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Roswell Proof: Where is it?

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posted on Jul, 28 2006 @ 08:18 PM
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And again , I'm not ashamed to say , skyeagle409 brings up a great point!

That is that the Air Force is quick to say every Roswell witness is subject to "Time Compression" of events the witnesses remember , and yet C. B. Moore is supposedly immune to this in his '94 testimony despite the FACT that he must have launched hundreds of Balloons 47 years ago in 1947-48 .

Moore also has no direct memory of Flight # 4 and makes his testimony , 47 years after the fact , a secondary source when he refers to Dr. Crary's Journal in his '94 testimony to substantiate a "Flight # 4 " which clearly was not a "Constant level Cosmic Ray type MOGUL Balloon Train".

I made the point that Dr. Crary's Journal entries stateing "No Ballon Flights" on June 3 and June 4 refer to MOGUL Constant level Balloon Trains back on page 5.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

With references to primary sources here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Here skyeagle409 explains the difference between a "sevice flight" and "Constant level Balloon train".
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Back on page 6 Access_Denied agree's Dr. Crary's Journal states no "Constant level Balloon flight's" were launched on June 3 and June 4.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Posted by Access Denied

The flight on June 4th recorded in Dr. Crary’s journal was not a “MOGUL” flight therefore it can’t be Flight 4.

This weak semantic argument is the one most commonly used to try and discredit the AF report. There was a flight on June 4th and it’s the only flight recorded in Dr. Crary’s journal between Flight 3 and 5. All balloon flights done during Project MOGUL were numbered sequentially therefore the flight on June 4th is “MOGUL” Flight 4.





Jun 4 Wed. Out to Tularosa Range and fired charges between 00 and 06 this am. No balloon flights again on account of clouds. Flew regular sono buoy up in cluster of balloons and had good luck on receiver on ground but poor on plane. Out with Thompson pm. Shot charges from 1800 to 2400.


(Substitute “no balloon flights again” with “no constant level balloon flights again” in the second sentence if you still don’t get it.)


So since Access Denied asked first on page 6 , I have to ask does everybody "get it" ?





[edit on 28-7-2006 by lost_shaman]




posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 12:48 PM
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Good point. I think the simple explanation is it’s all second hand. The only people we know for a fact had direct contact with the material (like the pilot) all describe the material as consistent with the balloon/radar target explanation.


Not they didn't? They didn't describe material that was consistent with balsa wood and tin foil. This is what they were describing and the materials here had nothing to do with balsa wood and tin foil.

*************************************************************

US Military are using smart metals similar
to those found at the Roswell Crash In 1947


www.ufos-aliens.co.uk...

*************************************************************

Marcel never claimed to have recovered balsa wood and tin foil.




[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Hal9000

Roswell is an intriguing case and regardless of your beliefs, is not a waste of time for people to research, and it shouldn’t be simply brushed aside. It is a piece of our history.



The more we look the more into the Roswell incident, the more we are uncovering new information on the Roswel incident. We have already proven over the years that the Air Force's 1947 weather balloon cover-up story and its 1994 and 1997 Roswell Reports are all false. Only the original "flying disk" recovery story has yet to be proven as false and those who were directly involved in that incident are claiming that is exactly what the Roswell incidennt is all about; the recovery of an extraterrestrial flying object.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied


Right. There was no cover.


The Air Force's cover story on the Roswell incident.

* It was a weather balloon.

Fact: In 1994, the Air Force admitted it wasn't a weather balloon. Colonel Dubose and Marcel, who posed with the debris, have confirmed the debris is not what was recovered on the Foster ranch and noted the debris was place there as a means of a cover-up.

* In 1994, the Air Force[that a Mogul balloon train # 4 was involved.

Fact: Official records show that the flight for Mogul balloon train # 4 was cancelled and never flown.

* An FBI memo mentions a balloon and a hexagon device.

Fact: no balloon with a hexagon device was responsible for the Roswell incident.

* In 1997, the Air Force said that alien bodies people saw in 1947 were test dummies and accident victims of the 1950's

Fact: That was a false story concocted by the Air Force since the Roswell incident happened in 1947 and the accident victims and test dummy test took place during the 1950's, not even in the same time frame.


There are your cover-up stories The following references underlines my point.

___________________________________________________________________

General Thomas Dubose Confirms Roswell Cover-up

"Marcel and Ramey's then chief of staff, Brigadier General Thomas Dubose (ret.), would later claim that the weather balloon was a cover story to get the press off their backs. Gen. Dubose, in fact, stated he personally received the order from Washington to start the coverup. Both said they were acting under Ramey's orders when they made statements to the press about the object being a weather device. Supporting this to some extent was another quote attributed to Marcel from 1947 by AP saying that the balloon debris was "scattered over a square mile," inconsistent with the small amount of balloon material that was publicly displayed. Another quote inconsistent with what was shown oddly came from Ramey himself, who was quoted by the Washington Post, United Press, Associated Press, and others saying that the "box kite" covered with foil would have been "about 25 feet in diameter" if reconstructed."

____________________________________________________________________

Affidavit of General Thomas Dubose

Brig. Gen. Thomas Jefferson Dubose
and the Weather Balloon Cover Story

7) "The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press."

Signed: T. J. Dubose
Date: 9/16/91
Signature witnessed by:
Linda R. Split
Notary Public, State of Florida
____________________________________________________________________

WAR V WU A50 NL PD
KALAMAZOO MICH JUL 8
WAR DEPT


INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC

****SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION ...****
____________________________________________________________________



So, there's your undeniable proof of a Roswell cover-up.


[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied


Wrong. Moore showed that Flight #4 regardless of how YOU THINK it was configured would have landed on the ranch.


Fact Charles Moore stated in the 1994 Roswell Report that Mogul balloon trains were not associated with service balloon flights. Dr. Crary's record show that only a service flight was launched, not a Mogul balloon train. CAA's guidelines forbid the launch of Mogul balloon flights on cloudy days and that is why Crary stated in his diary the reason why he cancelled Mogul balloon flight # 4 and now, some Roswell skeptics concur that no Mogul balloon flight took place.


No it isn’t. That’s your issue. The only issue here for me and many others is where did the debris come from and many of us have come to accept the Mogul explanation as the one with highest probability of being the correct one.


I've just posted the evidence that no Mogul balloon flight took ever place on June 4, 1947 according to official records and here you are still trying to push forward a false report.

If you think that a Mogul balloon flight took place then post the evidence for all to see including its flight records. If you are unable to do so , then the case is closed on a Mogul balloon train # 4 flight that never took place according to official Mogul flight records and as proof, I bet that you are unable to post any flight records for that balloon train for all of us here to see.





[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied

Because he rips this whole balloon nonsense to shreds as just another red herring. I would suspect anybody without a vested emotional or financial interest in this case can clearly see that. If you want your conspiracy you’re going to have prove his, Moore’s, and many others analysis wrong.


Tim Prinity has been proven wrong time after time after time. He can't even get the facts straight and I consider Tim Prinity a comedian in regards to the Roswell incident. He has been proven wrong on other UFO issues as well by experts so I don't consider him a reliable source by any means.


Wrong. “Moore’s Memory” is supported by the fact that Brazel’s description of the debris found on his ranch matches that of a balloon and radar targets that were being used by Project Mogul at the time.


False! Brazel never claimed on his own that what he found were remains of a weather balloon. That was a false story concocted by the Air Force and the Roswell skeptics fell for the Air Force's falses story.

When Charles Moore was first asked if a Mogul balloon train crashed on the Foster ranch, his reply was, "No."

[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Purgatory
The balloon story is the lamest hoax I've ever heard.


I concur. Even those who were directly involved in the Roswell incident have confimed that no balloon of any type was ever involved in the Roswell incident.

I was debating the Roswell skeptics prior to the Air Force's 1994 Roswell Report and they continue to claim undeniable evidence that a weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident.....''right up to the day the Air Force announced that no weather balloon was involved in the Roswell incident after all, but what happened to the skeptics undeniable evidence that it was a weather balloon?

Needless to say, the Roswell believers had a field day with the Roswell skeptics soon afterwards. This is what a recovered weather balloon rawin devices look like. Please notice that they resemble nothing of the hand-torn cover-up debris spread out on the floor in Ramey's office.

roswellproof.homestead.com...

To sum it up, the Air Force duped the skeptics again!



[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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quote]Originally posted by Access Denied

Originally posted by skyeagle409
So, there's your undeniable proof of a Roswell cover-up.




Well then I guess we can all go home now.


Yes you can at this point.


You have proved nothing and your so-called facts are wrong. Actually it appears you may in fact be delusional. Thank you for sharing your opinion.


Now, that's funny considering that I have provided the actual Washington D.C. document along with Dubose's affidavit that proved the Roswell cover-up. Also consider that some skeptics are beginning to dismiss Mogul balloon train # 4 as well. Add to the fact that may facts came dirrectly from Mogul balloon flight data record of Crary where he specifically stated that particular balloon flight was cancelled due to clouds.


If you want to participate in this debate you have to provide sources (links) to the material you're quoting.


I already have! Here it is again since you missed it the first time around.
____________________________________________________________________

General Thomas Dubose Confirms Roswell Cover-up

"Marcel and Ramey's then chief of staff, Brigadier General Thomas Dubose (ret.), would later claim that the weather balloon was a cover story to get the press off their backs. Gen. Dubose, in fact, stated he personally received the order from Washington to start the coverup. Both said they were acting under Ramey's orders when they made statements to the press about the object being a weather device. Supporting this to some extent was another quote attributed to Marcel from 1947 by AP saying that the balloon debris was "scattered over a square mile," inconsistent with the small amount of balloon material that was publicly displayed. Another quote inconsistent with what was shown oddly came from Ramey himself, who was quoted by the Washington Post, United Press, Associated Press, and others saying that the "box kite" covered with foil would have been "about 25 feet in diameter" if reconstructed."

____________________________________________________________________

Affidavit of General Thomas Dubose

Brig. Gen. Thomas Jefferson Dubose
and the Weather Balloon Cover Story

7) "The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press."

Signed: T. J. Dubose
Date: 9/16/91
Signature witnessed by:
Linda R. Split
Notary Public, State of Florida
____________________________________________________________________

WAR V WU A50 NL PD
KALAMAZOO MICH JUL 8
WAR DEPT

INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC

****SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION ...****
____________________________________________________________________


Myself and nightwing have asked you several times to do this yet you continue to ignore our requests so therefore I will continue to ignore you.


Is that suppose to change reality? Of course not!


P.S. I already covered Dubose on Page 1 of this thread...


And, I have provided Dubose's own affidavit where he states that the Roswell incident was a cover-up.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe you should read through this entire thread like I asked you to before you post again and make an even bigger fool of yourself.


LOL!!! Dubose has already admitted in an affidavit and on TV that the Roswell cover-up is a fact and look what you had posted! And, Marcel has stated that what he posed with was not what was recovered at the Foster ranch.


P.S.S. We've already established there was a Flight #4. Get over it.


LOL!! There was no Mogul balloon flight # 4 according to Mogul balloon flight records and as proof, you have not yet provided the flight.

[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied
P.S.S. We've already established there was a Flight #4. Get over it.


That isn't what this skeptic and other skeptics are beginning to think.

___________________________________________________________________

Mogul 4 That Never Was!

To All,

I think it is about time to come back to the question of wether
the Mogul 4 balloon train was flown or not. After having read
carefully the books of Charles Moore and Karl Pflock ,and having
leafed through the 1,000 pages USAF Roswell Report, I seems more
and more obvious to me that what Brazel found on the Foster
ranch on June 14 was not the Mogul 4 ballloon train..."

"Geophysicist Albert Crary noted in his diary for June 4:
"no balloon flight again on account of clouds. Flew regular
sonobuoy mike up in cluster of balloons."

There was no Mogul 4 launching at three in the morning and
not even at 5.

Moore himself does not remember such a launching.

___________________________________________________________________

No Mogul Balloon # 4; Further Proof.

Summary and conclusion

"A mathematical model idealized the debris field as a variable-length, parabola-shaped region sparsely covered with fragments of an extraordinary thin-shell material."

"It was assumed that Mogul Flight 4 created the debris field, leaving behind metalized-paper, rawin-radar-target remnants having a known total surface area."

"Model-predicted and Mogul Flight 4-supplied thin-shell material surface areas were compared. One Mogul balloon train could account for only an extremely small fraction of the reported debris, even if Major Jesse Marcel had badly overestimated the field size."

"Clearly, Project Mogul Flight 4 could not have been responsible for the debris found on the Foster ranch. Indeed, the analysis illustrates in a most compelling fashion just how absurd the Air Force’s Mogul hypothesis really is. "


www.cufos.org...



How many rawin devices you DON’T see on this balloon cluster”

roswellproof.homestead.com...



Goes to show the Air Force duped the Roswell skeptics again, this time on a Mogul balloon train flight that never was.






[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied
[You have proved nothing and your so-called facts are wrong. Actually it appears you may in fact be delusional. Thank you for sharing your opinion.




JESSE MARCEL INTERVIEWS

So much for the skeptic‘s balsa wood and tin foil theory. It’s gone with the wind!

“He [Brazel] took us to that place, and we started picking up fragments, which was foreign to me. I'd never seen anything like that. I didn't know what we were picking up. I still don't know. As of this day, I still don't know what it was.”

“ And I brought as much of it back to the base as I could and -- Well, some ingenious young GI thought he'd try to match a few pieces together and see if he could match something. I don't think he ever matched two pieces. It was so fragmented. It was strewn over a wide area, I guess maybe three-quarters of a mile long and a few hundred feet wide. So we loaded it up and we came back to the base."

(Corley) "It was maybe a mile long and several hundred feet wide of debris."


Stringfield, SR #2, 1980, based on phone interview with Marcel)

"The debris of an apparent metallic aerial device, or craft, that had exploded in the air or crashed, was first made known by a sheep rancher who found fragments of metal and other material on his 8000 acre property. When he informed the Air Force base in Roswell of his discovery, Major J. M. and aides was dispatched to the area for investigation.”


Here, Marcel gives a clear indication that the Air Force knew nothing of a crash and that is proof that no military operation was in progress at the time of the Roswell incident.

MAJOR JESSE MARCEL

(H&M, FUFOR, 1979 television interview)

"[There were] many bits of metallic foil, that looked like, but was not, aluminum, for no matter how often one crumpled it, it regained its original shape again. Besides that, they were indestructible, even with a sledgehammer."
(Corley) "...the material was unusual. Of course the Air Force called it a balloon. It couldn't have been. It was porous. It couldn't hold any air. The material was a fabric... I tried to blow though it. It would go right through it. I tried to blow it with my mouth." [Corley asking for clarification: "What piece? That foil looking stuff?"] "No, no. ...what looked like balloon material. A cloth. ...It wouldn't hold any air. ...it's a cloth-like material, but it was also metallic. ...It was a metallic cloth. It [air] would go right through it. I even tried to burn it. It wouldn't burn. ...a balloon has to have ...gas to go up in the air -- even hot air. This could not hold anything like that. It was porous.


MAJOR JESSE MARCEL

(R&S2) "We [Cavitt and himself] found some metal, small bits of metal. ... I wanted to see some of the stuff burn, but all I had was a cigarette lighter ... I lit the cigarette lighter to some of this stuff and it didn't burn."
(R&S1, SR#2, interviewed by Leonard Stringfield) "The metal fragments varied in size up to six inches in length, but were the thickness of tinfoil. The fragments were unusual because they were of great strength. They could not be bent or broken, no matter what pressure we applied by hand."


roswellproof.homestead.com...


These are the type of materials that Jesse Marcel is describing.

Nanotechnology is the new science of assembling exotic new materials at the molecular and atomic level. These materials, according to computer modeling, could be made much stronger, harder, and more heat resistant than anything we can manufacture today. The materials could have active properties, like living tissue, and also be highly integrated. All electronics could be built right in.

roswellproof.homestead.com...


[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 09:33 PM
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ROSWELL: 52 YEARS OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS
By Donald R. Schmitt & Thomas J. Carey



* Weather balloons had fallen onto Brazel’s ranch on a number of occasions, and he turned them in for the rewards offered. Such devices always carried instructions and return policies which usually included the name of the manufacturer and location of the launch site…”

Same for Mogul balloon trains, which is further proof they were not classified.


* And if Mogul was as highly classified as the Air Force maintains, which evidently led to the misidentification in Roswell, how is it that they invited the press to photograph this missing, top-secret balloon in Ramey’s office and promote the publication of seven different pictures in practically every major newspaper throughout the country? And why would they blow the entire project (with pictures) in the Alamogordo News of July 10, 1947?

www.cufos.org...



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied

Originally posted by skyeagle409

If you want to participate in this debate you have to provide sources (links) to the material you're quoting.



And I still don't a see a link to your source do you? Do you even know how to cite a source? You know like a provide a URL or a page number from a book along the with the book's title and who wrote it and when?


Look again!


And I see you edited another to post to remove the link. What’s the matter? Are you afraid I’d read it and see your own source blows your theory right out of the water? Too late I already read it.


Here it is again in case you want to read it again.

Mogul 4 That Never Was.

www.virtuallystrange.net...



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied

Originally posted by skyeagle409

quote]
Signed: T. J. Dubose
Date: 9/16/91

And, I have provided Dubose's own affidavit where he states that the Roswell incident was a cover-up.


You see this is why I warned you about making a fool of yourself. Look at the date on this affidavit. Do you have any idea how old he was at the time?['quote]

What difference does that make. Dubose reconfirmed his statement in a video interview as well on TV, so what's the point?


He contradicts himself and others throughout it. According to both you and lost_shaman we can’t use Professor Moore’s memory as evidence so how can you use Dubose’s?


Because I have provided the document from Washington D.C. that confirms Dubose's account that the cover-up was concocted in Washington, not at Roswell AAF, which proved beyond anydoubt the Roswell cover-up. BTW, were you aware of Charles Moore's UFO sighting? Yes indeed, there were flying saucers all over New Mexico in 1947 as recorded by the Mogul and Skyhook balloon teams. If you missed it, here it is again.

_________________________________________________________________

Charles Moore's UFO Sighting.

"One very famous Mogul sighting involved Charles Moore on April 24, 1949. An additional irony here is that this is the same Charles Moore that has been trying so hard in the present-day to debunk the Roswell case as one of his Mogul balloons."

" Moore's sighting was written up in the equally famous 1952 LIFE Magazine article of high-quality UFO reports and in a 1950 TRUE Magazine article by Naval Commander Robert B. McLaughlin, head of the Naval missile program at White Sands (who unequivocally stated that the flying saucers being spotted by White Sands personnel, including himself, were not only real but extraterrestrial in origin). Moore's sighting is also found in a number of government documents, including those of the CIA, whose scientists were very impressed by it."

roswellproof.homestead.com...

You see, flying saucers are real!



Give it up. You’re wasting your time. Go back to Space.com and troll there.


LOL!! You need to give it up since it has already been proven that there was no Mogul balloon train # 4 flight and as proof, you failed to post any data flight records on that particular flight. What more can I say except that you failed to prove your point and I provided references that proved mine.




[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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why the seemingly great need to debunk Mr. Marcell and his base commander ?
nomatter what he said Later afew things DO stand out to be truth by actions.
ask ourselfs these questions.
1) what post did Mr.marcell hold at the base
2) how long after did he retain his role in the army airforce
3)how long did the commander of that base stay in command and or get prompted and how long in the force.
4) while the base was the ONLY nuke armed air force base in the usa at the time, would not that mean the people in command whould Know a disk from a weather baloon ( since they are trained to reconize any and all craft flying, to fly, and x-craft )

understand that After he picked the stuff up off the ranch and turned it over to his commander he was told By his commander to tell the local newspaper.
and that Both of them were convinced AT the time that this was an object of ET design and opperation.
and it was After the world was notified that the big boys showed up and started the whole weather baloon thing.
i just dont understand the need to prove that these men were nuts ( But OK to retain there jobs protecting the USA with the use of Nukes )
But then again this might take awhile to figure out. i mean it only took 300 years for some guys in togas to decide jesus was the son of god.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied

Originally posted by skyeagle409
Same for Mogul balloon trains, which is further proof they were not classified.




You truly are clueless. Read my lips very carefully and repeat after me...
"The Mogul balloon trains were not classified, only thier purpose was!"


I could have gone back to 1947 to see that its mission was.

roswellproof.homestead.com...

Besides, the Soviet's first nuclear blast was detected by an aircraft, not a Mogul balloon train. Were you aware of that fact?



There was no coverup.


Now, that's funny considering that for 47 years the Air Force covered up the Roswell incident with a weather balloon and then admitted they lied and covered it up again with a Mogul balloon flight that never was. It's all there in 'black and wihte.'

Proof of a Roswell cover-up.



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 10:18 PM
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quote]Originally posted by dreamerft

why the seemingly great need to debunk Mr. Marcell and his base commander ?
nomatter what he said Later afew things DO stand out to be truth by actions.
ask ourselfs these questions.

1) what post did Mr.marcell hold at the base
2) how long after did he retain his role in the army airforce
3)how long did the commander of that base stay in command and or get prompted and how long in the force.

www.roswellproof.com...



4) while the base was the ONLY nuke armed air force base in the usa at the time, would not that mean the people in command whould Know a disk from a weather baloon ( since they are trained to reconize any and all craft flying, to fly, and x-craft ) understand that After he picked the stuff up off the ranch and turned it over to his commander he was told By his commander to tell the local newspaper. and that Both of them were convinced AT the time that this was an object of ET design and opperation.


Let’s stop here. The military was notified of an object that they were unaware of . What does that tell you?


and it was After the world was notified that the big boys showed up and started the whole weather baloon thing.


Yes indeed, the Air Force said it was a weather balloon in 1947 and admitted its lie in 1994 when it said that no weather balloon was responsible.

I

just dont understand the need to prove that these men were nuts ( But OK to retain there jobs protecting the USA with the use of Nukes )
But then again this might take awhile to figure out. i mean it only took 300 years for some guys in togas to decide jesus was the son of god.



Here’s another person I would like to add.

BRIG.-GENERAL ARTHUR EXON

[Exon was stationed at Wright Field at the time of the crash. From 1964-69 he was the Commanding Officer of Wright-Patterson AFB, where crash material was taken in 1947. He said he never saw the actual crash material, but was told the result of testing by other personnel involved.]
(R&S2) "We heard the material was coming to Wright Field. [Testing was done in the various labs.] Everything from chemical analysis, stress tests, compression tests, flexing. It was brought into our material evaluation labs. I don't know how it arrived, but the boys who tested it said it was very unusual."
"[Some of it] could be easily ripped or changed... There were other parts of it that were very thin but awfully strong and couldn't be dented with heavy hammers...It was flexible to a degree... Some of it was flimsy and was tougher than hell, and the other was almost like foil but strong. It had them pretty puzzled. ...They knew they had something new in their hands. The metal and material was unknown to anyone I talked to. Whatever they found, I never heard what the results were. A couple of guys thought it might be Russian, but the overall consensus was that the pieces were from space. ...Roswell was the recovery of a craft from space."



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied
[

Only the rancher was. Marcel wasn't sure what it was. The rest is just one big huge misunderstanding. The "press release" got "lost in translation". We still don't know exactly what was said it in. None of them had ever seen a radar reflector before.


I am sure these people never saw a rawin device either until they recovered one. Where’s the flying saucer story for their recoveries? Once again, note that those recovered rawin devices look nothing like the hand-torn stuff in Ramey's office.


REPORTED RADAR TARGET RECOVERIES

roswellproof.homestead.com...



[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 10:40 PM
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1947


St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 7/9/47, page 1

'Flying Disk' Part of Weather Balloon;
'Saucer' Reports Drop

Sacramento (CA) Bee, 7/9, Morning, page 1

Reports of Flying Saucers Dwindle;
New Mexico 'Disc' is Only Weather Balloon

Columbus (Ohio) Citizen, 7/9, page 1

Saucer Found in Desert is Labeled Weather Balloon


Now, for the Air Force's admission that no weather balloon was responsible.


1994


The Air Force Report on the
Roswell Incident


CONCLUSION

The Air Force research did not locate or develop any information that the "Roswell Incident" was a UFO event. All available official materials, although they do not directly address Roswell per se, indicate that the most likely source of the wreckage recovered from the Brazel Ranch was from one of the Project Mogul balloon trains.
___________________________________________________________________


Admisson by the Air Force of a cover-up after claiming for 47 years that it was a weather balloon as indicated in the newspapers in 1947.


[edit on 29-7-2006 by skyeagle409]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied

There was no coverup.



You should check again because that is not what C. B. Moore was saying in the '94 Air Force Report interview.




SO you were encouraged by whom to have a cover story?


A: Probably by James Peoples, who was our scientific
monitoring... As you may be aware, there is a former colonel,
later General DuBose, who makes a statement that something was a
cover story. When I read this, I was not at all surprised. I
interpreted that as saying someone was covering up on Mogul.
That was my interpretation when I read what was attributable to
General DuBose. So from his point of view, there were certainly
no threats, but we were aware we weren't supposed to be talking.

***********************
Q: You went on these field trips. When you left, getting
back to the cover story, you were the project engineer.

*************************

That's the end of it. So there's no hint that Crary was
involved in any coverup such as this clearly is. This is a
coverup right here because they talk about our operations, they
talk about our balloons we thought went to Colorado,and they all
claim it to be part of Pritchard's radar operation.

**************************

I'm really surprised at this newspaper story because
implicit in this is the idea that someone provided a good cover
for us, and yet Crary's diary doesn't show that he was involved
in it, and I wasn't aware that my contact, Dyvad, was privy
enough to our operations to have carried this out. So this is a
bit of a mystery to me.

Q: What would you speculate, how would someone, just
circumstances, coincidences, or intentional?

A: It's very clear that it was intentional, and there was
a better security operation going on than I appreciated at the
time. That would be my assessment.


If there wasn't a cover-up or a cover then why did the Army and Navy and Air Force launch RAWIN and RAWYIN Targets explaining they must be "Disks" for the Press all over the country for a week in mid-July ?

It only really makes sense if you consider that it had nothing to do whatsoever with MOGUL. skyeagle409 has posted a piece of the evidence.


www.project1947.com...

JULY 8

INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC

SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION

PURPOSES CONTACT COL M DUFFY SPRING LAKE NEW JERSEY FOR

INFORMATION



You recognize who Col. M. Duffy is?

Col. Albert C. Trakowski's boss, the same Col. Duffy who ran MOGUL before Trakowski got his job when he moved up.

The same Col. Duffy who Trakowski claims was at Wright Field and ID'ed the Debris as belonging to MOGUL and called Trakowski in the middle of the night according to Trakowski's Testimony.

He can not be at Wright Field to ID any debris if he was near MOGUL HQ on July 8 giving reporter Tony Gaston information that "Saucers" are RAWIN Targets.

I have already shown that RAWIN Targets were being used to explain "Disks" just prior to Roswell in Ohio all around Wright Field.





It's clear the Idea that "Saucers' and "Disks" were going to be explained as Weather Balloons and RAWIN Targets was being thrown out to the Public before Roswell happened.

And indeed that is exactly what happens for a week after Roswell as the Military flies RAWIN and RAYWIN Targets for the Press all over the Country.






[edit on 29-7-2006 by lost_shaman]



posted on Jul, 29 2006 @ 11:47 PM
link   
What that July 8 telegram tells us that is of importance here is that Col. Duffy is spreading the RAWIN explanation of "Saucers" and "Disks" to Reporter Tony Gaston on July 8 and was nowhere near Wright Field making an ID of MOGUL Debris.



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