HMS Invincible sunk in 1982

Originally posted by TheIrishDuck

Falklands not a country dear boy.
Are islands, and not Falklands, i´d prefer you say Malvinas.

They are technically a British Overseas territory if your going to be padantic.

And they are called the Falklands. You had a go at claiming them and got whoooped silly. Your not having them. Ever. Not a chance.

You are, however, welcome to try again, but be warned, this time round we are much better equipped and will invade the mainland just to make sure.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by TheIrishDuck

Falklands not a country dear boy.
Are islands, and not Falklands, i´d prefer you say Malvinas.

They are technically a British Overseas territory if your going to be padantic.

And they are called the Falklands. You had a go at claiming them and got whoooped silly. Your not having them. Ever. Not a chance.

You are, however, welcome to try again, but be warned, this time round we are much better equipped and will invade the mainland just to make sure.

What? if you read the UN resolution number 2065, it says you can say Malvinas or Falklands, is the same.

Regards.

Originally posted by TheIrishDuck

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Didn't you guys know? Mossad is responsible for all terrorist attacks everywhere in the world, and Israel knows everything about everything. Jeeze guys, get a clue here!

We are talking here about the Invincible.

You souldn´t watch too much tv, and south park get you stupid.

It's called SARCASM look it up. And it WAS relevant to the topic since your alter ego claims that Isareli people told him that it was true that it was sunk. Learn to read what you, I mean your friend posts.

Originally posted by TheIrishDuck

What? if you read the UN resolution number 2065, it says you can say Malvinas or Falklands, is the same.

Regards.

Ahem....so?

Who do the Islands belong too? Hmmmm? We call them the Falklands. Because they are ours. You have no claim to them.

Its like the bloody Italians claiming Britain because of the Romans, or Spain putting a claim on Mexico...It aint going to happen.

The people that live there call themselves British.

Originally posted by 55heroes

.

Why if you think is a ceremony of salutation, is there a helicopter???????
Giving presents may be?



And the people of the ship, with bags and that´s things they are waiting to pass to the Illsutrious.

Mmmmm, it´s so strange...

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by TheIrishDuck

What? if you read the UN resolution number 2065, it says you can say Malvinas or Falklands, is the same.

Regards.

Ahem....so?

Who do the Islands belong too? Hmmmm? We call them the Falklands. Because they are ours. You have no claim to them.

Its like the bloody Italians claiming Britain because of the Romans, or Spain putting a claim on Mexico...It aint going to happen.

The people that live there call themselves British.

So???

If i want i can call them Malvinas.

What, you think they're going to put everything below decks when they render honors? I can think of a couple different reasons there's a helicopter involved without even thinking very hard.

If i want i can call them Malvinas.

Hey, chap, you're the one who asked us a few posts ago to call them the Malvinas. You said, in your own words "I would prefer it if you called them Malvinas".

We would prefer it if you stopped this stupid attempt to salvage some national pride from a himliatiing defeat, but you won't will you?

Why if you think is a ceremony of salutation, is there a helicopter???????
Giving presents may be?

And the people of the ship, with bags and that´s things they are waiting to pass to the Illsutrious.

So let me get this straight....

In that photo, that is when the evacuated the Invincable onto the Hermes?


Then were are the holes? Where is the columns of smoke?

Where is the sinking ship?

Yo sigo sin entender los alegatos de los ingleses.
Dicen que el Illustrious salio a recibir al Hermes en Julio de 1982.

Alli lo que se puede ver es a muchisima gente en la banda de babor del Hermes, y bastante menos gente en el Illustrious.

Hay un helicoptero en la proa de Lusty y otro en la popa del Hermes que parecen estar en movimiento o realizando alguna tarea extra, no relacionada con una ceremonia de bienvenida.

Acerca de esta supuesta ceremonia de bienvenida del Lusty, no existe ninguna bibliografia cierta ni antecedente probable, que la nombre.

Parece una argumentacion desesperada de los ingleses, los que al verse sorprendidos en falta, inventan una historia casi imposible.

Y lo mas extraño es que por un lado afirmen que la absurda espera en el medio del mar por mas de 90 dias luego del fin de la guerra, del Invincible se debe a que el illustrious aun no estaba terminado.

En esta foto vemos que el Lusty estaba terminado y operable en Julio.

Entonces, suponiendo que realmente hiciera falta un portaaviones liviano VSTOL en Falklands...por que demoraron su llegada hasta el 26 de agosto de 1982, segun cuuenta la historia oficial britanica?

Desde el final de la guerra el 14/6/82 los ingleses disponian de una pista en Puerto Stanley, perfectamente operable para Harriers y Sea Kings(hasta el 13/6 habian operado los Hercules C130 de la FAA, sin ningun problema)
y tenian desde fines de Mayo otra pista auxiliar en San Carlos.

Si se toma por cierta la version inglesa, en un momento tienen circulando inutilmente tres portaaviones, algo totalmente innecesarios.

Uno de los cuales tiene un reclamo de averia por parte de la fuerza enemiga, me refiero al Invincible, y que insólitamente se dice que esta 3 meses circulando, sin tomar ningun puerto cierto...

Repito, los ingleses tenian dos pistas en Falklands...

y al Hermes, al Illustrious...
entonces, para que mantener al Invincible sin ninguna mision cierta, tortuarndo a su tripulacion en el medio del mar, en invierno y a una latitud donde la vida se hace insoportable, en esa fecha.

Es tan absurda y contradictoria la historia oficial inglesa acerca del Invincible, que pareciera una burla o una falta de respeto a la tradicional inteligencia inglesa.
Quienes ademas son los mas tradicionales, famosos y experimentados marinos de la historia del planeta tierra.

Es absolutamente injustificable e impresentable toda la historia oficial inglesa.
Nadie entiende por que si directamente tomaron la decision politica de negar el ataque, el buque no aparecio en Puerto Stanley como si lo hizo por ejemplo el Hermes.
Y por que no fue el primer buque en retornar a UK, si tenia un gemelo identico para hacer el recambio, en Julio?
Suponiendo que este recambio fuese necesario.

En un escenario logico de postguerra habiendo arribado una cantidad mas que suficiente de buques de reemplazo, con tripualciones frescas y descansadas, lo normal para cualquier Armada o Marina del mundo es mandar de inmediato de regreso a casa a todos los buques que participaron de la guerra.

Toda esta historia de ciencia ficcion o de realismo magico, que inventan los ingleses, es completamente absurda.
A quien se le ocurre que un buque con problemas en una de 4 turbinas, se va a ir al medio del mar a realizar un recambio de fortuna, en invierno y a mas de 50 grados de latitud sur?
Dode por ejemplo el agua se congela y dilata por las noches.
Ese buque aun con su motricidad reducida debio haber vuelto de inmediato a UK o realizar todas las tareas de mantenimiento fondeado en un puerto. Es elemental.
Cualquier persona con una minima experiencia en el mar o embarcado en un buque o barco, sabe que la historia inglesa no se puede sostener.

Hubo un movimiento innecesario y hasta grotesco de buques para ocultar o confundir un evidente daño de guerra.
Ese daño es la perdida del Portahelicopteros Invincible, cuyo casco de referencia es el R05, construido por Vickers.

Buque que no fue ni reparado, ni recibio ninguna turbina nueva, sino que fue hundido y su daño ocultado en forma bastante torpe, y luego reemplazado por un gemelo que parte con un nombre y luego se rematricula con el del buque perdido.

El reclamo argentino es muy solido.
Es claro y bien fundamentado.
La ARA y la FAA reclaman por lo que pudieron observar los pilotos de A4C, o sea por el daño, ellos solo pueden observar la averia. No el hundimiento.

Investigadores y analistas historicos argentinos, valiendose de informacion de colecciones privadas de fotos britanicas, informacion privada, innumerables relatos y testimonios coincidentes, concluyen en una teoria solidamente fundamentada.
El hundimiento del Invincible ha sido ocultado, como se hizo casi 40 años atras con el HMS-Dasher.

Y ese es uno de los hechos que ha motivado el cierre de los archivos confidenciales britanicos del conflicto Falklands/Malvinas.

Una guerra inducida por UK, que se deja arrebatar las islas, para luego hacer una guerra de propaganda belica contra un obscuro dictador latinoamericano. (casi un guion cinematografico de Hollywood)

Una enorme torpeza de los ultraconservadores Tatcher y Reagan, asistidos por el imbecil Galtieri, que termino en un desastre militar britanico, y que le costo decenas de miles de millones de dolares a los ciudadanos britanicos.
Innecesarias vidas perdidas a ambas naciones.

Y que incluso pudo haber terminado mucho peor, con una escalada nuclear de consecuencias impredecibles para el planeta.

Un error que todos los que estamos estudiando la hipotesis del hundimiento del Invincible, no queremos que se vuelva a repetir.
-----------------------
Si no dominan el idioma español, pueden usar cualquiera de los traductores en linea. Les va a ser mucho mas util que estar censurando, condicionando, insultando o burlandose de argumentaciones a las que no tienen nada que contraponer. Salvo especulaciones o arrebatos.

Suponemos que no estara prohibido escribir en un idioma diferente del ingles. Y suponemos que no habra tal tipo de discriminaciones xenofobicas.
mas de 540 posts han sido en ingles, uno solo es en español.;

Reparing a turbine can be done at sea, so why wouldn't the fix it. But again, you're ignoring one very very important point. Illustrious, and Ark Royal are 210 Meters long. Invincible is 194. WHERE DID THE 16 METERS GO?

55 heroes....


Why, oh why, did you have to go and do that?

Now I cannot understand a single word you are saying...

Bloody Argies....

Zaphod the situation is simple:

Royal Navy say:
Two short hull
One long hull

Other sources (against Royal Navy)say:
Two long hull
One short hull

For the britsh is simple to know, who has the truth:

If the Illustrious is a long hull (210 m) the argentine reclaim is true
Is the original hull R07 (long) who has renamed to R06
(and the R06 renamed to R05)

If the Illustrious is a short hull (194) the Royal Navy is not a lier.
Then the actual R06 Illustrious is the original Illustrious
And the R05 is the original R05, not sunk. Maybe repaired, but not sunk.

For you it is easy and simple to know the truth.
---------
Of course than a turbine can change in the middle of the sea.
But is a stupidity if you have a comfortable and safe port, does not have logical justification. In winter and more than 50° Lat Sur, is pathetic.
----------

Che, Stumason (supongo que sos el hijo de Stuma) por que, (al menospor respeto a tus compatriotas muertos innecesariamente en Falklands) no intentas estudiar español?

Te lo digo por que haces el papel de ridiculo hooligan cibernético (barra brava en español)
En lugar de insultar y putear como un ignorante, por que no haces un esfuerzo y habilitas alguna parte de la materia gris de tu cerebro.

Nosotros estamos investigando la verdad, no por sangrones o sangrantes, sino por que segun la historia de Tatcher y la RN, nuestros heroes Ureta e Isaac mienten y son unos charlatanes.

O sea que no solo estan ocultando torpemente undaño obvio sino que estan calumniando a los heroes de otra nacion. Tan honorable como UK.

Buque sangrante le llamaba el enfermero/a transexual Lynda Cash, al Invincible
Y segun sus dichos, debio cambiar de sexo por el trauma psicologico que le produjo ver tantos heridos y muertos en los feroces ataques que recibio el buque sangrante.
El Invincible era tambien un buque hospital?
Changing sexs, es el nuevo programa de la BBC?

Y te concluyo, a ver si te ubicas y dejas de hacerte el banana.
Nosotros creemos que los ciudadanos ingleses tambien han sido estafados por Tatcher que los mando a una guerra estupidamente innecesaria, contra un pais que no era su enemigo.
Y queremos que sepan realmente lo que les costó la guerra en vidas, material y dinero, para que la próxima vez que un primer ministro tenga problemas de popularidad o ustedes tengan problemas economicos, no encaren guerras innecesarias y luego escondan los daños debajo de la alfombra. Si perdieron un portaaviones sean caballeros y admitanlo.
Aunque no lo creas he tenido muchos conocidos y alguna amiga, ingleses que viven en Argentina.
Y no quiero mirarlos como enemigos o como a gente mentirosa.

Los unicos ganadores de la guerra fueron los kelpers, los que a ustedes deben defender pagando millones de dolares y a nosotros nos estan destruyendo el ecosistema pesquero del Atlantico Sur, vendiendo licencias a los pesqueros asiáticos.
Los 3000 kelpers y los pesqueros asiaticos ganaron la guerra.

Dos grandes naciones como Argentina y UK perdieron, por estar gobernados por estupidos sinverguenzas. Nosotros no votamos a Galtieri, y caundo termino la guerra lo echamos a patadas.

Les estamos contando que es lo que realmente paso con el Invincible, basicamente para que nuestros heroes no sean tomados por mentirosos, para que Tatcher no crea que es mas astuta que James Bond, y tambien para que vayan pensando en solucionar el problema, de encontrar una salida justa y honorable.
Para dos grandes naciones que no tienen por que ser amigas, pero tampoco es necesario que se odien o sean enemigas.

Es simple, anda y medi el Lusty...y si mide 210 metros, no le reclames a Lawrence Lewelin Bowen (Changing rooms) sino a Tatcher y demas mentirosos...por que ... te lo cambiaron!!
Te LOS cambiaron R06 (short) por R05
y R07 (long) por R06

Y si no podes estar a la altura de un debate serio y respetuoso, al menos cerra la boca.

On the contrary. British sources say THREE long hull. If you look at the stats for the THREE Invincible Class CVS carriers, the OFFICIAL length is 210 meters, however the Invincible was 194 meters.

Oh, and those mysterious helicopters that are flying when they're passing by? Cargo transfer, personnel transfer, message transfer, etc. There are any number of probably a dozen things they could be doing since the two ships were in close quarters with each other. And by "personnel transfer" I'm talking about one or two sailers that were transferring to another ship that was staying in the area, so they took them off on, and put them on the other.

Also as far as rendering honors goes, read the link I posted before about it. it specifically states, "IF THE OTHER SHIP IS AWARE......" If one of the two carriers decided to render honors and didn't tell the other one, then one would have crew lined up on deck and the other wouldn't. So that shoots down that idea.

[edit on 9/21/2005 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by TheIrishDuck

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by 55heroes
Off the record members of Israel armed forces admit that the invincible was sunk and replaced by a sister.

Of course, why didn't I think of that? Just ask the Israelis if you want to know what your government is covering up.

Falklands, Falklands, Falklands
The place where I want to be
Falklands, Falklands, Falklands
The country where I belong...

Basil Fawlty: (after bashing Manuel several times against the newly, and incorrectly, installed wall, reducing Manuel to insensibility) "Major, please show Manuel how to reach the dining room through the kitchen."

Falklands not a country dear boy.
Are islands, and not Falklands, i´d prefer you say Malvinas.

I really don't care what you'd prefer, they're not your islands, mate.

And I was misquoting Monty Python's Finland song, as composed and sung by Michael Palin.

55heroes was a real pi$$ant, he was very rarely stable
Theirishduck was a boozy beggar, he could drink you under the table
Arkantos they say, could sick it away, half a crate of whiskey every day...

55heroes - where did the 16m extra length from Illutrious go when she `became` invincible?


answer the damn question.

R05 = 194m

R06 - 210m

answer the question.

Originally posted by TheIrishDuck


Falklands not a country dear boy.
Are islands, and not Falklands, i´d prefer you say Malvinas.

We the british dont really care what you prefer...

Originally posted by stumason

Why if you think is a ceremony of salutation, is there a helicopter???????
Giving presents may be?

And the people of the ship, with bags and that´s things they are waiting to pass to the Illsutrious.

So let me get this straight....

In that photo, that is when the evacuated the Invincable onto the Hermes?


Then were are the holes? Where is the columns of smoke?

Where is the sinking ship?

I shall repeat myself as you never know, they might actually answer one of our questions...


Well....

I can live in hope, can't I?



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[edit on 21/9/05 by stumason]

In the Royal Navy Official Page you can read:

The fifth vessel to bear the proud name. Ark Royal was built by Swan Hunters Ship Builders’ yard at Wallsend in December 1978 and launched by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. HMS Ark Royal was accepted into service on July 1 1985.

HMS Ark Royal is larger than her 2 sisters, Invincible and Illustrious, at 210 metres (683 feet) long. She has a maximum beam of 36 metres (117 feet) and a displacement of 20,000 tonnes.

4 Olympus gas turbine engines (like Concorde’s) propel the ship, which give a maximum speed in excess of 30 knots. A steeper ski jump than in the other ships of this class is fitted at the forward end of the flight deck.

HMS Ark Royal is planned to remain in active service until 2015 when the next generation of aircraft carriers will enter service.

The Ship's motto is 'Zeal Does Not Rest'

www.royal-navy.mod.uk...

I repeat:

HMS Ark Royal is larger than her 2 sisters, Invincible and Illustrious, at 210 metres (683 feet) long. She has a maximum beam of 36 metres (117 feet) and a displacement of 20,000 tonnes

Of course, this is the begin of the history:

R05 Vickers - Short: HMS Invincible
R06 Swan Hunter - Short: HMS Illustrious
R07 Swan Hunter - Long: HMS Ark Royal

But the end the History shows:

R05 Vickers - Short: HMS Invincible Sunk in Falklands 30/5/82
R06 Swan Hunter - Short: HMS Illustrious Renamed as R05 HMS Invincible
R07 Swan Hunter - Long: HMS Ark Royal Renamed as R06 HMS Illustrious
---------------------------
R08 Indeterminate buildshipper - Long hull: Renamed as R07 Ark Royal

If you have a two long hull ships, the argentine position has the thruth
And the heroes of FAA (Argentine Air Force) Enrique Ureta and Gerardo Isaac, are not a liers.
They finished the Invincible UK Carrier, in a unnecessary war.