Looting vs. Survival

Originally posted by StickyG
Conspicuouz,

So the blacks "loot" and whitey "finds". Is that the point you are making?
nothing to see here...move along.

peace

I don't think Conspicuouz is actually implying anything other than to suggest to people, its a good idea not to take as gospel reports made in the media without questioning the motives and prejudices of the actual reporter(s).



I hope that clarifies Conspicuouz's point, how you choose to interpret is wholey dependent on how broad your outlook is.

[edit on 1-9-2005 by Koka]

Yeah I know that there is a Thall shall not kill. But if They are stealing without punishment then I believe that people have the right to protect their property by any means necessary.

Looti ng


This is why looting does not help survival. Read above link

Tempers flared elsewhere across the devastated region. Police said a man in Hattiesburg, Miss., fatally shot his sister in the head over a bag of ice. Dozens of carjackings were reported, including a nursing home bus. One officer was shot in the head and a looter was wounded in a shootout. Both were expected to survive.

If we give officers and police the power to stop this BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY. this crap won't happen

to me i believe they can "loot" food and water for survival in moral terms. but if people are just taking plasma tvs or dvds then i will definitely arrest them and put them in jail.

Originally posted by svenglezz
I feel so bad for her kids.

Me too, what kind of jerkoff of a parent sits there while a category five hurricane is slowly steaming on to your below sea-level 200 year old city? Protective services should probably pick them up.

if it was my store I'd take my gems out'a there

So now the owners who were smart enough to leave the city as this massive hurricane the size of the country of france hit them, they have to return to this lawless, martial law ruled, rioting and violent looter filled city to put their gems in a sack and then try to make it out? Er, no, looting is illegal, it will lead to complete chaos in that city, and the people who are going to be needed to rebuild it, sensible business owners who's stores survived the storm, are going to be destroyed by these looters.

something wrong with these pictures

The looter has stolen a big black bags worth of stuff, the other people are carrying bread. Besides, whats wrong here? There are two sides to every story, theres the human tragedy of having to scrounge for food, and there's the illegal looting. The same act is at the same time two things. One of those pics is for a story about the human tragedy, the other is about the out of control looting.

mistfit
on your state of welfare within your current way of life

I'm basing it on the fact that this woman was stealing. There were five days of warnings about this hurricane hitting the gulf coast, and there was more than enough time to leave the city. After it hit, there are plenty of governmental services for people. She chose to stay in the city. She chose to not buildup a stockpile of food and water. She chose to steal. This was what, a day or two after the event? And again, she's stealing disposable diapers? She should've gotten some cloth diapers at least and washed them for her kids, not broke into some store, stolen a bunch of stuff, and then ran from the police so that they had to take her to the ground. She's a criminal, its simple. They had to arrest her. Having said that, I can see the judge being very lenient, or even charges not beign pressed, because the major concern is stopping the looting, not putting people in jail. Meanwhile, they should pick up her kids and family and move them to shelters.

GTWill
had no access to leaving the area

Thats BS. There isn't a wall around the city, they're not shackled to their flooboards. They should've left, they don't get to stay, and then loot and claim its perfectly allright.

jsobecky
How do we compare price-gougers with looters? What they do *may* be legal, but is it right? Should they also be penalized?

Price gouging in these situations is illegal. Charging lots of money for luxuries like tvs is not.

StickyG
So the blacks "loot" and whitey "finds"

The woman in the first pic is black and playing the part of jean val jean, literally taking a loaf of bread. The person in the other photos has a huge bag of stuff. You think its full of bread and evaporated milk?

zaphod58
There has already been a police officer shot in the face, he's expected to survive thank god, and a police station got shot up by an AK47.

And thus the shock and stun of disaster slowly turns from benevolent anarchy into violent chaos, with lots of people insisting that the theivery and complete disrespect for the law is absolutely necessary.

the power to stop this BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY. this crap won't happen

It hardly justifies killing everyone to prevent them from killing each other. The veneer of civilization is thin, it can be broken by savagery, like looting, or by wanton abuse of power. There is a civilized middle ground. Looting is illegal, and dangerous, its the cracking of the veneer. It has to be stopped, by rounding up and arresting people that do it, and by putting police and military on the streets. Louisiana has 11,000 national guardsmen, 3,000 are in Iraq, and apparently half or less of the remainder were active to be ready for this hurricane. All of them need to be activated, and neighbhoring states will need to activate theirs and send them in. I don't know if Louisiana has any militias, but they'd need to be sent in too. Hopefully enough boats and such can be commandeered also to aid in presenting a massed police pressence. And they have to prevent everyone from looting anything. The Police can comandeer grocery stores and disperse foodstuffs, but looting should allways be an arrestable offense. No need to gun everyone down tho. Its martial LAW, not savage dictatorial rule.

But every crackaholic I ever booked screamed "I got kids at home--somebody go get my kids! Let me go so I can get my kids!"

Not that she wasn't honest. or anything.

But If I was going looting in Nawlins this afternoon (and we HAVE one kid in diapers), I would not go armed, and I'd take the whole family. Jack-Jack covered in poop is way better than having him in a flooded house with just the older ones. Besides, the cops would let you stay together.

If the diapers are for HER kids--who's watching them while she steals.

You all joke about laptops from walmart.

But Ipods are useless in the Big Sleazy for the next couple of months.

On the other hand, the barter value of clean diapers and sterile formula just went through the roof, didn't they?

But hey, go ahead. take all the shots you want at the Local Law Enforcement. Everyone else is.

Just remember all this 'tude y'all are pulling, when you wake up in someplace like Nawlins, and the local chief of police has said "screw the public, I'm going to become a Local Warlord Robber Baron . . ."

i can understand the looting to a point. lke said above though, i would have myself armed with my couple guns and be on my way out with my wife. hell yes i would take food and drink. people are stealing tv's and such and yes it is wrong but what are you gonna do? let them have at it.
people need rescued. i hate to see the troops sent in have to deal with looters when they can be passing out food and drink to the people that need it. however, the people that are ariming themselves and walking the streets waving guns and going to loot people homes on high ground needs to be stopped. that is a big difference from carrying a weapon in your pants to protect yourself in case someone trys to take things you have and waving shotguns in the air in the open clearly looking to start trouble.

The kind that pulls a big long banner behind it.


I would do this as I led in the MP's and national guardsmen. The banner would read like this:


YOU LOOT ---- WE SHOOT

you have to understand that not everyone could leave. some of these people have no transportation, no money, they are not able to travel.
where are they gonna go? should they have went to the dome and now be held there and seperated from their family? they took up shelter in their homes and rode out the storm. now they need to survive. it's not like if they would have evacuated to the domes or the gyms they would be any better off. people are getting hurt and are still hungry and thirsty at the dome. they are also being forced to stay there. at least the people that rode it out have the little freedom to move around and walk themselves out if they can.

looting computers, tv's, ipods, beer, and such is horrible and it shows people true colors but that is human nature. looting diapers, food, water, drink, and even arms i can understand.

cnn interviewed 3 people that look to be about 16-18 and they admit to looting shoes. they said that a police officer stuck a gun in their face for no reason and took their shoes so they decided to go get new shoes. they had big bags with several pairs of shoes in them. i find it hard to believe that the cop just held them at gunpoint and stoled their shoes for no reason.

Maybe the cop was a shoe fetishist, and he wanted the sneakers of some unbathed teenagers who'd been wading through the "tea" produced by hurricane waters bubbling up through the sewer drains, and topped off with the decaying bodies of drowned pets and birds. . .

Yeah, those cops are real sickos.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft


Maybe the cop was a shoe fetishist, and he wanted the sneakers of some unbathed teenagers who'd been wading through the "tea" produced by hurricane waters bubbling up through the sewer drains, and topped off with the decaying bodies of drowned pets and birds. . .

Yeah, those cops are real sickos.

it just so "looked" like the 3 guys that were robbed of their shoes by the cop looked and acted like your typical low life thug. not saying they were but thats what they looked and acted like. i guess the cop picked those poor guys for no reason and decided to take their shoes so they decided to rob footlocker themselves for 10 pairs. whatever

Originally posted by Nygdan
what kind of jerkoff of a parent sits there while a category five hurricane is slowly steaming on to your below sea-level 200 year old city? Protective services should probably pick them up.

The kind that can't afford to leave. But go ahead, blame the victims. It's the New American Way, ...

So now the owners who were smart enough to leave the city as this massive hurricane the size of the country of france hit them, they have to return to this lawless, martial law ruled, rioting and violent looter filled city to put their gems in a sack and then try to make it out?

...to defend and protect corporate industry.

Good job. Keep at it.

...sensible business owners who's stores survived the storm, are going to be destroyed by these looters.

Unlike the ordinary people who were just made homeless, killed, bankrupted, and left to fend for themselves in the eye of the storm. [tsk]

... this woman was stealing. There were five days of warnings about this hurricane hitting the gulf coast, and there was more than enough time to leave the city.

But not for the wealthy to remove or secure their valuables? Or for government to institute reasonable and effective measures to handle the predicted catastrophe? Before it hit?

After it hit, there are plenty of governmental services for people.

Read much? Even emergency centers were evacuated by helicopter.

She chose to stay in the city. She chose to not buildup a stockpile of food and water. She chose to steal. This was what, a day or two after the event? And again, she's stealing disposable diapers?

Your compassion, and awareness regarding the concept of choice, are downright overwhelming. Not. FYI - poverty prevents choice. It's called an economic barrier.

She should've gotten some cloth diapers at least and washed them for her kids,

In contaminated water? Then, you presumably would blame her for making her children sick, or say their illness resulted from inherent genetic weakness, resulting from her choice to give birth. Either way, it would be on her shoulders as a personal responsibility.

You arguments are nothing if not CONSISTENT. Bravo!

She's a criminal, its simple.

More black and white consistency, lacking in compassion and vision.

Meanwhile, they should pick up her kids and family and move them to shelters.

Are you ready to threaten the entire nation with child appropriation for non-compliance? The current crises are endemic and systemic - and MUCH, much too big, and widespread, to be resolved in that way. Back to the drawing board big guy.

The woman in the first pic is black and playing the part of jean val jean, literally taking a loaf of bread.

And that book/movie should be mandatory education for everyone living in these times - lest we forget the heroine of the story, or the signs of the times.

The veneer of civilization is thin, it can be broken by savagery, like looting, or by wanton abuse of power.

Like the US invading Iraq you mean? Can you explain to the citizens of New Orleans precisely how and why this situation is different?

Looting is illegal, and dangerous, its the cracking of the veneer. It has to be stopped, by rounding up and arresting people that do it,

And equally important, by preventing nations and corporations from looting without constraint, and becoming role models that glorify and justify such behavior. Ie., see:

New Bridge Corporation
Iraq was ripped apart and divvied up faster in one summer than Latin America has been in 3 decades.


Can you explain why we arrest and incarcerate the little people, but not the rich and powerful? For doing exactly the same thing, but on a much larger scale?

No need to gun everyone down tho. Its martial LAW, not savage dictatorial rule.

And as such, the edge of the wedge. As planned. See:
post


.

[edit on 1-9-2005 by soficrow]

YOU LOOT ---- WE SHOOT

HAHAHAHA...I like it. Instead of the Hurricane Relief effort we should rename it the YOU LOOT---WE SHOOT effort.

Yes the National Guardsmen first priority is getting people to safety. The looters who robbed a gun store decided to make the transport helicopters practice targets. The looters are only creating a major Charlie Foxtrot. The way you get control of some hysteria is a good old fashioned ass whooping.

If these dumb looters were to do things right they would go get a boat since by the look of things there are thousands of them just waiting to be taken. Make, model and year? The choice of boats is endless. I would get a house boat and siphon gas from every car I saw. Then drive over to florida and start my life over. Hell you already got a place to stay with the house boat.

That or become a boat salesmen and market to Florida and Texas. These looters want to make some big bucks they must have big Ideas. Screw TV's and shoes. MAN THEY GOT BOATS!!!

cnn just reported that there are a couple high schools with severl hundred in each school trapped on the upper levels. they need food, medical care and need rescued. sorry but that type of stuff should be the proirity no the looters. all these guardsman are coming in and they are putting them on the street to stop the looters instead of rescuing these people. thats messed up

[ original post deleted due to lack of tact. Edit by self ]

Suffice it to say that rescue workers don't want to go into areas where "thousands" of refugees need help, since many seemed armed, and the offer of food and water is leading to fire fights.



[edit on 1-9-2005 by dr_strangecraft]

Personal insults will stop NOW any more will result in a warn

all these guardsman are coming in and they are putting them on the street to stop the looters instead of rescuing these people. thats messed up

That is what they were doing until some #$%##@$&$#*#*$$ looters decided to shoot at one of the helicopters that was transporting people out. Now the people in charge of the chopper won't let it back in until that crap is straightened out. WTF are they supposed to do...ignore it? Let them shoot down our birds. I think not.

If those people want help then they better get the looters under control. The looting is only causing people to get violent with each other and the officials. If I were a citizen down there I would get a group together of about 20-30 big and bad dudes who want to get out also and go beat the F@#$ out of who ever wants to mess with the rescue.

Originally posted by Timcouchfanclub
Yes the National Guardsmen first priority is getting people to safety.

But to "get people to safety" means first suppressing the fire from the armed gangs that are SHOOTING at rescue workers.

Secure yourself before assisting those who will rely on your help. It's obvious when you think about it.

oh brother, have we all lost the sense to reason?

do we know what's in the black woman's bag? if she came from a grocery store i can only imagine it's food for her and possibly others as are the white couple who have food. maybe they weren't as lucky to find as much food but they took food also.

why the double standard?

looting/finding food @ abandoned shops during a catastrophe = ok

looting for other goods and exploiting the situation = not ok

we should be more worried as to dissembling these bands of thieves that has seemed to form which are stalling recovery attempts from our guards.

[edit on 1-9-2005 by Conspicuouz]