US Claims World Is Safer Because War On Terror

Fact one, After the US involvment in IRAQ there hasnt been a single act of terrorism in continental USA.
FAct two, There is much more awareness and greater pressure on terrrorists in the world today that ever before.
Fact three, due to the unprecedented levels of policing in the USA it is much much harder for terrorists to operate inside the USA.

In short, the USA has taken the fight to the terrorist's door step and we wage war in their living rooms. While we threaten their nations and pull down their walls of protection we also seek to punish all those who let this evil pass unchecked, guilty of indifference.

In the words of the late Golda Meir the USA also seeks to -" cut off the hand of the ones who hurt us. "

Originally posted by IAF101
Fact one, After the US involvment in IRAQ there hasnt been a single act of terrorism in continental USA.

Fact one: United States Of America isn't the World. USA is a Union, North America is a continent. Are you saying Iraq was the HQ for all of the terrorist problems of the World? Iraq did, under Saddam, support suicide bombings in Israel and gave money to their families, but there was no clear link to Al Qaeda. Amercia citizens are now targets, more than before, in certain areas of the World due to US involvement in Iraq. Final point, define "terrorism"

FAct two, There is much more awareness and greater pressure on terrrorists in the world today that ever before.

Fact two: It hasn't change. There has always have been, especially in Europe and Israel. Britain, France, Spain etc have had 100 of years of terrorism Britain has had terrorism since the 1800s. Israel has suffered decades of terrorism. Middle East has always suffered from terrorism.

Fact three, due to the unprecedented levels of policing in the USA it is much much harder for terrorists to operate inside the USA.

Fact three: Again, America isn't the world. And you are wrong, America does have a large number of domestic terrorist groups which is very alarming, ranging from Animal threats, Fundo-Christains, Neo-Nazi's, etc. All are active and are worrying the FBI.

The statement and title of this thread is about the World being a safer place, not the United States of America.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by infinite]

The administration and all departments have to justify this some way, and this is it..
It's pathetic.. It's just feeding the poor sheep people what they want to hear.. It's the DONT think method.. Dont think we'll just feed you crap and you'll believe it. It's sad and pathetic

Originally posted by infinite
...............................
under Saddam, support suicide bombings in Israel and gave money to their families, but there was no clear link to Al Qaeda.

Wrong....fact 1. There was a clear link between Iraq/Saddam and Al Qaeda, the link that was not clear was if Saddam had any involvement in 9/11....there is a difference. I have given before excerpts from several countries who all say the Iraqi regime was involved with Al Qaeda, and even in Spain authorities there found that there were links between Al Qaeda members and the Iraqi regime even in 9/11 but for some reason this information is not made readily available to people.... and then people like yourself keep pushing such evidence through the back door trying to play in your political blame game.

Originally posted by infinite
Amercia citizens are now targets, more than before, in certain areas of the World due to US involvement in Iraq. Final point, define "terrorism"

....American citizens have always been targets of terrorism, now terrorism is more in the news, which is one of the reasons why people are more aware of what is happening with terrorists, and we have soldiers from many countries fighting those terrorists, including American citizens and legal residents of the U.S., not to mention citizens of other countries.

Originally posted by infinite
Fact two: It hasn't change. There has always have been, especially in Europe and Israel. Britain, France, Spain etc have had 100 of years of terrorism Britain has had terrorism since the 1800s. Israel has suffered decades of terrorism. Middle East has always suffered from terrorism.

Wait, first you say there is more terrorism now and now you say it hasn't changed?

Make up your mind please.

Originally posted by infinite
Fact three: Again, America isn't the world. And you are wrong, America does have a large number of domestic terrorist groups which is very alarming, ranging from Animal threats, Fundo-Christains, Neo-Nazi's, etc. All are active and are worrying the FBI.

Yet when it comes to blaming anyone for anything, such as the intelligence gathered about Saddam's WMD program some people seem to think the world of the U.S. since these people want to blame only the U.S.....

Originally posted by infinite
The statement and title of this thread is about the World being a safer place, not the United States of America.[edit on 11-5-2006 by infinite]

Is it better to go fight terrorists in their own turf rather than waiting and hoping they "get tired of attacking western cities"?.... You betcha.

Leaving Islamic terrorists run amok is not going to help anyone and it's not going to stop them from comitting terrorist attacks.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by Muaddib]

The world is not safe as long as Bush is in power, sad but true, even our country is in the greatest danger ever and is not due to terrorist.

But from within our own government.

Sad times are coming our way.

Originally posted by marg6043
The world is not safe as long as Bush is in power, sad but true, even our country is in the greatest danger ever and is not due to terrorist.

But from within our own government.

Sad times are coming our way.

Right...and tell us Marg, who is in most conflicts around the world at the moment?...

The U.S.?.... NO.... Britain?...... NO..... Islamic extremists?.....YES....

Despite the "opinion" that many members in ATS have, Islamic extremism is the major problem in the world as we speak and it has been so for a while now, even before the wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan started...

Sad times have been around for a while now....

[edit on 11-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Not to mention that even Children in many countries in the Middle East, mostly those who live in Islamic countries ruled by Sharia law, are used to fight also.

Hey - isn't Saudi Arabia; A BIG USA ALLY, and not to mention a BIG BUSH FAN, also a Shari Islamic States? And if I am not mistaken, it is one of the Islamic states with the Hardest form of Sharia. I guess you do not have a problem with them at all. And I guess your precious president and his imperial war hawks also do not have a problem with that at all. We won't see any carpet bombing on Saudi Arabia, will we?

Naaaaaaaaaaaah!

Why not?

House of Saud.

House of Bin Laden.

House of Bush.

Period.

Souljah,

House of Bush? What does that even mean?

Are you telling me that you don't think EVERY SINGLE US PRESIDENT SINCE WWI HAS NOT BEEN FRIENDLY WITH SAUDI ARABIA?

And why is that? The strict Islamic law? No, it's because Saudi Arabia is the worlds largest provider of oil. The world needs oil.

Basics Souljah, Basics...

-- Boat

Originally posted by Boatphone
House of Bush? What does that even mean?

You know what that means?

Here's a Hint:

Prescott Bush
George Herbert Walker Bush
George Walker Bush

House of Bush - House of Saud

House of Saud

House of Bin Laden

Are you telling me that you don't think EVERY SINGLE US PRESIDENT SINCE WWI HAS NOT BEEN FRIENDLY WITH SAUDI ARABIA?

Ain't that a Big Piece of HYPOCRISY, dude?

They can practice Sharia - and nobody has a problem with that.

They Execute Women - and nobody has a problem with that.

Ain't that a Byatch?

And why is that? The strict Islamic law? No, it's because Saudi Arabia is the worlds largest provider of oil. The world needs oil.

Correctumondo!

Nobody touches them - since they have plent of Oil.

How Convenient!

Basics Souljah, Basics...

Basics of CAPITALISM - not Basics of Demoracy, Liberty and Justice for ALL...

Souljah, They are desperate. Things have reached a desperation point, i think we are about to peak, and Boatphone and the rest are now taking their last ditch efforts to rip us up.

Its not going to work. You cannot twist evil and turn it around and make it look ok.

I hear the Hannity website is looking for the rabid to help usher in this dictatorship.
Its free.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Not to mention that even Children in many countries in the Middle East, mostly those who live in Islamic countries ruled by Sharia law, are used to fight also. Many of these kids first toy are wodden rifles,

You gotta be $hittin' me...Atreidies you've sunk really low with this one, this is just pathetic.

When I was a kid all I wanted for Christmas was a toy rifle, the more realistic the better. I don't remember the Australian government using me to fight.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by infinite
...............................
under Saddam, support suicide bombings in Israel and gave money to their families, but there was no clear link to Al Qaeda.

Wrong....fact 1. There was a clear link between Iraq/Saddam and Al Qaeda, the link that was not clear was if Saddam had any involvement in 9/11....there is a difference.

Yes, the clear link was the fact that Saddam told Bin Laden's envoys to stick it in their ears. The terrorists in Iraq were the Abu Nidal Organisation. Abu Nidal himself died in Baghdad in November 2002

Saddam paid a lump sum to the families of suicide bombers and was the only country to support the government of Lebanese Prime Minister and acting-President Michel Aoun, a Maronite Christian, in his dispute with the occupying Syrians.

Originally posted by Souljah
Basics of CAPITALISM - not Basics of Demoracy, Liberty and Justice for ALL...

All systems of government need oil Souljah, and all Presidents have kept up the important and freindly relations with Saudi Arabia.

I agree with you that Saudi Arabia has a bad human rights record with women, that's why I'm so happy that now (thanks to President Bush) that women have the right to vote in Afganistan!

Your argument will always be weak when you try to blame all the world's problems on President Bush.

-- Boat

Originally posted by Souljah
Basics of CAPITALISM - not Basics of Demoracy, Liberty and Justice for ALL...

All systems of government need oil Souljah, and all Presidents have kept up the important and freindly relations with Saudi Arabia.

I agree with you that Saudi Arabia has a bad human rights record with women, that's why I'm so happy that now (thanks to President Bush) that women have the right to vote in Afganistan!

Your argument will always be weak when you try to blame all the world's problems on President Bush.

-- Boat

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
When I was a kid all I wanted for Christmas was a toy rifle, the more realistic the better. I don't remember the Australian government using me to fight.

Did you get the matching suicide-bomb-belt to go with that rifle?

Arafat pioneered the use of children-bombs in restaurants.

Originally posted by Boatphone
All systems of government need oil Souljah, and all Presidents have kept up the important and freindly relations with Saudi Arabia.

I agree with you that Saudi Arabia has a bad human rights record with women, that's why I'm so happy that now (thanks to President Bush) that women have the right to vote in Afganistan!

Your argument will always be weak when you try to blame all the world's problems on President Bush.

-- Boat

thanks for NOT addressing the issue. basically what your saying is "well its bad for saudi arabia to have such a system, thats why its great we 'freed' afganistan!"???

ok but what does that have to do with the fact that we care more about our oil relations then we do about freedom? But don't get me wrong I never blamed our problems on bush like your saying the other poster is, I know bush couldn't possibly be that smart. Theres alot more people involved that play more of a part behind the scenes.

One common ground between you and me is we are both tired of hearing people say its bushes fault. Difference is, I know that when bush is gone that we will still be pulling the same BS, republican or democrat.
Also it seems like you and some others are believing its impossible to get off of oil and have peace. I would say differently...just if it wasn't our current government. And when I say government don't mistake that for bush, I'm talking about the entire government...and capitalistic system running it.

I'm currently thinking about leaving this site. Not just because of the fact we fight but never really listen, but the fact its doing nothing. Whats my freedom of speech worth if I can't act on it because the laws would have me on a terrorist list? It gives me little comfort to sit here and talk about it, but when it comes to doing something about it I'm affraid that if I go against the system that I'll be a target/suspect.

Maybe this works for you but when I see so many people unhappy out here, but nothing ever gets done, it feels like talking just isn't doing anything. ya know, I can say whatever I want right now, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still here, still unhappy, and still surrounded in stress. Still surrounded in a system that doesn't have me in its interests.
"an old woman can sit, an old man can sit, a chump can sit, a coward can sit, anything can sit. Well you and I have been sitting long enough, and its time we start doing some standing"-Malcolm X

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

You gotta be $hittin' me...Atreidies you've sunk really low with this one, this is just pathetic.

When I was a kid all I wanted for Christmas was a toy rifle, the more realistic the better. I don't remember the Australian government using me to fight.

Pathetic?...no, it shows your ignorance which is different...

Iraq's insurgent children learn how to become killers
AQEEL HUSSEIN IN LATIFIYAH AND COLIN FREEMAN
IN BAGHDAD
SITTING cross-legged on the mosque floor, the 12-year-old boys listen avidly as the tough-looking man in front of them holds up a rocket-propelled grenade.

"Be careful of the Americans, but don’t fear their vehicles and technology," he says, turning the diamond-shaped warhead before a dozen pairs of widening eyes. "You see this small bomb? It can destroy any US Army Humvee and all the soldiers inside."
.................
The number of hardcore fighters might now be only about 3,500, a fraction of previous estimates of 20,000.

Iraqi authorities, meanwhile, are already noticing a dramatic drop in the age of attackers.

"The ringleaders are paying kids to do a lot of their attacks now because they have lost a lot of the senior people," said Lieutenant Asif Khamel, a senior officer at a US and Iraqi-run police station in the Sunni Triangle city of Baquba, where a 12-year-old boy was recently arrested during a mortar attack.

"The people attacking us are getting a lot younger. We recently arrested three kids aged 17 or so who killed some police officers."

Hisham Hussein, a policeman in Baghdad’s notorious Haifa Street, added: "I would say we have about 50 children aged 15 to 16 fighting here, and some as young as nine or 10 who are used as spies. Recently we arrested four 13-year-olds during an attack on our forces."

scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...

BTW, I did mention extremist Islamic countries which are ruled by Sharia law.....

Is Autralia and extremist Islamic country which is ruled by Sharia?


So yeah....keep running and howling....

Originally posted by Souljah
Hey - isn't Saudi Arabia; A BIG USA ALLY, and not to mention a BIG BUSH FAN, also a Shari Islamic States? And if I am not mistaken, it is one of the Islamic states with the Hardest form of Sharia. I guess you do not have a problem with them at all.
.............

Hey could you tell people around here why is it that Osama Bin Laden has vowed to destroy the House of Saud?....

Any idea at all why?....

Let me try to refresh your memory...

Members of the Al Saud royal family and Saudi officials, historians, activists and religious leaders


In a rare interview, then-Crown Prince Abdullah, now the king of Saudi Arabia, answers questions about democracy in his kingdom, his 2002 visit with President Bush in Crawford, Texas, and how the struggle today with Al Qaeda and other fundamentalists compares to his father King Abd al-Aziz's confrontation in the 1920s with the fervent Wahhabi Islamists, the Ikhwan. This interview, translated from Arabic, was conducted by producer Martin Smith on Dec. 11, 2004 in Riyadh.
...........

A Saudi attorney, Bassim Alim was among a prominent group of Saudis who in early 2004 petitioned the royal family for reforms, including constitutional changes and a larger role for women. He discusses why young Saudis today are attracted to extremism and why political change is the strongest weapon for combating radical Islamists. "Those extremists who would further confuse society, would be simply exposed for what they are." As for the prospects for change, he says, "… reform is yet being debated by the top people in the ruling family. I would say that some of them are perhaps pushing for some kind of reform; others are resisting it. But nothing concrete is going to be done until we have a consensus." This interview was conducted by producer Martin Smith on Dec. 6, 2004 in Jeddah.
....................

A historian at Riyadh's King Saud Univerity and a crusader for women's rights, Dr. al-Fassi grew up in the '60s and '70s, a time of relative liberalization in the kingdom before the retrenchment in the 1980s. Dr. al-Fassi talks about what an ordinary woman growing up in Saudi Arabia can expect, how religious leaders preach women's inferiority to men, and why she is cautiously hopeful change is coming, but slowly. "It's not coming smoothly. Every time they are coming forward, they are going backward … some more steps." As an example, she cites the country's first elections on Feb. 10, 2005 for half of the municipal councils. So far only men can participate, but she is happy that women joined forces to protest being excluded. "We were very active in the media … This was, from our point of view, a big success, because we made a difference, we didn't stay still." This interview was conducted by producer Martin Smith on Dec. 10, 2004 in Riyadh.
................
Prince Bandar has served as Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the U.S. since 1983 and in this interview speaks candidly about the problems within his own country, about relations between the U.S., Saudi Arabia and other Middle East governments, and about Saudi Arabia's role in the fight against terrorism.

www.pbs.org...


You cannot expect changes to come in the blink of an eye. Yes, it is true that there are many problems in Saudi Arabia, but they are changing slowly for the better. But since this does not fit in with the view of the souljah.....

Originally posted by Boatphone
All systems of government need oil Souljah, and all Presidents have kept up the important and freindly relations with Saudi Arabia.

Tell me - which country in the World, has the largest OIL consumption?

Actually you already know that answer, right?

And let's not get down to the Carlyle Group - Numero UNO Warprofiteer - and their contracts with House of Saudi and House of Bin Laden.

Oh yeah - Business as usual; nothing more, nothing less.

I agree with you that Saudi Arabia has a bad human rights record with women, that's why I'm so happy that now (thanks to President Bush) that women have the right to vote in Afganistan!

YaY!

Everybody is SOOOO Happy!

Now let's go to Saudi Arabia and ask the women there if THEY are happy.

Let's go ask 126 Children Reported on Death Row, if thy are HAPPY.

AI - Saudi Arabia

The violations were perpetuated by the strictly secretive criminal justice system and the prohibition of political parties, trade unions and independent human rights organizations. Hundreds of suspected religious activists and critics of the state were arrested, and the legal status of most of those held from previous years remained shrouded in secrecy. Women continued to suffer severe discrimination. Torture and ill-treatment remained rife. At least 48 people were executed. Over 5,000 Iraqi refugees continued to live in Rafha camp as virtual prisoners. International non-governmental human rights organizations were denied access to the country and the government failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by AI during the year.

So - why do they DESERVE that?

How come nobody wants to LIBERATE those people?

How come nobody wants to REMOVE THAT OPPRESIVE REGIME?

How come nobody wants to get rid of the original TALIBAN?

Your argument will always be weak when you try to blame all the world's problems on President Bush.

Well, not just Bush.

There is also this guy Rumsfeld.

And then there is DICK.

And there is his friends in PNAC.

And then there are his friends in AIPAC.

And several more...

But first and most imporant thing here is OIL - and PROFIT.

Oil-Hungry US Ignores Human Rights Abuses Of Saudi Arabia

[edit on 12/5/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by infinite
Fact one: United States Of America isn't the World. USA is a Union, North America is a continent. Are you saying Iraq was the HQ for all of the terrorist problems of the World?

The USA is in this war against terrorism to protect its own citizens FIRST, make no mistake about this. Just as Britain is fighting to protect its own citizens. All allied nations fight to protect their people against the ravages of terrorism and if the majority stand up and do the right thing then that makes the world a safer place. The US campaign in Iraq has diverted the terrorist infrastructure into holding onto what they have rather than trying to attack a foreign nation.

As far as George Bush is considered as long as American soil is free from terrorism he has succeeded in preventing terrorism. If the leader of your nation- Tony Blair is not capable of doing the same then I would say that you can only blame him and his party, not the USA or its president for your misfortunes.

Iraq did, under Saddam, support suicide bombings in Israel and gave money to their families, but there was no clear link to Al Qaeda. Amercia citizens are now targets, more than before, in certain areas of the World due to US involvement in Iraq.

Saddam's complicity in the support of terrorists and his links with terrorists have been proven already. One mustn’t confuse this with the absence of WMD's in Iraq. Moreover it is not IRAQ that matters but the fact that the US has taken the battle into the Arab world, knocking on the terrorist's door. While they are locked in a fight for existence, while their safe havens are torn down and their blanket of security shredded they are put on the back foot, forced to fight for survival rather than wage war.
American citizens have always had to face threats and dangers far more than any other nations people, with exception to Israel. The ongoing war against terrorism had added little to pre-existing threat. In fact now most countries provided more protection to American citizens than ever before. Also American consulates worldwide are more prepared to deal with such threats.

Fact two: It hasn't change. There has always have been, especially in Europe and Israel.

The European insouciance in dealing with terrorism is to blame for the lasting terrorism. The world today is more aware, more cautious of terrorist threats than ever before. The situation is much more difficult for terrorists. Try taking a box full of box cutters as hand luggage today and see what happens! The war on terror has created a greater level of vigilance both for external threats and internal threats.

Fact three: Again, America isn't the world. And you are wrong, America does have a large number of domestic terrorist groups which is very alarming, ranging from Animal threats, Fundo-Christains, Neo-Nazi's, etc. All are active and are worrying the FBI.

Again the world isnt America's or Bush's responsibility.
What you consider terrorist groups are not necessarily seen as terrorist groups by the government. Name one terrorist attack in continental USA after the 9/11 attacks.
There are groups of varying viewpoints in every society and being a free society they are tolerated within the bounds of the constitution. One cannot classify these groups as terrorists in the same league as Al-Qaeda or Hamas but neither can we rule out their potential to cause disruption. But the proof of the pudding lies in the results and the results are in favor of the governments efforts against terrorists.

The statement and title of this thread is about the World being a safer place, not the United States of America.

The USA is the 3rd largest country in the world and in being so holds sway over a major part of the world and a safe USA means a safer world.

Fact is; the World will never be completely safe from war or terrorism or calamity, all we can do is try our best .


[edit on 12-5-2006 by IAF101]