Crusading americans and their "holy war"

are American Muslims American or Muslim? it seems that some people think you can't be both and still be loyal to your home country this is what ordinary citizens cannot understand about Islam, the moderate Muslims should break away from the stranglehold of this world Muslim brotherhood thing and stick by there home country of choice

[edit on 7-8-2005 by avro]

Originally posted by BLUBBER
There are a BILLION+Catholics on this planet as well, so who cares about your stats ? If Islamics keep calling for Jihads and killing woman and children, the world will react accordingly. Flying planes into buildings or slicing off heads on TV is not helping that supposed peaceful religion.

And I'm sure you can see that those very, very few cases are obviously not indicative of the majority of Muslims.

Just as those few abortion-clinic bombings are not representative of Christians in general.

It seems pretty illogical to blame the many for the acts of the few, surely?

What a lame excuse. You are not even worth debating. As if America has to account for all of it's evils while you sit back and praise Osama. Were thos abortion clinics full of woman from Iraq ? Did I bring up thos abortion attack's or did you ? You did. Now that you are done with it, bring up the 3000 dead people Osama killed.

Originally posted by BLUBBER
What a lame excuse. You are not even worth debating. As if America has to account for all of it's evils while you sit back and praise Osama.

Oh, I'm sorry - where exactly did I praise Osama?

Can you actually discuss this without resorting to insults?

You're absolutely right - America DOES have to account for all it's evils. Just as every nation has to account for it's atrocities. Every nation.

It's tragic that you can't see that.

I'm affraid your mistaken. There is over 100 names for god in islam.

here is a few.

The most gracious.
The most merciful.
The creator.
The al mighty.

Ofcource these would be said in arabic in refrence to god. God has many names, and "allah" not a name, it's just the translation of the word god in arabic.

ok? Don't let the media play tricks on you. Your talking to a muslim here, perhaps you should trust my knoweledge of islam over the knoweledge you got from watching 60 minutes.

The first bible was in Hebrew and God is NOT "allah" in hebrew!

I never claimed that it was, i belive the word for god in hebrew is Alloheem is it not, or was that aramaic? But that's besides the point. All i was trying to demonstrate to you is that the Arabic bible (which was translated from hebrew) existed long before the English bible. And in the arabic bible, the word for god is allah.

- The muslims, the Christians and the Jews, worship the same god.


[edit on 7-8-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

- The muslims, the Christians and the Jews, worship the same god.

OK very quickly here, Christians worship a Tri-une God, The Father, the Son, The Holy Spirit, All three are the same but differ in 'methods'. They are the same yet have distinct differences.

Islam denies the Christ, and therefore from a Christian perspective, deny God. Islam says that Christianity worships 3 Gods and yet they miss that we do not, we worship one God, and one that Islam does not.

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

- The muslims, the Christians and the Jews, worship the same god.

OK very quickly here, Christians worship a Tri-une God, The Father, the Son, The Holy Spirit, All three are the same but differ in 'methods'. They are the same yet have distinct differences.

Islam denies the Christ, and therefore from a Christian perspective, deny God. Islam says that Christianity worships 3 Gods and yet they miss that we do not, we worship one God, and one that Islam does not.

I would disagree with this entirely. The trinity is an aspect, AFAIK, of the supreme being. It is part of the esoteric nature to make it easier for the comman man to understand. There can be no division in the ALL, for it is the ALL.

Once again, AFAIK< Islam didn't reject Jesus - in fact the honour him as a prophet of God - just not the son of God which he never claimed to be - only the son of man.

Muslim's, Christian's, Jewish, etc are all brothers - in fact all mankind are. If only we would allow ourself's to see it.

Did not someone post earlier that Spain was considered at one time Muslm/Islamic territory?? I havent heard that one before.

I am however curious as to how..if Spain were Muslim/Islamic territory what were the Muslims doing clear up into France where they were stopped by Charles Martel at Tours in 732 AD??? By the way ..this is about 300 years before the crusades???

Dont misunderstand me...I dont agree with what passes for the traditional Crusades recorded in most history books ..I am just trying to understand the method of "victimization" in using or misusing the word Crusade. Someone was on the move long before the traditional "Crusades" even happened yet this history is hardly spoken of by people on these blogs. It becomes like a default setting .. a free pass to play through.
What amazes me even more is that so many "Christians" are ignorant of these events.
When did the Muslims get authorization for their own Crusade and why doesnt history record it thusly???? Who has such a investment in the ignorance of people in the West..and many are ignorant of almost everything including Islam and Christianity.

"May the Sword of Islam rest upon the neck of the Infidel"

A religion of peace.

Too many here asleep at the wheel.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Did not someone post earlier that Spain was considered at one time Muslm/Islamic territory?? I havent heard that one before.

I am however curious as to how..if Spain were Muslim/Islamic territory what were the Muslims doing clear up into France where they were stopped by Charles Martel at Tours in 732 AD??? By the way ..this is about 300 years before the crusades???

Dont misunderstand me...I dont agree with what passes for the traditional Crusades recorded in most history books ..I am just trying to understand the method of "victimization" in using or misusing the word Crusade. Someone was on the move long before the traditional "Crusades" even happened yet this history is hardly spoken of by people on these blogs. It becomes like a default setting .. a free pass to play through.
What amazes me even more is that so many "Christians" are ignorant of these events.
When did the Muslims get authorization for their own Crusade and why doesnt history record it thusly???? Who has such a investment in the ignorance of people in the West..and many are ignorant of almost everything including Islam and Christianity.

"May the Sword of Islam rest upon the neck of the Infidel"

A religion of peace.

Too many here asleep at the wheel.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Perhaps the word "Infidel" is exactly whats being taken out of context. If any one
religion or country is assumed to be the "Infidel" then the whole Ideology of Islam
is negated. I think perhaps, that, like the name "Devil, Satan, Antichrist" is often
misinterpreted by Christian fanatics as other than the figurative meaning, likewise is the infidel.
If "Infidel" is referring to ANYONE with no religious beliefs of any kind, then this certainly
does NOT refer to Christians, but athiests or non believers in a higher power.

The dictionary meaning of infidel:

in·fi·del ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nf-dl, -dl)
n.
An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam.
One who has no religious beliefs.
One who doubts or rejects a particular doctrine, system, or principle.

alphabetaone,

Did you go to public school. I did...but I got over it.
Infidel to a muslim are those who dont follow Islam...particularly Christians and Jews. Get a clue..why do you think they so like the word
"Crusade"???
This word falls in line with Islam ..in identifying them as Christians which are in particular ...Indifels. Crusade..and Christian justifys their position ..."victimization and martyrdom." both...for the faithful.
Some of you need to catch on and wise up.

Thanks ,
Orangetom

now I understand the militant islamic muslims rage. Its penis envy.

www.michnews.com...
No. It is their horrendous value system caused by a seriously flawed psychological belief, uncovered by Freud and Jung. The Islamic world is a society dominated by "shame." Pride is an overwhelming value, where an obsession on dishonor means tremendous weakness. This is the underlying reason why America and Israel are hated with such passion. The incredible successes of our religious societies coupled with overwhelming military power gives "Muslim penis envy" a new meaning.

So maybe if we all just assure them they are adequate, we can all get along ?

Originally posted by orangetom1999
alphabetaone,

Did you go to public school. I did...but I got over it.
Infidel to a muslim are those who dont follow Islam...particularly Christians and Jews. Get a clue..why do you think they so like the word
"Crusade"???
This word falls in line with Islam ..in identifying them as Christians which are in particular ...Indifels. Crusade..and Christian justifys their position ..."victimization and martyrdom." both...for the faithful.
Some of you need to catch on and wise up.

Thanks ,
Orangetom

Catch on?? Wise up?? Seems to me that its blatently obvious that your public school
mentality is shining through as clearly as ever with your one-sided view of seemingly ANY particular meaning.
Are you Islamic? If not please dont assume that you can dictate the meaning of anything
with respect to their belief. Also, if you're not, then you hardly qualify in any manner
at all as knowledgeable on the subject. Thanks for your input though Orangetom and try
and stick with subjects you may actually have some cognizance of.

It would take years, or a poor Russian scientist, for terrorists to build a nuclear bomb, big or small. This country in turn SHOULD NOT be worrying about the terrorists over in the Middle East, we should be worried of the terroirists that are already here and in ALL 50 states. This is because the sleeper cells here, foriegn and home-grown, should be the ones that we need to worry about. Oh and by the way, not all muslims are terrorists like Bush wants us to think.

[edit on 08/07/2005 by gimmefootball400]

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
I'm affraid your mistaken. There is over 100 names for god in islam.

here is a few.

The most gracious.
The most merciful.
The creator.
The al mighty.

Ofcource these would be said in arabic in refrence to god. God has many names, and "allah" not a name, it's just the translation of the word god in arabic.

ok? Don't let the media play tricks on you. Your talking to a muslim here, perhaps you should trust my knoweledge of islam over the knoweledge you got from watching 60 minutes.

The first bible was in Hebrew and God is NOT "allah" in hebrew!

I never claimed that it was, i belive the word for god in hebrew is Alloheem is it not, or was that aramaic? But that's besides the point. All i was trying to demonstrate to you is that the Arabic bible (which was translated from hebrew) existed long before the English bible. And in the arabic bible, the word for god is allah.

- The muslims, the Christians and the Jews, worship the same god.


[edit on 7-8-2005 by Syrian Sister]

The "hundred names" like the rest of islam is simply a rip off of judaism and christianity.

Almighty - appears in new testament
Lord of Hosts- Old & new
Elohim, yahweh, - torah

islam is just a combination of arabic paganism and some aspects from judaism and christianity.


The english bible, if your refering to the KJV(King james Version) was translated from Greek and Latin, which existed centuries before islam even existed much less and arabic bible, BTW syrian has just admitted that the arab bible is a rip off of the torah.

Originally posted by Humster
I'm not sure if you have notice, but "the other side" also have people like those you posted?

Maybe you should also add those people in too. Since, they, are also wrong.

We could start mending the bridges with what both sides have in common:

Ignorance.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

islam is just a combination of arabic paganism and some aspects from judaism and christianity.

Christianity is just a combination of of judaism and some aspects of paganism.

Judaism is just a combination of arabic paganism and some persian paganism, and egyptian paganism transformed into a monotheistic belief.

Oh, and before the bible thumping starts:

I have this question concerning Jewish beliefs.
There is only one God. And, yet the first commandment states (old scrolls, numerous sources):
"I am a jealous God, and thou shall not worship any God before me."

So, If God acknowledges that other Gods exist and that God is jealous. ....

Can God be jealous of what doesn't exist?

[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by orangetom1999
alphabetaone,

Did you go to public school. I did...but I got over it.
Infidel to a muslim are those who dont follow Islam...particularly Christians and Jews. Get a clue..why do you think they so like the word
"Crusade"???
This word falls in line with Islam ..in identifying them as Christians which are in particular ...Indifels. Crusade..and Christian justifys their position ..."victimization and martyrdom." both...for the faithful.
Some of you need to catch on and wise up.

Thanks ,
Orangetom

from wikipedia:

Like pilgrims, each crusader swore a vow (a votus), to be fulfilled on successfully reaching Jerusalem, and they were granted a cloth cross (crux) to be sewn into their clothes.

This "taking of the cross", the crux, eventually became associated with the entire journey; the word "crusade" (coming into English from the French croisade, the Italian crociata, or the Portuguese cruzada) developed from this.

who's educated?

the "Crusades" are what we called them after the fact. a crusade is meant today to mean "campaign, bearing a cross, etc.

does not mean martyrdom, but can lead to that. is not a Muslim or Islamic notion, but i can see how the misuse of the concept by radical extremist Muslims can lead some to believe that if they don't know where the word came from. martyrdom is a huge part of christianity as well as other sects, cults and religions, the differences of which, i can't define. nevertheless, martyrdom is a human trait. people sacrifice for many things, sometimes it is their life they give, other times it is something else dear to them, but they give it in defense of someone or something they believe in and they sacrifice willingly and knowing of their risk. people who have no god do this as well as those that do.

now, back to the American Crusade-thing:

you gotta be kidding me. some jack-ass in congress names a city to nuke if we get hit badly and the whole world is up in arms about it. not gonna happen, get your panties out of a wad about it.

America is not on a Crusade. America is correcting some mistakes made by others in the management of their regions. America is the head office coming down to the local level to fix the shop. Iraq needed to fire it's manager and get renovated. this, will, hopefully, spark the whole neighborhood to start restoring their houses and stores, start fixing their infrustructures and managing their businesses better, catching shoplifters, deadbeat employees, weeding out the criminals in the neighborhood, etc.

Lebanon is slowly, but surely working on it, Iran WAS working on it, now they are working in the opposite direction, Saudi Arabia is beginning to work on it, Syria needs to start working on it. Israel and Palestine have been working on it for 60 years, but with idiot managers at the helm, the business will continue to lose shareholders and profits and will eventually go bankrupt.

ok, now to those of you speaking to the originallity of either 3 of these religions: judaism, christianity and islam? here's my bit on that.

they are all based on the first known monotheistic religion, in fact, down to the creation myths in each- all based on the Gilgamesh- and all 3 religions based on Zoroastranism/Zarathustranism. Christianity contains some Hindu or Buddhism as well as paganism, but the paganism in all 3 comes more from practice than it turning up in the written word. people just never forgot the first thing they were taught, which was about their immediate surroundings, the Earth, paganism, and so, that got passed down to each generation, in fact, some are so hard to trace, historians haven't been able to yet. some are easier though, like the Christmas tree, which is actually expressly forbidden in the bible.

i went to public schools.

[edit on 10-8-2005 by fledgling666]

Alphabetaone,
I dont have to be Islamic to know certain things about them. I can recall events going back long before 9/11. The worst and most insulting in those days being the killing of Leon Klinghoffer on the Achille Lauro ocean liner. This was a guy in a wheel chair. As I recall for the first time a sitting president made a attempt to get them and they were intercepted and forced down in a base in Italy. Ironically they were allowed to get away..it was a inside job at the highest levels of government otherwise we would have them today. All events up to 9/11 have been a indicator of the fingerprint of is coming. Most have been asleep at the wheel...especially here in America. Even today. Hey man..how about those Redskins...Despirate Housewives, Fear Factor.

Islam is above any government....beholden to none of them. Islam,s goals are world conquest for Islam. The infidel can keep his religion but he must pay a tax to keep practicing his religon. If not the "sword " can be lowered on the neck of the infidel. "May the Sword of Islam rest upon the Neck of the Infidel."

Do all Muslims believe this ..no not all. Most are just trying to eek out a living for themselves and thier familys. Very commendable. But when the radical mullas/Imans come into the mosque..they must submit if called upon. Any other view is "Silenced". If they dont go along they are branded "Infidels" and the Sword can be lowered upon them and thier familys. The average American hasnt a clue and the media/educational institutions in a hurry to have all religions be the same religion are wont to overlook this system of belief and practice. All religions are not the same religion and history clears this up if some of us even have a memory that goes back beyond the last commercial sound bite. Unfortunately most Americans dont. They are way to dumbed down.

"Submission" and all that it implys..in Islam. Not a concept taught to the Infidel.

Much of this information comes from the book "Islam and Terrorism" by Mark Gabriel...his western name. Mark is a graduate from Al Ahazar University in Cairo , Egypt where he has the equivalent of a Phd in Islamic studys. This is also the University where many of the more radical Mullahs taught including Omar Abdel Rahman..in jail now for the first World Trade Center bombing. Omar Abdel Rahman was at one time one of Mark Gabriels teachers.
Mark Gabriel is very careful to note that not all Muslims are of the radical type but when the Mullas speak they must submit or be branded a Indifel as was he for converting to Christianity. Mark Gabriel can now be killed as a infidel in Jihad and the killer can go to paradise immediately on his death...gauranteed. He lives with a sentance of death upon him since his conversion...at the hands of any of the faithful.
Do you know of any other religion today ..religions of peace..which endorse this practice.??? And there are people in this thread that want to put all religions on the same plane...all religions are the same religion.

Notice that in this thread..and other Muslim threads you do not hear this view posted or spoken about ..it is avoided while intellectuals try to put all religions on the same plane.
Alphabetaone ..how much of a Muslim do you have to be to know this????
The killing of thisTheo Van Gogh in Amsterdam...should have clued manypeople in here in recent times..but I can recall back to the 1970s,80s and 90s.

On a side topic...Fledgling666 your point about Christmas is well said. Too bad most Christians havent a clue or know much of history. They are doing exactly the pattern of abominations the Hebrews were doing as recorded in the Olde Testament. Following the traditions of men.
Years ago..when I learned of this I gave up Christmas , Easter, Halloween and even birthdays...I celebrate none of this drivel. All days are the same to me. Thanks for that post...glad to see that someone else knows.

Orangetom

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Christianity is just a combination of of judaism and some aspects of paganism.

Judaism is just a combination of arabic paganism and some persian paganism, and egyptian paganism transformed into a monotheistic belief.

Actually christianity is quite unique in it's beliefs, but for you to understand that would require you to do some delving into the new testament, something i doubt you would do.

Oh, and before the bible thumping starts:

I have this question concerning Jewish beliefs.
There is only one God. And, yet the first commandment states (old scrolls, numerous sources):
"I am a jealous God, and thou shall not worship any God before me."

So, If God acknowledges that other Gods exist and that God is jealous. ....

Can God be jealous of what doesn't exist?

[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]

Id like to point out that the bible was written by MAN ad a testament of God's word and works. Naturally, especially in the older texts, man has put his own opinion in there too. Also God didnt say other God's existed, just that he wanted the Israelites to only worship him.

A very interesting read to be had, along with a mention from the article [page 2] that has been greatly missed in Western media and seemingly within this board:

THE CASE OF MOHAMMED AFROZE puts all claims that Western opposition to reasonable goals of Muslims caused September 11, the London bombings, or any of al Qaeda's other attacks going back into the early 1990s. The goal all along has been for Osama bin Laden and his Islamofascist terrorists to seize control of the region that produces the world's energy in order to bring the infidels under their heel--and to be sure we stay there, regardless of our previous sympathies.

The Overlooked Case Of Mohammed Afroze: Al Qaeda's terrorism isn't really motivated by the Iraq War and Israel.






seekerof

[edit on 11-8-2005 by Seekerof]