Masons: 2 things I KNOW they're hiding

so if anyone still has questions about geomancy, im open to answer questions, but we keep getting off-topic. no more of the molestation thing, we've thouroughly presented both sides to it i believe.

Originally posted by hexrain1
yes this is the definition put forth by historians. but the word that we use now may mean something intirely different than what it actually was at the inception of the science.

Essentially, you are saying here that the concept of geomancy has become diluted into the form we recognize now; that the word meant something other than "sand" or, "marks in the sand", as the word geomancy draws heritage to. Well, no one truly knows for sure the origins of the art, but it is widely accepted from the little evidence provided that Geomancy originated in Islamic North Africa. This is where the European word seems to get its heritage. The arabic word, "raml" was used to imply this art, and that word meant "sand", referring to the symbols drawn and interpretted. My point is that going off of your quote, I can say that the reason we mow our lawns is because of a diluted practice that originated as a method of mind control created by the gods for use in ceremony to promote mass humility. You see the point? I can make up whatever I want and then just claim that this was the original intent of those who created the practice. That doesnt make the argument legitimate. What evidence do you have to support your theory? Show me in language and translations, as this is where the name "geomancy" came from to begin with. If you can't do that, honestly, I believe your theory is full of more than just holes. It would really become then just an undereducated opinion.

i would propose a theory that geomancy is a secret that masons have been keeping knowledge of secret for a few millinea.

Based on what, exactly? A random selection? Tell you what, how about my local grocer is using an ancient form of natural, earth harmony science and divination to coerse me into buying the more expensive cereal?

geomancy is actually the science of harnessing energy from the earth, through geometry and placements of structures, and sending out this energy in the from of spiritual vibrations.

Divination by means of lines and figures or by geographic features.

Source
This is from an online dictionary. I have another right here on my desk. It says roughly the same thing. Nothing in there about mind control or spiritual vibrations. Oddly, there is quite a bit about divination, which you have repeatedly claimed is just how we see it today. This just must be more of those pesky Masons altering definitions of widely accepted terms again...

so, in affect, geomancy can be brainwashing, if your goal is to influence people into being submissive. or if you influence them to stay spiritualy barren.

Still don't see how you are coming to this conclusion. Let us say, for the sake of argument only, that you could somehow create a monument in perfect tune to the frequency and vibrations of the human mind. How then to manufacture what is sent through those vibrations? The concept of messages passed through vibrations, even subliminal, is not something I believe you are readily able to prove. Again, I ask for proof, not speculation. I don't need you to prove the validity and fact of what you are saying, but merely support your hypothesis. All you've put forth so far is, "Well, what if?" That just doesn't really make for a solid argument. What if my mailbox is controlling my love life? What if my shoe size determines my favorite pizza topping? See what I mean?

[edit on 13-8-2006 by EdenKaia]

Actually, most of us are here for the other forums. This just happens to be one we know something about, and can contribute to.

Pfffff dont make me laugh , if I do a search on any of you it will show up what threads you really post on, your here for only one reason, I should make a list to prove my point with what masons are really accesing on this forum, you only come on this forum to dodge the bashing and you well know it.
You dont even enter this forum as people, you enter it as masons, so it figures, look at your avart, look at your names, masonic student, masonic light, plus the avarts man the avarts gives you away
maybe I will make that list and post it, hey it's a conspiracy theory forum so I can do that I think it's a conspiracy.
should I search for what masonic light posted on to see if he even has 1 single post that has nothing to do with masonic dogma
You guys are hilarios hahahaha

pepsi78, just click his name to see what threads he has started
takes you to this page
most of which seem to of masionic nature
i dont see the big deal though, freemasons have been around for hundreds of years but society evolved without them so they really dont matter in the grand scheme of things
(the society, not the people, the people mattered and made many contributions)

it wasnt until the 20th century that we attained flight and less than 50 years later went to space, our technology has been taking off rapidly for the past 200 years, the masons have been around in one incarnation or another for over a thousand years, if they were responsble for our current state then we'd be colonizing mars by now.

the masons are just a boyscouts club for grown men
they have no real power
forbidden (misunderstood) knowledge of things is not power, it's just interesting

[example]
take the example of the book/movie the "da vinci code"
suposedly the secret that jesus was married and had a kid which spawned a bloodline that has been kept secret throughout history is a secret that the catholic church has killed to keep quite because it is so powerful that it would cause the church to collapse if it were exposed

that's just nonsense, if jesus had a kid i'd say right on
where is it a sin to be married and have a kid?
point it out in the 10 commandments for me.
[/example]

that is the kind of "secret knowledge" the masons possess that makes them "powerful"

in the real world it has little to no value at all and would not change much of anything
in their minds, with this knowledge they can rule the world

just picture some kids playing D&D, rolling dice and casting spells
none of it's real, but it's fun, and that's why they do it
same thing with the masons

Originally posted by pepsi78
should I search for what masonic light posted on to see if he even has 1 single post that has nothing to do with masonic dogma

It shouldn't be too surprising that someone with the user name "Masonic Light" posts primarily on Masonic subjects. That's obviously an area of particular interest to him (me, too for that matter) I'm not really interested in katrina conspiracies, oil company conspiracies or Pamela Andersons varying bra-sizes.

Originally posted by wondernut
it wasnt until the 20th century that we attained flight and less than 50 years later went to space,

True, but then again, both the Wright Brothers, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and several other astronauts were Masons. Makes you wonder. :p

the masons are just a boyscouts club for grown men
they have no real power
forbidden (misunderstood) knowledge of things is not power, it's just interesting

I wish that other people could understand that. We're Masons because we enjoy being Masons. We're not in a plot to overthrow the government or take over the world. It's just (as you said) interesting. Period.

just picture some kids playing D&D, rolling dice and casting spells
none of it's real, but it's fun, and that's why they do it same thing with the masons

Yep. It is fun. It's not for everyone, any more than playing golf or watching sports on TV is for everyone (who'd have EVER guessed that Poker would become a spectator sport???!!!) Talk about BORING

But, you've summed it up rather nicely. Masons are Masons because we enjoy being Masons. We practice old-fashioned, out-of-date ceremonies, pretending they're tip-top secret, study some history (King Solomon's Temple, the Knights Templar, the Crusades, etc.) pay some bills, eat a cold sandwich, drink some aluminum-flavored coffee and go home.

I sure hope we never do take over the world. With my luck, I'd be made Benevolent Dictator of Northwest Central South Dakota.

it wasnt until the 20th century that we attained flight and less than 50 years later went to space, our technology has been taking off rapidly for the past 200 years, the masons have been around in one incarnation or another for over a thousand years, if they were responsble for our current state then we'd be colonizing mars by now.

Actually several people writing about the alien presence and other things the government hides say we do have a base on mars... and the moon.

the masons are just a boyscouts club for grown men
they have no real power
forbidden (misunderstood) knowledge of things is not power, it's just interesting

I truly hope your right.

[example]
take the example of the book/movie the "da vinci code"
suposedly the secret that jesus was married and had a kid which spawned a bloodline that has been kept secret throughout history is a secret that the catholic church has killed to keep quite because it is so powerful that it would cause the church to collapse if it were exposed

that's just nonsense, if jesus had a kid i'd say right on
where is it a sin to be married and have a kid?
point it out in the 10 commandments for me.
[/example]

actually since some people trace the masons back to the knights templar, even some of the masons say they came from the templar. the templar supposedly came from the marovingian, who held the secret that jesus was not divine in the since that he was a physical incarnation of god anyway... but imagine if you will that having this knowledge, they went to the catholic church and blackmailed them, so that the church would fund the crusade... they would be puppets to the templar for fear of the church collapsing, and losing all that money. i don't know it makes since to me how you could easily have a lot of leverage with information like that.

that is the kind of "secret knowledge" the masons possess that makes them "powerful"

that might be a part of it... but they also obviously have a lot of occult knowledge and estoric teachings... magic can be powerful thing, not nescessarily a bad thing mind you but if you have THAT kind of ancient knowledge i bet you could be one powerful wizard. the symbology that they use is not nescessarily evil in and of itself, but it definately shows a lot of magical significance.

in the real world it has little to no value at all and would not change much of anything
in their minds, with this knowledge they can rule the world

just picture some kids playing D&D, rolling dice and casting spells
none of it's real, but it's fun, and that's why they do it
same thing with the masons

i hate to tell you this but magic is a very real thing. i can't just tell you it exists and make you believe it though, its one of those things you have to see for yourself. they, like i myself are magicians. the difference being i don't affect people's free will, so i would call myself a white magician, but i think they are using black magic. again i'm not expecting you just to take my word for it though. so if you can't stomach that its ok. a year ago i wouldn't have listened either.

anyway, i could speculate for days and days really, but thats all most of it is in the forums, that's all there really can be in here. just accept what feels like its true to you. but know at the same time that until ALL of them are exposed we can't know for sure.

Hexrain,
While this continuous drivel about how nothing can be proven on ATS is all very interesting, I would still love a response to my post on Geomancy. I don't believe you can assume the Masons are tied to this particular craft when you obviously don't seem to know what it is about. I watch you cry in outrage at others here for not addressing you on Geomancy. I have been attempting this for some time now, and without answer. As you have asked, I have answered. Is completely ignoring people your way of refusing to admit your fallibility? Your views on Geomancy are skewed. I've said it. I say this not to attack you, but to call you out based on what you've stated on the subject before. Prove me wrong, or stop harping about it. Either way, it'd be nice to not see the same rehashed response from you post after post. My time is more valuable than that. I am more than happy to discuss these issues with you, but you have to be prepared to actually work for it. This, "there is no way to prove anything" jive you continue to spew is nonsense. Put up or back up. Simple as that.

Originally posted by hexrain1
Actually several people writing about the alien presence and other things the government hides say we do have a base on mars... and the moon.

THAT'S NOT EVEN WORTH A RESPONSE
(originally this was left blank but i felt the need to add it as most people would not understand the lack of a response being an intentional insult to the idiotic comment)

I truly hope your right.

see the mason's post a few up from this one for his approval of what i said

actually since some people trace the masons back to the knights templar, even some of the masons say they came from the templar. the templar supposedly came from the marovingian, who held the secret that jesus was not divine in the since that he was a physical incarnation of god anyway... but imagine if you will that having this knowledge, they went to the catholic church and blackmailed them, so that the church would fund the crusade... they would be puppets to the templar for fear of the church collapsing, and losing all that money. i don't know it makes since to me how you could easily have a lot of leverage with information like that.

leverage like what?
it's so farfetched that noone will believe it anyways!
if no one will believe it then there is no leverage.
and the templars were formed to protect those traveling to the holyland from the assassans who were formed to kill those traveling to the holy land

that might be a part of it... but they also obviously have a lot of occult knowledge and estoric teachings... magic can be powerful thing, not nescessarily a bad thing mind you but if you have THAT kind of ancient knowledge i bet you could be one powerful wizard. the symbology that they use is not nescessarily evil in and of itself, but it definately shows a lot of magical significance.

yes, because magic so really works and psychics win the lottery every day!
i have been hexed, love spells cast on me, cursed, and jinxed
oddly enough i have the best "luck" out of all the people i know
why? because i do not believe in superstition and as such do not let self-fulfilling prophesy fulfill themselves
as i said, in the real world it has little to no value at all and would not change much of anything
in their minds(as in not really but let's pretend), with this knowledge they can rule the world


just picture some kids playing D&D, rolling dice and casting spells
none of it's real, but it's fun, and that's why they do it
same thing with the masons

i hate to tell you this but magic is a very real thing. i can't just tell you it exists and make you believe it though, its one of those things you have to see for yourself. they, like i myself are magicians. the difference being i don't affect people's free will, so i would call myself a white magician, but i think they are using black magic. again i'm not expecting you just to take my word for it though. so if you can't stomach that its ok. a year ago i wouldn't have listened either.

my best friend growing up got into occult things
he now considers himself a "pure evil"
back in middleschool i was his guneapig for his magic spells and such
i was cursed, jinxed, lovespelled, and various other enchantments

girls were still just as repulsed by me, i still had good luck at everything both before and after, i never got picked on, and i still had toruble sleeping when he cast sleep spells on me

the kid even got his hands on some belladonna/nightshade
now that i'll agree works as it is a posion and i didn't try it because i knew as such
turns out the majority of "magic" concoctions such as healing potions work because they have tomato and hot peppers in them
essencially the same reason people who eat spicy foods rarely get sick, it's the makeup of the ingredents, not the magic that makes it work

magic only works on people that want to believe in it because of the faith portion of your brain
the very same portion of the brain that makes placebo medications (sugar pills) cure headaches
want to buy some snake oil?

anyway, i could speculate for days and days really, but thats all most of it is in the forums, that's all there really can be in here. just accept what feels like its true to you. but know at the same time that until ALL of them are exposed we can't know for sure.

you do realize you are paraphrasing aleister crowley right?
"...and do what tho wilt shall be the whole of the law..."
btw, he's primarially responsible for starting the organizations that spawned your pseudo religious beliefs, guess what, he was a mason...

you really should not reveal yourself as an occultist if you are talking against them, because in reality they "made" what you believe in.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by wondernut]

Originally posted by EdenKaia
Hexrain,
While this continuous drivel about how nothing can be proven on ATS is all very interesting, I would still love a response to my post on Geomancy. I don't believe you can assume the Masons are tied to this particular craft when you obviously don't seem to know what it is about. I watch you cry in outrage at others here for not addressing you on Geomancy. I have been attempting this for some time now, and without answer. As you have asked, I have answered. Is completely ignoring people your way of refusing to admit your fallibility? Your views on Geomancy are skewed. I've said it. I say this not to attack you, but to call you out based on what you've stated on the subject before. Prove me wrong, or stop harping about it. Either way, it'd be nice to not see the same rehashed response from you post after post. My time is more valuable than that. I am more than happy to discuss these issues with you, but you have to be prepared to actually work for it. This, "there is no way to prove anything" jive you continue to spew is nonsense. Put up or back up. Simple as that.

so what was your question about geomancy, i can't find it in the above threads. re-state it and i'll try my best to answer it.

My question is, where are you getting these statements from? Half of what you've posted is completely untrue. Is this "new" geomancy something you've created and given the same name as an art that has long existed as something else, or are you actually just confused about what Geomancy really is? I've explained it above, for as you have pointed out once before, you don't know much about it. I've studied the art for some time, and I just can't seem to find any of the stuff you are spouting. I know you don't like to hear "prove it", for whatever reason, but this is something you can't just throw off to "it's my personal experience". Show me a link, a definition that I can reference myself online or in a book. Something, anything would suffice.

Masons hide since they discovered welth , they are the modern templar nights, and since the crusades made them welthy by discovering the trejure chest in one of the temples every thing became a secret.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Masons hide since they discovered welth , they are the modern templar nights, and since the crusades made them welthy by discovering the trejure chest in one of the temples every thing became a secret.

Alright, you're contradicting yourself. The Templar Knights are the ones who supposedly found fortune in the Temple of Solomon. So how is it that the Masons are modern day Templars when you just said it is they who discovered the treasure? Are you just saying, quite confusedly, that they are one in the same? If so, how would the Masons be a modern day version, if they are the Templars?

you are confusing your self, or trying to confuse others, there is a strong connection betwen the templars and masons, templars made the discovery in the solomon temple, later they were disbanded by the pope, they came out today as the masons, there is plenty of evidence for that.

thank you pepsi78 for admitting the obvious to those who would deny its existance... oh and eden kai here's a scientific paper, that relates to the kind of geomancy i've been describing, i'll try to find more for you.

twm.co.nz/torscons.htm

Originally posted by pepsi78
you are confusing your self, or trying to confuse others, there is a strong connection betwen the templars and masons, templars made the discovery in the solomon temple, later they were disbanded by the pope, they came out today as the masons, there is plenty of evidence for that.

I know what I said. It was just the way you phrased your post I found interesting. And I wouldn't say there were so much disbanded by the Pope, but rather tortured and eliminated. People would confess to anything under conditions like that.

(nah...I changed my mind) It was just TOO easy.

[edit on 15-8-2006 by Appak]

Hexrain1 why don't you just admit that you now enjoy the company of the Masons and you now realize we aren't the bad people you were lead to believe we were (or that we WANT you to think we are LOL)

Cory

I know what I said. It was just the way you phrased your post I found interesting. And I wouldn't say there were so much disbanded by the Pope, but rather tortured and eliminated. People would confess to anything under conditions like that.

what in the world are you talking about, confes to what, did I even bring things up, I see you are already self defending
Were you afraid that I would bring up the fact that the brotherhood of the templars was disbanded due to acusations of worshiping kinky stuf

Originally posted by pepsi78

I know what I said. It was just the way you phrased your post I found interesting. And I wouldn't say there were so much disbanded by the Pope, but rather tortured and eliminated. People would confess to anything under conditions like that.

what in the world are you talking about, confes to what, did I even bring things up, I see you are already self defending

Were you afraid that I would bring up the fact that the brotherhood of the templars was disbanded due to acusations of worshiping kinky stuf

You are obviously confused. Let me clarify this for you. The Catholic Church was in a financial bind. The Pope then asked the Templars for a loan, which was refused. King Philip had also acquisitioned to become a member, which was also refused. It was from this that such torture and foul accusations arose. Philip needed all the confessions he could get to justify the arrests, which is what I am referring to in my above post--The Knights would have confessed to anything under conditions like that.
But here is the important part, the part that all of you Mason and Templar bashers seem to always leave out. It was the Church that was persecuting the Templars, and then later, you have this:

In modern times, it is the Roman Catholic Church's position that the persecution was unjust; that there was nothing inherently wrong with the Order or its Rule; and that the Pope at the time was severely pressured into suppressing them by the magnitude of the public scandal and the dominating influence of King Philip IV.

Source

If the people actually performing the torture and slinging the accusations are now saying they were unjust and completely unfounded, then why cant you? Or is it just some weak thread to cling to when you have nothing else? Hearsay is dangerous, my friend. Learn that now. As I said, it is you who seem to have gotten confused.

Originally posted by hexrain1
thank you pepsi78 for admitting the obvious to those who would deny its existance... oh and eden kai here's a scientific paper, that relates to the kind of geomancy i've been describing, i'll try to find more for you.

twm.co.nz/torscons.htm

There are many interesting experiments there, and rightly so. The Pyramid has long been associated with an accompaniment to nature. There is a prevailant theory that the triangle is actually the primary shape in the universe, and that eventually all things will come to harmonize with this shape. The Egyptians were aware of this syncronization of nature and Pyramids, it is one of the reasons(though less practical than the pure size and stature) they were used so predominantly.
However, now we get into the meat of it. Your examples earlier were not for a Pyramid, a widely accepted shape in Geomancy renowned for its harmonic attributes, but rather an Obelisk. And your claim wasn't on the effect of the Obelisk on the atoms composing its own superstructure, but rather its effects on items of the same ilk as those placed within it. I can accept a Pyramids effect on objects placed within them for a length of time, as this theory has been proven with many legitimate tests, but not an Obelisk, and never on an item outside of the Pyramid just because it was similar to the one inside.
Very interesting site hexrain, I commend you for the link. I don't see how it supports your hypothesis, however.