NEWS: Neo-Nazi Demonstration Turns into Riot

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The links I provided for the submission had references to the International Socialists and their involvement in the disorder, but oddly, those references have all disappeared. Communists versus the Fascists--is this the Twentieth Century all over again?

I was reading on CNN that the Socialists were passing out eggs to throw. It certainly sounds like they were trying to create discord. I wonder if riots would even of happened if the Socialists didn't stir things up, or was that their plan?

One of the organizers of that neo-nazi march in one Mel White...he has been causeing a big stink here in Roanoke Va. by buying up houses in the low income and black neighborhoods and then evicting his non-white (read black, hispanic and asian) new tenents. On a personal note I recently found out he is buying the house I grew up in (and owned for most of the 90's before I sold it) as his own personal residence...one night after he moves in I am thinking of sneaking up there and spray painting it with anti-racist, humanist and liberal slogans. the best way to deal with these SOB's is to laugh at them.

Why do they want to bring the troops back home? Surely Hilter would have saw them as cowards and want the fighting to continue. Maybe they do not want an empire but why claim to be Nazi then? The whole point of Nazsim was to create an Aryan empire.

Also, why on earth are they wearing SA unifroms. I think they have forgotten about the Night of the Long Knives.

Most of the violence happened when residents, who had pelted the Nazi marchers with bottles and rocks, took out their anger on police, said Brian Jagodzinski, chief news photographer for CNN affiliate WTVG

Why did the residents take out their anger on the police?

And how many members has the NSM got?

[edit on 16/10/05 by GodAtum]

Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The links I provided for the submission had references to the International Socialists and their involvement in the disorder, but oddly, those references have all disappeared. Communists versus the Fascists--is this the Twentieth Century all over again?

I was reading on CNN that the Socialists were passing out eggs to throw. It certainly sounds like they were trying to create discord. I wonder if riots would even of happened if the Socialists didn't stir things up, or was that their plan?

Any socialist that was 'handing' out 'eggs' isn't a socialist. Sorry to let you know that, they can call themselves what they want but that goes against one of the most fundemental parts of Socialism.

Originally posted by Full Metal
I am so glad I live in Bono, right next to Northwood area. Sure it is a crap hole, and I have to drive a good 20 miles to get to school everyday, but it's not Toledo. Although I drive an extra 5 miles west and I would end up in Toledo. I can't believe people are attacking the Neo Nazis, THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!!!! They didn't even march, they planned a march and that's it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jack Ford said it himself, it was the !BLACK GANGS! the very things the Nazis were marching against, that caused the hell in Toledo!

I swear, reading some of these posts, it's just insane! "They black so they are allowed to act like animals." ? How is that a defense?

THANKYOU!

Originally posted by Odium
Any socialist that was 'handing' out 'eggs' isn't a socialist. Sorry to let you know that, they can call themselves what they want but that goes against one of the most fundamental parts of Socialism.

I wasn't trying to play the commie card, but just supposing that there may be forces out there, under the guise of legitimate organizations and beliefs, whose goal is to create animosity among people.

Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by Odium
Any socialist that was 'handing' out 'eggs' isn't a socialist. Sorry to let you know that, they can call themselves what they want but that goes against one of the most fundamental parts of Socialism.

I wasn't trying to play the commie card, but just supposing that there may be forces out there, under the guise of legitimate organizations and beliefs, whose goal is to create animosity among people.

Then it is not a "Socialist" organisation.

And those organisations exist, it's called the Police, Government, Education system, et al.

Originally posted by Odium
27jd, the New Black Panther Party have nothing to do with the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. In fact Bobby Seale, the only living member of the Black Panther's has actively spoke out against them.

If you are talking about the NBPP and not the BPPSD, it is wise to place the new in front of it. Which again the point goes again, when did the Black Panther Party attack groups on the basis of their race?

I thought we were speaking in context of present time, not the sixties. The New Black Panthers are the only Black Panthers still active. So when we are discussing the Black Panthers, it is also wise to specify that we are not discussing the currently active Black Panthers, but the dissolved group from the past. I see alot of people on this thread referring to the neos simply as nazis, when they also have nothing to do with the old nazi party, why not argue semantics with them as well? This discussion is about events in the present, not the forties or sixties.

27jd, the Dr. Huey P. Newton Foundation, still continues the work of the Black Panthers and Bobby still gives talks on "important" issues. In fact, while Bobby is still alive and teaching things like the Ten Point Program the Black Panthers still are.

I could call myself "The Black Panthers" if I so decided, naming me so doesn't make it so and the same goes for this group. Nobody calls them the "Black Panthers" but they do call them the "NEW Black Panthers" to show the LARGE difference between the two groups.

Whatever else you might say about the Black Panthers, they certainly were violent criminals. Read just a little about David Horowitz's experience with the Panthers and you get a very good inside picture of what these thugs were really like. The links below also provide a little insight into this "benevolent" organization.

Horowitz's intellectual seduction by Newton constitutes some of the most fascinating pages in Radical Son. Newton made Horowitz his confidant, took him to glitzy parties and published his essays in the Panthers' official newspaper. When Newton asked him to raise money for a new Panther school in Oakland, Horowitz eagerly obliged by creating a tax-exempt foundation that eventually netted more than $100,000 for the project.

Attaching himself to the Bay Area Panthers in 1974 was, it turns out, a colossal mistake: Their heyday was over, and the leadership had become increasingly violent and deranged. The educator Herbert Kohl, who was then involved in several Panther education projects, warned Horowitz that Newton was abusing coc aine. ("He had a cold," Horowitz replied.) Uncomfortable being a white man in the upper ranks of the Panther hierarchy, Horowitz attempted to recruit qualified blacks to replace him, so he invited Troy Duster, a sociologist at UC-Berkeley, to meet Newton. But Duster was suspicious of Newton's mercurial behavior and fled. Horowitz then denounced Duster as something of a bourgeois "Uncle Tom." "I must have been insufferable," Horowitz says, reflecting on his younger self.

On July 22, 1974, Huey Newton shot a young prostitute, after which he fled to Cuba. "I should have left [the Panthers] then," Horowitz says. In fact, many of his black friends in the party did depart at that very moment--a turn of events that enraged Newton's successor, a striking, charismatic and voluble young woman named Elaine Brown, who, according to Horowitz, said the party was under attack and "the rats were leaving the ship." Horowitz says he felt trapped. When Brown asked him to recommend someone to oversee the party finances, he suggested Betty Van Patter, a 42-year-old bookkeeper who had worked at Ramparts. Van Patter, who was white, eagerly accepted the position. On December 13, 1974, she vanished. A month later, her body, with a massive head wound, was discovered in San Francisco Bay.

It is a case, according to veteran Panther-watcher Kate Coleman, that has "haunted the Bay Area left for two decades." A lengthy investigation by Coleman revealed that Van Patter had discovered questionable activity--rackets, dope, prostitution--at a Panther-run bar in Oakland called the Lamp Post and had reportedly complained about it to Brown, who then fired her.

Van Patter's death plunged Horowitz into "a really clinical depression," he says today. "For a good year, I woke up in tears every day because of Betty." What inspired the guilt was not simply that he'd recommended Van Patter to the Panthers but that he'd been too frightened to warn her about the dangers she faced. But he was in a bind: Van Patter, delighted to be employed by the Panthers, was completely enamored of Brown and wary of Horowitz, whom she did not trust. So he let her proceed with the job.

"Today I can't even justify it," he says wearily. "I have no idea why I did it." Horowitz and I are seated in his office. The room is tense and completely silent, except for the sound of his hand nervously striking the table. His voice, normally firm and confident, sinks to a barely audible mumble.

www.thenation.com...

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GradyPhilpott, if you read up on many of the claims made against the Black Panthers they were never proven, in fact Huey P. Newton was acquitted of the murder and that is how the legal system works. Innocent until proven guilty and I am afraid, he was found innocent.

Most of what, George Jackson, did he did while in prison and many of the Black Panther's denounced his actions. I do believe in Huey P. Newton's 73 book he peaks about him.

Assata Shakur, was attacked by the State. In fact, she had 6 false crimes pushed against her by the F.B.I. and New York Police, which the court accepted as being false and being a set up.

Bobby Seale served his time, even though the charges and the majority of time in prison was due to the fact he was rather vocal in court.

Mutulu Shakur is in the appeal courts.

Pete O'Neal was tried for "transporting a gun across state lines".

Bobby Hutton was shot to death by the Police in a fire fight.

Geronimo ji-Jaga's conviction was overturned and is thus not guilty.

Angela Yvonne Davis was found not guilty.

Eldridge Cleaver was sentanced for assault and also had left the BP, the rape charges/convictions happened prior to joining the BP.

Richard Held is responsible for the deaths of Alprentice "Bunchy" Carter and was never convicted of a crime.

H. Rap Brown's actions were wrong and I do believe they have been denounced by Bobby although there is still a lot going on with his recent case.

Elaine Brown has never been convicted of a crime.

Mumia Abu-Jamal's case has so many problems with it, it isn't even worth the light of day however he never was put to death and is still in custody waiting for the trial to be over.

GradyPhilpott, I find it laughable you would push half of those links across when it is widly accepted a vast majority of the charges against the Black Panthers was because of the Government/F.B.I. campaign to 'remove' them. In fact, look at their actions towards people like "Fred Hampton" and then wonder why the Panther's shot at Police officers.

It's a little bit of common sense. If the Police were not killing them, for no reason, if the F.B.I. has not caused friction between the United Slaves and the Panthers and if they had never set out to destory the "Rainbow Coalitiion" there would be tens of people still alive. It is just a shame, still to this day people claim that people like Huey killed that woman when a court has found otherwise.

[edit on 16/10/2005 by Odium]

I find it laughable that you would ignore the evidence that the Black Panthers was nothing more than a criminal gang and would believe that the "State" just harrassed them for no good reason. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Remember, OJ Simpson was acquitted.

[edit on 2005/10/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Yes, writing letters to the United Slaves claiming you are a member of the Black Panther's and they are going to kill one of your members, is part of the line of duty. In fact, the actions of the F.B.I. in reguards to the Black Panthers had them found guilty in a Civil Court and they have been made to pay massive damages to former members, as well as several Police forces also being found guilty of their actions.

www.icdc.com...


"Many of the techniques used would be intolerable in a democratic society even if all of the targets had been involved in violent activity, but COINTELPRO went far beyond that...the Bureau conducted a sophisticated vigilante operation aimed squarely at preventing the exercise of First Amendment rights of speech and association, on the theory that preventing the growth of dangerous groups and the propogation of dangerous ideas would protect the national security and deter violence."
www.icdc.com...

In fact, I really like the memo between the San Francisco agent and Hoover, where he could find no involvement and well...Hoover made it nice and clear if he wanted his job, to find "evidence".

COINTELPRO, was not legal and resulted in a lot of violence between the Police and the groups they targetted. [Not just blacks.]

Iberia Hampton, et. al vs. Plaintiffs-Appellants, v Edward V. Hanrahan , et al,. Defendants-Appellees (Nos.77-1968, 77-1210 and 77-1370

I suggest you go have a look at that case, if you are able to and the Court Transcripts. It makes a nice interesting read to know the Police attackd and killed innocent people on the basis they didn't want a strong, Black Political Movement to begin...

All there, in the court transcripts.

Where did they call for the destruction of other races or peoples?

They're nazis. Not merely racists or KKKers even, they're nazis, what do you think they are going to do if they ever get in charge??

no matter how righteous they think they are. They are freaking insane.

Preposterous. These men are nazis, they aren't some mutant 'nice nazi' version of the party, they've looked at the history of the nazi party and said, 'now these guys knew what to do and had the cojones to do it'.

The scum who rioted are no better, and most of them were gangbanging cowards

The criminals who rioted are far better than the nazis.

They looted and attacked innocent people?

You had stated that 'white people don't riot', which, plainly as evidenced in those cities, is untrue. The people rioting and rampaging there destroyed property and violently clashed with the police.

Well, I sure don't see you equally condemning them today

You don't see anything I do anywhere outside of this board, and we're not even talking about anything outside of this thread, since this thread is about a nazi rally, I'm condemming the nazis.

full metal
Hmmm, maybe the Neo Nazis hace a point?

No, the nazis do not have a point.

This whole thing originally stemmed from my asking Nygdan if he wishes to equally clobber those who promote violent, hateful gangsta rap (not all rap is hateful), as he wishes to clobber those who promote hateful white supremacy and segregation, and if so why he supports hateful violent gang members acting violently because a small handful of hateful non-violent white supremecists wished to have a stupid march and what makes one hate more preferable to another. He never answered.

What are you talking about? I answered you and said have clearly stated that what the rioters were doing was illegal. For my own part, I really don't give a dam about a bunch of people rampaging when the nazis have a rally in their town, I'd think that the nazi rally is the disturbing thing here, not that a counter-protest turned violent.

The March by Whites to stand up for Whites that are being terrorized by street gangs is called "hate".

Bull#. The nazis weren't standing up for anyone, they're using the 'anti gang violence' theme as a front for their rally. The nazis are not the good guys here.

Nazis are bad people but they proved a pretty big point. although their creeps they didnt go and set houses on fire and bust ambulances windows and rob gas stations

How nice of them. Those nazis sure are good kids, those damned blacks are animals eh?

Originally posted by Nygdan
I'd think that the nazi rally is the disturbing thing here, not that a counter-protest turned violent.

However twisted or wrong ones views are, people have the right to express themselves and voice their opinion in this country. Personally, I'd love to knock one of the nazi scum losers the f' out. But that's illegal.

They can stand there and spout all their filth legally and as much as I don't like it, they have that right. And I have the right to ignore them. Others have that same right.

The people protesting against the nazis crossed the line of voicing their opinion and chose to be destructive causing damage to property and acted violent toward police and rescue personnel. I don't buy one bit the excuse of "well what did you expect?" I expect people to have self control and not act like hooligans. If not, than get used prison.

IMO I'd rather be in the company of people with more disdain for people that break the law with complete disrespect to law enforcement and rescue personnel than those with sick views and opinions.

With a stack of dynamite under the neo-nazi losers and another stack under the rioters and the ability to only detonate one, as much as I'd love to blow them both up, I'd pick the rioters in this case. If the nazis started acting out what they support, than that would be a different story.

the nazis did act out what they support back when they had the support of the people. remember hitler and them?

anyway i think the government might think twice before letting a nazi march down a public street this time around. if thats the case then rioters got what they wanted as well.

Originally posted by Nygdan
They're nazis. Not merely racists or KKKers even, they're nazis, what do you think they are going to do if they ever get in charge??

They're NOT nazis! They're neo-nazis, a bunch of uneducated, redneck punk racist kids of mixed origins who have white skin and stole the nazi symbol for their own little gang . Most of them are not pure aryan and would be put to death under Hitler's plan. They would never be in charge, any more than the bloods or the crips would be. You just don't get it. And I find it pretty funny that you seem to be saying the KKK or even just run of the mill racists are acceptable, when the KKK commited far more violence against blacks than the real nazi party did.

Preposterous. These men are nazis, they aren't some mutant 'nice nazi' version of the party, they've looked at the history of the nazi party and said, 'now these guys knew what to do and had the cojones to do it'.

They didn't look at crap. They're all followers and most of them will grow up, meet a few decent black folks, realize how stupid they were, and feel like idiots that they ever felt the way they did. Once again, they are not part of the nazi party, it has been dead for decades.

The criminals who rioted are far better than the nazis.

Oh, I see, so you are admittedly biased as to which scumbags you approve of, and murderous, drive-by shooting, crack dealing, thieves are okay in Nygdan's book. But misguided young white kids who feel backed into a corner by all the minority gangs and feel the need for safety in numbers, just as the gangs do, deserve to be "clobbered" and shot, because Nygdan can't seem to differentiate between racists who stole a symbol, many of whom are probably jewish, and the extinct nazi party of Germany.

You had stated that 'white people don't riot', which, plainly as evidenced in those cities, is untrue. The people rioting and rampaging there destroyed property and violently clashed with the police.

How many innocent bystanders did they beat nearly to death? How many businesses did they smash into and loot? I guess I should have said that white people don't riot for the same reasons, and in the same manner. It doesn't excuse when they do it, but I'd be willing to bet that in the riots you referred to, the whites wouldn't see a lone black dude, jump him and throw bricks at his head. I'd also be willing to bet they didn't destroy any ambulances coming to assist the wounded. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You don't see anything I do anywhere outside of this board, and we're not even talking about anything outside of this thread, since this thread is about a nazi rally, I'm condemming the nazis.

You've already seemingly stated that gangbangers are okay in your book, or at least they're more okay than neo-nazis. I think they're all scumbags, only the gangstas broke the law, the nazis didn't.

well as i see it, at least the gang-bangers arent killing based on race, their killing just about everyone equally. lol

really though, if you think like a nazi, act like a nazi, and say you are a nazi....chances are people are gunna see you as, yep you guessed it, a nazi. doesnt matter if they are going to grow up, if they keep gaining mentallity saying "'n-word's smell like #" and such then eventually they may have enough members to do something. once they get 100s to 1000s of people behind them, which is possible based on racial tensions in this country, things would go from "peaceful protest against black gangs" to "lynch first black man you see" maybe if he looks like a ganster but probably just because hes black.

im not justifying hurting innocents or destroying property, but if the gang members decided to go kill the 'neo-nazis' before they grew any larger, i cant say i would have a problem with it.

While everybody's thinking it's okay to go out and kill people for their beliefs, if they feel that in the future they might be a threat, why don't all the law abiding, non-racist citizens go out and kill all the neo-nazis and the gangbangers. We outnumber them all, so why not? It'll be a righteous bloodbath! Just let me know when and I'll load up my SKS.