Masons: 2 things I KNOW they're hiding

I love the response that if your not part of the inner circle then you don't know that truth. That is the easiest way for them to say what they want without it being slanderous.

If I went out and called someone a pedaphile without proof I would be brought to court for damaging a persons reputation but these people come here and call a group satanists, pedaphiles, thieves or whatever.

Masons aren't bad guys, it's just like saying all jews are evil, or all christians are evil, or all muslims are evil.
Some people probably in high places ARE evil.
And i think that is the point Hexrain1 is trying to make, could be better put though, but still, and that's why he said that you probably would not know about it.
Cause why would we?
Why would we know if the pope or some arabic priest or some world leader or even people we never even heard of but are there are evil, why the F would they tell us?
Just something to you mason guys, just don't feel attacked, nobody is attacking you, or your beliefs, at least not me, there are just some people who will take advantage of everything, like riots at a soccer game, not ALL supporters are hooligans, but some people take advantage of something, and that is true of everything.
It is calleD: corruption

Actually, most of us are here for the other forums. This just happens to be one we know something about, and can contribute to.

People in the military can respond to rumors of area 51, but as a whole they don't, not like you guys. you guys a rolling in a pack jumping down everyone's throat who raises suspision.

I find it interesting to see how many masons frequent these forums. All the posts I've seen by them try to discredit information given by those who raise questions about the society.

There are many of us in society. Wouldn't that mean a fair number of us find our way here?

I dont't believe in conciedences, being men of god which you claim to be, why then is a good half the posts in here from masons. in the political forums half the posts are not from polititians. why would you suggest this is true? oh, you just all happen to be regularly frequenting this forum, which according to you is all rubbish anyway, and spending tons of time debating me, who you say is wrong. something is strange here.

If someone called you a paedophile, would you not take issue with that?

No I would not. Because it's not true. It's like when you were a kid and you broke your mother's lamp. When she came and told you it broke you immediatly said "IT WASNT ME". It's along the same lines.

If there was no conspiracy, why are there so many masons on these forums trying to defend masonry from these claims.

Perhaps because we love our craft, and don't appreciate folks lying about it. Or being falsely accused of being paedophiles.

I understand this might be true. I'm not saying I'm infallible, I'm just stating what I believe to be truth.

If someone insults me, I dont stand there to tell them why they are wrong for insulting me, I walk away because its not true.

I doubt that highly. No, I'm betting more you'd get in their face, sputtering something incoherant, and threatening a fistfight.

You obviously don't know me. I would never start violence for something that someone said or did. I turn the other cheek. You fight hate with love, not more hate.

Now, on the subject of what they are hiding from us I know two things. These are instances where the information has been first hand, or at most second hand, so I wouldn't call it heresay.

Ok, dude... your friend is jerking you around, having a laugh at your expense. Or at least, that would be the case, if your friend existed (which I doubt).

your lack of sympathy proves my point. I looked straight into my friends face and looked at his eyes. He was DEAD serious. I don't care if masons admit to a ring of paedophilia or not, which of course they won't. I simply want to inform people. I have no reason to lie to a bunch of people about what i've seen. no one in here knows my name. but to those who are interested i'm not going to hold back the truth. again, i am not a liar and neither is my friend.

If there was a shred of proof that masons had molested a child, in this day and age, folks would be up in arms over it... if for no other reason than paedophiles sell newspapers and get TV viewers to watch the news. But look... there aren't.

What does that tell you?

It tells me that you guys are very good at hiding things. your a SECRET SOCIETY, yet you claim there are no secrets hidden from the general public or within your own ranks. seems like one heck of a contradiction to me.


BTW I never claimed that ALL masons are evil. Everyone is an individual. except when your brainwashed to follow orders. but that's beside the point. I'm not discreminating against all masons... but none of them admit to any wrongdoing so i have to generalize as a matter of convenience. Excuse me if I come of as a biggot for I am not. I simply wish that poeple had this inform

[edit on 5-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Originally posted by hexrain1
I find it interesting to see how many masons frequent these forums.

I think its great. There probably isn't anywhere else on the internet, and certainly nowhere in the real world, where you can have consistently high level discussions between the most ardent anti-masons and involved freemasons.

All the posts I've seen by them try to discredit information given by those who raise questions about the society.

Well, not for nothing, but IF most of the charges against them are, as far as they know, incorrect, why shouldn't they dispell those myths or show that that information is wrong?
I mean, why would you want people to 'shut up and keep quite'??

If there was no conspiracy, why are there so many masons on these forums trying to defend masonry from these claims.

I'd think that they want to engage in discussion. I doubt that they often get the oppurtunity to talk about the things that they can talk about here. They're not here simply to 'defend masonry'; they pretty obviously love the whacky and wild converstations that go on here. Where else can a person have a discussion about the history of Pike's involvement in the KKK, or debate the similarities between Masonry and OTO and how they are perceived by the general public, etc etc.

If someone insults me, I dont stand there to tell them why they are wrong for insulting me, I walk away because its not true.

Really? You run away when someone insults you? Not everyone does that. Why suggest that there must be a conspiracy, some organized plot to have 'masonic defenders' populate this forum? You don't think its possible that the regulars here just like and enjoy the discussions??? That they find it at times fun and at times enlightening, like anyone else here??

These are instances where the information has been first hand, or at most second hand, so I wouldn't call it heresay.

FWIW, second hand information is heresay. Anything not directly observed by yourself is heresay.

Afterwards the members could "pick" a child. I would rather not go into details, as my freind did not either. They molested him.

What school?
What years did this happen?
Who molested him?
Why didn't he report it (of course, often abuse goes un-reported)

When our forefathers came to this country (many being masons) they built masonic lodges on top of these sites.

Which lodges are on native sacred sites?
A person can say that a ley-line exists anywhere, there is no objective way to determine where one is.

Ancient Dionyssus-Bacchus cults, mostly women, used to used geomancy

Which bacchic rite involved geomancy?

An oblelisk, used for focusing earth's energy on top of leylines were built, with the crops growing around it radially.

...
This is not geomancy. And, again, the idea of ley-lines is just something that was made up in the modern era. There is nothing indicating that the ancients sought out and used 'leylines'. MOderns identity so-called 'ley lines' by simply drawing lines through ancient holy sites.

If there was a weed in the fields causing harm they would take a specimen burn it and put it in the obelisk.

?
What obelisks were found to be store houses?

Supposedly, this influenced the other weeds to likewise suffer and eventually die.

Not only does that not make sense, it clearly doesn't work.

Cities today are all built radially, as most have been in america, centering on a town hall or simalar building. usually they are taller than surrounding structures.

And you think that this requires an occultic explanation? That the best explanation for cities growing out of a center is a conspiracy of masons who've directed the building and growth of cities throughout the US for many generations?

In Tempe, Arizona, I saw a symbol on what I think was an office building. It was a symetrical 6 pointed lotus blossom, but instead of the botoom lotus petal there was a down pointing arrow split in half.

And?
Thats clearly not the 'flower of life' referenced below. Was the building a masonic lodge? What does it have to do with what you are talking about?

The goal of Kabbalah is to ascend to god, so pointing down would suggest moving farther away from god.

So the people that built that building are secret devil-worshipers???

Malkut (earth) is the material realm, therefore focusing on that is focusing on materialism, as opposed to spirituality. I translate this to mean they are trying to keep us asleep,

...
"They" are the masons? Was the building even a lodge? And why overlay the sefiroth on the symbol with the down arrow? I mean, do we really even need to put it on a sefiroth in order to note that it points down anyway?

Originally posted by hexrain1
you dont see that many military officers in the area 51 forums trying to claim there is no area 51. there arent many polititians in the politcal conspiracy forums trying to dispute conspiracy claims. thats because they dont think they are true,

Or perhaps its because they know its true and don't want to feed the conspiracy. Are you actually suggesting that there is no Area 51 conspiracy or no political conspiracies?

there are a LOT of masons in this forum for some reason.

Its a forum about secret socieities. You are surprised that there are members of secret socieities here?
On other boards, where masons are either kicked out or made the subject of abuse, the claim is that their absence supports there being a conspiracy.

I'm not saying what the symbols mean to other cultures, im talking about what they meant in the context of what i saw.

No, you are talking about them in other cultures, you took the flower with an arrow symbol and tried to interpret it in terms of the jewish kabbalah, you took it out of its context, which was as a logo on a building, and put it into another one.

If there was a masonic conspiracy they would not tell most people in the organization

And yet you've said that the masonic youth groups are run by and for pedophiles.

there is probably few who know the true purpose

According to you there are thousands.

, i simply want others to know the truth. if your just going to try and dispute claims that you yourself said you cant prove or disprove, THEN WHY ARE YOU EVEN IN THIS FORUM?

Why are YOU in this forum, if you are not here to have a discussion? THis is a discussion forum. No one needs you to 'reveal the truth' to them.

Why suggest that there must be a conspiracy, some organized plot to have 'masonic defenders' populate this forum? You don't think its possible that the regulars here just like and enjoy the discussions??? That they find it at times fun and at times enlightening, like anyone else here??

I understand this may be the case. but it does seem fishy the number and aggressiveness of there presence in these forums.

These are instances where the information has been first hand, or at most second hand, so I wouldn't call it heresay.

FWIW, second hand information is heresay. Anything not directly observed by yourself is heresay.

dually noted. I guess it is heresay but i trust then friend enough to take the responsiblity of its truthfulness on myself.

Afterwards the members could "pick" a child. I would rather not go into details, as my freind did not either. They molested him.

What school?
What years did this happen?
Who molested him?
Why didn't he report it (of course, often abuse goes un-reported)

A masonic school in either houston or austin texas, i can't remember exactly.
It probably happened somewhere between 30-35 years ago give or take.
As far I i know, which again he didnt go into detail, it was one person who molested him, although several of the people who would sit in on the meetings would "pick" out a child, he said. So i imagine that it was several people doing this in all, but not different people doing these things to him individually.
I don't know why he didn't report it. I have never been molested, but I imagine he was scared. after seing several authority figures participating in this, he probably thought it wouldn't do any good. Sometimes probably don't even understand whats going on (molestation) if theyre too young.

When our forefathers came to this country (many being masons) they built masonic lodges on top of these sites.

Which lodges are on native sacred sites?
A person can say that a ley-line exists anywhere, there is no objective way to determine where one is.

I would think most if not all are focused on these sacred sites, but there's no map of the native americans country before we came so its anyones guess whether its true.

Supposedly, this influenced the other weeds to likewise suffer and eventually die.

Not only does that not make sense, it clearly doesn't work.

again, everything with mass vibrates at a certain frequency. other things that vibrate at that same frequency can affect that object. its called resonance. take two tunning forks that vibrate at the same frequency. place them together. now ring one, the other starts to resonate, or vibrate at that frequency without being struck. it works the same way, except with living things, you get into a part science that doesn't exist. I think vibrations can affect a persons mood, health, and a host of other subtle things that science does not recognize. If your asking me to prove "magic" your asking to much. I'm just giving you my input, not trying to change your paradigm.

Cities today are all built radially, as most have been in america, centering on a town hall or simalar building. usually they are taller than surrounding structures.

And you think that this requires an occultic explanation? That the best explanation for cities growing out of a center is a conspiracy of masons who've directed the building and growth of cities throughout the US for many generations?

I agree. Masons had a large hand in the planning of city layouts from the very beggining. I think there is a reason for this. I'm simply offering an explanation for this deliberate layout.

Thats clearly not the 'flower of life' referenced below. Was the building a masonic lodge?

It is one circle in the flower, modified to express how they want to influence people.

"They" are the masons? Was the building even a lodge? And why overlay the sefiroth on the symbol with the down arrow? I mean, do we really even need to put it on a sefiroth in order to note that it points down anyway?

The building was not a lodge but it was made of stone. they are "STONEmasons" so anything built with stone they probably still oversee it. you overlay the sephirot to know WHAT the arrow is pointing to. if it was the top petal pointing to the center it would be pointing to the sphere of "foundation" which is above the material realm.

So the people that built that building are secret devil-worshipers???

no. the fact that it's decending is not in anyway proving devil worship. I hate when people discuss the occult. people jump to conclusions that every form of occult knowledge is devil-worship. I'm saying they are suggesting descendence instead of ascendence. This simply means seperation from god. when your seperated from god it doesn't automatically mean you worship the devil. It just means that you do not experience god on the spiritual level. And im not even suggesting that masons are descending the sephirot in spirituality, only that the persuade the populous to do so.

[edit on 5-8-2006 by hexrain1]

[edit on 5-8-2006 by hexrain1]

Just out of interest hexrain, did your friend go to the police about this abuse? Or have you advised him to? I know it's a long time ago but a case can still be investigated.

Personally i'd go along that route instead of spreading the word that mason's are involved in paedophilia. Let the courts decide, not a conspiracy forum, half of whom it's clear accuse masons of everything and anything.

I think it's only going to be so long before someone is done for slander with this sort of thing.

Btw, no i'm not a mason.

CX.

Originally posted by CX
Just out of interest hexrain, did your friend go to the police about this abuse? Or have you advised him to? I know it's a long time ago but a case can still be investigated.

Personally i'd go along that route instead of spreading the word that mason's are involved in paedophilia. Let the courts decide, not a conspiracy forum, half of whom it's clear accuse masons of everything and anything.

I think it's only going to be so long before someone is done for slander with this sort of thing.

Btw, no i'm not a mason.

CX.

No he has not gone to the police as far as i know. the statute of limitations has probably come and went as well. plus, there are judges, police, prosecutors, etc that are masons. and if there really is a conspiracy, then all of them would work together to rig court hearings. So going to the authorities might get the people who accused silenced, or killed. No thanks. I think this is the safest way to inform people of the goings on in the masonic world.

Originally posted by hexrain1
If you were of the group of the elite, you would know.

Which begs the question...since YOU obviously are NOTG "of the group of the elite" how do YOU, a NON-MASON know? Hm?

Or you might just straight up be lying,

As might you be, right?

they are in power.

How do you know that? Where's your documentation.

MANY of the people in high places in government are members of the masons, or related organizations.

Certainly. Many people who are genuinely interested in the future of their respective cities, counties, states and the good 'ol U.S.A. are also interested in charity and help for ones fellow human-beings (which is one of the things for which Masonry exists)

Again, if there were "higher ups" then if your not a part of them you wouldnt know anything about them. just because you don't know it to exist doesnt mean it doesnt.

Right! So let us just proclaim that they DO exist, even though there's not one iota of evidence to prove it. [sigh]

Also im not wanting to debate with masons, i simply want others to know the truth.

The truth as YOU see it, despite it's one-sidedness, right? You see this is a DISCUSSION forum. DISCUSSION. We DISCUSS here. We don't post some half-baked "fact" and expect the ignorant masses to bow down and say "Oh! I see the truth now." Believe it or not Hexrain, there are still people who like to think for themselves. And there are people who choose not to believe something simply because someone told them it's true. Particularly when it involves active members of an organization (viz. Freemasonry) coming from someone who is NOT (and it would appear has never been) a Freemason. See?

if your just going to try and dispute claims that you yourself said you cant prove or disprove, THEN WHY ARE YOU EVEN IN THIS FORUM?

The vast majority of us are here for DISCUSSION (see above). Some however, it seems, are here to spew accusations and half-truths and expect everyone to take them as fact.

If you're going to debate with me however, which you probably feel obligated to do, bieng of the organization i say these things about, then give me answers that arent indirect.

Pardon me, but I didn't see that you asked any questions. You just made accusations against people you don't even know.

I notice you didn't dispute the fact about lodges being built on native american sacred places.

I dispute it right here and now. In fact I'll state it as if I were you.

Masonic Lodges are NOT built on native american sacred places.

Prove to me that I'm wrong and I'll gladly retract that statement.

Originally posted by hexrain1
When our forefathers came to this country (many being masons) they built masonic lodges on top of these sites.

As did the early worshipers of the divine mother earth, followed by the Romans, and every other conqueror to come after. It is no secret that "location is everything". The Romans knew they could gain the attention of the populace by erecting monuments on their sacred sites. For them, this was a measure of control, and a good one. But you must understand, this same concept could not be applied here. The vast majority of Americans are Christian. So, to build a Masonic monument on the site of an ancient leyline or "sacred site" wouldn't necessarily serve the purpose of "my god is better than yours" agenda that served the Romans so well into making the people submit. After all, if their gods were just going to stand by and let Apollo and his crew run the show in their temple, then they must be more powerful. Right?
Geomancy is originally just the influence and manipulation of nature in the daily lives of the populace. It began as simple cave dwellers learning that the placement of fire in a particular place gave them certain advantages over whatever might venture inside. It grew from this. But what advantage would a Mason have in placing a building on a site believed to once hold power by the people? The only purpose this would serve is becoming the new figure head of the people you were trying to control. But if the people no longer care about these ancient sacred sites, what was the point?

Cities today are all built radially, as most have been in america, centering on a town hall or simalar building. usually they are taller than surrounding structures.

As farming became a commercial enterprise, once crops exceeded the needs of the individual tribe or community, tribes traded with one another for goods not produced within the boundaries of their own regions. Thus was born the town and the trading of goods and services. Commerce was now an important part of life, and so placement of the community center or Town Square was important as well. At this point, geomancy found its way into the development of early towns and communities. The central region being where the community congregated, usually honored by a pole or standing stone or statues honoring the community’s presiding deity.

I believe something like this is what you trying to get at. But again, what is your point? A central meeting place is vital to the survival of any large congregation of people. It promotes social stimulation and growth. This is where geomancy places a part; in setting up your material structures to best mirror that of the NATURAL world. How does Freemasonry fit into this?

It is one circle in the flower, modified to express how they want to influence people.

Alright, here is the flower. Explain.


[edit on 5-8-2006 by EdenKaia]

i think my own experiences are a way better source to post than some conspiracy theory website that says the same old thing that everyone has heard before, more possible disinformation.

REPLY: No.... I'm not a Mason. So, you're using your (heresay) experience, and posting them on a conspiracy website, and spreading.... in your words..... "more possible disinformation" .... which means you're saying the same old thing many have said before. Talk about circular logic...

then overlay the sephirot from kabbalah onto that. Now if the symbol was laid on top of that, it would be pointing down to Malkut

REPLY: If you take two equilateral triangles of the same size, then turn one of them 180 degrees, and place it, centered, upon the other........ it might mean?????

My posts are strictly motivated from the point of trying to correct mis-information, or countering outright lies.

REPLY: Seems like he gave you a rather direct answer.

it just might be that some really sick people have leaked into a society that prides itself on having good men,

REPLY: You could be describing the Boy Scouts, too. Those perverts are everywhere.

you'll find more than "a few" masons written about in news stories that have been arrested for a multitude of crimes.

REPLY: Of course you will, if you look at sites who only looks for specific stories. I'll bet if you go to a site that pertains only to.... say.... dog training, you'll find LOTS of stories there about that subject.

rotary, lions club, fraternal order of police, etc. any secret society

REPLY: You think all those are "secret" societies? HA HA HA HA HA

why then is a good half the posts in here from masons. in the political forums half the posts are not from polititians.

REPLY: What a rediculous argument.

You fight hate with love, not more hate.

REPLY: You REALLY need to get that information to Lebanon, Iran and Palestine.

but it does seem fishy the number and aggressiveness of there presence in these forums.

REPLY: Do you not realise that you, also, could fit into that category? Of course you dont't.

Cities today are all built radially, as most have been in america,

REPLY: So..... common sense in design and layout, as it pertains to logistics, traffic, housing etc, is some sort of issue??

and if there really is a conspiracy, then all of them would work together to rig court hearings.

REPLY: Considering the number of these cases that have been in the news for the past twenty years, this would not seem to be correct.

I believe something like this is what you trying to get at. But again, what is your point? A central meeting place is vital to the survival of any large congregation of people. It promotes social stimulation and growth. This is where geomancy places a part; in setting up your material structures to best mirror that of the NATURAL world. How does Freemasonry fit into this?

Nope you missed my point, although i didnt really go into explaining the science behind geomancy in that statement. i apologize.

The cities are built out radially (from a tall center point) so that they are all encompassed in these vibrations that are sent out. in geomancy the obelisk work as a channeler and transmitter of energy and vibrations. they resonate at the same frequency as the earth therefore using the energy of the earths vibration. thats why they are placed on leylines, where the earths energy pools, if you will. then the obelisks transmit whatever vibration is sent out by the focus (i.e. pesky weed) to RADIATE outward in a circle. like when you throw a rock in a pond. so the influences travel in wavelike patterns out, affecting anything tuned to the same vibration.

It is one circle in the flower, modified to express how they want to influence people.

Alright, here is the flower. Explain.


[edit on 5-8-2006 by EdenKaia]

www.ka-gold-jewelry.com...

second picture down. the farthest symbol to the left. this is what the symbol i saw was based on. its a single circle with only some of the lines fleshed out. i believe its called the seed of life.

www.halexandria.org...

scroll down to the 3rd or 4th picture of the sephirot ovelaid on the flower.

[edit on 5-8-2006 by hexrain1]

What I find funny is if the Mason's didnt post to defend themselves then the argument would be hey look they shut up now. no matter how you look at it HexRain1 you would be arguing one of the two.

Also i am no mason but if i belonged to a group and was called a pedophile no i wouldnt go silent being silent doesnt get you anywhere having a voice gets you somewhere.

Also i am wondering earlier in the thread someone said you sounded like someone who was banned and you made no comment but you did manage to quote that very same paragraph are you practicing what you preach about mason's and side stepping that claim.

Originally posted by MadMachinist

Also i am wondering earlier in the thread someone said you sounded like someone who was banned and you made no comment but you did manage to quote that very same paragraph are you practicing what you preach about mason's and side stepping that claim.

well, this illustrates what i said earlier about turning the other cheek. i didn't respond to that guy because it wasn't true. therefore it did not anger me because i know in my heart its not true. i felt no reason to prove my innocence. but since you asked, no im not that guy who got banned. i found these forums just a couple of days ago.

I'm not trying to avoid anyone's questions, but i can't possibly respond to every point that is made. ones that are pertainent i adress. can we get back on topic though instead of bickering? ask me about geomancy. it quite a vague topic as i only know a little about it but i'm glad to try and explain my reasoning, not that you'll get it but at least i'll try.

I found a good movie that seems to tie together alot of freemason/occult/christian and of all things the mayan civilization

The Doomsday Clock - Astronomical Precession and 2012 (David Flynn) (2005)

Originally posted by hexrain1

well, this illustrates what i said earlier about turning the other cheek. i didn't respond to that guy because it wasn't true. therefore it did not anger me because i know in my heart its not true. i felt no reason to prove my innocence.

That's a personal choice that you made, which is fine. Many Masons and non-Mason choose otherwise. Some of us see no reason to have untruths spread and feel the need to speak up. Besides, if no one did, this site would have a great deal of posts saying "The (fill in the organization du jour, but generally the poor Freemasons) are guilty of this and that" with no opposing side. Then there would be no discussion (see my previous reference to the fact that this conspiracy site is for "discussion") It would just be random thoughts from random passers-by.

ask me about geomancy.

OK. Here goes. What about geomancy?

it quite a vague topic as i only know a little about it but i'm glad to try and explain my reasoning

Hmm. You only know a little about it yet you want to be asked about it. Is there someone out there who knows a LOT about it. Perhaps we'd be better off asking that person. I retract my question above. I'm not really interested in your half-vast knowledge of geomancy. Thanks though.

not that you'll get it but at least i'll try.

Interesting little (and I do mean "little") jab there. Is that aimed directly at MadMachinist, whom you feel isn't intelligent enough to understand what you're talking about or do you just imagine yourself to be more intelligent than everyone on this list?

Wow, MadMachinist, I'd feel really bad if I were you

Originally posted by Appak

Originally posted by hexrain1


OK. Here goes. What about geomancy?

it quite a vague topic as i only know a little about it but i'm glad to try and explain my reasoning

Hmm. You only know a little about it yet you want to be asked about it. Is there someone out there who knows a LOT about it. Perhaps we'd be better off asking that person. I retract my question above. I'm not really interested in your half-vast knowledge of geomancy. Thanks though. [/quote

Interesting little (and I do mean "little") jab there. Is that aimed directly at MadMachinist, whom you feel isn't intelligent enough to understand what you're talking about or do you just imagine yourself to be more intelligent than everyone on this list?

Wow, MadMachinist, I'd feel really bad if I were you

actually i didnt mean anything except what i said. you (meaning anyone) might not get it. it's occult knowledge meaning hidden. if it was so easy to believe, prove, etc... more people would know about it or even believe that it exsists. since that is not the case it is a hard thing for people to accept, thats why i'm trying to, despite my limited knowledge of the practice of it, explain it logicaly so its not so hard to stomach. again, maybe you will understand, and look further into the subject, or maybe you think i'm just trying to shove stuff down your throats blindly. this is not my intention, i'm just telling you want i have found out.

also, i think that geomancy is the estoric teaching handed down to the masons for thousands of years. maybe not all of them mind you, but to the ones who have designed and built the stone structures over the century. so see if any of the masons will give you a straight answer as to what it is, i bet they just quote a historically regurgitated explaination of geomancy that is untruthful. again its hard to explain something with science that science has denied existing for a whgile now. (magic)

Why so many Masons on a site like this I wonder? Are the numbers growing? Why chose this site out of all the other subjects. Ok to defend one's belief or the word has got round and they are all coming here. I bit strange when they know the headlines going to be on this site. Any suspicious to the growing numbers now? What attracts them here, if everything is so logical in their personality of thought. Guess they have to believe in a God too so the subject is well open for them here. Not sure still sounds fishy, but would not you not stick up for your society?
Not all know what we talk about on this site and can seem a bit of a shock, and they don't all go through the stuff we mention here-decent ones do exist and some very nice people who are Masons. Just don't allow your selves to think in a predjudice way, even priests and religeous leaders can abuse and abuse the system. Who says Satanists have not already infiltrated the churches?

[edit on 5-8-2006 by The time lord]