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USA owes Canada 5+ Billion Dollars.

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posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 02:55 PM

The U.S. ambassador wants Canada to reconsider its decision to cancel talks aimed at settling the softwood lumber trade dispute.

"We want finality to it," Ambassador David Wilkins said in an interview from Toronto on Thursday.

"Unfortunately, Canada decided to discontinue those talks at least temporarily. We hope to have those renewed and we hope to continue to work on a negotiated settlement."


From China
Toronto Star: Use Cheney visit to push free trade

This is going to go on for a long long time......

posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 03:45 PM
I think the only way this will ever be resolved is if we completely change our whole Forestry system over to the way the US does it. And that's not going to happen. We've been having this dispute since I was in elementary school. I watched my town go down the tubes in the 80's over this.

It's the US's way or no way at all. If this were to actually be resolved in a decent manner that doesn't completely hose us, I would fall out of my chair in shock. I don't think I need to worry about that.

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 11:44 AM
It is a sad state of affiars, but couldn't we just tarrif the hell out of their products like in the days of old? How about an entire country wide Boycott American products? If it is done by the people, politic's shouldn't stand in the way and we are still able to make our own decisions right?

A cross country - Stand up for Canada campaign. If the US refuses to play fair, then we just refuse to play alltogether. I think that even if something like this got started it would light a fire under the buns of those that could resolve it. Heck what politician would want to be seen as going soft on the softwood lumber fiasco in the face of a public awareness campaign?

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:36 PM
Just a thought in jest...
OK so now the Yanks want to play nice - Fat chance of that.
I say make everything as difficult as possible for them - on EVERY issue - ALL the time - EVERY time.
Just say NO until they come to their collective Neocon senses and realize that they aren't the only game in town. Softwood - sell it to the Chinese, Oil - sell it to the highest non-US bidder, ZERO international co-operation on anything - recall McKenna (he's a Bush/Carlisle stooge anyway) - refuse their students access to our Universities - Close the Toronto US Embassy and reallocate it and its' com system to the Russkies - internal body search every Yank at every venue every time - fingerprint, Iris scan, DNA profile and investigate every Yank and then lose the paperwork and do it again, detain them in quarantine for weeks for "health" reasons, accidentally declare all US personel persona non-grata and deport them to a third country like China. Nationalize all their assets. Give the Russkies the DEW line. Create US to Canada no fly lists of about 300 million. And above all clear-out the CIA infestation up here. Block all US TV/media signals. Force dual citizens to delcare allegiance - with us or agin' us. Get the drift? Play like they do only be more ruthless and efficient - we're actually quite adept at that. Hit them where it hurts and when they're down tell them to get what they need from they're coalition "friends".

Actually I quite like America and Americans (I even employ a couple from time to time) - just not the current regime.

'America you listenin'? Or do you only hear yourselves? Yeah thought so.

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 05:14 PM
If I had any points I would send it to you Highground, great post....

Sometimes the REAL truth hurts, unfortunattly as you stated it's falling on deaf ears down South..
I feel it will continue until at least 2008

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 05:31 PM

Originally posted by like2learn
I feel it will continue until at least 2008

Could be 2006, elections then could strip the Neocons of some power in Congress and the Senate.

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 05:37 PM
The only problem waiting for the Dems to get office down South is they may actually be more protectionist. As much as I am not a big fan of the Bush admin, I think Kerry would have been a lot harder on Canada economically.

An example of this would be the Byrd Amendment which I mentioned earlier. That was brought in by the Democrats.

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 05:54 PM
I don't believe that the party in power makes that much of a difference really. Dems would be easier to deal with sure, particularly Mrs. Clinton and hopefully Governor Richardson in '08 (bonus: Richardson wants the UFO truth too) but it is the one-sidedness of the relationship - it's like living next door to a great big angry guy with a substance abuse and psychiatric difficulties - unless you move his problems leak all over the 'hood - and if he asks for a favour what do you do? Any participation is guaranteed risky.
I remember when America was a "good thing"... sad, so very many dead innocents and each death has a family with a memory and potential vengeance.
Still glad I live in Canuckistan even if Irwin Cotler will be able to legally listen to my phone and parse my data stream WITHOUT any security certificate or judicial scrutiny... news hit yesterday - can a Canadian police state be far behind?

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 06:29 PM

Originally posted by highgroundsys0p

Still glad I live in Canuckistan even if Irwin Cotler will be able to legally listen to my phone and parse my data stream WITHOUT any security certificate or judicial scrutiny... news hit yesterday - can a Canadian police state be far behind?

I hear ya loud and clear...I was going to submit the story into current events...but thought better of it for some reason. Here's the link...

I'll never be anything but a Canuck as matter where the future takes us. I just love the north...spent time in the territories and will always love that harsh place.

For fun, I browse the tundra on sat google maps (lol)

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 07:08 PM
For more fun goog' Downsview CFB - decommissioned my foot - look in the SE corner - odd config of buildings... magnetic freak zone - then look at the big hangar for a black circle... Ever hear of Area 51 paintball?... they're just up the way... beside The Da Vinci Project - twin orientals who don't talk ever and have different colour skin... or the big Brit or the Big Afrikaaner with the weapons grade physiques who greet you by saying, "Your not a member - leave"... also large amounts of Monster copper wire is going in there (the big stuff 500Kv) - way bigger than the subway would ever require - the unmarked transports with yankee plates drop the trailers and the next day the huge spools are magically gone. Learjets (Kalitta and Janet reg numbers) by the dozen. Also check where the subway "ends" and the railyard "termination point" - we were playin' frisbee on one of the fields and all our watches stopped - 5 batteries died simultaneously... all our feet started tingling like one of those cheap hotel vibra-beds too (not anywhere near the subway), my right foot went to sleep. The piece de resistance is the vent system - it is huge - one of my truck driver homeys is gonna get ground level pics I'll post. Oh yeah on the north side across Sheppard Ave is a "white" wolf in sheeps clothing research facility that goes way deep... our UPS guy says at least 5 levels - I can not confirm that - but the place is wrapped up with US medical research contracts - ever hear of the "Stinger" G suit - 9 G's baby - do a goog' you'll see. They also do extreme cold physiology (human and animal) research but I can't find out what - yet. This CFB is the busiest decommissioned base on the planet - big mojo voodoo. Me and some of the brothers and sisters are workin' on this - if there's dirt we'll shovel it out full spectrum in the next 6 - 12 months (gotta play by the deep cover rules since Herr Cotler and the "Little Knesset" now have free reign on the data stream).
Ciao... pace... throttle up... keep your stick on the ice and have fun!

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 07:12 PM
highgroundsys0p, i know of the places you speak of and just be carefull. You don't want to be found floating face down in the Don or Humber.

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 07:35 PM
Big 10-4 good buddy - the brothers and sistas run silent and deep - 2048 bit crypto on "white" data - head to head - "6 degrees" - on "dark" matters - my hide is old and tired and I have - "folks" with "drop dead" instructions.

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 07:43 PM
Thanks for the info...I googled DownsviewAFB right away. For a bit of fun for yourself, google the southern shore of Great Slave Lake and have a look at the HUGE development there.
I'm fairly certain it's the diamond mines...but it is large. Yellowknife and YXD look absolutely miniscule by comparison.

...just to keep this on the threads' topic, I don't think many understand the vast developments that are happening here on Canadian soil. That 5 Billion the Americans owe us is chump change in comparison to what's happening...but, imo, Canadians usually are fairly quiet about such things.

I love Google sat maps!!!

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 08:19 PM
I hit and entered "Great Slave Lake" and got nada - thing jus' pointed at the centre of the states. Maybe I'm doin' something wrong... added both Alberta and NWT as wildcards... still no joy. I'll beat on it sum more l8tr. Thanx tho' eh.

Yes there's a whole lot of vast development goin' on - some good - some, not so much. 5B, yes "small apples"... heck we spill that much makin' mornin' coffee LOL.
We are far more than the back bacon and hockey perception held by those below us.

But we do need to find a leader with "grunt" to go "upside' " with our "friends" below the 49th and actually work out some stuff that can not be wriggled out of by the slicksters of spin. I mean we're worth it, right?

Yes, a great many of us are reserved and mean exactly what we say... 'sort of proud of that. They do seem to under estimate everyone - 'cept themselves of course...

Yeah I'm big on orbital assets too... more than a hobby here... since '94.

One of the companies I contract my software to is let's say "hooked-up" with Radarsat and Landsat - I'm workin' a deal - to "get". If it pans out I'll figure out a way to let "the brothers and sisters of the north" have a secured look see. I'll keep you in mind.

Ever notice how many Canucks are on ATS?

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 09:23 PM
We do tend to be pretty reserved and that may be why we get taken for granted or just plain forgotten about most of the time. What we need to do is find alternate trading partners who we can have a mutually beneficial, respectful trading partnership with. Expand our customer base. Reducing our dependence on American money should be an absolute priority for our government. We should still trade with them; but we need to direct serious efforts towards finding new markets for our products.

I'm liking China for that role and the feeling is mutual. They want that oil, enough to pay for the technology. While it is true that we can't cut back on our oil shipments to the US, nowhere is it written that we must give them more. Not that I advocate cutting the US off completely; I just don't see that as realistic and Ralph Klein would have a heart attack. Oh wait, maybe I do need to reconsider that option…
Maybe we could just put them on COD until the balance is paid off, including the outstanding energy bills?

We do have a pretty good population of Canucks on here, it's always nice to have a thread where we all get together.

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 10:17 PM
I know we could never go "cold turkey" on the states and I wouldn't really favour that action... the earlier post was in jest to see if any "sub 49ers" wanted to open a dialogue... no takers - yet - but I remain hopeful.

Yeah diversification of markets - "Yeah, yeah that's the ticket". Our export markets are "wearing blinders" - Never was a big fan of "the little guy from Shawinigan" but he did bring in biz with his trade missions and he did keep us outta Iraq.

How can Ralph Klein function? He seems "loaded" a lot recently. I don't dislike him or like him, but at times I feel a little embarassed for him. Hope he dosn't negotiate too much - he may miss something - like Cheney's machinations and designs on Syncrude.

When it comes to natural resources taken in toto - we are the Phat Daddy Mac of this planet - I (my company) writes resource risk analysis software for insurance consortiums - the mathematics boys who use the software suite and actually understand what it means - say Canada's number one bar none; we have enough of every resource 'cept two things - people with the "Vision-thing" and the capital to exploit our unique position.

Now ain't that Canadian - a full tank with no one to drive and no money to buy tires. LOL.

posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 10:17 AM
Ralph Klein is permanently pickled.
He's lucky that he was elected in Alberta; with their resources it would be pretty hard to screw things up. He caused a lot of problems for my province when he was first elected by cutting the welfare rates in the province. It had the same effect of buying the people on welfare bus tickets to BC. :shk: Thanks for offloading your problems to my tax dollars, buddy.
I hope someone is keeping a close eye on him for Cheney's visit.

Wasn't a huge Chretien fan either, but the man had some style and personality. And I think the trade missions were a great idea and hope they continue. That's the kind of thing I don't mind my money being spent on. That's if they don't take 50 of their closest friends with them.

We do need to be more aggressive with our foreign trade policy because, as you so eloquently put it, we are the Phat Daddy Mac in terms of resources. Canada has always had a resource-based economy and we should be taking advantage of it. In the most eviromentally friendly manner possible, of course. Nobody needs enviromental groups calling for boycotts.

Originally posted by highgroundsys0p
Now ain't that Canadian - a full tank with no one to drive and no money to buy tires. LOL.

That's because we sold the tires for beer money now that hockey is back.

As for the South of the 49er's. I take it as a positive that we haven't seen to many of them in this thread. To me this means that many of them recognize that this is unfair trading practices and indefensible. Of course I'm wrong a lot of the time, so it could be a totally different reason. Aside of saying 'Yeah we're screwing you, thanks for the money' what else is there to say?

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Duzey]

posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 10:38 AM
I did receive a reply from the PM Office. They are doing something and want every nickel owed. There was also a write-up in the Niagara Falls review about some details of action steps to be considered by the Canadian Gov, including sanctions without clear progress (payment).


posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 10:52 AM
I'm glad to hear they are taking a firm stance on this. Thanks for letting us know, Dallas.

I figured sanctions would be the logical route. This is starting to get very interesting. Between the current sanctions in place and the new ones that will likely be imposed, Canada is starting to take a harder line with the US.

Governments all over the planet are watching this with great interest. If the US's close friend, neighbour and number one trading partner gets completely screwed over, it will affect their credibility. How can tiny little countries in the Middle East or Africa feel they can trust them to keep the promises they have made if they do this to one of their 'best friends'?

I'm off to go and see if I can find that article you mentioned.

posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 11:23 AM
does freetrade exist in north america i dont see it.the lumber trade problem came out of the need for job its a monster of i dont want to follow the rules to major trade disputes and wasted legal battles.freetrade is a world full of problems.most would agree we have lost more jobs then we are at the cross roads of the u.s not paying it bills then freetrade is invaild.if the very rules that keep it together do not apply the whole thing is a wash.canada will stop agreements leave the table slap tarrifs on the u.s.the dollar in canada will rise to the point that going across the border shopping will be useless.we have lived in that world before and both countries have made a go of it.with better wages and more jobs.if u.s does not pay its bills canada can charge interest on top of it everyday until its paid off.everyknows what happens when a country refuses to pay there debts.they lose market and credit value.then they go into a spiral of depression.canada needs to be more valued then just ignored and made to feel she is an unwanted top it off poor leadership makes this problem get worse.

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