Originally posted by DigitalGrl
k but yea i know some lutheran churches that are liberal and some that arent. but the missori synod "docturine" in and of itself i dont think is
liberal. maybe those that are in power are becoming like that however.
Some are liberal and some are not, you are right. My friend got forced out of his Church because he would not have open communion. Some members
thought that their Methodist family members should be able to commune on Easter.
You remember your Cathecism classes? Do you remember why no one should commune unless they come to the table with the right attitude or they drink to
their own damnation?
The Missouri Synod doctrine has changed quite a bit in the last 25 years, seminex was the big blow to the Synod, it was in the early 70's and was
best described as a 60's line of thinking.
There are some very conservative congregations in the MS left but they are fast becoming the minority.
My friend now has a good conservative congregation in Kansas and he couldn't be happier, they understand the Doctrines that Luther taught and is held
to by the Book of Concord (the Confessional Lutherans)....something the ELCA lost long ago......and sadly the Miss Syn is racing towards.
If you are interested I have some thing you may be interested in...
I will post it here and this is not even from my Synod...
'The Difference Between the ELS and 'LCMS'
New' Missouri And 'Old' Missouri Should Divide
'Although there is one official Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, there are really two Missouri synods existing
side by side. Within the church body one will find both the original Missouri Synod ('Old Missouri') and what
was termed ‘New Missouri’ says the Board of Evangelism of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod in a new
pamphlet titled we're glad you asked about ... The Difference Between the ELS and the LCMS' (p. 1).
The ELS board adds: 'If one were to judge by many of the writings of LCMS pastors, and by congregations
with LCMS pastors and laypeople, ‘Old’ Missouri seems to be a dwindling minority that has little impact on
the direction of the LCMS. ‘New’ Missouri appears to be the majority, at least when viewing the direction
LCMS seems to be heading.
'We Believe, Teach, and Confess, “a statement of faith of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod, is in The
Christian News Encyclopedia, Volume V, p. vi. The statement adopted at a convention of the ELS says that
the Bible condemns homosexuality and extramarital relations (fornication and adultery) as sin. It says that
the State has the right to administer capital punishment and wage just wars. It confesses: 'because abortion
results in the death fan unborn human being, we believe that it is never justified except in those rare and
tragic circum- stances when the continuation of the pregnancy would clearly threaten the life of the mother.
Abortion for any other reason is a great sin in the eyes of God.' The ELS statement condemns suicide and
CN promoted the ELS's Bethany College in Mankato decades before it began experiencing
tremendous growth both in the number of students and new buildings.
The front page of the February 24, 1964, Lutheran (now Christian) News featured an essay by
Bethany College President B,W, Teigen and 'A College for Conservatives' by Bethany Professor Glenn W.
Reichwald. Bethany Professor Rudolph Honey helped the CN editor with An American Translation of the
Bible. Among the LCMS professors who taught at Bethany were John Klotz, Paul Zimmerman, Jacob Preus,
Alfred Fremder, and Oswald HoffiMann. Robert Preus was the first graduate of Bethany Lutheran Seminary.
For many years ELS pastors attended Concordia Seminary until the ELS began its own seminary.
Several of the children and grandchildren of Robert and Donna Preus are graduates of Bethany.
Some of the Cascione and Often children are also graduates of Bethany. Pastor Jack Cascione has written
articles for CN highly recommending Bethany. Parents who want their children to attend a solid Christcentered
Lutheran school, which has a fine academic, athletic, and music program, should write to Bethany
for a catalog. Bethany has scored near the top on some national academic tests. Few small colleges in the
nation will have finer facilities than Bethany. The ELS also owns the Marvin- Schwan camp, which has
excellent facilities, many acres and a large lake for students at Bethany to use for re- treats.
Bethany currently has more than 86 million dollars in a 100 million dollar fund-raising drive. It is now a
four-year college. In recent years its seminary has also acquired a fine building. For information contact
Bethany Lutheran College, 700 Luther Dr., Mankato, Minnesota 56001, (507) 388-6963, Office, 344-743 1,
When the LCMS Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, re- fused to certify the editor of CN for the ministry,
after he exposed the liberal theology being taught and tolerated at the seminary, the ELS was one of the
smaller- conservative Lutheran church bodies he was encouraged to consider joining. The ELS is an
excellent orthodox church for which the editor and his wife, who attended Bethany, have the highest-regard.
However, the editor already had a call to serve Trinity Lutheran Church in New Haven. During the late 1950s
and the '60s he spoke throughout the nation, also in some ELS and WELS churches and schools during the
years Trinity was expelled from the LCMS. He knew there were thousands in the LCMS who were greatly
concerned about the theological liberalism being promoted at Concordia Seminary and elsewhere in the
LCMS. Joining a small orthodox Lutheran church body at that time would have made life easier but the
editor felt it would be throwing in the towel.
The editor had come into contact with thousands of faithful LCMS pastors and laymen who lived
many miles from any ELS church. He concluded that fighting for Old Missouri in the LCMS was still the best
way to reach and unite as many faithful Lutherans as possible all over the world. The editor was determined
to see to it that the liberals were removed from Concordia Seminary, St. Louis. When a survey in the 1966s
showed that approximately 25 percent of the LCMS clergy and 75 percent of the ALC-LCA (ULC) clergy
denied the inerrancy of the Bible, CN suggested that those in the LCMS who could not accept the LCMS’s
scriptural position on the inerrancy of the Bible join with the 75 percent in the LCA (ULC) and ALC who
denied the inerrancy of the Bible. He also proposed that the 25 percent in the LCA-A.LC who accepted the
inerrancy of the Bible work toward doctrinal agreement with the conservative LCMS majority with the
possibility of joining the LCMS. The editor has always been somewhat cautious of immediately forming
some new group, having seen how some of them end up constantly splitting over insignificant matters.
CN said that once the liberal element left the LCMS, the ELS and Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran
Synod and LCMS should resurrect the Synodical Conference. At one time the ELS, WELS and LCMS were
all in fellowship and members of the Synodical Conference.
The ELS is correct when it now observes that 'Old Missouri' is becoming a minority in the LCMS.
Renewal In Missouri (RIM), the organization of LCMS charismatics, claims to have the support of 600 LCMS
pastors. The last issue of CN named many liberals and charismatics on the LCMS roster.
Contrary to Rev. Paul McCain, LCWIS President A.L. Barry's assistant, who, like some other LCMS
presidential assistants in the past, bad mouths Christian News, the current weak LCMS administration has
done little about all the liberals on the LCMS clergy roster. Hardly anything is done about LCMS district
presidents who were big supporters of Seminex and now openly deny the scriptural position of the LCMS. It
seems the LCMS has few strong and courageous leaders who have what it takes to stand up to the liberals
on the LCMS Council of Presidents and elsewhere in the LCMS. In some ways the LCMS today is worse off
than it was before 'Old Missouri’ won the LCMS’s "Battle for the Bible during the 1970s and several hundred
liberal pastors, professors and mission executives left the LCMS.
Forty years ago the liberals had the courage to fight for their position. Today so many, particularly the
'Church Growthers' have a "who cares' attitude. 'You believe your way and I’II believe my way.' 'Deeds not
creeds is what counts "Numbers and money is the name of the game.' CN has often noted that the big
money the LCMS receives from the AAL, Lutheran Brotherhood, and other major sources is perpetuating a
tremendous growing bureaucracy. It is helping the bureaucrats stifle the efforts of the rapidly decreasing and
undermanned members of 'Old Missouri' as they battle the 'New Missouri.' The bureaucrats who want the
masses to believe that there are hardly any theological liberals on the LCMS clergy roster have the funds
and help to control the press.
The ELS pamphlet may be correct when it says that 'Old Missouri’ seems to be a dwindling minority
that has little impact on the direction of the LCMS.' Right now it has become virtually impossible for
conservatives in "Old Missouri' to reach very many within the LCMS. When they see all the resources the
bureaucracy in Missouri has to cover up for the liberals while it seeks to silence the conservatives who have
the courage to speak up, faithful pastors and laymen in 'Old Missouri' simply give up and join the ELS or
some other faithful Lutheran church body.
"Old Missouri' hopes that Rev. Daniel Preus will be elected First Vice-President of the LCMS and then
President. One of the daughters of Pastor and Mrs. Daniel. Preus is a graduate of Bethany College. LCMS
President Barry has also attended Bethany. "New Missouri" and 'Old Missouri' should peacefully divide.
"New Missouri' should join ELCA. If the pro-abortion and pro- homosexual ELCA is-too liberal for LCMS
charismatics, then the "conservative' charismatics should join the American Association of Lutheran
Churches which is open to the charismatics. There is no reason why there should be constant turmoil within
the LCMS between "Old' and "New' Missouri. There should be a peaceful division.
The ELS's pamphlet 'The Difference Between the ELS and LCMS' begins by quoting Psalm 133:1:
'Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity'.
The Differences Between The ELS and the LCMS
Board for Evangelism Evangelical Lutheran Synod
"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! (Psalm 133:1)
Beginning in 1857 the whole lump' (1 Corinthians dwell together in unity!' 5:6), the LCMS gradually (Psalm
133:1). Beginning in 1857, The ELS enjoyed fellowship with the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod for almost
100 years. During that time we shared a common faith. However a change occurred within the LCMS that
created serious differences between us.
In 1935, the LCMS began compromising its theology. It desired to establish fellowship with the
doctrinally unsound American Lutheran Church. Just as “a little leaven leavens the whole lump” 1
Corinthians 5:6), the LCMS gradually drifted away from its solid foundation. It began to tolerate deviations
from sound Biblical teaching, something it had never done before. (Theodore Aaberg's A City Set on a Hill
gives a detailed account.) After patiently protesting for years, the ELS severed fellowship with the LCMS in
Since that time, the LCMS has continued its gradual drift away from confessional Lutheranism. Many
are confused by the difference between the synod's official position, which can appear to be soundly
Lutheran, and what is practiced in many congregations. Al- though there is one official LCMS, there are
really two Missouri Synods existing side by side. Within the same church body one will find both the original
Missouri Synod ('Old Missouri') and what could be termed 'New Missouri.'
If one were to judge by many of the writings of LCMS pastors, and by conversations with LCMS
pastors and laypeople, "Old Missouri' seems to be a dwindling minority that has little impact on the direction
of the LCMS. 'New Missouri' appears to be the majority, at least when viewing the direction the LCMS
seems to be headed. To its credit, 'Old Missouri' has never embraced nor tolerated any of the errors that
began in 1935. The ELS has much in common with that part of the LCMS.
On the other hand, 'New Missouri' has altered its beliefs in order to be more appealing to the world.
One encounters pastors and people in the "New Missouri' who, despite the official LCMS position, deny the
inerrancy of Scripture, ignore the Lutheran Confessions, practice open communion, support the ordination of
women, participate in unionistic services, and deny that Christ is the only way to heaven. "New Missouri'
bears little or no resemblance to confessional Lutheranism or the original LCMS. The ELS has little, if
anything, in common with 'New Missouri.'
Sadly, because the 'Old' and 'New' Missouri are united in one synod, we cannot enjoy fellowship with
that small part of the LCMS with which we may share a number of doctrinal concerns. That would constitute
unionism and would be contrary to the Word of God.
Like that first generation of Lutherans involved in the Reformation, many in the LCMS find themselves
in a difficult situation. They must choose between remaining loyal to a church even though it has drifted
away from sound biblical teaching, or making the necessary sacrifices to remain faithful to the Holy
Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions.