Looting vs. Survival

I have been watching the developments of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and the breach in the levee of Lake Ponchatrain and I witnessed footage that shocked me. There is video of an arrest of a mother getting diapers and formula for her baby.

Now I understand looting is wrong but taking things for survival is a crime. Have some heart.

Imagine this....

You are a single mother that weathered out the storm with your 3 month old child. You have returned to your home only to find that is not there anymore. Your belongings, clothes and food are all gone. You are left with nothing. No home, no job, no money. You can't go to an ATM and go to the store to buy food because the bank is closed or demolished. The stores are closed and damaged. You and your baby are wet and hungry. There is no safe drinking water. The shelters are full and being evacuated so you can't go there. However at the corner store the boards have been ripped off the building. The glass is broken and you can see there is formula, bottled water, diapers, and food on the shelves untouched by the wind and rain of the storm.

Do you?...

A) Get the supplies you need to survive with your baby which are readily available to you.

B) Try to head to a shelter where supplies are low or non-existant.

C) Do nothing, starve, get sick, and let your baby live in the filth accumulating in their diaper.

I myself would do what it took to have my baby and I survive. The insurance companies are going to look at those products as a total loss anyway.

I totally agree that the people taking TVs, stereos, and Nike tennis shoes should be arrested and prosecuted but the mother trying to take care of herself and her baby should be left alone.

I've watched film footage of cops telling the people that he can't tell them what to do, but they need to do what they need to do to live.

Looks like there is common sense prevailing to a large extent, as far as that goes.
On the other hand, I've seen footage of looters taking more than just what they need to survive.

TV's/stereo's/anything not neccessity ...... lock 'em up and book 'em.

Diapers and baby milk ...... jeez, help the lady get it !!!!

This is where the difference between a Police Officer and a Pig come into play. This one was obviously, in my thoughts, a genuine Pig.

Oink oink SQUEEEEEL !!!

Misfit

The footage I saw was of an African American woman about 30 years old. She was wet and frightened. The police grabbed her, took her to the ground and knocked over the shopping cart she was pushing carrying diapers, formula, baby food jars, cans of soup, and boxes of crackers. They arrested her as she was screaming that she had to get back to her kids.

I haven't seen a repeat of the video so it has probably been taken out of the rotation of footage due to the public outcry it would cause.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

On the other hand, I've seen footage of looters taking more than just what they need to survive.

Yeah like the bucket of heiniken that one dude was strolling down the waters with??? When in crisis...drink

Martial law has been declared in New Orleans.
www.wben.com...

The footage I saw was before the declaration of martial law.

Same here.

Get what you need to survive. Make sure those kids are fed and diapered.

But you guys over there with the PS3, televisions, cigarettes, and booze, we have a date with the judge!

Try this: Anyone able bodied enough to lift a televsion gets to do community service starting the minute he/she is caught.




[edit on 31-8-2005 by garyo1954]

There're are definitely different levels of need here.

The point is, you can't necessarily regulate this situation with the law, because the law doesn't know what to do with shades of gray. It's guilty or not guilty.

My sense is that most crimes of this nature (mother stealing formula for baby) will never result in convictions. That's not to say a lot of people won't be inconvenienced, because they will, my point is that the end result will probably be a dismissal of charges.

That's small consolation to the mother of course, but we do live in a society of law. We don't live in a society where personal decisions about variables like need over-rule statutes put in place to maintain order.

Would I be stealing, if I was thrust into that situation? You bet. What would I steal? Food, water, clean and dry clothes, probably cigarettes (dog's gotta bark, fish gotta swim) and some booze to sterilize the gunshot wounds suffered during the process, a boat if I could, along with gasoline, depending on how bad it got I would steal scuba gear and firearms. Why would I steal? To survive. I'm opening myself to criticism here, I know that. I'm being honest, and that's a surefire way to get flamed, but I accept the consequences for my actions on ATS. I would like to think I can be a role model for the looters in that respect. Do what you need to do, hell, do whatever you WANT to do, but don't scream and cry and ask why when it's consequence time.

The people who get shot or arrested are suffering the backlash for their decisions. They should take responsibility for their actions.

It's not an enviable situation, and sometimes people just have to do what they have to do, regardless of the societal stigma against such action. For example, the father of a child molested by some pervert. Does he have the right to gun down the perp? No. Does he, to some extent, have the responsibility to do so? Yes.

It's these sorts of situations that prove eloquently the limits of law. It's not an appropriate solution to every societal problem, because, as I said earlier, the law lacks the flexibility to deal with those gray areas that are bound to be an issue.

It's shaping up to be a bad night. I hope people keep their wits about them until the worst is over. There will be plenty of time to clean up later, for right now, it's jungle mode all the way. Be fit, adapt, or die. I wish the looters Godspeed and good judgement, and I wish the cops the same. They're all just trying to survive, sometimes at the expense of others

Edit: SwearBear, it's my understanding that there is no provision for martial law in LA. It's not legally possible. The NG are assisting the local LEOs, but not ursurping them. As I said, that's my understanding.

[edit on 31-8-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Commonsense seems to elude many in law enforcement today. Let's hope the judge is smart enough to drop those inane charges against the mother.

It's all about survival now, if they can't get supplies in let the people salvage what is left.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Commonsense seems to elude many in law enforcement today. Let's hope the judge is smart enough to drop those inane charges against the mother.

In the meantime, as she sits in whatever holding cell wherever - her kids are alone (as she was yelling have to get back to them implies she's lone adult), terrified, maybe an older one goes to look, drowns, other kids are starving, drinking what they only know as "water" as it flows all about.

Ya, the judge may throw it out - but will she have kids to come home to?

Misfit

The commensense factor that eludes law enforcment will probably only get national attention from a few progressive radio talk hosts and most definitely Alex Jones. I will be watching his site closely.

Infowars

Alex takes the local news reports that would never make CNN and reports on them showing local atrocities and conspiracy.

Originally posted by Misfit

In the meantime, as she sits in whatever holding cell wherever - her kids are alone (as she was yelling have to get back to them implies she's lone adult), terrified, maybe an older one goes to look, drowns, other kids are starving, drinking what they only know as "water" as it flows all about.

Ya, the judge may throw it out - but will she have kids to come home to?

Misfit

Unfortunately that's how the system works and in New Orleans they also believe in Napoleonic law, which is that you are guilty until you prove you are innocent.

The system isn't fair in many aspects, as it protects the rich and abuses the poor.

www.la-legal.com...

By the book is not all it's cracked up to be without a conscience.

i'm all for the looters. but 'looter' is such a horrible word... i prefer the term 'opportunists'.

Originally posted by Misfit
In the meantime, as she sits in whatever holding cell wherever - her kids are alone (as she was yelling have to get back to them implies she's lone adult), terrified, maybe an older one goes to look, drowns, other kids are starving, drinking what they only know as "water" as it flows all about.

Ya, the judge may throw it out - but will she have kids to come home to?

Misfit

Good point. And just when will the court system be up and functional? Narleans has too many other things to worry about right now than hearing this petty little case.

Let her go and help her find her kids.

``

the episode you tell makes me wonder Why
didn't the 30ish woman, presumably with more than one dependent
youngsters and possibly children or toddlers,
use the same type of extreme measures- of logic & reasoning and
planning for her offspring or family
& elect to spend the storm evacuation in a govt shelter area for safety
and survival needs??

it seems she had nothing in preparation for a possible seige scenario,
no stockpiles of diapers or bottled water or canned foods, which would
have been a mandatory consideration (imho) before making a decision to ride out a storm
...and the most-assured cessation of services i.e. phone, elect, water...
which usually (95% of the time) happens for a day or even days or weeks
at a time, when hit by a huge hurricane

she made unwise decisions, it is not my or your or our responsibility
to give her a pass because she wants to scam the rest of us with
allegations of stranded & estranged children as a leverage technique.

if anybody else gets hurt from her ill-advised or self-serving predicument, then
that's just another ramification of her unwise, freely made, choices in life.

being a compassionate culture....i'm sure the authority will take into account all the mitigating circumstances...
~L~

The fact that she was taking diapers and pablum make me think that there is some truth to her "allegations of stranded & estranged children as a leverage technique." She was guilty of being in the city after being told to evacuate, but we don't know that whole story, either. Some people act holier than thou when assesing what her penalty should be. But what about a nation and an industry who put too many eggs in one basket instead of planning for disasters? The entire nation will now suffer because of too few refineries and approved drilling sites, as well as the lack of alternate energy sources. A $20 entry on the bottom line of a supermarket books doesn't matter when compared to that.

Now there are reports of mobs trying to break into hospitals, allegedly for drugs. The local Walgreens have already been looted. This, IMO, is actionable.

loot the wallmarts. i know i would be if i were there

I guess even i would loot for food if i had a pack of hungry kids...But Walmart?

Hello, electronics? Laptops? I think playing with Karma can be a very dangerous thing.

I have to saiy that if the life of my children depend on it I will do it too.

But reality and pictures point to the fact that most of the looters are not getting "Groceries" they are looting anything they can get their hands on.

Yesterday it was two police women, looting also, and that is the point you are going to have the desperate people mix with the opportunists.

Its starting to look like a riot and civil unrest that you only see in third world countries.

[edit on 31-8-2005 by marg6043]