIVINATION

Sure, let's look up that definition.

Feng Shui-To begin, let us look at the origin of Feng Shui. During the Zhou Dynasty (from 11th century BC to 256 BC), the fortune of a dwelling was determined by ‘Zhai Bu’ divination. For example, to determine the auspiciousness of a grave site, ‘Zhai Bu’ is used to see if there is an underground spring below the burial site. If there is one, then it is not a suitable site. This practice became the embryonic form of Feng Shui.

]Source
Well, that solves it for me. Thank you for asking me to do that. See the point? You are right about one thing, modern Geomancy is not like it began. Modern Geomancy is based on Feng Shui, which as you asked me to point out, came around in the 11th Century, and is entirely based on Divination.

fortunately for you guys you have those things.

Again, not a mason. The fact that I defend them does not automatically mean I must be a member. Perhaps I defend the fraternity because......wait for it.....they are actually innocent. A stretch, I know, but there are those of us who think Masons drew a bad lot.

i know you would explain this off as coincidence, but it is too convienent to ignore. you have controled, at least in the case of our country and to some extent all over the world, the building of cities (layout, positioning, materials) from the very beginning of america, and through the industrial revolution in almost every country.

Need documentation for statements like this, or else they are just full of hot air and no better than flacid opinion. Show me the names of architects and city planner and those same names on a masonic membeship list. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY- show me where it says that Masons taking part in city planning and construction is conspiratorial and secret.

not only that but you have people high up in just about everwhere that there is a position of power. you can find masons at the top of the corperate ladder. i guess you guys just insist on explaining this off as coincedence, your real good at diverting attention. but anyone with half a brain can see why your order holds these positions of power. it is POWER.

Just as anyone with half a brain can see that it is coincidence. So what? There are just as many non-masons in those posistions as masons, some in even greater posistions of power. The President for example: Is not and has never been a Freemason, neither was his father, contrary to popular CT's. Or are you going to take MissMarple's stand now, and claim that these are just "secret" masons.

so i stick to my original statment, that you guys know about geomancy, use it, and at the same time have suppressed it from the common people's knowledge.

Well, that is your perogotive, but again, you've got nothing to back it up.

there's a saying that says "the winners write history". well you certainly have been winning so i'm only supposing forgive me if i'm wrong, that masons wrote the masonic history, as well as the history of the united states, having had control over these things.

Again, you assume that presence constitutes control. Not the case. This should be fairly obvious and common sense. I would love to be the boss at work, after all I am there every day. I should be in control, right? Perhaps it is just that I am not a Freemason that has kept me from a "position of power". Also, I'll be sure to tell my janitorial friend the local high school that he's getting jipped in his Freemason membership.

why then should we, looking at american histories that are notoriously onesided, and at some points in history regurgitating out right lies to the public... why should we then imagine that the masons history would be any more honest and forthright with the facts. then to add on top off that history is SUPPOSED to be public, and is percieved to be public by most in the country, while masonry admittatedly has secrets, how then can we assume that you wrote your own history with any more actuall facts than american history?

Of course histories are notoriously one sided, but you are looking at that "history is written by the victors" slogan completely out of context. It refers to conquered peoples and the overglorification of events by their conquerors. Wouldn't masons have painted themselves out a bit better if they had "written the histories", as you say?

again to end, a pyramid is an obelisk. its like saying a square is not a rectangle. a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square, remember that from grade school?

I definately remember that from grade school, but I don't remember the part that says a circle is a triangle, and a trapezoid is an oval. Doesn't ring a bell. An obelisk is NOT a pyramid.
(closing for character limit, will follow in next post)

These are for those masses you think I am trying to dissuade, those that you believe would agree with you that an obelisk is a pyramid.

Obelisk


Pyramid


As I said before, this:

Cannot be taken to represent an obelisk and a pyramid. These images speak fairly clearly, IMO. I don't believe those that would be dissuaded by my arguments could argue that. If you refer to the TOP of an obelisk, and the top alone, then sure. But the rest of the structure negates the effects of the pyramid's harmonics and persuasion over objects placed inside. The shape is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same. As I said, the images speak for themselves.

so you dont see that on the TOP of that obelisk is a PYRAMID? are you blind?

sorry for the one line post but i've already beat this horse to deathy, anyone can see how simalar the two objects are, except edenkai.

app1.chinadaily.com.cn...

this one says nothing about divination, it says its about a harmony and balance with nature using the environment to affect things.... MOOD being one of them. so if you can improve someone's mood by what comprises their environment, then you can also change their mood for the worse.

the american heritage dictionary
Feng shui:
The Chinese art or practice of positioning objects, especially graves, buildings, and furniture, based on a belief in patterns of yin and yang and the flow of chi that have positive and negative effects.

encyclopidia britannica
feng shui:
Traditional Chinese method of arranging the human and social world in auspicious alignment with the forces of the cosmos, including qi and yin-yang. It was devised during the Han dynasty (206 BC–AD 220). Specialists, called diviners, use compasslike instruments to determine the exact cosmic forces affecting a site, appropriate sites being chosen particularly in relation to bodies of water and mountains. Feng shui, especially as it affects interior design, has recently become popular in Britain and the U.S.

now the above says they were named diviners, but it doesnt state that they were divining the future, only the forces at work.

A good environment enhances our well being. A bad environment will cause illness. Landscape and river flow are taken into consideration when a Feng Shui consultation is carried out - The landscape can affect the flow of a healthy or a bad life force (chi or energy). It all depends where the house is located and the direction it faces. If the house is in alignment or in rhythm with the landscape, a good healthy life force is created. Good healthy chi will enter the house which will make the occupants vitalised and alert and enable them to make the most of good opportunities that happen around them. Good chi will bring them good health, relationships and prosperity.

On the other hand, if the house is not in alignment with the landscape, then healthy chi cannot be led into the house. The occupants of this house will always feel tired and become lethargic, irritable, forgetful and lose concentration. Worst of all, the occupants may become ill and could miss good opportunities due to the lack of sleep or illness.

source of above material
www.imperialfengshui.com...

[edit on 19-8-2006 by hexrain1]



[edit on 19-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by EdenKaia
These are for those masses you think I am trying to dissuade, those that you believe would agree with you that an obelisk is a pyramid.

Obelisk

www.ibrahimpasha.com... g" border=0>

Pyramid

depts.washington.edu..." border=0>

As I said before, this:

www.geocities.com..." border=0>

Cannot be taken to represent an obelisk and a pyramid.

I've been keeping up with this thread for a while, and IF Edenkaia's post doesn't prove that a pyramid and oblesik are NOT the same, then there is nothing else that can...And hexrain, if your talking about the tops, then OK, thats fine...Other than that Great post Edenkaia

[edit on 19-8-2006 by AllinTheMind89]

good point about there being pyramids on top of the obelisks..

would someone like to comment on this

The enigmatic Masonic insignia "G," which this author considers a cryptic signature of the Gaonim (elite Levites) of Babylon is, I believe not unrelated to the Celtic word Gnadir, which means "serpent," and which was used by the Druids as a title. Indeed, the very word cross, shares roots with the Latin ceras which also means "the serpent." As said, the upper echelons within the Masonic Fraternities are under orders to preserve the ancient archive of geomantic, geometric and astrological knowledge cultivated by those nations and cultures that have been eradicated by the descendants of the Cult of Aton.

Originally posted by hexrain1
so you dont see that on the TOP of that obelisk is a PYRAMID? are you blind?

Hexrain, I don't know why I am bothering to discuss this with you, as you are obviously not even reading my posts. THIS is right above your post.

If you refer to the TOP of an obelisk, and the top alone, then sure.

anyone can see how simalar the two objects are, except edenkai.

Don't see too many of them coming forward. Looks like you're on your own there boss.

app1.chinadaily.com.cn...

this one says nothing about divination, it says its about a harmony and balance with nature using the environment to affect things.... MOOD being one of them. so if you can improve someone's mood by what comprises their environment, then you can also change their mood for the worse.

Of course natural settings can change a mood for the worse. What I don't agree with is an Obelisk placed on one of these locations altering the subconcious mind of human beings into doing the will of Freemasons. You're stretching Geomancy to the absolute limits and then breaking them.

the american heritage dictionary
Feng shui:
The Chinese art or practice of positioning objects, especially graves, buildings, and furniture, based on a belief in patterns of yin and yang and the flow of chi that have positive and negative effects.

encyclopidia britannica
feng shui:
Traditional Chinese method of arranging the human and social world in auspicious alignment with the forces of the cosmos, including qi and yin-yang. It was devised during the Han dynasty (206 BC–AD 220). Specialists, called diviners, use compasslike instruments to determine the exact cosmic forces affecting a site, appropriate sites being chosen particularly in relation to bodies of water and mountains. Feng shui, especially as it affects interior design, has recently become popular in Britain and the U.S.

now the above says they were named diviners, but it doesnt state that they were divining the future, only the forces at work.

Diviner- To foretell through or as if through the art of divination

It does not matter whether a Diviner is telling the future or describing forces at work. Divination is Divination. Plain and simple. Feng Shui is divination.

A good environment enhances our well being. A bad environment will cause illness. Landscape and river flow are taken into consideration when a Feng Shui consultation is carried out - The landscape can affect the flow of a healthy or a bad life force (chi or energy). It all depends where the house is located and the direction it faces. If the house is in alignment or in rhythm with the landscape, a good healthy life force is created. Good healthy chi will enter the house which will make the occupants vitalised and alert and enable them to make the most of good opportunities that happen around them. Good chi will bring them good health, relationships and prosperity.

On the other hand, if the house is not in alignment with the landscape, then healthy chi cannot be led into the house. The occupants of this house will always feel tired and become lethargic, irritable, forgetful and lose concentration. Worst of all, the occupants may become ill and could miss good opportunities due to the lack of sleep or illness.

And this has been common knowledge of farmers and city builders for thousands of years. This is Geomancy. What you refer to as Geomancy is the manipulation of natural energies to control the minds of human beings and bend them to your will. I think your theory goes more along with Telepathy:

Communication and/or dominance through means other than the senses, as by the exercise of an occult power.

[edit on 19-8-2006 by EdenKaia]

Originally posted by invisibleplane
good point about there being pyramids on top of the obelisks..

would someone like to comment on this

The enigmatic Masonic insignia "G," which this author considers a cryptic signature of the Gaonim (elite Levites) of Babylon is, I believe not unrelated to the Celtic word Gnadir, which means "serpent," and which was used by the Druids as a title. Indeed, the very word cross, shares roots with the Latin ceras which also means "the serpent." As said, the upper echelons within the Masonic Fraternities are under orders to preserve the ancient archive of geomantic, geometric and astrological knowledge cultivated by those nations and cultures that have been eradicated by the descendants of the Cult of Aton.

At earliest mention of the symbol's signifigance, I believe you will find that it refers to "God", or the great architect. Other Masons I have spoken with have explained that it refers to both God and Geometry, geometry being the sacred method by which God creates his masterpiece. There are many different accounts of what this means, but after all, it is just a letter. There are inumerable possibilities to what meaning you can give a letter. I could say that it stands for giraffe, but the best idea is to go to the source; those that created the symbol.

One of their principal symbols is the square and compasses, tools of the trade, so arranged as to form a quadrilateral. The square is sometimes said to represent matter, and the compasses spirit or mind. Alternatively, the square might be said to represent the world of the concrete, or the measure of objective reality, while the compasses represent abstraction, or subjective judgment, and so forth. The compasses straddle the square, representing the interdependence between the two. In the space between the two, there is optionally placed a symbol of metaphysical significance. Sometimes, this is a blazing star or other symbol of Light, representing Truth or knowledge. Alternatively, there is often a letter G placed there, usually said to represent God and/or Geometry.

Originally posted by pepsi78

It has been concluded that baphomet is not related to mohamed in any way.

For the third time, by whom? In reality, it has been concluded by many historians that "Baphomet" is a corruption of "Mahomet". The only really logical alternative is that it could be a corruption of the Greek word "Sofia".

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by pepsi78

It has been concluded that baphomet is not related to mohamed in any way.

For the third time, by whom? In reality, it has been concluded by many historians that "Baphomet" is a corruption of "Mahomet". The only really logical alternative is that it could be a corruption of the Greek word "Sofia".

I have also read the same thing about the Baphomet/Mohamed name.

remember when i said they built cities radially out, so that the energies radiate out from a center focus point? check this out... kind of illustrates my point.

www.apopka.net...

read the discription of how the city limits were determined.