US Claims World Is Safer Because War On Terror

lol propaganda and lies, because ya know, the government is spreading lies that they are the bad guys

maybe this "propaganda" is actually the exact opposite. maybe the news stations telling you the world is safer now because of a current war is the propaganda. I mean its obvious the world isnt any safer...A WAR is going on. i wouldnt expect it to be any safer, but the least they could do is say "yea, right now its hard because we have people fighting us, things are at its worst. We hope that after such hard times, peace may overcome all of the violence that has been created" but not, that couldnt possibly work to make the people unite, they have to lie to us and say what we are doing has already worked and is working right now. what BS, it just shows that people rather have that immediate result rather then long term goals.

War in general will cause the world current struggle and violence, duh its a war. We have to be winning the war though in order to be behind it. We dont bother to look in the long run of any war. They have to lie to us or else we wouldnt be behind it. In the end, none of us want to see the true nature of war so we are only behind it till the times get hard. Unfortunately, these same lies have destroyed us. Only something truely worth fighting for would we need no lies.

But in the end i guess its not about us, its not about the iraqi people, its not about the middle east conflict, its about rich mens personal benefits. i dont see how it goes any other way. We claim we are making their society better while ours goes right down the tube. If they looked at the true nature of our society they would have every reason to fight this system being installed in their country. They dont see freedom, they see capitalism.

We arent fighting for freedom, thats a joke. We arent even upholding freedom in our own communities, we uphold capitalism, we uphold money values, but nowhere do we uphold freedom.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Since when has there been love from Europe towards the U.S.? Never in fact, and that hate has been brewed and imported into the United States.

Oh, I don't know, maybe around 1945. What, with the liberation and the billions of dollars from the Marshall Plan...

I think the West Berliners didn't exactly mind when JFK visited.

The US was always pretty popular when you went east, you know, places like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary...

So that's your justification, is it, Paul Atreides? That Europe has always hated the US anyway, so why bother listening to them?

Good luck with your new globalism strategy...

More often than not and for the past 90 years, at least, the U.S. has been hated by many nations around the world, even when the U.S. was one of the few, or the only country who has gone to help other countries when they needed help.

BTW, i still remember since the beginning of the war that president Bush did say this was going to be a long battle and things were not going to be easy.

You also forget that as the Commander in Chief he should be optimistic about the future. Yes, there are many problems in iraq, but a lot of good things are happening over there too. Not everything is bad.

You all are forgetting, or for some reason want to deny that we are at war with Islamic extremists. Several nations have been victims, even before the war in Iraq and Afgahnistan, of those Islamic extremists... Several times these people have tried to attack other nations just like they attacked the U.S., Spain, and Britain.

(AP) Ten Islamic militants were convicted and sentenced to prison Thursday for a plot to blow up a crowded Christmas market on New Year's Eve 2000 - a bombing that a prosecutor said was avoided "by a hair" and could have triggered the first bloodbath of the new millennium.

The suspects - Algerian nationals and French citizens of Algerian origin who included an alleged associate of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden - were sentenced to prison terms of one to 10 years for their roles in the foiled attempt to strike the market in the eastern city of Strasbourg.

www.cbsnews.com...

And they want to continue to try and try until they succed. Which is the reason why we can't give up.

France's Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin said Tuesday at the First World Conference on Bio-terrorism that after al-Qaeda groups were smashed in Afghanistan, international terrorist groups were still working on chemical and germ weapons in Georgia's Pankisi Gorge.

The French Interior Minister emphasizes that nowadays terrorists are highly likely to use weapons of mass destruction including germ weapons. He added that some documents recently became available and they prove al-Qaeda was seeking access to biological weapons and developed methods for use of these weapons. When the Talib regime was overturned in Afghanistan, some of the projects were proceeded with in Pankisi Gorge close to the Chechen border, the French Interior minister said.

english.pravda.ru...


Many people for some reason want to claim that it is all lies, there are no terrorists or they are just made up by the government. Yet the truth speaks louder than any fantaties any of you might want to create because you don't want to accept that the enemy is not the U.S. government.

Even when evidence such as what happened in Spain when spaniard authorities surrounded some Islamic terrorists who were planning on making more attacks in Spain, and these people seeing they couldn't get out blew themselves up killing police officers some of you seem to want to forget this sort of evidence and want to keep believing "it must have been the U.S. government".

The truth is that the enemy could be anyone, and this is why many of you are afraid and want to place the blame on something tangible, something you know. In this case a government.

Men/women are often afraid of what they don't know, and an enemy that could be anyone, is too much for some people to accept.

This is what I see happening. The same happens when a woman loses her child, first she is in shock, then she denies it, then she tries to blame someone for her child's death, even if they are not responsible for what happened. I have seen this happen many times.

I see a lot of people who don't want to accept that we are fighting a global war on terrorism, we are fighting groups of people who have the goal to destroy everything that the west represents. It has come to the point that it is either them, or us. (and I am talking about Islamic extremists)

[edit on 1-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Oh, I don't know, maybe around 1945. What, with the liberation and the billions of dollars from the Marshall Plan...

You mean like what Gordon Sinclair mentioned back in 1973?....

The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

www.tysknews.com...

I was raised in Europe in the 80s, and many Europeans even back then had disdain and hatred towards the U.S... Even if they were importing jeans, music, and parts of the lifestyle from the U.S.

Things haven't changed in the world, the U.S. is still called a warmongering nation, the hatred that was present in Europe has now crossed the waters and is present in the U.S. also.

[edit on 1-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Since when has there been love from Europe towards the U.S.? Never in fact, and that hate has been brewed and imported into the United States.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Oh, I don't know, maybe around 1945. What, with the liberation and the billions of dollars from the Marshall Plan...

Originally posted by Muaddib

The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

www.tysknews.com...

i had to rebold your source because it was the key word. NOW, not in 1945, but now they are doing it. Never is not true because they did back then. Just because they are doing it now, doesnt mean it was always there. Had to point that out.

Originally posted by grimreaper797

i had to rebold your source because it was the key word. NOW, not in 1945, but now they are doing it. Never is not true because they did back then. Just because they are doing it now, doesnt mean it was always there. Had to point that out.

That was printed in 1973 buddy. When Gordon said "now" in present tense, he was talking back in 1973, not 2006...

I can see you didn't read even the beginning of that link.

"LET'S BE PERSONAL"
Broadcast June 5, 1973
CFRB, Toronto, Ontario
Topic: "The Americans"

www.tysknews.com...

This part is very interesting. The whole thing shows history does repeat itself.

Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over… has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.

www.tysknews.com...

Now some people are going to come up and say "but the U.S. is the richest country in the world".... Well, the U.S. has forgiven everyone's debt, but the whole world does not return the favor to the U.S, not even one nation.....

BTW, Gordon Sinclair is dead, he died in 1984. I am sure he would have written something similar today if he was alive.

[edit on 1-5-2006 by Muaddib]

yes 1973, which is not 1945 now is it? He said back in 1945, then you refer to and article from 1973. How is that the same time as what he was referring to? you knowingly show it was 1973, yet you still comment it as proof like it was from 1945?

Originally posted by grimreaper797
yes 1973, which is not 1945 now is it? He said back in 1945, then you refer to and article from 1973. How is that the same time as what he was referring to? you knowingly show it was 1973, yet you still comment it as proof like it was from 1945?

You really have to be dense not to understand what is being said in that statement by Sinclair...

Perhaps reading the whole statement will make you understand what he is talking about....if you still don't understand it, after reading the whole thing, then just let it go....

Anyways, the point is to show that the U.S. has been hated and despised by europeans and others for a long time, it is nothing new.

unfortunately you must be pretty dense to not read the stuff your posting and even quoting. when he says now, that 1973...still not 1945. read what he says.
"NOW, they are printing..."
as in 1973 apparently. still not 1945 though.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
unfortunately you must be pretty dense to not read the stuff your posting and even quoting. when he says now, that 1973...still not 1945. read what he says.
"NOW, they are printing..."
as in 1973 apparently. still not 1945 though.

....What Gordon Sinclair said is that countries which the United States helped (even back in 1945....)are now (1973) denouncing the U.S., calling the U.S. names, (warmongers.. which is happening these days too...) and forgetting that they did not even paid one cent of that money the U.S. gave them....

Really grimreaper, that's the excuse you are giving now to dismiss what this man said?....

Anyways, the main point is quite simple... The United States has helped many countries, yet we get backstabbed everytime, even by those same countries which the U.S. has helped so many times....

The hatred seen by people in Europe, and even some in the U.S., is nothing new at all...

There is always some excuse for some people to "try to spread hatred against the U.S."

You don't want to accept that, it's your choice, and your problem...

[edit on 2-5-2006 by Muaddib]

im not denying they probably hated us in 1973. point is though, thats not 1945 when the other poster was talking about. You dont think they were bashing us WHILE we were giving them money now do you? point being, we are giving money around for help, we are giving money are so they dont get sick of our bullying and freak out on us.

the world doesnt like us, and its pretty obvious WHY they dont like us. Dont act like you dont know about all the BS they pull. they claim to help yet let genocides happen. They claim to help but when it comes down to it, they only help the people that they can screw later out of their natural resources.

truth is, they took our pay off money, then said screw off. they dont just not like us, they hate us. Just because they need us right now doesnt mean they dont wish we would fall off the face of the planet. When the entire world starts to hate you but you dont see anything wrong, something isnt right.

EDIT: but then again i havent liked the US government since after WW2. after 1900 government started to change for the worse. but thats just because capitalism started to spread. then globalism. This has caused most of our problems, because we arent being heard anymore. Any politican you vote probably has been bought out completely. so yes, i strongly dislike the US since it doesn't even represent what it was founded off of.

[edit on 2-5-2006 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
...............
the world doesnt like us, and its pretty obvious WHY they dont like us. Dont act like you dont know about all the BS they pull. they claim to help yet let genocides happen.
...............

Now that would be an oxymoron.

First....in order for no genocide to have ever happened the U.S. would have to have gotten involved in everyone of them.... Then again people hate the U.S. for getting involved in other countries, even if it is for being involved to stop genocide.... And it's not like the U.S. has a magic wand that it can wave anytime it wants to and make "genocide" stop...

Anyways....the reasons why Islamic extremists don't like us is, first we are in the way between them and them their plan of exterminating the people and the State of Israel.

Second, we are a major superpower, the biggest right now, and we are not a Muslim nation.

So "don't act like you don't know why they hate us grimreaper".

Part of the reason why half of the world doesn't like us now is because "everyone has their own vision of what a superpower should do", and everyone wants to control the U.S.

Ever heard the song "Everybody wants to rule the world"?.... It doesn't say "every nation wants to rule the world" nor "every government wants to rule the world"....

Some believe they can solve anything and everything with peace, and that the world can be ruled by peace, an ideology which realy has nothing to do with the real world.

Some people hate the U.S. because there are many minorities, and minorities have power too in the U.S.

Some people hate the U.S. because there are laws which restrict the use of illegal drugs, and some people want anarchy instead of a Republic.

Anyways, everybody "has their own vision of what the U.S. should do with it's power" and since the U.S. is noone's puppet, not even Israel's like some want to claim, lots of people hate it....

I know some people in these forums hate the U.S. government because they can't use illegal drugs they want to use, others hate it because they want to be an isolationist country, etc, etc....

Since you can never satisfy everybody, there will always be somebody who will hate the U.S.

BTW, for every person that hates the U.S. there are 100 that wants to start a new life in the U.S.... But lately only the voice of the minority "those who hate the U.S.", can be heard, which gives the illusion that everyone and their grandmother hates the U.S.

[edit on 2-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
First....in order for no genocide to have ever happened the U.S. would have to have gotten involved in everyone of them.... Then again people hate the U.S. for getting involved in other countries, even if it is for being involved to stop genocide.... And it's not like the U.S. has a magic wand that it can wave anytime it wants to and make "genocide" stop...

how do you know they hate them for stopping a genocide since the US has never gotten involved in a war to stop a genocide? It doesnt have a wand, just one of the largest military forces with a budget big enough for world domination, so yea i think they could have a pretty big effect if they were looking to preserve peace rather then preserve profits.

Anyways....the reasons why Islamic extremists don't like us is, first we are in the way between them and them their plan of exterminating the people and the State of Israel.

not entirely. you were right up to the exterminating part. They never once said "we want to exterminate the jewish people", nor anything like it. Wiping israel off the map is for land rights. They are in their land as the muslims see it, this is why they want them gone. Did you see this major religious war before they wanted to make israel the jewish state? not nearly like it is now. when they started to make israel the "spiritual homeland" for the jewish people, it went downhill. then when they made it the jewish state it went completely to hell. am i saying that it does or doesnt deserve to exist? no. im not one to say, but i can say that its the cause of the instability, and you cant deny that.


Second, we are a major superpower, the biggest right now, and we are not a Muslim nation.

So "don't act like you don't know why they hate us grimreaper".
you forgot the weapons we gave their countries dictatorships to blow eachother straight to hell. the billions of dollar we gave iran and iraq to go to war with eachother. Im sure the people dont much like us for that. Giving sadam the weapons to gas his own people, im sure they didnt like that either. these people have plenty more reasons to hate us then just the religious reasons. religion was the factor, until we got involved with all the things going on over there. They dont hate china nearly as much as us, and i would say china is the next rising super power. we cause nothing but problems in the middle east.

Part of the reason why half of the world doesn't like us now is because "everyone has their own vision of what a superpower should do", and everyone wants to control the U.S.

Ever heard the song "Everybody wants to rule the world"?.... It doesn't say "every nation wants to rule the world" nor "every government wants to rule the world"....

agreed. but what we are doing is beyond what other countries want. its causing danger to the world. we are wacking a bee hive of extremists willing to blow themselves up. This is causing a world wide threat, and our cowboy clint eastwood attitude toward threats to the US makes things alot worse.

Some believe they can solve anything and everything with peace, and that the world can be ruled by peace, an ideology which realy has nothing to do with the real world.

thank god your not in any term of power. theres a difference between defending yourself and flat out wrongfully attacking. We are not defending ourselves, because unless they bring a nuke into our country, they cant reach us. But im glad you have no control over affairs with the primitive attitude that peace is unrealistic. You ever in the military, sounds like something they would say.

Some people hate the U.S. because there are many minorities, and minorities have power too in the U.S.

Some people hate the U.S. because there are laws which restrict the use of illegal drugs, and some people want anarchy instead of a Republic.

Minorities thing i could say maybe is a possibility, but not sure.
Also maybe some people just dont like the idea of a central government ruled by corporation. I personally dont like a central government in charge of domestic affairs. We should all just own guns and local communities make the laws. your area makes your laws. The people of the area get heard this way.

[qoute]
Anyways, everybody "has their own vision of what the U.S. should do with it's power" and since the U.S. is noone's puppet, not even Israel's like some want to claim, lots of people hate it....

lmao yea RIGHT! the US is such a puppet for corporations its not even funny. To say that the government wasnt behind 9/11, yea i could definately consider that. But to say something like the government isnt completely bought out by big business....lets take a step back into reality. lol "US not a puppet" hahaha

I know some people in these forums hate the U.S. government because they can't use illegal drugs they want to use, others hate it because they want to be an isolationist country, etc, etc....

trade wise america cant be isolationist. One thing we have become completely dependent on is foreign trade. Eventually we could ween ourselves off it but that will never happen because its not profit effective for businesses. why do you keep bringing up drugs?

Since you can never satisfy everybody, there will always be somebody who will hate the U.S.

BTW, for every person that hates the U.S. there are 100 that wants to start a new life in the U.S.... But lately only the voice of the minority "those who hate the U.S.", can be heard, which gives the illusion that everyone and their grandmother hates the U.S.

not really, i dont know what US your living in. Maybe your in some rich neighborhood where the top 1% are getting their tax cuts, but around here everyone cant stand what america has become. 9/10 people i talk to think that the entire administration needs to just be removed and we need to restart because of how bad that is, and they feel the rest of the government is just as bad. So maybe in your little isolated neighborhood everyone is happy, but around here, we are pissed.

Muaddib:

Yes, there are many problems in iraq, but a lot of good things are happening over there too.

Name five good things that have happened in Iraq since January 1st of this year.

I see a lot of people who don't want to accept that we are fighting a global war on terrorism, we are fighting groups of people who have the goal to destroy everything that the west represents.

Yeah? What does the West represent?

It’s what the West represents to THEM. An imperial, capitalist, murderous economic beast that rolls over them and their children so that some white folks in Schenectady can have cheaper prices on their gas.

I mean, wtf do you think the West has been doing to Africa, the Middle East, lots of Asia, etc, for HUNDREDS OF YEARS?

They don’t hate our freedoms. They don’t hate our customs.

They hate us because our governments have run roughshod over them and THEIR right to pursue happiness, to benefit US. And most of us have done nothing, so yeah, we are guilty of letting it happen. Ignorance is no defense, either.

It has come to the point that it is either them, or us. (and I am talking about Islamic extremists)

?! Isn’t that totally alarmist? How many Islamic extremists are there in the world? Let’s say 250,000, which is a super high estimate. They’re somehow going to wipe out all of Western Civilization? Huh? With what? Western Civilization is BIG, most of us will be fine.

If there is a terrorist attack, some will die, but you know what, life goes on.

Is your life that much more important than these people’s childrens’, starving to death every day while they hear that the biggest health problem Americans face is OBESITY?!

Puh-leeeze.

So "don't act like you don't know why they hate us grimreaper".

Oh, and you do, in your simple, clear Dr. Seussian world? Give me a break. Illuminate me as to why they hate the West, then, if you would. I’m all ears.


Oh, and what country do you live in that you have opinions that are so ignorant and divorced from actual history and reality? Can I guess?


-jako

ps. Yes, the War on Terror has made the world safer. FOR TERRORISTS.

Originally posted by Muaddib
First....in order for no genocide to have ever happened the U.S. would have to have gotten involved in everyone of them.... Then again people hate the U.S. for getting involved in other countries, even if it is for being involved to stop genocide.... And it's not like the U.S. has a magic wand that it can wave anytime it wants to and make "genocide" stop...

Tell that to the Rwandans...you know, the place where nearly 1 million died in 100 days..."Sorry, we don't have a magic wand, but we could bomb Serbia into submission."

After WW2 America led the call saying "Never again." Unless you're Cambodian, Rwandan, Congolese, Ugandan...

You know why people hate the US? It's because you tell the world you're the leading light of democracy, you describe the US president as "the leader of the free world" and then you spend 18 years propping up a dictator like Pinochet who led a coup against the democratically-elected president and initiated death squads and torture of political opponents. You lecture China on human rights abuses, while maintaining a gulag on the soil of a foreign country where prisoners are held without charge or trial indefinitely...The world hates you because you are the world's biggest hypocrites.

You went into Kuwait in a real hurry but seemed unable to get your arse off your hands when it was Serbians invading Bosnia-Herzegovina. I don't remember the Iraqis surrounding Kuwait City and shelling and sniping it into submission. I do remember the irony of the site of the 1984 Winter Olympics being used a forward observation base for Serb artillery spotters.

Some believe they can solve anything and everything with peace, and that the world can be ruled by peace, an ideology which realy has nothing to do with the real world.

But was the exact reason the UN was created.

Some people hate the U.S. because there are many minorities, and minorities have power too in the U.S.

That's right. I hate the US because the American Indians have casinos.

Some people hate the U.S. because there are laws which restrict the use of illegal drugs, and some people want anarchy instead of a Republic.

Yeah, those laws in the US are preventing me from shovelling coc aine up my nose and having anarchy in my monarchy...

Since you can never satisfy everybody, there will always be somebody who will hate the U.S.

True, but the level of hatred worldwide has never been this big. Maybe you should be asking yourself "why is that?"

The world is certainly not safer for these guys.


Casualties

To these people the world could not have been more dangerous.

More americans have died in wars fighting terror since 9/11 than would have probably ever died to terror i if we had never invaded Iraq.

In other words by invading Iraq more americans have died since 9/11 than would have died if we had left Iraq alone and just secured our borders, ports and sea lanes.

American soldiers are Americans to ya know. It is rediculas assumption that leaving the soldiers over there in harms way diening daily with minimal to no mission to accomplish will prevent some future attack here. Its dumb to think that.

Perhaps bombing Saddam and hunting Osama are the right things to do but the invasion was just stupid and wasted many lives.

X

Originally posted by grimreaper797
how do you know they hate them for stopping a genocide since the US has never gotten involved in a war to stop a genocide?

If i remember correctly part of the reason for fighting the civil war in the U.S. was to give rights to black people, and stop the injustices against them, the fight continued for a long time. More recently the U.S. was involved in the fight against the Nazis, and if i remember in the early 90s the U.S. went to defend Kuwait, and despite all the people claiming it was only for oil, the U.S. did not take Iraq's oilfields and instead left. In 1995 the U.S. intervened in Haiti.

Operation Uphold Democracy began in September 1994 with the deployment of the U.S.-led Multinational Force. The operation officially ended on March 31, 1995 when it was replaced by the United Nations Mission in Haiti (UNMIH). However, a large contingent of U.S. troops (USFORHAITI) participated in the UNMIH until 1996 (and the U.S forces commander was also the commander of the UN forces). UN forces under various mission names have been in Haiti from 1995 through 2000.

The operation was originally planned as a forced invasion but it became a permissive entry operation. At least two joint task forces (JTF 180 and JTF 190) were involved. For this and other reasons, the operation name may sometimes vary in the literature.

www.au.af.mil...

Not to mention the U.S. being in between of nations and people wanting the destruction of Israel and it's people.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
It doesnt have a wand, just one of the largest military forces with a budget big enough for world domination, so yea i think they could have a pretty big effect if they were looking to preserve peace rather then preserve profits.

Oh right, and you preserve peace by using the military not for military action when dictatorships such as Saddam's are on the loose?

Originally posted by grimreaper797
.................
They never once said "we want to exterminate the jewish people", nor anything like it. Wiping israel off the map is for land rights.
.............. then when they made it the jewish state it went completely to hell. am i saying that it does or doesnt deserve to exist? no. im not one to say, but i can say that its the cause of the instability, and you cant deny that.

What I don't deny is your ignorance on the events occurring over there, and your obvious racist comments...

BTW, here is what one of the extremist Islamic groups has as a covenant...

Anti-Semitic Incitement:

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

www.fas.org...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
thank god your not in any term of power. theres a difference between defending yourself and flat out wrongfully attacking. We are not defending ourselves, because unless they bring a nuke into our country, they cant reach us. But im glad you have no control over affairs with the primitive attitude that peace is unrealistic. You ever in the military, sounds like something they would say.

You think peace is possible with this sort of people?....

Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:

-------------------------------------------

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and

international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of

the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than

a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of

Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by

Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a

waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)

www.fas.org...

yeah, thank the Mother and Father that you are not in any position of power...

Originally posted by grimreaper797 .................
I personally dont like a central government in charge of domestic affairs. We should all just own guns and local communities make the laws. your area makes your laws. The people of the area get heard this way.

You must be very young or very naive. For centuries most people in the world lived in tribal communities, which battled each other over and over, over land, cattle and for other reasons.... Your proposal would only bring even more war, death and violence....

Originally posted by grimreaper797
...................
why do you keep bringing up drugs?

Because even at this moment there is a thread in this forum which deals with some members claiming the U.S. is a dictatorship because they can't use illegal drugs....

Originally posted by grimreaper797
not really, i dont know what US your living in. Maybe your in some rich neighborhood where the top 1% are getting their tax cuts, but around here everyone cant stand what america ha

Me rich? not even close, and I am not looking for riches either, i have a good job and don't feel the economic strains so many people are under but i am not rich, nor am I special. I studied and worked hard to get to where I am.

BTW, I do travel quite a bit, and except for a few people wanting to protest, and yes the people protesting are a small group, even the illegal immigrants who are no more than 10 million can gather more people than the anti war movement and any other left wing movement.

[edit on 4-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Jakomo

Name five good things that have happened in Iraq since January 1st of this year.

1. Iraqis are uniting to defend themselves against Islamic extremists.
2. Iraqis still have the right to vote for whomever they want.
3. and there are still iraqis who had to exile from the country and are able to visit the country once again, which does happen.

If you want other good things happening over there.

Iraq's high-tech corridor has trove of treasures
By Ben Gilbert, USA TODAY
BAGHDAD — On Baghdad's high-tech boulevard, pickups squeeze between parked cars to deliver cargos of computer monitors piled in the back. Men wheel metal carts stacked with PC towers down the middle of the street, dodging traffic to distribute their wares to one of the 300 computer shops on the half-mile retail strip known as Sina'a Street.

www.usatoday.com...

Here is another link.
72.14.207.104...:N7AX6R_a35AJ:www.usaid.gov/iraq/updates/apr06/iraq_fs23_041406.pdf+3,000+schools+in+Iraq+2006&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk& cd=2

Originally posted by Jakomo
Yeah? What does the West represent?

Everything the Muslim extremists are not....

Originally posted by Jakomo
I mean, wtf do you think the West has been doing to Africa, the Middle East, lots of Asia, etc, for HUNDREDS OF YEARS?

Nothing in comparison to what many Africans, those who are warlords, Muslim extremists, and slave traders, have done to their own people in the ancient past and even the present......

Originally posted by Jakomo
They hate us because our governments have run roughshod over them and THEIR right to pursue happiness, to benefit US. And most of us have done nothing, so yeah, we are guilty of letting it happen. Ignorance is no defense, either.

Talking about ignorance...tell me why they hate these people?...

Genocide in the Darfur region of western Sudan, inflicted on mostly Muslim African tribespeople by the nomadic Arab militias called janjaweed with the enthusiastic assistance of the Arab-dominated Sudanese government, has been going on for over two years now.

www.washingtonpost.com...

And that started in 2003, before that they killed millions of people in their other jihads...

so tell me...why do they hate their own people?.....

Originally posted by Jakomo
?! Isn’t that totally alarmist? How many Islamic extremists are there in the world? Let’s say 250,000, which is a super high estimate. They’re somehow going to wipe out all of Western Civilization? Huh? With what? Western Civilization is BIG, most of us will be fine.

That is not a "superhigh estimate"...not even close...

There are 1 billion+ Muslims in the world, if we use one of the lowest estimates, 1% of them are extremists, that makes 10+ Million Muslim extremists, not 250,000...

BTW more people have died in Africa from the actions of Muslim extremists and warlords than anything the U.S has done in the African continent.

Originally posted by Jakomo
If there is a terrorist attack, some will die, but you know what, life goes on.

Is your life that much more important than these people’s childrens’, starving to death every day while they hear that the biggest health problem Americans face is OBESITY?!

Humm...I wonder why is it that it comes to you to so easily say, "oh if any western country is attacked by extremists like they did in 9/11 is alright"....

It is not alright. I wish that innocent people were not victims of any war, that unfortunately is not the case, but sitting down and allowing Muslim extremists to keep attacking western cities is not the anwser.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Oh, and you do, in your simple, clear Dr. Seussian world? Give me a break. Illuminate me as to why they hate the West, then, if you would. I’m all ears.

Could you "illuminate" us as to why the Islamic extremists attack and kill moderate Muslims and anyone who is not Arab Muslim?...

Originally posted by Jakomo
Oh, and what country do you live in that you have opinions that are so ignorant and divorced from actual history and reality? Can I guess?

I believe that who has shown ignorance as to what Muslim extremists are doing and what they want is you....


[edit on 5-5-2006 by Muaddib]

Muadibb, read your own words. Pastoral, "Arab" Muslims are killing Agricultarist, "African" Muslims. What is the difference there? This has to do with self-constructed identities, culture, ethnicity, land, power. The situation is much more complicated than claiming "Muslim extremists do it." Yes, they are Muslim and extremist to say the least, but you are only hiding the real issues here.

An analogy would be that most American troops in Iraq are Christian. Yet, we don't say Christian soldiers are occupying Muslim territory, because all that does is gloss over and attempt to obscure what's really happening in the world.

So to does simply claiming that Islamic extremism is the cause of the Darfur situation obscuring the extent of the motivating factors there, which, in the case of the Janjaweed revolves mainly around self-proclaimed "Arabness" and a want of land.

Also, the Darfur situation started after groups rebelled against the government. After which, the Khartoum government then started backing the janjaweed as well as providing air cover for their raids. The Khartoum and Darfur groups are divided strongly along regional lines as well. So, once again, attributing this to religion is to strongly obscure the real nature of this genocide.

[edit on 5-5-2006 by Jamuhn]

It pretty safe here in america , so i would say its working. when we said we wanted to fight terror the goal was to make america safer not some other countries. Havent had a terroriest again, so hey iam fine with it. AS long as we are safe nothing else matters, well it does but not nearly as much.