US Claims World Is Safer Because War On Terror

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Do YOU think its making the world any more safe?

The War on Terror is making America more safe, and powerful. And the War on Terror is bringing more freedoms to people around the world.

There were less attacks before the War on Terror, but they were bigger and were treated like crimes instead of acts of war.

UBL, and other terrorists were willing to blame the U.S. and attack us because they felt that America had lost its will and resolve to fight-back.

President Bush, has proved UBL wrong, and shown the world that attacking America is a bad move. And doing so will have great and grave reactions. We now are fighting more terrorists attacks because we have taken the fight deep into terrorist safe-zones.

They attacks are many but they are smaller, and they are far far away from American soil. The War on Terror is working well.

-- Boat

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
...........
So the Palestinians send Qassim rockets into Israel? Who invaded and occupied the Palestinian Territories? Even after a ceasfire is declared the Israelis continue to shell Gaza. Were the SOE-backed Maquis terrorists or legitimate resistance fighting an illegal occupation?

You didn't "deny ignorance", you demonstrated your own.
.................

Do you even know where the word "Palestinian" comes from? or what it means? or who lived in that region for thousands of years?

If you are trying to imply that the Israeli people are occupying a region which they never lived in in ancient times, you are wrong, and shows your bias against the Israeli people, as so many others do around here when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

BTW, the Arab people were mostly nomadic until Mohammed started uniting tribes.... Most of the Middle East had different ethnic groups which lived in those lands for thousands of years. Until the Muslim crusades began, and they began expanding their territories spreading Islam as they went.

BTW, the Israeli government gave part of it's territory to the Palestinians, and what did they do? Palestinian terrorists are using those areas which are closer to israeli towns and attacking from there.

Now the Palestinian government is ruled by a terrorist organization....and there are people who still want to blame Israel?....

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Muaddib]

I wasn't talking to you Howl, I was talking to Jamuhn

And with Beslan, I guess we can overlook the fact that the Chechyans took that school hostage to get Russian troops out of Chechnya.

So here we have a Muslim (Jamuhn) who says that taking a school full of children and killing them is a legitimate way to protest a war in Chechnya against a bunch of Jihadis.



The shame....

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by Boatphone
The War on Terror is making America more safe, and powerful. And the War on Terror is bringing more freedoms to people around the world.

There were less attacks before the War on Terror, but they were bigger and were treated like crimes instead of acts of war.

UBL, and other terrorists were willing to blame the U.S. and attack us because they felt that America had lost its will and resolve to fight-back.

President Bush, has proved UBL wrong, and shown the world that attacking America is a bad move. And doing so will have great and grave reactions. We now are fighting more terrorists attacks because we have taken the fight deep into terrorist safe-zones.

They attacks are many but they are smaller, and they are far far away from American soil. The War on Terror is working well.

-- Boat

*propaganda end*
I would like to address the "freedom around the world" laughable statement, but I think its safe to say the rest of the people on here know better.

there were less attacks before the war on terror, thank you end of story. we haven't made the world safer, but more under watch and scared. Everyone is on edge and terrorism is all i hear about on television. President Bush didn't prove anything. The only thing he has ever proved in his entire life was that hes inept. I wish I could say that for his administration, but they are far from Inept, they are purposely violent and confrontational.

It didnt make america safe or powerful unless america is now consisting of only rich CEO business men. I am not one of them....I am american...I live in america....I am not safe. My nation has not become more powerful unless when you say powerful you mean greedy and destructive. Then by all means you are correct, not even the devil could reach the powerful state we have. America isnt powerful and safe unless you mean america is another word for big business.

Whats a couple hundred thousand middle eastern lives give or take, right? wrong...dont be surprised when the kids that havent been killed from your dropped bombs turn into something worse then Osama bin Laden. You will have no one to blame but yourselves(yet you will still try and blame muslim religions for brain washing them, or something, because bombs killing their parents had nothing to do with it)

Originally posted by Nakash
So here we have a Muslim (Jamuhn) who says that taking a school full of children and killing them is a legitimate way to protest a war in Chechnya against a bunch of Jihadis.

First of all, you know I'm not Muslim (and this would be no insult for anyone who is). I've explicitly told you this. Secondly, I've explicitly told you what these people had done is not justifiable. Is your only defense with reason and logic to blatantly lie?

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by grimreaper797

there were less attacks before the war on terror, thank you end of story. we haven't made the world safer, but more under watch and scared.
................................

Really?.... you mean days like September 11th 2001?... that was two years before the wars in Afgahnistan and Iraq for your information...

Or the Islamic extremist attack on the WTC back in 1993?....

Or the OKC bombing?..... (search for The Third Terrorist on google for more info)

Or any of the other terrorist attacks before the wars in Iraq of Afgahnistan?...

I guess those don't count huh?....

I also guess that you don't want to count the "other jihads" which have claimed millions of lives around the world, yet some people just want to forget all of this and give terrorists "another" excuse for what they do....

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
I guess those don't count huh?....

Of course they count, that's what he said there are more now, as in less then. As in, they happened in the past too just not as much. Right?

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Of course they count, that's what he said there are more now, as in less then. As in, they happened in the past too just not as much. Right?

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Jamuhn]

What I understand he is saying is that allowing terrorists to run amok and without restrictions would have made the world safer...

Perhaps we should allow what the government of Sudan has done by declaring a jihad against non-Muslims and exterminating non-Muslims at least since 1983 to this day.

Perhaps governments should tell terrorists "hey, it's ok, we support you, go ahead and kill more civilians, we are not going to try to stop you because you hide behind civilians and when we fight against you, you use your children and civilians as shields, or to strap bombs in them to kill more "infidels"... We must surrender to you, so what else do you want?"....

That's the kind of message that grimreaper is seemingly to spread.... as well as others like him who seem to think that giving flowers to terrorists and trying to embrace them is going to stop them from killing more civilians in western cities, or even those within their own people who do not follow their extremist views.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by MuaddibWhat I understand he is saying is that allowing terrorists to run amok and without restrictions would have made the world safer...

Perhaps we should allow what the government of Sudan has done by declaring a jihad against non-Muslims and exterminating non-Muslims at least since 1983 to this day.

I don't think it's just Westerners that deserve to be spared from terrorism, whether foreign or domestic Muadibb and I doubt that this is what grimreaper was saying, although I do not want to speak for him. It seems rather that the way in which this "War on Terrorism" is being fought is actually creating more terrorism.

As far as the Sudan conflictS, it's more because they are African Muadibb and because they were (IMO rightly) rebelling against the Sudanese government. They rebelled before this time too. That ehtnicity is a major factor can be evinced by the fact that the "Arabs" are also exterminating Muslim "Africans" in Darfur. The fact that in Darfur they are exterminating Muslims right now does not matter to you? Is it only non-Muslims for you that deserve to be spared from terror? I don't think this is what you are saying, but you seem to be trying to skip right over the situation in Darfur.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
......................
The fact that in Darfur they are exterminating Muslims right now does not matter to you? Is it only non-Muslims for you that deserve to be spared from terror? I don't think this is what you are saying, but you seem to be trying to skip right over the situation in Darfur.

Not true, and even in the past I have started threads about what is happening in places like dafur. I have even spoken and given links with photos and videos of what happens to moderate Muslims in regions were Islamic extremism rules.

The problem is "Islamic extremism" which has been spreading even before the war on Iraq or Afgahnistan began.

Any form of extremism in which people want to exterminate a whole race/culture/ or those who think differently than them and have not attacked them, is wrong.

BTW, most of the civilians in Sudan are/were not armed, yet the government backed Arab militias and stopped food and medical shipments to those people that were not Arab.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
*propaganda end*

Just because it does not fit your world view doesn't make it propaganda. Let's not be silly.

I would like to address the "freedom around the world" laughable statement, but I think its safe to say the rest of the people on here know better.

Really? Well, so far the War on Terror has led to free elections in Afghanistan which allowed women to vote for the first time. It has also led to free elections in Iraq.

This is evidence of the fact that the War on Terror has spread freedoms to people around the world. I think you wish not to talk about it because you have no evidence to support your claim that it is somehow "laughable".

there were less attacks before the war on terror, thank you end of story.

No. Its not that simple. There was less attacks on our armed forces. Because now our armed forces are in harms way bringing the fight to the terrorists.

There were still many attacks before the War on Terror, and they were on a larger scale and on the soil of free nations. Like America.

For example:

-- The 1986 bombing of a disco in West Berlin (Germany).

-- The 1988 bombing of PanAm Flight 103.

-- The first bombing of the WTC in 1993.

-- The attacks on the U.S. embassies in Kenya & Tanzania in 1998.

-- The bombing of the USS Cole in 2000.

-- The 9/11 attacks.


I think if you looked into the War on Terror more you'd find that it is good for America, and the world.

-- Boat

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Boatphone]

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Boatphone]

alright fine you want to go in and play the innocent card? yea ok lets go look at the CIA opperation done under CIA director Allen Dulles. Over thowing Irans government, installing a pro US dictatorship? you are found guilty on this one.

Lets see supplying billions of dollars and weapons to sadam, supplying billions of dollars worth in weapons to iran, supplying billions of dollar worth in weapons to saudi arabia, then the same in israel. then lets let the iran-iraq war spark off after we have sold them these billion and billions of dollars in weapons. as one starts to win, we support the other side, then when the table change we switch sides. pretty much made sure they killed as many as possible in the region to further weaken it. That was for profit, no democracy excuse there. your are found guilty on this one too.

Lets take a look at all these situations, stop ignoring the real past. you remember the attacks, but not the reason they occured. im sure you would like to believe these terrorists just hate freedom, but apparently you dont hear yourself to realize how stupid and pointless that sounds. Now the US give weapons to your enemies and your country so you can go to war and let millions die of your people...hmm sounds like a reason. our 9/11 was nothing to the lives they have had to live at our expense.

Screw you and your "safe" world because you know what, if these places are so free go move there and find out just how safe and free they are. You havent made anybody safe but your own greedy politicians. Thats the way its been working since the 40s-50s.

Your war on terror has ruined my life personally. After 9/11 my life was changed forever...and not because of the "terrorist" attack but because of your primitive ways of handle such a situation. So now, 5 years later, I can look at you, now educated of the situation thats ACTUALLY going on and say you make me feel disgraced. Disgraced that I have to say Im part of all this, this corruption. I love the land that I live in but I despise the people running it, and those people supporting them.

Im so sick of wonder when the next attack is going to come because of OUR actions as a nation. I get to watch as your stupidity and primitive nature destroys everything around me. Your fighting and wars, and you call yourselves defenders of peace? You wouldn't know what peace is, your too busy trying to fight everyone.

As an american, I am disgraced that people can say we are making the world safer, yet wouldn't dare to even visit these places. I am sickened by the fact you start a war but wouldnt dare televise it live. Its to gruesome? YEA well thats war, and if you want to start it you should see what happens. I want you to look at each dead soldier, each parents eyes, and if you can still tell me that all that is worth this never ending fight well then I can't even consider you human.

Are you so blind you cant see all the people dying in front of you? Thats the only way you could claim its safe.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
alright fine you want to go in and play the innocent card? yea ok lets go look at the CIA opperation done under CIA director Allen Dulles. Over thowing Irans government, installing a pro US dictatorship? you are found guilty on this one.

Yes, guilty of a good policy. We needed to have a stable government in Iran that would be friendly with the West. If we had not restored the Shah to power then Iran would have fallen to Soviet influence and force.

By doing this we help avoid a confrontation between the West, and the Soviet Union.

Also, the Shah extended suffrage to women, a good thing!

Lets see supplying billions of dollars and weapons to sadam, supplying billions of dollars worth in weapons to iran, then lets let the iran-iraq war spark off after we have sold them these billion and billions of dollars in weapons. as one starts to win, we support the other side, then when the table change we switch sides.

Saddam's Iraq went to war with Iran on its own. He made that choice because of his greed for power. Yes, we supplied weapons (at times to both, but far more to Iraq) because if either side won a complete victory it would mean trouble for the United States.

If the United States didn't supply weapons to Iraq-Iran then other nations would have. Nations like Russia, France, Italy, Germany.

Those nations went to war with each other, and kept fighting mean after the U.S. tried to end the fighting. In fact, the Ayatollah Khomeini declared that agreeing to end the fighting was like "drinking posion" for him.

pretty much made sure they killed as many as possible in the region to further weaken it. That was for profit, no democracy excuse there. your are found guilty on this one too.

No, Iran & Iraq made sure to do that.

im sure you would like to believe these terrorists just hate freedom

I don't see how you can possibly say that they don't hate freedom. All the facts support this...

-- The terrorists in Iraq threatened to kill anyone who took part in voting.

-- The Wahhbists (like bin Laden) teach that voting is a sin.

-- The terrorists teach that allowing women to vote, or show their faces in public is against the law.

-- They teach that all people must conform to Islam or be killed.

Does this sound like a group of "freedom lovers" to you?

Stop making absurd arguments, with no evidence to back up your wild lambasting.

Screw you and your "safe" world

Screw me? You don't even have a basic understanding of the Middle East, if you did then you would be making such a fool of yourself.

-- Boat

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Boatphone]

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Boatphone]

Originally posted by Boatphone
Yes, guilty of a good policy. We needed to have a stable government in Iran that would be friendly with the West. If we had not restored the Shah to power then Iran would have fallen to Soviet influence and force.

By doing this we help avoid a confrontation between the West, and the Soviet Union.

Also, the Shah extended suffrage to women, a good thing!

your hopeless. its a good policy to overthrow governments for your own personal use? Guess what, I know its hard to believe, but there are innocent people in these countries. I KNOW, it must be hard to grasp that there are actually people that aren't extremists in the middle east, but its true. The fact you put them under a oppresive regime so you could have a west friendly government sickens me. Sounds more like your trying to convert the world to democracy just because you believe any other way is dangerous...kind of sounds like the christians back in the middle ages.

Saddam's Iraq went to war with Iran on its own. He made that choice because of his greed for power. Yes, we supplied weapons (at times to both, but far more to Iraq) because if either side won a complete victory it would mean trouble for the United States.

yea, trouble not for the US people but the businesses. Face it, we as the people don't need to be involved in this. You would rather have millions killed in the middle east then see the US have a bad business year. Without our support, where would either country be? There wouldn't be much threat huh? O BUT COMMUNISM WAS SPREADING! yep and I guess that was a real big threat. a system that collapses on itself, real danger. but we didnt know...so I guess ignorance justifies the deaths of millions of middle eastern people.

If the United States didn't supply weapons to Iraq-Iran then other nations would have. Nations like Russia, France, Italy, Germany.

maybe, but I would like to know first. Why would russia supply them arms if it wanted to take it over?

Those nations went to war with each other, and kept fighting mean after the U.S. tried to end the fighting. In fact, the Ayatollah Khomeini declared that agreeing to end the fighting was like "drinking posion" for him.

supplied them both with billion in guns knowing they wanted to fight eachother, hand trouble fully ready...who would have thought a war would have started. O no we can't control it... I guess it wasn't the best idea to give saddam chemical and biological weapons, and give Iran tons of weapons too. we can't stop them now...who would have thought that would happen. hey lets see what happens if we take two people who hate eachother, give them machine guns, then tell them its legal to kill eachother and no one will get in trouble...wonder what will happen.

No, Iran & Iraq made sure to do that.

and who gave them the means to do so? even knowing it would happen?

I don't see how you can possibly say that they don't hate freedom. All the facts support this...

-- The terrorists in Iraq threatened to kill anyone who took part in voting.

-- The Wahhbists (like bin Laden) teach that voting is a sin.

-- The terrorists teach that allowing women to vote, or show their faces in public is against the law.

-- They teach that all people must conform to Islam or be killed.

Does this sound like a group of "freedom lovers" to you?

Stop making absurd arguments, with no evidence to back up your wild lambasting.

I'm sure they are the same terrorists like Zarqawi...o wait the petagon made up some lies about him to make him seem 100X worse, I wonder what else was a lie? It couldn't possibly be the support for Israel, an invading nation in their eyes, that couldn't be it. Plus Israel has always been the good guys. Couldn't have been the bombs dropped on their people, or the biological and chemical weapons you gave to the dictators of these nations which lead to the deaths of their families or friends. No way because lets face it, since the dawn of time, terrorists have been fighting freedom, is was never about revenge. Tell me, where were these terrorists before Israel was created? Apparently freedom was still pretty big back then, yet wheres the terrorists? O right, they popped out from the ground with an anti-american ideal planted in them from birth saying we hate freedom, how could I be so naive. You really have no idea what this region has gone through at the price of our actions do you?

Screw me? You don't even have a basic understanding of the Middle East, if you did then you would be making such a fool of yourself.

-- Boat

and you do?!?!? AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. yea right, your good policy lead to the deaths of millions. but you know what you fully know what its like to watch your villages get bombed by your bordering country, while your dictator threats to kill your family if you don't fight for him. You have a great understanding of what its like to have bullets flying by your head knowing that if you try to pull out, your family will get killed. You have a great understanding of what its like to know a village got gassed because the dictator didn't agree with them, and the US supplied him with the means to do it. You must have a great understanding of all this right? I doubt it, you live in america, the land of the ignorant people who refuse to believe their government would sacrifice the lives of millions in the middle east if it meant military contracts and cheap oil fields.
Thanks for the view of your great understanding, I can really see how you understand the region.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
...........
So the Palestinians send Qassim rockets into Israel? Who invaded and occupied the Palestinian Territories? Even after a ceasfire is declared the Israelis continue to shell Gaza. Were the SOE-backed Maquis terrorists or legitimate resistance fighting an illegal occupation?

You didn't "deny ignorance", you demonstrated your own.
.................

Do you even know where the word "Palestinian" comes from? or what it means? or who lived in that region for thousands of years?

If you are trying to imply that the Israeli people are occupying a region which they never lived in in ancient times, you are wrong, and shows your bias against the Israeli people, as so many others do around here when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

If you are trying to put words in my mouth...

Palestinians (Muslims who are not from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, the Republic of Syria et al) have been in Palestine for a lot longer than Christians have been in Australia.

In ancient times the Romans also lived there, does that make the place Italian? I have no bias against the Iraeli people. Until Ariel Sharon visited the Dome of the Rock and kicked off the second Intifada I almost always sided with Israel, as the only stable democracy in the region.

But modern Israelis are not David's Jews and religious Jews from France, or the US, are not ethnic "Gallilleeans". Many modern Israelis have far less of a right to live in Israel than the Palestinians do in Palestine.

Do you know what the Trans-Jordan was? Do you know the correct meaning of the word Semite or who the Semitic people are?

BTW, the Arab people were mostly nomadic until Mohammed started uniting tribes.... Most of the Middle East had different ethnic groups which lived in those lands for thousands of years. Until the Muslim crusades began, and they began expanding their territories spreading Islam as they went.

Make up your mind. Now you're saying they've lived there for thousands of years...

BTW, the Israeli government gave part of it's territory to the Palestinians, and what did they do? Palestinian terrorists are using those areas which are closer to israeli towns and attacking from there.

Sorry, whose territory? The Gaza Strip, the West Bank and East Jerusalem have never been Israeli territory. East Jerusalem and the West Bank were annexed by Jordan in 1950 after the first Arab-Israeli War and occupied by Israel in 1967. The Jordanians have relinquished all claims on the Palestinian territories. Do you know how much Palestinian territory has been seized by the building of the "Security Barrier"?

Now the Palestinian government is ruled by a terrorist organization....and there are people who still want to blame Israel?....

Well, the US is ruled by George W Bush and Dick Cheney.

The President of the Palestinian authority is from the Fatah party and the Palestinian people exercised their democratic rights and elected the government of their choice. Didn't you invade Iraq to give it democracy?

Again, make up your mind. Do you want democracy in the world or not?

BTW Hamas exists only because Israel occupied the Palestinian territories in 1967.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Jamuhn
......................
but you seem to be trying to skip right over the situation in Darfur.

Not true, and even in the past I have started threads about what is happening in places like dafur. I have even spoken and given links with photos and videos of what happens to moderate Muslims in regions were Islamic extremism rules.

...

BTW, most of the civilians in Sudan are/were not armed, yet the government backed Arab militias and stopped food and medical shipments to those people that were not Arab.

You've started threads and yet you don't have the facts.

None of them are Arabs. They are all black Africans. The term used is "Arabised" (which is just ugly) because some of those black Africans wear Arabian-style clothes and worship in Arabian-style mosques and the central government imposed Sharia Law, despite a huge English-speaking Christian minority in the south.

The Janjaweed are as black as their victims.

You've seen Blackhawk Down, right? Did you see any olive-skinned Saudis in it? The Sudan is in the same region, Darfur is bigger than France, so where did these "Arabs" come from? Sudan's neighbours are Chad (black), Ethiopia (black), Eritrea (black), Uganda (black), the Congo (black), the Central African Republic (black), Egypt (blck in the south) and Libya (okay, mostly not black).

Prefer to stay at a distance one this one but must support what grimreaper797 is saying. Spot On!

Boatphone it sounds as if you've drank the kool aide??

I didnt wake up today and worry about a terrorist killing me, nor did I the day before 911 or the day after. Terroism has existed for thousand of years and will exist as long as human exist in this universe. The cold war ended, the military industrial complex called America needed a new war. 911 nicely fit that need.
To me it is laughable that Bush and Co. want the war on terror to end, if it ended their prime tool to keep people like you under control would be gone. So they continue to spit forth fear of attack from bin laden etc. and there seemingly mythical ability to kill anybody, anywhere, at anytime.

So Boatphone go ahead put some "freedom isnt free" stickers on the back of your car. Pretend that killing a few hundred people in the middle east for "spreading democracy" (read: pipeline in Afganhistan, oil in Iraq) is just fine, and also pretend that those thousands of dead wasnt the largest terrorist act by any person/nation in recent times.
Explain to me how killing all those innocent people is helping America? Lets say your an Iraqi boy who can now vote at 18 but a US bomb killed your 4 brothers and sisters, mother, father and destroyed your house, what do you want to be when you grow up

Grimace, what a crazy joke on anyone (or any Nation) hoping to believe in such garbage.

Dallas

edit: "Any Nation"

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Dallas]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Lets see supplying billions of dollars and weapons to sadam,

Would you care to give a link that backs your claim?

The countries that were owed "billions" of dollars were Japan, Russia, France, China and Germany.

Which countries are owed the most money by Iraq?
Iraq's Gulf state neighbors are owed the most, at $30 billion. Japan is next at $9 billion, Russia at $8 billion, France at $8 billion, and Germany at $4 billion.

www.cfr.org...

China is not in the list above, but China has claimed that Iraq owes them billions of dollars too.

China to waive Iraq debt if given greater role in rebuilding
(AFP)

29 February 2004

ABU DHABI - Beijing is ready to forgive a big part of the estimated 5.8 billion dollars owed to it by the previous regime of Saddam Hussein if Chinese companies are allowed into major rebuilding projects in Iraq.

www.khaleejtimes.com.../business/2004/February/business_February633.xml§ion=business


ABU DHABI - Beijing is ready to forgive a big part of the estimated 5.8 billion dollars owed to it by the previous regime of Saddam Hussein if Chinese companies are allowed into major rebuilding projects in Iraq.

OUTSTANDING CONTRACTS
The odious debt doctrine would also seem to apply to the $57 billion in outstanding contracts, mainly to Russia, France and China. Many of these claims are for questionable contracts for oil exploration and development. As noted, Resolution 1483 sets up a procedure for the evaluation of outstanding contracts. However, it is not clear whether the UN will have ultimate authority to approve or disqualify a contract.

72.14.207.104...:pDeMDDNWtwUJ:crisis.wakeful.net/2003/MERIA_Iraq_debt.html+SAddam+owed+billions+to+Russia,+France+and+China+for+wea pons&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=14

And the main exporter of weapons, including wmd, to Iraq is.

Moscow has important economic assets in Iraq:

A Soviet-era debt of $7 billion to $8 billion, generated by arms sales to Iraq during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war. Adjusted for inflation, that debt is worth from $10 billion to $12 billion today.

Lucrative contracts to develop giant oil fields and wells in Iraq, signed by Russia’s major oil company, LUKoil, and the government-owned Zarubezhneft and other companies. These contracts, worth as much as $30 billion over 20 years, include the Western Qurna oil field and wells already developed by the Russian oil companies Slavneft and Tatneft.

Trade in Russian goods under the U.N.–sponsored oil-for-food program, worth between $530 million and $1 billion for the six months ending in December 2001 (the volume of illegal trade between Russia and Iraq is not known).

www.heritage.org...

Not to mention what Russian military defectors have said about how long Russia has been supplying weapons, and even emd to Iraq.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
supplying billions of dollars worth in weapons to iran,

i guess the Middle East, including Iran, is known for having American weaponry huh?.... again, give links to back your claim please...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
supplying billions of dollar worth in weapons to saudi arabia,

Link please...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
then the same in israel.

FYI it was FRANCE who gave Israel it's nuclear weapon's program....but I guess people like yourself like to leave this out.... Read the following link and inform yourself, which you should have done instead of spouting any and every exageration and lie that came to your head...

For reactor design and construction, Israel sought the assistance of France. Nuclear cooperation between the two nations dates back as far as early 1950's, when construction began on France's 40MWt heavy water reactor and a chemical reprocessing plant at Marcoule. France was a natural partner for Israel and both governments saw an independent nuclear option as a means by which they could maintain a degree of autonomy in the bipolar environment of the cold war.

www.fas.org...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
then lets let the iran-iraq war spark off after we have sold them these billion and billions of dollars in weapons. .........

Provide link, reliable please, nothing from Rense.com or Alex Jones..., that the U.S. sold billions and billions of dollars of weapons to Iraq and Iran respectively...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
your are found guilty on this one too.

You are found guilty of exagerating and lying...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Lets take a look at all these situations, stop ignoring the real past. you remember the attacks, but not the reason they occured. im sure you would like to believe these terrorists just hate freedom, but apparently you dont hear yourself to realize how stupid and pointless that sounds.

Yeah kid....this is what is stupid....







Very peaceful people huh?... BTW, do note who they say is going to be attacked....

You can find those pictures and more at

michellemalkin.com...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
I love the land that I live in but I despise the people running it, and those people supporting them.

Well I guess you being 16 years old and not knowing what happens in the real world but instead want to believe the exagerations and lies from the left is not helping you much...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Your fighting and wars, and you call yourselves defenders of peace? You wouldn't know what peace is, your too busy trying to fight everyone.

We are trying to fight everyone?... Try to find who is behind most conflicts/wars in the world and then tell us kid... I'll give you a hint "Islamic extremists"..

Originally posted by grimreaper797
I want you to look at each dead soldier, each parents eyes, and if you can still tell me that all that is worth this never ending fight well then I can't even consider you human.

I kind of find it strange that a 16 year old is trying to tell me about war...
Yes wars are brutal, more so when insurgents/terrorists use children, women and old men as shields, they strap bombs in children or desillusioned and brainwashed children like yourself to kill soldiers/civilians.

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Muaddib]

(continued)

Not to mention that even Children in many countries in the Middle East, mostly those who live in Islamic countries ruled by Sharia law, are used to fight also. Many of these kids first toy are wodden rifles, and the next upgrade Russian/European made weaponry.

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Muaddib]