People are wondering "Why mention this J-ROD"?

That message from The Anonymous (c.f. The Humongous ) was giving a list of EBEs on Earth. There were five, and they were listed in chronological order.

Apparently #4 was J-ROD and may have been mentioned as the only one with a "name" supposedly known to outsiders by "rumors on the Internets".

i.e., there is an innocent explanation: it was next on the list.

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
For your continued interest, I've posted several more consistencies on [url=http://www.serpo.org/consistencies.html]
Some people have mistakenly concluded that I'm an unthinking apologist for the accuracy of the story. Rather, I seek to maintain a finely balanced perspective. As I hear more cries of "hoax" – which in my present opinion stem solely from an insufficiency of careful thought – I will endeavor to post more reasons to suspend disbelief.

My own advice to all is that we still need more information, specifically a better understanding of the context in which Anonymous is operating... Let's see what the New Year may bring.

Best wishes, Bill

You've contradicted yourself twice there, Bill. First you're not an apologist, then people who doubt the veracity of the claims on the stie lack careful thought, and finally, we're supposed to wait for more information about Anonymous' situation in order to know if this is true?

This is a fascinating story, no doubt about that. It's exactly that though, and nothing more at this point. A story. It lacks sufficient empirical evidence in order to make the claims true. We all have an open mind, skeptics and believers alike.

Believers will hang on every word trying to tie some sort of truth to it in their wanting this to come to fruition. Skeptics will doubt, rightfully so, due to a severe lack of sustantiated evidence. We aren't close-minded to the Serpo saga being true, just that it has no observations that can allow us to come to that conclusion at this time(as you've said). So it is not unreasonable to currently posit this as a hoax because the unsubstantiated Serpo claims are being put forth as true.

There is only one logical default position here. Just because one doesn't take the Serpo story as trurth, or part of a truth, due to insufficient evidence, doesn't mean that they won't in the future if such evidence comes to light. However, as I've stated almost too many times for my liking, there is not any empirical evidence in regards to Serpo.

-Obscure

So it is not unreasonable to currently posit this as a hoax because the unsubstantiated Serpo claims are being put forth as true.

Claims of truth are always an important part of a hoax.

There is only one logical default position here. Just because one doesn't take the Serpo story as trurth, or part of a truth, due to insufficient evidence, doesn't mean that they won't in the future if such evidence comes to light. However, as I've stated almost too many times for my liking, there is not any empirical evidence in regards to Serpo.

Indeed this is the null hypothesis- The story is not (in reality) true.

However, throwing out the validity of the entire "story" (aka Anon's "documented account") because it currently fails to provide sufficient quantitative evidence is itself a logical fallacy. There is quantitative as well as qualitative research, both of which are subject to the tenets of empiricism.

The evidence that we currently have available is qualitative in nature. We have alleged journal entries and confidential sources from supposed government agencies. It is important for us (as empirically-minded individuals) to continue evaluating this qualitative data. We are lucky in that there is an incredible amount of information supplied, which can be dissected to examine consistencies and inconsistencies.

I also hope that quantitative data is soon provided (such as the orbital calculations). Of course if this data is eventually released, our task as empirical scientists will be to cross-validate/invalidate the existing qualitative data.

In summary, I am arguing to suspend judgment either way on the validity of the Serpo hypothesis. I am arguing to continue testing multiple hypotheses based on existing qualitative data. Even if photographs are released, I would still be inclined to categorize them as qualitative in nature.

MK

[edit on 26-12-2005 by MKULTRA]

MK,

Sounds overly agnostic, so to speak, to me. You seem to have some value of logic, at least.

Continuing testing various hypothesis on this story is what is expected by us all. To say that something is between known and unknown is false. There is no such thing. It either is true or it is not true. Anonymous is making the claim that this whole thing is the truth. Having failed to provide us any sort of imformation that would allow a rational thinking human being to logically conclude it as truth is all the analysis one needs to posit this as not true.

Yes, the data present is abundant. The quality of it, however, is the main question we all have. As I'm sure you are well aware, they attempting to posit anything above a base level of what is known(ie: provable with logic, deduction, induction, etc) means the burdern of proof is upon the other party, not us. We are not making the initial claim, therefore we are not the ones who must prove or disprove.

Nothing is 100% certain with a scientific process but the results garner us far more knowledge than a mere belief.

Just on the Serpo website there it states on the front page

"I printed all the information... and provided [the retired USAF Colonel] a copy... I watched his eyes and facial expressions. After he was finished, he stated, "Oh my God, who on this Earth would release such classified material?" I then asked him if all this information was real. His simple answer was, 'Yes, all real'."

Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, currently assigned to the Pentagon – name supplied


is That from Bill Ryan at all?can anyone clarify

cheers

Graham

[edit on 26-12-2005 by Graham]

Thanks Bill listening to your interview on c2c the now very interesting indeed.

thanks again

Graham

Originally posted by Obscure

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
For your continued interest, I've posted several more consistencies on [url=http://www.serpo.org/consistencies.html]
Some people have mistakenly concluded that I'm an unthinking apologist for the accuracy of the story. Rather, I seek to maintain a finely balanced perspective. As I hear more cries of "hoax" – which in my present opinion stem solely from an insufficiency of careful thought – I will endeavor to post more reasons to suspend disbelief.

My own advice to all is that we still need more information, specifically a better understanding of the context in which Anonymous is operating... Let's see what the New Year may bring.

Best wishes, Bill

You've contradicted yourself twice there, Bill. First you're not an apologist, then people who doubt the veracity of the claims on the stie lack careful thought, and finally, we're supposed to wait for more information about Anonymous' situation in order to know if this is true?

Hi, Obscure – many thanks.

No, an apologist is somebody who argues to defend or justify a particular doctrine or ideology. I'm not doing that. I don't have a fixed idea about exactly what is happening, though as I've said earlier on this Forum I do have a hypothesis which I'm keeping to myself for the moment, and which I believe to be testable.

But I am arguing against anyone who casually or lazily dismisses it all as a simple hoax. I stand for intelligent thought and will listen to anyone who presents cogent, well-considered arguments. (Why? Because I might realize something I've not thought of.) So I'm just presenting evidence on both sides of the debate – if you read the Comments page you'll see there's plenty there which argues against the veracity of the stated orbital data, for example.

The reason for the Consistencies page is that I know that some have jumped to a conclusion based on poor logic – not considering all the facts. This does not mean their conclusion is wrong; it just means that their logic is poor. To even things out and encourage careful thought, I want to present additional factors which are not immediately obvious and/or which may not be generally known. They're not proof, but constitute a kind of circumstantial evidence. My post above, for instance – and in particular the fact that my faithful correspondent has gone silent or been silenced – for me is highly significant and must be explained by anyone promoting the hypothesis that this is a hoax.

I hope I explained myself a little better that time – does this now make better sense?

Best wishes, Bill

It may be assumed – although this of course cannot be proven – that his superiors have "leant" on him to be silent and not to respond to any further e-mails. As a serving career officer, it would have been understandable for him to comply. We are left to consider for ourselves why such an action may have been taken by the authorities.

True, but I would be hesitant to read much into this. Imagine if the guy was a career officer in Naval Intelligence or some other area that doesn't have anything to do with anything even remotely related to Serpo. This guy's superior's may know nothing of Serpo and not want to have questions start coming their way, if the information being released is, in fact, true. My belief is that no one in the military really wants to draw attention to themselves in these matters, whether they know anything or not.



[edit on 26-12-2005 by Centrist]

Hi Bill. Thanks for the hard work you are putting in to this. I have a question. Do you have any plans to introduce and alert the mainstream media to the Serpo disclosures and if so when? If there are ever credible photos released then some newspapers and TV may be interested in reporting it. I think there is a danger that the media may try and do a hatchet job and present it in an immature and jokey "Elvis is alive and living on the moon" kind of a way. On the other hand if it is never reported in the mainstream press then the whole disclosure will have very little impact because only people that either read this site or have found the serpo website will know about it.

Also In my opinion it is not a good idea to have a link to abovetopsecret on the Serpo website. People in the mainstream media will have ammunition to attack and discredit annonymous's claims because they will look on this site and find the most extreme and silly post they can and then link it with the serpo disclosures. This is very cynical, corrupt and misleading journalism but they often do it this way to try and undermine the credibility of certain issues and causes that do not suit their agenda. I am not saying good research and corroboration (like the guy did working out the team members probable roles) should not be included on the serpo site. Just better not to say it came from this site.

I

[edit on 26-12-2005 by englishman100]

[edit on 26-12-2005 by englishman100]

Originally posted by englishman100
Hi Bill. Thanks for the hard work you are putting in to this. I have a question. Do you have any plans to introduce and alert the mainstream media to the Serpo disclosures and if so when? If there are ever credible photos released then some newspapers and TV may be interested in reporting it. I think there is a danger that the media may try and do a hatchet job and present it in an immature and jokey "Elvis is alive and living on the moon" kind of a way. On the other hand if it is never reported in the mainstream press then the whole disclosure will have very little impact because only people that either read this site or have found the serpo website will know about it.

Also In my opinion it is not a good idea to have a link to abovetopsecret on the Serpo website. People in the mainstream media will have ammunition to attack and discredit annonymous's claims because they will look on this site and find the most extreme and silly post they can and then link it with the serpo disclosures. This is very cynical, corrupt and misleading journalism but they often do it this way to try and undermine the credibility of certain issues and causes that do not suit their agenda. I am not saying good research and corroboration (like the guy did working out the team members probable roles) should not be included on the serpo site. Just better not to say it came from this site.

Thanks – it's a good question.

I have no plans to approach the press; in its current state the story would be crucified. It needs way stronger evidence than currently is available. Credible photos would be a start!

But after C2C with George Noory I've done a couple more long radio interviews and found myself warming to the opportunity. If invited, I'd be happy to do more, and TV is just radio with pictures (to a degree). But I'm comfortable speaking in public and have a little PR experience, so would not be fazed if the media beat a path to my door. I can also write pretty lucidly, build relationships well, and hold my own in debate if necessary.

So what does this mean? If Serpo went bigtime then I'd be happy to front the PR, and would not duck out of a situation that might legimately be a little scary for others. I went into this knowing what might (just possibly) happen, and felt I was a fairly reasonable frontman inasmuch as I have no reputation to risk (and none that has gone before!). I'm also not afraid of being wrong, as I've mentioned earlier – because I'm not trying to be right. But if this story is true – or contains enough truth to be seriously investigated – then I'm happy to help as best I can get this info out. It really is a matter of public duty for me. I mean, 58 years since Roswell... come on, you guys in high places, it has to be about time now, whatever your good reasons for secrecy may once have been.

Re the ATS link, I thought I was doing you a favour – I've been very favorably impressed with my experience on ATS and almost all of the posts I've seen are thoughtful, creative, intelligent, and good-humored. Maybe I've not witnessed the worst of it yet!

Best wishes, Bill

I think it might be a good idea to re-thread and sticky the petition so that we can get tons of siggies.

PM a mod for that though

On a note: Just because it's a petition and may get tons of signatures doesn't mean anything will happen (especially an internet petition).

Ten thousand people in the current world of today isn't really an insignificant number. But still, something is better than nothing.

Also, using a petition which requires you to sign in/make an account is kind of a bad idea since a lot of people are lazy.

[edit on 26-12-2005 by CidCaldensfey]

Originally posted by Centrist

People should know the source of information and be able to weigh it against the credibility of the source.

Maybe. But from the point of veiw of mainstream media and middle america this website is not a credible source. It would be a shame to give people the oppurtunity to discredit the Serpo material by assossiating it with some of the more wacky stuff on here. I am not suggesting that you or others on this thread are not credible. In many ways(and maybe you will agree with this) the reason the existance of ET'S is not treated as real is not because of a lack of evidence but because there is a kind of laughter curtain which causes the media not to treat the subject seriousley. All it takes is for a newspaper reporter to come on this site and see a post from someone saying "David Icke is great and the queen of England is a reptile" or something similar then it doesn't matter if annonymous is Brent Scowcroft because the information will be tarnished and treated as if it is fiction by the press and that is what the public will believe.

I agree with the other stuff you said though.

BILL: Thanks for the reply.



[edit on 26-12-2005 by englishman100]

[edit on 26-12-2005 by englishman100]

Hey Bill,
I know your just the messenger here so you probably don't have a say in how the photos (assuming they arrive) will be delivered, but in any case, if you can put in a word to your contact or if you get asked - ask them (unless they provide actual prints/negs) to scan them atleast 300dpi, provide them RAW from the scanner (as in no edits to the pictures colour, light balance etc, let us do that or provide the Raw version with an edited/corrected version) and to keep compression to an absolute minimum. Tell them not to worry about file size, there's no such thing as an image that is too large in this case!

It would be a shame to get the photos and just have little web resolution pics which can't really be exaimed properly. If they are going to the trouble to release these images and they stand behind them, they should atleast deliver press quality scans that can be run through software to be enhanced and detailed if needed. The images, regardless of what they actually depict, will be run through the gauntlet by all sides of belief, it will really help disclosure if there is public access to the original unedited hi-res scans - something that is rarely provided with UFO images.

If these images appear and they are real - there's a good chance your site could get taken down. It will be very important to make backups and more importantly, spread it on the internet right away so it has a snowball effect which can't be stopped. ATS type places will be a good start, make a post with a link to the files and tell us all to download them ASAP.

I'm not sure what the licensing deal would be with photos like this? spreading them on the net will be important so they don't get swallowed and hidden away but what would be the legal issue with press printing them? It would be great if they did but would any laws or copyrights be broken? How does it work from a publishing perspective when a secret photo that 'officially' doesn't exist is then released anonymously to the public?
Who would be the copyright owner or would they just be considered 'free use' photos? It might help working out a general usage license type thing in advance so if they do come, if they are press quality, then atleast it's clear that they can be reproduced without any consequence - unless your told otherwise by the provider i guess.

Anyway, i hope your making backups for your site and have some mirrors handy because if this heats up and turns out to start getting seriously undeniable, then serpo.org will be the first thing to go down if someone out there wants to stop it. At the moment there's still plenty of slack in the rope before 'they' would want to shut this down because it's still clouded in mystery and works for dis-info as much as it does for disclosure, hard evidence thou will change the scope of this instantly and really start receiving some serious attention.

Good luck with the rest of it, here's hoping it's not in vein but rather the begining of something that is desperately needed on this planet right now.