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USA owes Canada 5+ Billion Dollars.

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posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 09:28 PM
I'm not overly familiar with the realty market in the US but these levies have a lot to do with the high costs of new construction in the States.

Even with the levies our timber is cheaper. The dispute has caused the Canadian industry to be more efficient and productive in order to survive. As a result, Canadian timber is still used heavily, and the sanctions (around 25%) just get added into the cost of your new home.

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 09:32 PM
Here's the front door email for Herr Martin...
They don't even have an auto-response email... I wonder why?
I've written every MP in the Liberal Party at one time or another... Two actually answered (Dennis Mills who let me know that the SARS Stones' concert was worth the 10 million just before he was defeated and The Minister of Public Works who actually mailed me a letter with a hand written note in regard to Adscam/Gomery)...
assuring me the truth would be known LOL.
Anyway were gonna get "done" by those below the 49th wether it's water, oil, wood, livestock, airspace etc. Just remember this is Dick Cheney's world - we just live here.

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 09:34 PM
Suppose I have been fortunate in past as I have received responses from the Feds. Never directly from the PM but one one of his 'special' assistants.
And I will post it, whatever it says.


posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Duzey
I don't think we'll see our $5 billion anytime soon.

A few months ago, Canada and the UK levied sanctions on some US products in retaliation for other trade agreement issues. Specifically the Byrd Amendment, which allows the US govt to pay out the levies collected on items such as timber, steel and beef to the companies who initiated the complaints. I've read we are considering more sanctions, if we can get WTO approval (which shouldn't be very hard).

The US government hasn't given out this $5 billion timber money yet but they are going to begin within the next year, I expect.

It's obvious why Canadians are upset about this but for any Americans reading this thread, here is why you should be upset too. Before the Byrd Amendment was enacted this money went into your pockets, via the Customs Bureau. Now it is given to big business instead.

Now, if this money is paid back (yeah right, I know it's not gonna happen anytime soon) that money has to come from somewhere, and I'm pretty sure the timber companies aren't going to give it back.

[edit on 15-8-2005 by Duzey]

Very well done post. Learned acouple of things from this one !!


posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 09:43 PM
Every Canadian citizen should write to Adrianne Clarkson before shes outta here. She wasted the most money I have ever seen.

Pointless trips etc.

I havnt had much luck in writing to government officials, but I have recieved replies from provincial government.

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 09:48 PM
*blush* Gee, thanks Dallas. I try to be informative on occasion.

The Byrd Amendment encourages US companies to lodge complaints for the big payout. Not only do they receive market protection but they then collect the money paid in levies. Double-dipping perhaps?

The best part of this is several major forestry companies in Canada are US owned and they are not happy about this at all. It's almost like a wealth redistribution program.

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 10:14 PM
Unfortunately even if the US does pay up, the cheque will end up going through Canada Post so it will be quite a while before we see the money even after it's been "paid"

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Dulcimer

Originally posted by sardion2000

Really? You realize how much money Toronto pumps into the coffers versus how much we actually get back in services? Our Public Transit absolutely sucks. Roads are perpetually under repairs in some places.

[edit on 15-8-2005 by sardion2000]

Take a drive through Saskatchewan. We have some great roads.
We also have great subway systems!

Funny article:

That's brutal, to think that all that money we pay to the feds is supposed to go towards the needs of provinces like Sask. But noo [snivling voice]we got to pay down our debt.[/sv] My point exactly no one is getting a fair deal(except maybe the rich in Alberta who actually live in Rosedale(very rich hood in Toronto) and the Bankers who issued the debt in the first place)

Frankely I don't know what will kickstart your provinces economy but I know the Current situation is not working as intended. (or maybe it is....)

The East Coast got the worst end of the stick by far though IMHO. Maybe it will become better over there but I'm not holding my breath.

I know we Torontonians Bitch allot and the rest of the Country hates us for it, but we ARE the center of the Canadian economy and in theory should be primed instead of semi-neglected as it currently is(all while the Politician milk us for all we're worth, I hope Alberta loves it's new role as Cash Cow

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 10:57 PM
Dulcimer and I talked about this a little bit before but basically with all the resources Saskatchewan has, they should get to be the new cash cow!

He got me curious one night and I looked it up. They have uranium, silver, diamonds, oil, potash, gold, natural gas, coal and the list goes on and on.

They truly have a crappy provincial government. :shk:

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 10:59 PM
Dunno about Torontonians bitching alot?, Being from that City I felt I made a good living there and worked my but off for it.
Once in Southern-southern Ontario, i now feel and have for a few years, a lot of people work extremely hard here and are satisfied just working hard and taking home an average cheque.

Toronto is a place where you don't come to a meeting without new ideas, eg "better-faster-cheaper". where your Boss isn't just your Boss but someone who demands your input and ideas.

Hell, I'm not sure why I say all this - perhap's a little frustration.


posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 11:13 PM
She had us "kicked" off our local airport (Muskoka). Her entourage didn't like our ultralights? She's an old-school media-princess - attach a softwood chipper-shredder to your wallets Johnny Canuck and pay for the three hardened-limos and the Challenger jet.
Maybe AC could pay the Yanks tab? LOL... they're loaded with many gov't pensions. If she and her partner would leave this land and never come back that'd be worth the 5B to me. Our new GG is also a media-princess, of Haitian decent and rumoured PQ Separatist affliations. Her man apparently hangs with the FLQ crew. She was a pretty decent journalist-presenter tho'. Hmm second CBC'er in a row... Hmmm.
I suspect that like the 5B for the softwood legal-glacier there won't be didley we can do other than document the history and be the best Canadians we can be huh?
I think Canada could do with opening up a fresh can of nationalism washed down with a civic responsibilty wobbly-pop and show a little spine and not just in Kandahar and wherever JTF2 is this week - Get in the politician's faces any way you can... they do read email.

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 11:19 PM
Yeah I know we are a very competitive economy, frankely we would probably be more competetive without NAFTA. Torontonians complain about allot of stuff, mostly having to do with the 401, the TTC and the Leafs
I dunno why I said that frankely I prolly meant something else kinda late now.

I'm as frustrated with the Status-Quo as all the other Canadians who chimed in on this thread, I just hope something changes but I'm not counting on it. Life will go on wether we like it or not.

highgroundsys0p, trust me I email a policians once a month. Mostly to Jack Layton but sometimes I target higher and lower officials. Jacks a bit pompous though, so I doubt I'll be getting any replies from him and havn't so far.

Oh yeah highgroundsys0p welcome to ATS btw

[edit on 15-8-2005 by sardion2000]

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 11:36 PM
Do you think the upcoming election will have a softwood "general resources" angle? I'd like to see someone with a chance to form a government that'd be a little more assertive internationally (old-school blue beret stuff) than current.
Sometimes I feel that we have let the world down by letting ourselves down. If we can't stand up to the Yanks ala Pearson-Johnson who can?
BTW: I meant no ill will when I suggested that folks should "get up on the wheel" a little more with our politicos. As you can tell I am wholly unimpressed with the current lot - regardless of party. They operate with relative impunity.
Should Canada nationalize a percentage of our known resources?
Any thoughts?

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 11:49 PM

Originally posted by highgroundsys0p
Do you think the upcoming election will have a softwood "general resources" angle?

I have no idea, most likely no. It will be something stupid and pointless like "Sponsorship" BS...

I'd like to see someone with a chance to form a government that'd be a little more assertive internationally

We need another Treduex, leaders like that just aren't allowed to become leaders anymore, they are too dangerous to the Status-quo.

If we can't stand up to the Yanks ala Pearson-Johnson who can?

He scares me more then Bush and BinLaden put together, he is trying to bring back the glory days and if he fails and power vacuum could happen and god knows who will take power. I just heard the other week that the Neo-Nazi party was scoring higher in the polls then the Communist party. Scary prospect...

BTW: I meant no ill will when I suggested that folks should "get up on the wheel" a little more with our politicos.

I agree that we should start driving our politicians, it's what they are their for :p

As you can tell I am wholly unimpressed with the current lot - regardless of party. They operate with relative impunity.

Look into the Green party, they are uncorrupted mostly because they don't now know the how power corrupts absolutely.

Should Canada nationalize a percentage of our known resources?

And go the rout of Venezuela? No thank you. Canada has always had a history of vigorous small/medium private enterprises. We should make it more difficult for the multinationals to get their hands in it and give first dibs on domestic companies. Keep the money in the family IMHO. Put Tarrifs on anything leaving or entering the country as well. It will raise prices but it will make us more competitive in the long term. Short term may be a rough ride though.

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 11:58 PM
'Sounds reasonable to me. Do you think we should have some sort of strategic-reserve levels for our resources? Or just regulate it to keep out the entrenched globalcorps? Are there domestic Canadian companies big enough to pull this off? I happen to like private ownership for most stuff but we need something like Trudeau's NEP from the 70's to get a firm hold on all our resources... they aren't all that renewable in a Dick Cheney world?
What say anyone?

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:38 AM

Originally posted by sardion2000

We need another Treduex, leaders like that just aren't allowed to become leaders anymore, they are too dangerous to the Status-quo.

I wasnt around in the times of pierre trudeau but I do know that he didnt exactlly like the farmers ( my family business is in agriculture )

and didnt he give the finger to a bunch of western protesters?

He was either loved or hated.

He drove around in sports cars and lived a lavish life. Hell he was a political prophet.

I really dont know who could clean up this mess of a country, but its sure not any of the players in the game now.

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:47 AM
I wasn't a big Trudeau fan, but the man took no nosense from the south at all. As for farmers, well I cannot recall a problem though as stuborn as he was it's possible he make not have been in favor.

He also seriously upset the Queen. He was there and after waiting, the Queen apparently came into to the reception room aknowledged PM Trudeau and said I'll leave for amoment and left the room - not to return.

But I still feel very confident he was a strong and loyal Canadian. I also believe Mr Trudeau wanted Canada's total independance from all Countries. Without any submission to other Countries pressures.


posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:57 AM
10-4, Trudeau was exceedingly unfair to most Canadians in one way or another. He did however create a national energy plan NEP in the 70's (which became Petro-Canada). Hmmm... who has a NEP now? Who chaired and handled a secret executive NEP report for 43? Uh, that'd be Dick Cheney. Guess whoo's visiting Alberta this September?
Guess who was just at the Priemers meeting?
Ambassador Wilden...
Freakin' unprecedented in my 46 years.
How would Canadians feel if there were a law that a strategic amount of our resources were held as inalienably Canadian in perpetuity?
How would Dick Cheney like such a law?
I think Dick Cheney may be coming to "clean up the mess" mentioned earlier?
The game is afoot.

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:01 AM
Interesting. Putting PM Trudeau aside for a moment, perhap's our Oil is part of the NATO commitment to our US partners for their supreme fire power?


posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:10 AM
'sounds about right... sort of an ante or tithe maybe? The Lockeed-Martin Canadian census for this fall ought give Mssers. Cheney et al. all the "softwood" info they'll ever need for bargaining for "Manhattan" LOL.
Yeah were toast unless our "commitment" as mentioned earlier is integral to the foriegn/domestic policy - resources make it go. I for one am scared for our future... but not without hope.
Maybe they'll cut us a sweet deal? Who knows?
But I am sure this strategic-resources issue is on manny minds below the 49th. Whaddya think are we toast? Did they already pull the trigger at the Premiers meeting?

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