Originally posted by dgtempe
What i said is what i believe.

Well, as you said, it may affect me as well, so why are you so quick to pass your opinion as the best?

Sorry to have some gramatic errors, however not all of us are strictly working with one language.

Thanks.

I understand. English is my third language, actually. I speak english, et je parle francais, e' parlo italiano, ee ya gavareetye russki.

Mariella

After reading the Seattle Times article, Im definitely in agreement that the state had no right to take the kid away from his mom and force medical treatments on him that he cant decide and his mother did not want.

My own experience with the medical industrial complex has caused me to lose faith in "modern medicine" and its safety and effectiveness. But when I hear crap like this, I realize more and more that modern medicine is more about money, enslaving people with astronomical medical bills, and controlling people's bodies than it is with healing.

If people are more comfortable with alternative treatment, they should be allowed it. What cracks me up is when doctors claim that whenever an alternative treatment works, its a "placebo effect". Yet they also claim laternative treatments dont work. And doctors themselves precribe placebos all the friggin time.

I must apologize- I've had a bad day today, just dealing with a bunch of things...

You are all entittled to your opinion- and i'm sorry if i came through as though my opinion is the only one that "counts"

I apologize.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
My own experience with the medical industrial complex has caused me to lose faith in "modern medicine" and its safety and effectiveness.

So your opinion outweighs the much larger percentage of people that have no issue with their doctors? That makes sense

Ever hear the phrase "evil makes more press than good" ?

But when I hear crap like this, I realize more and more that modern medicine is more about money, enslaving people with astronomical medical bills, and controlling people's bodies than it is with healing.

Again with the generalisations. I work in public health. The patient never receives an "astronomical medical bill", and we don't work it like a money making scheme.

If people are more comfortable with alternative treatment, they should be allowed it.

I'll agree with that as long as you amend it to add that anyone who refuses the doctor's treatment and then seeks an alternative treatment which then fails is NOT allowed to sue for medical negligence, as has happened a few times that I can remember.

What cracks me up is when doctors claim that whenever an alternative treatment works, its a "placebo effect". Yet they also claim laternative treatments dont work. And doctors themselves precribe placebos all the friggin time.

I've never seen a doctor prescribe a placebo unless is was in a double blind drug study which the patient agreed to be a part of. Are you sure you don't live in the 1950s?

Mariella

Originally posted by bsl4doc
So your opinion outweighs the much larger percentage of people that have no issue with their doctors? That makes sense

No. Did I say that? You assuming so makes no sense. I stated My own experiences, and they are far from unique. There are loads of people sick of the whole mainstream medical machine. I speak for them.

Ever hear the phrase "evil makes more press than good" ?

Yeah. And? I need not press to know the medical establishment does as much harm as good. I need only my own exeriences and those of people I have known. Press such as this rounds it out.

[quoteAgain with the generalisations. I work in public health. The patient never receives an "astronomical medical bill", and we don't work it like a money making scheme.

Oh, it might not be astronomical to you. But for plenty of people, its increased financial burden. And if its all so benevolent, then why are people harrassed relentlessly by collections agencies when they cannot pay?

I'll agree with that as long as you amend it to add that anyone who refuses the doctor's treatment and then seeks an alternative treatment which then fails is NOT allowed to sue for medical negligence, as has happened a few times that I can remember.

Of course not. Anyone who would do such a thing is an idiot. It would be like seeking an alternative healer, then using a mainstream doc and suing the alternative. Its silly. Its all about choice.

I've never seen a doctor prescribe a placebo unless is was in a double blind drug study which the patient agreed to be a part of. Are you sure you don't live in the 1950s?

Oh you don't think they still don't prescribe placebos? Where are YOU living. The 50's? They still do it on occasion.

Mariella

From what I know of kidney failure, if you dont treat it you will die very fast.
The doctors were trying to protect the baby's life.

I see this :

The baby is mortally wounded, maybe a gash that is bleeding and unstopable, the mother then denies the doctors to stop the bleeding and stitch
the wound. Then the mother takes the baby and runs away.

I am not surprised. I read a biography where Parents decided that further chemo would kill their child. They kidnapped their OWN child from the hospital...and were on the run. Umbelievable! but its true. They now live in NZ and their child has survived relying on holistic medicine. Its a true story that is so alarming. I will find the name of it (if I can ) and post it up. It was years ago I read it...but really am not surprised to read this.

On a personal note, I havent seen a doctor for a very very long time.....
Have had a family member who went to the doctor (who misdiagnosed her) and the family lost all power over her. Thats the power of the State.... one recommendation from a doc is all it takes....It all started when she was depressed and wanted to kill herself; the truckers made her a ward of the State regardless. We won in the end but was a very long expensive battle. And while she was in the system, she had no say at all with treatment, institution etc. NO POWER whatsoever; and we as family didnt have any either. We would be told nothing. Meanwhile she is given electric shock therapy...mother fudging beauracrats....oh and this is the system...now her present doc said she was misdiagnosed but will not 'legally state it' and she is now on medication for the rest of her life because the drugs which she didnt need then she does now...bastages...

Once your in the hospital system...you have no power.

(All of imbalanced's last post)

Extraordinarily well put, imbalanced. The whole issue in a nutshell. Great stuff.

My sympathies are entirely with the child and the medical professionals trying to save its life. This loony was trying to prevent her child from being dialyzed. Good grief! If the kid died, I imagine she'd face a manslaughter charge. I certainly think she should.

People don't own their kids, dgtempe. In situations like this the rights of the state must outweigh those of the parents, otherwise the state cannot discharge its duties in respect of protecting its citizens, of which the child is one. And that, like it or not, is what nation-states are for.

As for the contention that it's all about money, one should consider that this kind of thing is just as common (if not more so) in countries where healthcare is considered the responsibility of the State and offered free of charge to citizens. And rightly so.

[edit on 4-7-2006 by Astyanax]

Imbalanced: That's exactly my point. Why is what this mother did any different than speeding with your child on your lap? Both recklessly endanger the child.

Skadi: I don't think you understand public health. The patient DOES NOT RECEIVE A BILL. The USA is the ONLY western nation without socialized medicine. You are stuck in an old mindset of the haves and have nots. Also, what sort of position are you in that you have "seen" doctors prescribe placebos? Do you work for the "evil" modern medicine people? Because otherwise, you would have no way of knowing if it was a sucrose pill or not, so I think you're ful,l of it. Let's see...who would know more about this...someone who actually can write prescriptions and works in a public hospital...or someone biased against all of us with MD after our name...hrmmm....

Mariella

Originally posted by Astyanax

(All of imbalanced's last post)

Extraordinarily well put, imbalanced. The whole issue in a nutshell. Great stuff.

R u calling me imbalanced? WTF???

where do you get off insulting me over my families experiences???

Originally posted by NJE777

Originally posted by Astyanax

(All of imbalanced's last post)

Extraordinarily well put, imbalanced. The whole issue in a nutshell. Great stuff.

R u calling me imbalanced? WTF???

where do you get off insulting me over my families experiences???

Are you serious?

The user who posted above you is named "Imbalanced".

Wow, you really flew off the handle there. You need to look into treating your anger issues...

Mariella

NJE777

I wouldnt take any of this to heart. This is my thread and i had to "donate" it since i have a different point of view and dont feel like FIGHTING all day long. I have a low threshold for people who dont get the point.\
The benefit is more points for me, i guess.

Carry on.......

I will say, the reason i posted this thread was to point out just how far government agencies, medical facilities are going nowadays. NOBODY got it. That's ok.


Keep those points coming.

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Are you serious?

The user who posted above you is named "Imbalanced".

Wow, you really flew off the handle there. You need to look into treating your anger issues...

Mariella

thanks bsl..have had the pleasure of doing the rounds with you b4 and the memory of being insulted as an Australian has perhaps made me a little defensive. By the way..you didnt have an ounce of common decency to apologise for the insult then.

However, the quote was strategically placed and I didnt see Imbalanced name in italics. So skwirmish, if you or your entourage want to make a point..make it matter of factly.

Oh Mr other side of the fence... I also have family who work in the medical field...but WTF would I know? Nothing I guess, just one of those anti morons who are critical of the system.

Originally posted by NJE777

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Are you serious?

The user who posted above you is named "Imbalanced".

Wow, you really flew off the handle there. You need to look into treating your anger issues...

Mariella

thanks bsl..have had the pleasure of doing the rounds with you b4 and the memory of being insulted as an Australian has perhaps made me a little defensive. By the way..you didnt have an ounce of common decency to apologise for the insult then.

However, the quote was strategically placed and I didnt see Imbalanced name in italics. So skwirmish, if you or your entourage want to make a point..make it matter of factly.

Oh Mr other side of the fence... I also have family who work in the medical field...but WTF would I know? Nothing I guess, just one of those anti morons who are critical of the system.

I have a nuclear Physicist in the family- does that mean i am one also?
Not to mention my uncle the doctor, and my cousin the lawyer.

Originally posted by NJE777the quote was strategically placed

No, it wasn't. You posted yours while I was typing my reply to imbalanced.

and I didnt see Imbalanced name in italics.

Because, dear, the quote was not strictly a quote, and I didn't push the quote button to make it.

Medical science is the unspoken religion of our society. Doctors, as is made obvious by this story, think of themselves as gods, and *god* help you if you should cross them!

I am also outraged that Ma. is forceing people to pay taxes for medical insurance. Enforced medical slavery, I call it!

Modern medical science is great if you have a broken leg, or perhaps, cancer. Otherwise a bunch of over-rated treatments if you ask me.

I have been to a doctor exactly twice in the last 25 years. Once for chicken pox, once for a motorcycle accident. This was despite having medical insurace through work for 10 years (I am no longer insured). BTW I could have skipped the pox visit, there was nothing they could do for me.

I am quite healthy and have been able to cure myself of any ailments I have suffered.

I fully support YOUR right to do as you wish with your body, but don't tell me what to do with mine! And don't tell me what treatment to get for my kids either! Osteopathic treatment does not have a garuanteed success rate. What if that woman had submitted to the "normal" treatments and her child had died?? It does happen! What then!!!



[edit on 4-7-2006 by opensecret1150]

Open,

Then it would have been fine because the God doctors have the magical powers of life and death. They alone, the Gods of the medical world, know what's good for you and me, dont ya know..... It is so now, and people cant think for themselves any longer. We have lost the ability to think and make desicions, dont you know?
We need a keeper- the government- to guide us by the hand and tell us wha is right and what is wrong. I remember the movie "Lorenzo's Oil"- check it out. It has to do with a mother seeking every alternative in the world in order to save her child.

anyway, thank you for your post and your openmindness.

[edit on 4-7-2006 by dgtempe]

The news media coverage of this poor mom's plight have been the typically BIG PHARMA BS!



My associates and I were having a dinner party when they started up with the 'Amber Alert'.

For starters, the 'journalists' presenting the stories were just PARROTS and were not even attempting to ask the questions that NEEDED to be asked when the words 'kidnapped' and 'mother' are used in the SAME sentence.

Beyond disgraceful.



The truth of the story was that the child was born with undersized kidneys. The mother had been in fact ACTIVELY PURSUING alternative treatments and the child was still with us solely thanks to those efforts.

Further the child has NEVER been in any danger whatsoever...

The MDs are, have been, and will continue to be the only problem in this story... (well... also add in the morons at CPS) and the only reason this woman (and her husband) have lost this child to the state.

It's not suprising to see the usual cast of characters are here defending BIG PHARMA... including our resident Dr. Disinformation.

I can NOT emphasize this enough...

DO NOT WASTE your time arguing with her. Her ONLY purpose here is ODO (Obstruct, disrupt, obfuscate). Her mission, based on her actions, is not about a real dialogue, but only to push peoples buttons who don't march in lock step with BIG PHARMA.

And she's already got some of you angry.



For a good laugh... Engage her in a 'discussion' about joint health and glucosamine. I'm pretty sure she thinks it's some kind of witch craft.

Agreed, with the state of the Pharma industry, and over prescribing of medicine for profit, I expect it to be a big part of the NWO. With one man's ability to say "I know what's best, you have to come with us. "


That's why when I broke my leg I walked around for 6 weeks with a splint fashioned from a broken broomstick and duct tape. Them docters cain't be trusted!