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The Disclosure Project/Steven Greer a hoax?

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posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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Also Bab Lazaar is a fraud. Here is what Nuclear Phycisist Stanton Friedman has to say about Bob Lazaar.



The Bob Lazar Fraud

December 1997
By Stanton Friedman

Incredible claims have been made about Bob Lazar for years. He supposedly is a physicist with an MS in Physics from MIT and an MS in Electronics from the California Institute of Technology. He was a "Scientist" for Los Alamos National Laboratory, and obtained a job back-engineering UFOs at a very secret site at Area 51 in Nevadathrough Dr. Edward Teller.

Supposedly he figured out how saucers work using Element 115 -- matter/anti-matter, etc. He was able to steal a small quantity of 115 from the 500 pounds available, but this was stolen back. He came forward with his story despite death threats because he thought the public has a right to know. Videotapes are available with his claims.

It is all BUNK.

Not one shred of evidence has been put forth to support this story: No diplomas, no resumes, no transcripts, no memberships in professional organizations, no papers, no pages from MIT or Caltech yearbooks. He also mentioned, in a conversation with me, California State University at Northridge and Pierce Junior College -- also in the San Fernando Valley, California. I checked all four schools. Pierce said he had taken electronics courses in the late 1970s. The other three schools never heard of him.

The page from the Los Alamos Nat'l Lab phone book with Lazar's name on it clearly states that it includes employees of the DOE and outside contractor, Kirk Meyer. "K/M" follows Lazar's name. This proves he worked for K/M, not LANL.

I checked with LANL's personnel department for Lazar's name and that of an old colleague. They found my guy, but not Lazar.

He was publicly asked when he got his MS from MIT. He said "Let me see now, I think it was probably 1982." Nobody getting an MS from MIT would not know the year immediately. He was asked to name some of his profs, He said: "Let's see now, Bill Duxler will remember me from Caltech." I located Duxler. He's a Pierce physics prof, and never taught at Caltech. Lazar was registered in one of his courses at the same time Lazar was supposedly at MIT! Nobody who can go to MIT goes to Pierce JC, not to mention the rather long commute between LA and Cambridge, Mass.

I checked his High School. He graduated in August, not with his class. The only science course he took was chemistry. He ranked 261 out of 369, which is in the bottom third. There is no way he would have been admitted by MIT or Caltech. An MS in Physics from MIT requires a thesis. No such thesis exists at MIT, and he is not on a commencement list.

The notion that the government wiped his CIVILIAN records clean is absurd.

When he declared bankruptcy in the mid 1980s for almost $300,000.00 he listed his occupation as a self-employed film processor. With MS degrees from MIT and Caltech? Caltech would not have accepted him for an MS program if he already had one from MIT.

There is no evidence that any 115 has been created anywhere. Based on what we know about all other elements over #100, it would certainly have been radioactive with a short half life, and 500 pounds could not have been accumulated. His scheme sounds good, but makes no real sense especially in view of how difficult it would be to add protons to #115.

He could not have gotten a Compartmentalized Security clearance having operated a brothel. His W-2 form from the Department of Naval Intelligence totals under $1000.00, at most a week's pay for a scientist. You can't get a security clearance in a week.

Scientists leave trails. Lazar is NOT a scientist. He couldn't even answer scientific questions put to him. An excellent review of Bob's "Physics" can be seen at www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm.

THIS IS PURE BUNK. BUNK. BUNK.




posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Can't say I've ever believed in The Disclosure Project, but if you feel it is a hoax could you tell us why and how he got so many people together who strongly believe they have been part of the cover up?




I don't consider it a hoax. When it first started I was 100% behind it, figuring finally the 'right' people were coming forward... then over the years nothing came of it... sure bits and pieces like "I saw this and will testify..." etc but nothing was shown.

Getting like minded people together is easy... people feel 'safety in numbers' no one wants to stand up alone. My own group at Pegasus is a perfect example... Only started in 2006 and it has drawn many participants, some very well placed in the world including a current Boeing exec...

What I don't understand is why these people, now that they see its not going anywhere, haven't jumped ship.

Now when I go here
www.disclosureproject.org...
the first thing I see is the store where we can buy CD's

I have no beef with making money on books and CD's, have even thought of it myself (with many requests) on my own site to help compensate for expenses and the hours spent

I just don't get this "We have something to tell... but we are not going to right now" mentality

How long has it been now?



On Wednesday, May 9th, 2001, over twenty military, intelligence, government, corporate and scientific witnesses came forward at the National Press Club in Washington, DC


Hoagland also uses this press club... the last time was when Ken Johnston was about to reveal spectacular new things. Well that turned out to be worthless, but the new book "Dark Mission" sold big time anyway.

In the end we were right back where we started... except with a few more nails in the credibility coffin...

Sometimes I think those in the 'top' of this field are our own worst enemies.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

I know what you mean about Hoagland. He's one of those people who thinks, "Why get my point across in a single paragraph when I can use hundreds of paragraphs." Also, if I hear him say that he has the smoking gun one more time I'll top myself. His latest smoking gun on his website, enterprisemission, has him claiming that a crater is a huge glass dome! Go and have a look for yourself.
To get back to the Disclosure project for a minute. I believe that most of the witnesses who came forward truthfully had strange experiences to tell of. They risked a lot by coming forward and describing those experiences in detail, and Greer abused their trust and made a tidy packet out of them. Its not just us who have been conned its the witnesses as well.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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Well perhaps I should write all those witnesses and get them to make a statement for Pegasus



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by subliminal1284
Also Bab Lazaar is a fraud. Here is what Nuclear Phycisist Stanton Friedman has to say about Bob Lazaar.


Even Friedman just as anyone else does not know it all.

Here is an interesting interview from Art Bell with John Lear wherein John tells very interesting things about Bob Lazar.
John Lear knows Bob Lazar very well, and one time Bob asked John "Do you want to go and see a disk fly tomorrow?".

Its all in here. www.greatdreams.com...

Art Bell interview of John Lear 11-2/3-03


John - Well! From that point - uh - you know - he kept - he was ... Well he worked from December 1988 to March 21, 1989, which will always be a date that we'll always remember and that ... the Tuesday before ... the 21st was a Wednesday.

The day before ... I was over to his house and he said, "Do you want to go and see a disk fly tomorrow?" I said, "Well, how?" and he said, "I know a place we can watch it and they always test on Wednesdays at sunset because that is the time this road is least traveled." So I said, "Okay! Let's go." So Gene Haupt and me and Bob got in my motor home and I think Bob's wife was with us and we drove up there - just south of the black mail box, which we didn't know about then.

Art - The now infamous black mail box...

J - Right! I set up the telescope and here comes this thing - from behind the mountains where Groom Lake was and it flitted around and I'm trying to focus this 8" Celestron telescope which was very difficult.

A - Bad idea!

J - But finally I go tit and I saw a disk that was oriented about 45 degrees to the horizon and it was glowing - it was yellowish orange and it was glowing - and it was settling back down behind the mountains and I said, "Quick Gene - take a look, (laughs) and as I stepped back from the telescope, I hooked the tripod leg and go tit off ... off the focus and of course, there's a big laugh about that - a nd at one time I had those tapes - all those tapes, but I'm moving out of my house now and I stored everything in the garage as far as tapes and UFO books, all the documents and everything and somebody came and stole half of it, including my UFO books and everything and I don't know who it was and I don't' expect it ... you know ... I think it was just an accident that somebody took that stuff and that tape is gone.

A - Well . a telescope of that power would actually give you pretty good resolution - if you really managed to get it and old the focus ..(unintelligible)

J - Well, I saw it - it was perfect. No doubt about it.

A - How much could you see beyond a glowing disk, John?

J - That was it!

A - That was it! No further details of the craft itself? Could you even estimate from distance - the size?



A - I've got a computer here and people can send questions as we go along and somebody is asking, "Well! That proves that Bob knew the schedule roughly of what was happening up there, but that doesn't necessarily prove the rest of his story." How confident are you that everything that you were told by Bob was right on the money?

J – You know - I'm confident that everything he told me was true and I've heard that argument also several times ... that he knew the schedule - but also and that maybe he was just a cook up there - so if he was a cook ... that means that they told the cooks when they were going to fly the flying saucers.

A - laughs - Yeah! That's a very good point - a very good point. But I'm gonna ...

J - There is no way I can prove all that happened, but I can just say ... "I believe it!"





[edit on 20/7/09 by spacevisitor]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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I'm surprised Whitley Strieber isn't on that list, considering his close relationship with Howe. Then again I can think of about a dozen more people who should be on it as well. UFOlogy is a capitalist microcosm filled with scam artists and plenty of suckers who "want to believe".

IMO anyone who cashes in on UFO field is discrediting themselves. There are plenty of ways to make a buck in this world. The truth shouldn't have a price tag on it. Consider it a civil service.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by subliminal1284
Also Bab Lazaar is a fraud.


Well I have met Bob, but not Friedman. What I have heard from Friedman doesn't sound to great either.

The biggest problem with this is when people in the UFO field start calling each other 'fraud' (as I did with Wolf) the whole thing breaks down.

Is this a competition?

"My truth is better than your truth"

"I am right you are wrong so you must be a fraud"

"Well so and so is 80% right but he is totally wrong about this"

Either you are an insider and have a whistle to blow or you are not. Which whistle blower do you believe? Look at all of them out there. Which one is right? Which one has credentials to back up that they worked where they claim to have worked? Henry Deacon claim ex LLNL did anyone EVER ask him to show a badge? Ken Johnston had papers, Jim Oberg tore him apart...

Where does it end?

In all the 'stories' out there from all these 'disclosure' people can we find TWO that tell the same matching 'truth'?

When you do find this... then you have something worth looking at a story confirmed by a second source.

And when a 'story' leads you directly to a source like Shiva Nova, then it is no longer a 'story' but a verifiable fact.

So until you have independent confirmation or have followed the leads to the source... a 'story' is just that a good 'story'



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:26 PM
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People are knocking the UFOwatchdog site.

I'm just looking at the site for the first time but I see they have a hall of fame with Stanton Friedman on it. He seems like one of the more respectable UFO researchers so that seems consistent with what I know.

In the hall of shame, most of these people I don't know much about, but some I do like Billy Meier, Jaime Maussan, and Ray Santilli and the Alien autopsy film. Seems to me like those 3 belong in the hall of shame. As for Greer, I got very excited when I first heard about the disclosure project, thinking "here's an educated man coordinating getting some witnesses together, this should be good"! Then at some point I began to wonder if Greer's elevator reached the top floor if you know what I mean.

Now a hoaxer to me is the guy who fakes stuff intentionally like Billy Meier. I'm really not sure if Steven Greer really falls into that same category or not, does he? I mean, maybe he suffers from a cognitive disorder, which would appear to me to be the case after reviewing his website. Cognitive distortion is not quite the same as an intentional hoax.


Originally posted by zorgon
And when a 'story' leads you directly to a source like Shiva Nova, then it is no longer a 'story' but a verifiable fact.

So until you have independent confirmation or have followed the leads to the source... a 'story' is just that a good 'story'

I agree about independent confirmation adding some level of credibility.

What is a Shiva Nova? I googled it and came up with various links like this and they are not what you're referring to I'm sure...

www.shivanova.com...

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Arbitrageur]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur
What is a Shiva Nova? I googled it and came up with various links like this and they are not what you're referring to I'm sure...


Nice group
but your right

But that is another thread recently verified by public release but because it could not be debunked, it fell off the table. Seems the only threads that stick are those that can be argued about. Funny how that works...

I'm tired... ask me later via U2U if your interested



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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It doesn't matter whether this is psychics, spiritualists or UFO researchers, as soon as these people claim they can provide proof of their particular interest if the money is right then I begin to turn off. . . If you can provide proof then you owe it to us all to share it with us without asking for a fee. If you don't you're just as bad as those who hide the truth from us.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.If you can provide proof then you owe it to us all to share it with us without asking for a fee. If you don't you're just as bad as those who hide the truth from us.


And when such proof is provided free... it gets buried in skunkworks or in threads that get little attention because there is nothing to debunk so it gets ignored

Owe it to you? On what grounds?

[edit on 21-7-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
If you can provide proof then you owe it to us all to share it with us without asking for a fee.



Okay there Commisar...

But saying things like "you owe it to us" - that ain't gonna get you too far either...



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 08:50 AM
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Well I think UFO researchers do owe us the truth especially if that truth contained hard evidence that we'd been visited by aliens! Something that big and that important deserves to be out there in the public domain not neatly hidden between the pages of some over priced book.

Wouldn't you agree?



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Bob Lazaar was asked college level physics questions and was unable to answer them. Thats all the proof I need to know hes a fraud.



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Wouldn't you agree?


Nope I see no valid reason as to why the public deserves to know the truth


What good would it do?

President dude steps up to the podium, say "Errr we have been lying to yawl and the aliens are real"

Okay so now what do you do?



[edit on 22-7-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Okay so now what do you do?


If that happened; I'd Sell!

...Sell all my stocks and bonds before everyone else starts doing the same.

Then I'd purchase cheapened stock in defense companies after the crash and get in on the 'new ground floor' of the war economy.

You and John could lease spaces in the mine as cover against alien attack. "Space is Limited - Insure your family's spot in the Bunker Now"

Then when they get down there, You can overcharge them for supplies.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Wouldn't you agree?


Nope I see no valid reason as to why the public deserves to know the truth


What good would it do?

President dude steps up to the podium, say "Errr we have been lying to yawl and the aliens are real"

Okay so now what do you do?



[edit on 22-7-2009 by zorgon]


Wow! I stand back in amazement. . . Why on earth do you post on this site when you aren't after the truth? I thought this is what it was all about, creating enough pressure that the truth leaks out!
Zorgon, surely you are not that apathetic that you don't care whether or not the truth comes to light? I've followed your posts for quite some time now and while I don't agree with all of your conclusions I readily accept you call it as you see it.
Do you really think yours, or mine, viewpoint doesn;t matter?



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole. Why on earth do you post on this site when you aren't after the truth?


I came here to seek truth... I share what I find that I think is relevant to that search...

But I have found that no matter what truth I post, no matter how much I back it up... only a small group of people see it for what it is. The vast majority will work hard to debunk it, or ignore it or call you disinfo because your truth doesn't match what they choose to believe




I thought this is what it was all about, creating enough pressure that the truth leaks out!


Take a look around you at the posts... do you see enough material here that will break down to doors of the secret vaults? Look at 911... eight years of terrorist did it/the government did it have we gotten any closer to any truth? No Have we made enough noise to have them reopen an investigation? No

We argue over blurry pictures and CGI UFO's, we have hundreds of threads on crop circles and still no proof if any are not man made...

I did a thread on Lunar tapes stored at an abandoned McDonalds with a pirate flag... what happened? Page after page of everyone with an opinion on how this story was pure BS... heck there is no such thing as an abandoned McD


Story was true and it was big and the work in the thread forced NASA into a press release to save face as the ATS thread reached far and wide...


Once they found it was real... they all ran away and the thread faded from view

And only a few paid attention



Zorgon, surely you are not that apathetic that you don't care whether or not the truth comes to light?


Heck no I'm not but the world is... Tell me which of the military projects I brought to light is your favorite?



I've followed your posts for quite some time now and while I don't agree with all of your conclusions I readily accept you call it as you see it.


That is nice... but I don't have any conclusions yet... only strong opinions backed by what I know as fact



Do you really think yours, or mine, viewpoint doesn;t matter?


In the long run? No it probably doesn't. If I did not have my website and stopped posting here for six months how many would really miss me outside my close friends? How many know Mike Singh is gone? I have a long list of people that were around like Bluebird, a space scientist... one day she just left, all her images gone too...had great stuff on Mars. I think maybe three people noticed Beerguy... gone after he sent me a detailed drawing to post on my site of a hydrogen cell... never heard from him again

People come here for entertainment. They like the battles, the debates, the arguments... its a rare day when someone writes you and says "Thanks you gave me something to think about"

You say you may disagree with my 'conclusions' but I ask how can there be disagreement on truth? It either is or it isn't. Like Shiva Nova Laser at LLNL, the Looking Glass at LANL, the Fusion rocket 1993 at Wisconsin U, the fossils on Mars thread using NASA and other scientist own data... these thinks are truth... yet they get flushed under the rug.

Why? because they cannot be debunked... and people cannot add much to it and are not allowed to just say "Great post
" So the thread falls off the table.

It was really funny when someone asked me "He Zorgon why don't you do a serious thread on Martian Fossils"

Ummm ya no problem get right on it


My mission? Find as much data as I can for me... then share what I feel people are interested in

The whole world? Not my problem... they don't really care anyway



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

Well being someone who follows your work on Pegasus and here on ATS I can only hope that your depressed feelings are temporary and you will soon continue your quest to reveal the truth. Being a regular reader of the Pegasus site I have to admit that I didn't know about mike singh disappearance from ATS.
Don't let the debunkers and noisy negativists get you down. If you believe what you're saying is right don't let anyone put you off from sharing your views with the rest of ATS.
Stay well Zorgon and continue the good fight.




posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.I can only hope that your depressed feelings are temporary and you will soon continue your quest to reveal the truth.


Oh I am not depressed
And I will continue... just a change in focus


More research less debate


Drop a bomb and run... see where it lands


[edit on 24-7-2009 by zorgon]



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