The Disclosure Project/Steven Greer a hoax?

Originally posted by Project MotherShip

And if you are doing your homework properly,
Dr. Steven Greer has been given the Stanley Meyer Water Dune Buggy.

Ah yes, the huge news, that...... NO ONE is talking about.

Imagine the implications if the technology works the way its claimed to, and if Greer and Dr. Loder are able to disclose it successfully!!!

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.After all, what does ones employment status have to do with ones honesty and integrity?

A lot when its back at Los Alamos . But what the heck you believe what you like. Next time he stops at John's place I will see if he will let me photo copy his new ID badge... Though I wouldn't count on it

One thing though The Sargent Wolf testimony however is so full of holes its like Swiss Cheese

Originally posted by zorgon

One thing though The Sargent Wolf testimony however is so full of holes its like Swiss Cheese

I agree.

What is this guy, an 'infiltrator' from the opposition?

Originally posted by Project MotherShip
And even though I am a strong Disclosure Project supporter,
I sometimes sympathize with some of the UFO Debunkers
in those newsgroups.

Well if your such a strong supporter maybe you can help clear this up for us...

Sargent Wolf...

When I first saw his testimony I even created a page on my site about him, but never really had time to look at it closely... mostly because I really anticipated that this Disclosure Project was the real deal and it would soon come out...

But someone started a thread on his video portion... and I looked at it this time in detail. There was always something nagging at me about it, never quite put my finger on it until I studied it and found the obvious smacking me up side the head with a baseball bat

Here is my post from the other thread...

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by frugal
Hello! How old is sargent Wolf? I was born in 1966, I am 43. My father was 23 at that time, would currently be 67 if alive. He was finished with college and masters degree in Engineering, EE degree from Purdue. This Wolf guy doesn't look 67 or older, he is not old enough to be telling this 1965 story.

Oh KKRRRAPPPP I feel really stupid right now.

For years I was bothered by this guy and his story... but I could not put my finger on it. It wasn't his looks that got me, (I have seen others in their 60's that still look younger) it was something else nagging at me

I just spent an hour trying to track down his date of birth and no where in any report is it mentioned... yet I can get that info on most everyone else I look for. Also I can't find anything on his service record... 'officially'

My biggest beef with the Disclosure project has been if they have something to tell, to hell with congress just TELL US and show the goods...

Okay now my stupidity... and my sudden flash of light...

In his interview in the OP at ;18 he says he worked at Langley in MID 1965!!!! on the Lunar Orbiter mission...

A FULL YEAR BEFORE THE FIRST LUNAR ORBITER PICTURES WERE TAKEN

The guy is an absolute fraud and liar

and I am pissed that I never looked at him in detail before...

First... the warehouse at Langley with the large photos...

That is true here is what it looked like... Time frame 1968...

What you see on the floor of the warehouse is the Lunar orbiter pictures

Lunar Orbiter missions flew ...
Lunar Orbiter 1 - Launched 10 August 1966
Lunar Orbiter 2 - Launched 06 November 1966
Lunar Orbiter 3 - Launched 05 February 1967
Lunar Orbiter 4 - Launched 04 May 1967
Lunar Orbiter 5 - Launched 01 August 1967

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Now about the images in the film... more lies..

Not the images... they are real, but the fact he is using those to back his story... So what is wrong with the image?

Well let me show you...

Here are three showing the coverup... The one in the video with the towers will be Number Three. I will give you link and coordinates to find them so you can see they are indeed real...

Item One (no coordinates yet seems I forgot to note them and will have to look them up again)

Item Two Lat -70 ~ Long 137

Item Three Co-ordinates Lat 64 ~ Long 265

This is the one focused on in the video..like the ones he saw in 1965

There is one object in this image that did not get covered up

Okay so the images are real enough, so what's my problem?

These images are from CLEMENTINE not LUNAR ORBITER

They NEVER went to Langley but to the NRL Naval Research Laboratory where they still are today

Pick 1 meter per pixel
Pick image size 768x768
Put in Long. and Lat. from above

Clementine Lunar Image Browser 1.5

The Naval Research Laboratory is not affiliated in any way with any organization selling lunar property or acreage on the moon. NRL has no involvement, either officially or unofficially, in providing "after-sales service" for the purchase of lunar property from the Lunar Embassy, its franchisees, or any similar organizations. Disputes arising from the purchase of lunar property from such organizations must be resolved with the seller directly.

NRL was responsible for the design, manufacture, integration, and mission execution of the Clementine spacecraft for the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization. During its two-month orbit of the Moon in 1994, Clementine captured 1.8 million images of the Moon's surface. The Laboratory provides the Clementine Lunar Image Browser as a courtesy to scientific researchers, as well as the general public, and you are welcome to browse the over 170,000 images that are available.

www.cmf.nrl.navy.mil...

Kinda puts a whole new light on Greer and the Disclosure Project when one of his star 'insiders' is a total fraud

Thanks frugal, for stating the obvious If I had the power I would give you an applause for that revelation

You have my thanks

The thread in question is here

alien bases disclosure
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So perhaps you could ask Greer why all these holes in the story big enough to drive a truck through?

Now I am going to have to seriously question the rest of the testimony

In this video...

video.google.com...

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Xtraeme
Just place yourself in his shoes.

Okay...
www.thelivingmoon.com...

For example, imagine if someone started posting disparaging comment about you, Zorgon, using your real name.

Been there done that... some of it is still out there like the Henry Deacon attack at godlike That is why you get yourself a 'support group'

But the BEST way to avoid ridicule is be honest and upfront with your info. I will give you he MAY have erred in saying 1965 but since the images didn't really get to Langley for the Defense mapping agency till 1967-1968 you would think that at LEAST Greer would have corrected him before going live...

Ridicule comes quicker when your caught with false data. Its hard to recover after that

How do I know the time frame on the images?

Because they come with a date stamp

Would you be upset with me if I started digging through your old posts, found all the instances where you've been mistaken (i.e. the Onion video in the Disclosure NSA style thread) and then started to insinuate that you hadn't simply made an honest error but were instead intentionally misinforming people?

Nope not at all... I correct errors but that Onion one is a bad example if you read the post following. Sensationalism yes... error no... Sensationalism works best here at ATS... I know I proved it already with my F'ossils on Mars' thread

But that is not the worst error , the date... the worst is the use of 1994 Clementine images to make a case for 1967 Lunar Orbiter story... The average person out there would have no idea of the difference and it certainly is NOT stated in the video that these are indeed Clementine not LO images NOR is there any image source data provided

That is the 'honesty' part I was talking about. Now if that is not an 'official' film than it needs to be addressed but it is what people are seeing and forming opinions on

Judging a person in a public manner, especially when the person optionally forgoes anonymity and exposes themselves to attack, is poor taste. The only time I think this is ever justified is when the facts (not interpretation) overwhelmingly demonstrate malfeasance.

Well let them add the Clementine 1994 data with image numbers and I will agree with you. Its not judging... its determining the truth. A simple statement that they made an error on the date would help, but there is no excuse for the subterfuge of the Clementine images because even though he claims those were like what he saw... that makes no sense whatsoever

Even then it's rare we have a 100% clear picture.

The Internet has a very long memory. Trashing a persons name should be a method of last resort.

Tell the other side that, Oberg, Bad Astronomy and any of a 100 here at ATS when talking about John, Lazar etc...

When someone can prove he was actually there in 1965 (+three years 'error' margin) and they come clean and CLEARLY mark the images as CLEMENTINE so the public is aware that they are 1994 pictures... I will reconsider

My info is offered freely... I do not get ad revenue, nor sell T shirts and other merchandise at the "Disclosure Store" nor take donations. My site and my work here is free though many have told me I am stupid ATS makes a good deal of money on member content as they can support many people full time in their business here... I get paid in stars flags and points...

To qualify as a whistle-blower doesn't require tangible evidence. It simply requires knowing something compromising.

Well marvelous... but he has already said everything he knows... there is no more... period... and that little bit has serious errors which he could very easily correct. I once pointed out to Hoagland that the image number is wrong on "Data's Head" Sent them the correct one... but if you look at the site the correction has not been made.

Its hard enough to get credibility in this field... just get me Wolf's DOB and we will take it from there... because I have had no luck yet through my channels

Physical evidence obviously helps, but whistle-blowing is just that, alerting others to something that appears to be below-board.

Physical evidence is what it will take to convince people.. Blowing whistle without backup just makes noise. Out of all the whistle blowers online today... how many do you tink are truthful? Especially when many contradict each other? Just adds to the confusion.

I went through an incident with one WB... I provided hard documentation on Looking Glass direct from the actual paper at LANL archives and linked to the secure LLNL Shiva Nova site at least 6 months before it went public. I expected a "Great job... you backed me up" response... instead I was blasted for being Psysops... my motive for posting the data was questioned and the material deleted... That same file here at ATS got stuffed out of site

whis⋅tle-blow⋅er –noun
a person who informs on another or makes public disclosure of corruption or wrongdoing.
dictionary.reference.com...

2. A person who figured out a way to make a name or make money by telling a cool story people want to hear but can do so without being required to prove anything, yet people just accept their word without question

Want a list?

Ken Johnston was a major WBer press conference set, promise of pictures, credential shown... look how that turned out

I think our disagreement here is over a difference in definition of whistle-blower. Whistle-blowing does not imply the person has systemic knowledge of wrong-doing.

If you stole a paper-clip from work and another employee informed your boss. That coworker would technically qualify as a whistleblower.

No one would care

, but that's besides the point.

However in the case of WBers in THIS field people DO care As it is a good 75-80% of people in this field are charlatans out for a quick buck. It means those that are serious have to be even more diligent to have it together.

I have been asked many times why there are no conclusions or summaries of belief on my website

Very simple... I don't have any conclusions yet ....just thousands of puzzle pieces many that fit together, many more that don't

Please check your bias and verify your claims before stating things that are patently false. You not only damage someone else's reputation, Mr Wolfe's in this instance, but also your own.

I don't have any bias... I actually tokk him at his word without really looking into it more closely... even have a page on his testimony. Sometimes I just don't have time to go over everything in detail and at the beginning I was sure the Disclosure Project was going to be THE THING that broke this wide open... well still waiting aren't we?

As to reputation...

A couple points In the google video he says the NSA brought in the information from the Lunar Orbiter curious that...

But at 51.1o he says they were doing 35 mm strips of film...

Well since the LO orbiter used 70mm film and the fact that the film was developed on board the orbiters and the original film crashed on the moon, do you not find that odd that he would say 35mm film strips?

The LO data was sent to earth by video data feed and recorded on TAPE. See my McMoon thread on the missing LO tapes and the attempt at restoration, the problem being there are no machines that can read that data anymore except the one found in a garage and restored by the McMoon tape

Then from that data they made 16x20 negative... we have some of those dang hard to get printed these day... so there would not have been 35 mm strips from LO only data tapes.

The strips on the images are the video data feed lines not strips of film

One might think you have a vested interest in this, but who knows?

Tell you what get me his date of birth so we have his age in 1965 and lets get a letter from Greer or someone in the group explaining my 'concerns' and if that gets answered satisfactorily I will print a retraction

At this point I don't buy what he is saying... just too many holes in it

reply to post by zorgon


You should start a thread exposing Wolf, that would probably get Greer's attention better than an email.

Plus, he will be under pressure to address the situation.

If you decide to start such a thread - you can count me in.

Heck Zorgon, you've got enough stuff in your posts on the matter to scrape together a nice OP.

Edit: Yup I've decided, We ought to shame them into making a statement. Lying to us for so long...

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Exuberant1]

Might do that on my site instead I have already mentioned it twice now. Too many threads on the same topics lately. its impossible to keep up

What I need to do is figure out WHY they would use such a blatant set of errors if they were serious. Perhaps its because few pay attention... of which I too was guilty even though I am an expert now on Lunar orbiter stuff

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Project MotherShip
And even though I am a strong Disclosure Project supporter,
I sometimes sympathize with some of the UFO Debunkers
in those newsgroups.

Well if your such a strong supporter maybe you can help clear this up for us...

Sargent Wolf...

Greetings Zorgon, I hope you are having a good day.

Apart from a mention here and there on the internet and the odd photos of blurry patches on a moon photo, that might even just be a blurry patch over nothing but moon dust ... the other place I read quick details about structures on the moon is in the book called Left At East Gate.

The men were taken to a room because they had possibly witnessed an ET UFO. In that room they were shown all kinds of photos and film. Including photos of un-blurred structures on the moon, to put across to the men that they had only witnessed a pin prick of all the stuff going on around Earth and the Milky Way Galaxy... and so shut up about it until the agencies find out more, before telling the war-beaten-starving-slave-like general public.

By the way, the war did us good. We kicked the crap out of each other to get cracking and finally develop weapons to then finally be able to kick the pants off some particular species of lurking extraterrestrials or negative multi-dimensional beings, etc. That's what is seemed like to me from a story I heard about Pine Gap.
i.e. They are defending themselves against bad non-human ghosts and/or bad ETs.

And if the general public ever find that just one species of evil advanced ETs were stuffing with us for 20,000+ years, pretending to be the old Holy Inquisition and not one of the "billions of others" in the Milky Way Galaxy did anything good about it, then I think most people are gonna say "fuzz-off all of you billions of ETs, we Humans will look after ourselves from now".
(On Earth, in the after life, and in our own motherships")

And that is gonna be a spooky ride, more spooky than aliens!
Because with the wrong people in power on Earth...
You Zorgon or Jim Oberg will never get the 'Royal Raymond Rife' cure all diseases simple technology, and you will be paying $500,000 for a tiny plot of land or rabbit hutch all your life, paying for gasoline that the Arabs want to keep us all on forever, getting cancer from breathing gasoline fumes, paying all your savings to cure the cancer, and then die.
And you might choose to return to the experience of life on planet Earth in about 100 years time, and at birth be chip implanted, educated in a factory, trip chair mind controlled every six months from the age of five, and never ever have a sane voice.
And only ever free after you die again, in the after-life again, but so messed up it takes the good light beings eons to return your old soul back to at least a level suitable to be able to play tiddlywinks with other old repaired souls!

But getting back to the moon...
Either there were/are non-man-made structures on the moon or there were/are not.

....... (next post) ......

........ (continued) .....


Sargent Wolf may have been one of several profile-honest-types that were targeted to be shown fake structures on the moon.
That would kick start psychological operations to allow anyone (not involved directly with money rolling high level NASA) to be swayed in any direction. ("because there are things on the moon, so shut-up about the wars, drugs, secrets, etc")

Sargent Wolf may have been shown real structures on the moon.
First I've studied astronomy, then all the UFO witness testimony.
That is enough to convince a logical educated person that we are not alone in this vast universe.

The moon is in a perfect orbit, and we never see the other side of the moon.
In our particular case on Earth, some ET species probably based their science research facilities on the moon, for the grand project of seeing every single detail of the mostly natural process of an animal in a common planetary jungle going from 'sniveling chimp' to 'mothership building human'. And that would be incredible data for an extraterrestrial species to own for many reasons! Including the buzz from Human emotional energy along the way...



And one more tip to add to the lot...

Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell has said to Robert O. Dean,
"it's not whether or not we went to the moon,
it's what we found on the moon that is the cover-up."


To finish up this post I was going to share some quotes, but they are all in my Sig.

Have a Great Day!



P.S.
An agency type popped into my old 'AceBryanCentral' UFO chat room (not online now) recently and asked me... "what drives you?"
(meaning what makes me work so hard everyday on these topics)
... My honest answer was... "The fact that all this information is here".


It's amazing.
And we Humans just have to all be nice to each other and care for each other, and then we will be OK.




[edit on 17/7/09 by Project MotherShip]

Greer is the Madoff of the UFO gravy train.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.After all, what does ones employment status have to do with ones honesty and integrity?

A lot when its back at Los Alamos

. But what the heck you believe what you like. Next time he stops at John's place I will see if he will let me photo copy his new ID badge... Though I wouldn't count on it

One thing though The Sargent Wolf testimony however is so full of holes its like Swiss Cheese

Johns place!!? Do you mean John Lear? Oh dear! So as far as you're concerned all witnesses can only be judged by their current employment status? When Lazar was busy on his computer supplying prostitutes with their clients details especially if they were police, he wasn't a good witness but now he's working at Los Alamos he is a good witness!!? This is a guy who claimed time and time again that he worked on classified UFO related aircraft out at Area 51 yet when he was asked what he did for a living in court he said he was an out of work photographer! This is the guy that even staunch UFO believer, Stanton Friedman calls a Walter Mitty like character. . .

You say that Sergeant Karl Wolfes testimony is full of holes. . . I would agree but I would also compare it to Lazars. Neither hold water!

Originally posted by Project MotherShip
Greetings Zorgon, I hope you are having a good day.

No but thank you for asking

the other place I read quick details about structures on the moon is in the book called Left At East Gate.

I don't doubt there are, but I do agree that the blurs in the Clementine images are not covering anything... because the same area in the color version does not have the blurs

i.e. They are defending themselves against bad non-human ghosts and/or bad ETs.

That is why we have the NAVY's space fleet that McKinnon is going to jail over

And one more tip to add to the lot...

Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell has said to Robert O. Dean,
"it's not whether or not we went to the moon,
it's what we found on the moon that is the cover-up."

Yes I am well aware of what Edgar is saying

[edit on 17-7-2009 by zorgon]

He gave us nothing and the best part:

www.youtube.com...

has some best part taken out or injected with low ether power ideas.
Can't tell if that clip is whole from the project video.
MIB telling people to forget about UFO craft.
Helium engines powers the UFO.
That might still be there.

Greer interviewed Lyne who has 1943 part suspiciously usefully
in saucers and has many of today's free energy from the ether
ideas but never used them to help open any dialogue and might
have helped close the doors by Bush and Cheney in the Los Alamos
library.

reply to post by Low Orbit


This is hogwash If you believe that the disclosure project was pretty solid, IMO you shouldn’t post something that is obviously lies and try’s to discredit a good movement. Some people will leave this thread thinking that the disclosure project is a hoax which is not true.

Originally posted by paradiselost333 Some people will leave this thread thinking that the disclosure project is a hoax which is not true.

Can you prove its not?

reply to post by zorgon


can you prove it is

Originally posted by paradiselost333
can you prove it is

Thought I just did with Herr Wolf's testimony



Can you counter that?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by paradiselost333 Some people will leave this thread thinking that the disclosure project is a hoax which is not true.

Can you prove its not?

Can't say I've ever believed in The Disclosure Project, but if you feel it is a hoax could you tell us why and how he got so many people together who strongly believe they have been part of the cover up?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Project MotherShip
And even though I am a strong Disclosure Project supporter,
I sometimes sympathize with some of the UFO Debunkers
in those newsgroups.

Well if your such a strong supporter maybe you can help clear this up for us...

Sargent Wolf...

When I first saw his testimony I even created a page on my site about him, but never really had time to look at it closely... mostly because I really anticipated that this Disclosure Project was the real deal and it would soon come out...

But someone started a thread on his video portion... and I looked at it this time in detail. There was always something nagging at me about it, never quite put my finger on it until I studied it and found the obvious smacking me up side the head with a baseball bat

Here is my post from the other thread...

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by frugal
Hello! How old is sargent Wolf? I was born in 1966, I am 43. My father was 23 at that time, would currently be 67 if alive. He was finished with college and masters degree in Engineering, EE degree from Purdue. This Wolf guy doesn't look 67 or older, he is not old enough to be telling this 1965 story.

Oh KKRRRAPPPP I feel really stupid right now.

For years I was bothered by this guy and his story... but I could not put my finger on it. It wasn't his looks that got me, (I have seen others in their 60's that still look younger) it was something else nagging at me

I just spent an hour trying to track down his date of birth and no where in any report is it mentioned... yet I can get that info on most everyone else I look for. Also I can't find anything on his service record... 'officially'

My biggest beef with the Disclosure project has been if they have something to tell, to hell with congress just TELL US and show the goods...

Okay now my stupidity... and my sudden flash of light...

In his interview in the OP at ;18 he says he worked at Langley in MID 1965!!!! on the Lunar Orbiter mission...

A FULL YEAR BEFORE THE FIRST LUNAR ORBITER PICTURES WERE TAKEN

The guy is an absolute fraud and liar

and I am pissed that I never looked at him in detail before...

Here are my thoughts about the above remarks.
Sergeant Karl Wolfe was in the US Air Force from January 18, 1964 until October 18 1968.
He did his testimony in September 2000 as stated in the book “Disclosure” from Steven Greer.
Frugal did his post and calculations on 17/7/09, that is 9 years later.

He had that experience around June or July of 1965.
Therefore, he did his testimony about it 35 years later.
Suppose that his age was around 25 when he joined the army, then he would be 60 on the moment of his testimony, so why can that not be correct.
Here is a video of him made on Wednesday, May 9th, 2001, together with twenty military, intelligence, government, corporate and scientific witnesses at the National Press Club in Washington, DC
Look to him in the video, can that not be a person from around 61 years?



Then the mentioned problem with his saying that he thought that the pictures where of the lunar orbiter.

Lunar Orbiter 1
Launched 10 August 1966 Imaged Moon: 18-29 August 1966

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...

In his testimony in the book disclosure, he said the following regarding the Lunar Orbiter matter.

At any rate, I was in a color lab one day when my boss, staff sergeant Taylor, came over to me and said that they were having a problem with some equipment on the base and it was the first Lunar orbiter program, where they had a mission to pretty much locate the first landing sites for the 1969 lunar mission for the astronauts.
So he said they were having a some problem with equipment over there.
It was similar equipment to what we had - it was computerized contact printing v.
He wanted to know if I would go over and take a look at it.
He said to me, it’s an NSA facility.
At the time, I didn’t know what NSA was – I was pretty naïve. I thought he said NASA.
So in my mind, for along time I thought it was a NASA facility that I had gone to.
So I was asked to go over to this facility on Langley Air Force Base, where the NSA was bringing the information from the lunar orbiter.

So what he said was actually right, it had to do with the first Lunar orbiter program.

Therefore, those pictures where most likely from Clementine then.

Clementine was a joint project between the Strategic Defense Initiative Organization and NASA. The objective of the mission was to test sensors and spacecraft components under extended exposure to the space environment and to make scientific observations of the Moon and the near-Earth asteroid 1620 Geographos.

The observations included imaging at various wavelengths including ultraviolet and infrared, laser ranging altimetry, and charged particle measurements. These observations were originally for the purposes of assessing the surface mineralogy of the Moon and Geographos, obtaining lunar altimetry from 60N to 60S latitude, and determining the size, shape, rotational characteristics, surface properties, and cratering statistics of Geographos.

Clementine was launched on 25 January 1994 at 16:34 UTC (12:34 PM EDT) from Vandenberg AFB aboard a Titan IIG rocket. After two Earth flybys, lunar insertion was achieved on February 21. Lunar mapping took place over approximately two months, in two parts.

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...

So my impression is that he was telling the truth.
Just my two eurocents.

add the NSA part.


[edit on 20/7/09 by spacevisitor]

Greer is just a quack and really hurts those doing serious UFO research. He sells 'kits' to signal UFO's to appear with flashlights.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by subliminal1284]