personally, i say ever person should own a gun, and that would be law.

if some one got pissed off and shot some one else...ok, unfortunately i hope they thought ahead to a minute later when a by standard shoots em back.if everyone had guns people would think twice before doing anything. anyone commiting less then murder can come in freely, or be shot.

unfortunately we are too humane a society to do such things. thats why crime will run ramped. if it were up to me id let em kill eachother. but let em come to our doorstep sayin kill white men, and everyone of em that said it will prolly get shot if they possed some threat to me.

grimreaper, you re crazy... sorry... i had to say this but maybe this is my canadian way to think...

we should all destroy all weapons in the world! Is this utopic?

i only believe in this because religion is always preaching violence is never the answer, but who made up religion? those in power position and didnt want to loose their power

look but stuff about illuminati, freemansons and such. then wonder to yourself "keep the majority peaceful, how can they harm you"

we will be liberated the day we all realize you dont need religion to believe in a god.

Originally posted by DiabolusFireDragon

What are you puzzled about? The nazis are disturbing, their pressence is disturbing. Yes, they have a legal right to be nazis, so what, that doesn't justify them being nazis.

However twisted or wrong ones views are, people have the right to express themselves

Yes, they have that right as human beings, but lets face it, they're views are twisted and wrong, people should stand up to them.

IMO I'd rather be in the company of people with more disdain for people that break the law with complete disrespect to law enforcement and rescue personnel than those with sick views and opinions.

You'd rather go to a nazi rally than walk down that street in toledo?

if thats the case then rioters got what they wanted as well.

People need to be able to express their ideas even when they are unpopular, if this riot leads to a restriction of human rights, then its getting what the nazis want.

27jd
They're NOT nazis

Listen. They are nazis. They are not direct descendants of the SS and the NDSAP, yes. So what. Their ideology is the nazi ideology. Therefore, they are nazis. There are maoists who've never been to china, they're still maoists.

They're neo-nazis, a bunch of uneducated, redneck punk racist kids of mixed origins who have white skin and stole the nazi symbol for their own little gang .

Thats what the nazis were.

under Hitler's plan.[/'quote]
Everyone dies under hitler's plan.

even just run of the mill racists are acceptable,

You seem to have some sort of reading problem. I said no such thing. You seem to think that these guys are 'just' racists, ie not actually nazis. They are beyond the kkk, they are nazis.

when the KKK commited far more violence against blacks than the real nazi party did

Since the nazis weren't in the US until after the war, this shoudln't be much of a surprise. The nazis did more harm to the jews than teh KKK, but that hardly means that jews should attend KKK rallies.

Oh, I see, so you are admittedly biased as to which scumbags you approve of, and murderous, drive-by shooting, crack dealing, thieves are okay in Nygdan's book.

Are you here to have a discussion or no? Who's better, hitler and mengele, or Ice-T and a crack dealer?

I guess I should have said that white people don't riot for the same reasons, and in the same manner

Ok, so we've established that you're a racist who thinks that blacks are animals who riot and kill over nothing and white people just 'think differently' and are 'better behaved'.

the whites wouldn't see a lone black dude, jump him and throw bricks at his head

What exactly do you think the nazis and kkk do on their weekends?

You've already seemingly stated that gangbangers are okay in your book

I really don't understand why you are not competent enough to actually understand what you are reading.

they're more okay than neo-nazis

Gosh, now you're starting to get it. Nazis go torwards the top of the 'evil scumbag' pyramid, gang-bangers more torwards the middle. Good job. Next week, we'll look at why jaywalking, tho illegal, is not as back as arson.

why don't all the law abiding, non-racist citizens go out and kill all the neo-nazis and the gangbangers.

How about, rather than that, we just not cry about the 'poor nazis' who are being mistreated and not be expected to sympathise with them. Gosh, those poor maligned nazis, having people get violent merely because they want to exterminate the other races and establish a national socialist white dictatorship in the US.

No one is saying that the people who rioted are justified, but who really gives a damn if some nazis got a little of what they try to dish out??

Originally posted by Nygdan
Nazis go torwards the top of the 'evil scumbag' pyramid, gang-bangers more torwards the middle. Good job. Next week, we'll look at why jaywalking, tho illegal, is not as back as arson.

Are you trying to relate (Legally voicing a demented opinion : violently rioting) to (arson : jaywalking)? What a skewed perspective if so.

I really think the difference is you're relating these nazi wanna-be's to the totality of the entire nazi party of past. In that light your are correct. The totality of the nazis past to present far exceeds the violence of US street gangs.

Where I'm coming from, and maybe some others, is the current level of threat coming from the two at this moment. I think its safe to say you're more likely to hear of gang violence than a nazi execution. Most neo-nazi hate crimes come from cowards spray painting a door late at night and aren't as blatant as a mob marching down a street throwing bricks at an Ambulance.

Edited for addition:

To put it more simply, what I'm trying to say(which doesn't always come out right, lol) is: nazis are worse than this riot. This riot is worse than those dozen of wanna-be neo-nazis having a demonstration. Maybe that explains it better?



[edit on 10/17/2005 by DiabolusFireDragon]

Originally posted by Nygdan
How about, rather than that, we just not cry about the 'poor nazis' who are being mistreated and not be expected to sympathise with them. Gosh, those poor maligned nazis, having people get violent merely because they want to exterminate the other races and establish a national socialist white dictatorship in the US.

No one is saying that the people who rioted are justified, but who really gives a damn if some nazis got a little of what they try to dish out??

People aren't really complaining about the neo-nazis getting attacked.

They are complaining about how the gangs attacked police officers and ambulances, looted and set fire to a building.

If the gangs had directed their hate a little better I don't think we'd be having a discussion that's this long. That's not what happened though. Instead of going after the neo-nazis, they engaged in violence and destruction against unrelated persons and targets.

Actually, I have a problem with them attacking the Neo-Nazi's. You'll never beat something that lives off of hate by attacking the members and also that is what seperates us from them.

We allow free speech, we allow protest and we take the moral high ground but instead 'we' went down to their live and we allowed them to bring us down to it. This has only helped them proove their point and has made 'us' look worse than we in fact are. If nobody attacked them, nobody would have given a flying one about their protest.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
If the gangs had directed their hate a little better I don't think we'd be having a discussion that's this long. That's not what happened though. Instead of going after the neo-nazis, they engaged in violence and destruction against unrelated persons and targets.

I think in this case the rioters see the police and the nazis in the same light...both fascists. Farrakhan's million more weekend got them all fired up towards 'let's get whitie" ideas and the nazi march was just a trigger effect to rage against the system.

There will be more of these, as the polarization of society spreads.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Listen. They are nazis. They are not direct descendants of the SS and the NDSAP, yes. So what. Their ideology is the nazi ideology. Therefore, they are nazis. There are maoists who've never been to china, they're still maoists.

No. They're not. They have no real clue what their ideology is, other than getting drunk and spouting BS. The communist party is stlll alive and well. The communists are in control of actual militaries, not redneck militias. You're comparison is pointless.

Thats what the nazis were.

They were also in control of an entire country, and again, an actual military.

Everyone dies under hitler's plan.

I thought it was the establishment of a master race, but according to you, he planned to kill everybody? I was not aware of that. He was quite insane so you may be right, but I doubt he planned to kill everyone.

You seem to have some sort of reading problem. I said no such thing.

Oh?

They're nazis. Not merely racists or KKKers even, they're nazis, what do you think they are going to do if they ever get in charge??

What did you mean by what you stated above? Merely KKK? What kind of reading problem would you say I have? Seems uttterly clear to me. Also, you're under some illusion that the KKK and the neos are a seperate group, they are one and the same today. Go to a KKK rally and you'll see abunch of skinheads and rednecks, go to a neo-nazi rally, and you'll find the same exact people.

You seem to think that these guys are 'just' racists, ie not actually nazis. They are beyond the kkk, they are nazis.

Of course their not nazis, how many Panzer tanks do they have? How many bombers? And again they're the same as the KKK, they've been merged for some time and consist of the same toothless, drunken members.

Since the nazis weren't in the US until after the war, this shoudln't be much of a surprise. The nazis did more harm to the jews than teh KKK, but that hardly means that jews should attend KKK rallies.

Who said blacks should attend nazi rallies? And you think I'm the one with the reading problem? I'm just saying the blacks should have had a peaceful rally of their own, to counter the nazi rally. They could have shouted as much hateful crap as they wanted at the nazis, as long as they didn't get physical, but instead they went berzerk. What do they care what a small group of inbred hillbillies think about them? I highly doubt they felt threatened, they live under a far greater threat from members of opposing gangs their own skin color.

Are you here to have a discussion or no? Who's better, hitler and mengele, or Ice-T and a crack dealer?

Better at what? Being scumbags? Ice-T is an actor, and Hitler and Mengele weren't in Toledo this weekend, so as far as this topic goes the crack dealers were most in the wrong.

Ok, so we've established that you're a racist who thinks that blacks are animals who riot and kill over nothing and white people just 'think differently' and are 'better behaved'.

There it is. Now I'm a racist. What took you so long to accuse me of being a racist? I guess you can point out to me then where I stated all blacks are animals. When gangbangers riot, they do kill over nothing, you still haven't shown me any documentation that in the Bon Jovi and political riots you referred to, people were beaten or intentionally killed by the mobs. How many Bon Jovi concerts erupt in gangfights and gunfire, how many Bill & Ted movies? Gangbangers are animals, and it has nothing to do with their skin. But call me a racist all you want, just shows your frustration with the fact you're wrong.

What exactly do you think the nazis and kkk do on their weekends?

I'd imagine they get drunk, sit around and use racial slurs. Or maybe go to a punk rock show and feel tough around a bunch of scrawny punkers, and controlling the mosh pits, which is about the extent of their control. Sure, if a group of them happens upon somebody alone, they may jump them. But they would probably jump a lone white guy just as quick. A couple skins here in Phoenix beat a white kid to death a few years back, and what do you think would happen to a lone white guy walking the streets of Compton at night? He's got a far greater chance of being f----d up there for the color of his skin, than a black dude walking alone in the south, where most of the white supremecists reside. Do you live in a big city? Maybe you just aren't aware of the realities of one. Of course I'm just assuming.

Y
I really don't understand why you are not competent enough to actually understand what you are reading.

You sure are abusive for a moderator. Maybe I did misunderstand you, but it really seems like you feel that even though gangbangers who are murderous violent drug pushers, were the only ones to break the law, they are in the right because you have a deep personal (justified) hatred for the third reich, and since these rednecks, very few of whom have the balls to do anything other than shout profanities, stole their symbol, you can't seem to grasp that they're not the actual third reich, or even an offshoot. They will never be in control of any army, hell there was only two dozen attending this rally. They don't have numbers, and the only thing that's gonna help them with that, is if control of the streets isn't taken back from violent gangbanging thugs who make people feel threatened.

they're more okay than neo-nazis

Gosh, now you're starting to get it. Nazis go torwards the top of the 'evil scumbag' pyramid, gang-bangers more torwards the middle. Good job. Next week, we'll look at why jaywalking, tho illegal, is not as back as arson.

That's cute. Cut up what I really said to make it look like I agree with you. I don't have an 'evil scumbag' pyramid, I dislike them all equally. Gangbangers are not more okay than anybody.

How about, rather than that, we just not cry about the 'poor nazis' who are being mistreated and not be expected to sympathise with them. Gosh, those poor maligned nazis, having people get violent merely because they want to exterminate the other races and establish a national socialist white dictatorship in the US.

I wasn't crying about anything, I just found it ironic that the "victims" were acting worse than the "victimizers". That's all. Please show me anywhere that the neo-nazis have stated they want to exterminate the other races, they want to live seperate, not exterminate. That's one main difference between them and the real nazis.

No one is saying that the people who rioted are justified, but who really gives a damn if some nazis got a little of what they try to dish out??

The nazis didn't get a little of anything, they weren't injured. It was the local business owners and the ambulance that got a little from the rioters.

Too bad the blacks didnt kick the crap out of those hitlerjugend as well as the nazi police protecting their "rights"
If you dont finish 1st grade of school you shouldnt even have the right to protest on the street




what i find mind boggling is that some posters here think its ok to march down the street with your hand streched out, with swastikas and all....what year is this, 1939 ?

Regenmacher, Mayor Jack Ford is BLACK!!!!!! I don't know if you knew that or not...

Also, the Neo Nazis had every right to march, they weren't going to do anything violent, the Blacks they were protesting against did EVERYTHING!!!!!

People, for those who do't understand...

THE NEO NAZIS IN TOLEDO DID NOTHING WRONG!!!!!!!!!! IT WAS THE BLACKS THEY WERE PROTESTING AGAINST THAT DID EVERYTHING!!!!!

The bar they burnt down? 84 year old Polish guy owned it. Over 50 years of owning/working there and no problems until the BLACKS riot over nothing. The Neos didn't even march because the blacks had already started proving the Neos point.

And for all you "Well they are black so it is ok for them to riot, burn buildings down, do drugs, rape people, kill people, shoot at the police, break into my house and rape my daughter after killing me and my wife then robbing it." Stop making excuses for the animals that did this. There was no point to this, there was no cause and effect just effect.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by Full Metal]

Please keep the discussion civil and on topic.

Geeezzzzz....
and so by doing the very thing the crazy aryans were claiming... they proved them wrong... NOT...

too bad this little bit of irony isn't on the other side of the fence... because it HURTS.

Little to say except "poor dumba$$es just missed a great opportunity to shut the aryans down... and instead pushed back black progress by a couple of decades...

choices people... everyone is important...

and it is not the responsibility of the police to prevent public gatherings... but the location should have drawn some raised eyebrows.
Perhaps the Aryan nation should be required to hire off duty police to protect them when they do something this stupid (but turned out to be pretty sly).

Why do I have to pay for a highly controversial groups fun run?

If I was wanting to host a michael moore party at the national republicans convention, I would hardly expect the taxpayers to be required to pay for my idiocy...

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
to pay for a highly controversial groups fun run?

I am sure you yourself can answer this, if you bother to think about it.

The job of the Police is to protect innocent people from those who wish to do crimes upon them. Their job is to "Keep the Peace". No matter your view on the Neo-Nazi's opinion they have not broken any laws so what they are doing is not illegally. Now, what they say and what they wish for they have not got yet and that opinion they are allowed to have.

That is one of the fundemental parts of democracy, people being able to have different opinions. They day we get to decide [Government] on who can hold a protest and whose opinion to protect that is when it dies because you will find extreme groups go first and then the others follow suit until only one is left.

That is not democracy, being able to disagree with one another at a rational level is. As soon as the Neo-Nazi's step over the line they should be punished, but protesting isn't that line. If it was, we would still be stuck in a much worse era.

Odium,
freedom of speech isn't the issue as much as yelling "hey n*gger" in the middle of a black gang neighborhood... (fire in a theatre analogy)

Is it right that some 30 police are being paid tax dollars to protect a controversial group that wants to initiate a confrontation? NO!

If they wanted to say their filth on the streetcorner of some very white area, then let them be laughed at... but they would probably not be attacked and require (30) police to protect them either... so why do they get to draw all this tax money to their cause? I didn't support what they say, but only their right to say it... but how about adding this qualifier..."if they can say it without requiring tax money supporting it".

so when a white supremist group walks into my permit application office, I am thinking I will charge extra for the additional police required for security...
and when they say "we want to march through a all black borrough" the price for that extra security just skyrocketed...

I am guessing that the aryans would be fine with marching at walmart for $1000 permit vs marching in a black borrough for a $20,000 permit.. and if that was the way it was operated, then there would have been no riot...

everyone gets to say what they want, just not where they want... (you can yell fire just fine in a field, a shooting range, a work meeting, a open air parking lot, and no one will care... just not in a theater.

Problem is, they didn't do anything wrong and this is one of the largest problems with society right now.

Just because you disagree with what one group says, doesn't mean they do not have the right to say it. This goes for every group on the planet and these Black Areas need to realise this. If a little work was done in the Community and they bothered to take a moment to think about this they would have known more harm would be done by not attacking them.

As for placing the line, "if they can say it without requiring tax money supporting it" is highly subjective. Civil Rights would have had a much harder time if this was how it was done. In fact so would women's liberation and many other important things.

Our right to protest, is a fundemental part of our society and to be honest, I wouldn't give a damn if any Neo-Nazi's began to walk down my road and in fact, I have had the BNP and National Front come down this road before. You know what? None of my neighbours, who are primarily Asian gave a damn we sat and watched it and laughed our ass off as they got annoyed we didn't attack them.

And on tax payers money...the Police are paid to keep the peace. That is their job. Your arguement that they should only be paid to do it, for set groups isn't logical. If a girl "promotes" being raped by being in a set area and wearing a set outfit, she should be protected by the Police.

If these Neo-Nazi's wish to walk down a street and make their point, let them. If anyone attacks them the Police should do their job and protect them. If they attack anyone, the Police should do their job...that is it. We can not decide who they should protect and when they should protect them. It can't work like that in society otherwise it is open to abuse.