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Crusading americans and their "holy war"

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posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sisteryou need to understand that. The god of mosses, the god of jesus, and the god of muhamad are all the same god.


You show right here that you havent the first clue...............




posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by Syrian Sisteryou need to understand that. The god of mosses, the god of jesus, and the god of muhamad are all the same god.


You show right here that you havent the first clue...............


What you mean ED? It is true.

THe God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is one in the same.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Infact, the arabic bible existed before the english bible, and in the arabic bible it said allah not god.

The first bible was in Hebrew and God is NOT "allah" in hebrew!

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
So christians have been saying allah, long before the word god has even existed.

If the Christians have been saying it in arabia all the while then the mohammedans must have copied it from them!

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
you need to understand that. The god of mosses, the god of jesus, and the god of muhamad are all the same god.

No they are not, Islam says their is only one god and he is called Allah. Yet you say all gods are the same? Are you contradicting your own religion?
Have you ever read the quran fully ?
The bible nor the Torah say that the muhammeds god is the same as their god.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
I would like those who are christian, and who support a "crusade/holy war against islam" To post , I . And those against such a crusade to post NAY.

I would like all the Mohammedan who believe in killing women and children by misinterpreting the quran and disgracing Mohammed to say AYE[Note: It is not "I" it is "Aye", if you had you education in English you would know that!] and all those who have truly won the Jehad in their spirit and see that only through words can peace be got say NAY.

See how easy it is to dole out the " Be brave, and be frank." sample space!


I see so many things wrong with the above statement you posted that I can put it all into words.
Firstly, the Western world [though you live in it you seem to be detached from the local psyche! probably you are socially ostracized] is not segregated into petty religious groups, atleast not till this business with the Islamists anyway.
In the West religion is not a issue, their is no scarves, no robes and no five times a day siren! Religion is-as you like it!

Secondly, the military in the western world is not a military of religion, for it contains people of all religions, all those who apply and get selected atleast. So calling on Christians who support a "holy war/crusade" is ridiculous, it’s demeaning. Do you realize that American Muslims are also fighting in Iraq against these insurgents, they die too? So when a military says that X soldiers died, its not like X Christian soldiers, it is X soldiers of whom some where Muslims too.
Finally, most who support the war in Iraq do so not because they think of it as a war against Muslims but a war against those who attacked America, killed its people and changes their lives for ever!
It that they generally fight for, the freedom to live in peace, racial hate is byproducts of this anger not its cause. You seem to feel that like the Muslim world, the west uses double standards and dichotomizes everything as "Muslim" and "non-Muslim" which is not the case.
The west fights against cowards and reprobates of Islam that defile the teachings of Mohammed to murder their own brothers, it fights against the mephitic malice of fundamentalism, it fights for the modernization of the middle east, it fights for the dreams and hopes of the common Arab that someday when all this god awful mess ends his children will have a more tolerant, prosperous and just future to live in.


You might already know all what is said and might choose not to comprehend it or dismiss it as "infidel propaganda" but that choice is left to you because that is the freedom that you are granted.
Or all these sensational statements might just be some petty attempt to create sensationalism and garner attention for otherwise banal tirades.


IAF



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 10:05 AM
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SS, don't try and put words into my mouth as a Christian. Muhammad said to persecute the infidel, and said that it is worse than death, but Christ says otherwise. He says rejoice if they persecute you in His name.

You don't seem to know your own religion, Syrian Sister! Civilians are a legitimate target if they are in some way helping out the cause of the enemy. All they have to do to be listed as helping out is to offer comfort and support to a loved one who is a soldier, or, as the murderers made it clear, live in America and pay taxes to the American government. As a matter of fact, SS, all one has to do to become the enemy itself is to refuse Islam and then not pay Jiszya.

Syrian, why don't you get off the "Your enemy doesn't exist, watch 1984" crap? Al Qaeda is not denied to exist by anyone in the Arab or Western world, so you should be feeling a bit, I don't know, disturbed by now. Either you're disturbed or the rest of the known world should be in a straight jacket.

You may have said for a second time that Jihad doesn't mean war, but for the second time you are either wrong or lying. There are two kinds of Jihad, one is where you are struggling with the lower self, and the other is where you struggle against those who do not believe as you do. Whereas Christianity spreads the truth about Christ from a standpoint of love and allows you to decide on your own, Islam spreads the belief about Muhammad at the point of a sword; you'll take the message, or you'll pay Jisya and live in constant humiliation, or you will die. That is plain and evident in both the Qur'an and plenty of hadiths. If you are wrong, that isn't surprising, as many people claim to be Muslim but don't understand their own belief (Thank God, because if they did, we'd be up to our necks in wars). If you are lying, then you know it is wrong to lie, unless you are talking to an unbeliever, in which case it isn't a lie but protecting yourslef from the infidel, "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them." Qur'ran 3:28

Now SS, let's clarify another one of your misstatememtns, you say that Christians say "Allah", too, that it means God. Make no mistake, we do not worship the same God. And, let us make one more clarification. The Crusades were the result of Islamic spread at the sword, and if there is another Crusade, it will be for the same reason. This being said, do not try and claim that if the West responds to another Islamic attempt that there are no Christians. That is bull. And, do not deny that Islam is about that, because that is what you are clearly commissioned to do. That is the lesser Jihad, and that is what you have been commanded to do. Of course, you already know this, which is why you are here as the propaganda agent.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

I know it's definetly not true about the majority christians, but some fundementalist christians won't stop terrorising and attacking people untill the whole world is christian.



LOL at this statement



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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The Crusades were the result of Islamic spread at the sword, and if there is another Crusade, it will be for the same reason.


The Crusades began long before Islam ever reached Europe. By about 500 years...

As far as religions spreading via the sword, Christianity has done more than a bit of that itself - like the entire Western Hemisphere for instance?

The "my God is better than your God" stuff is getting old...
To pretend the history of Christianity is one of peace and love untainted by Inquisitions, Pogroms, Crusades, etc... is absurd, and ignores 2000 years of bloody history.

Jesus may have taught peace and love, his followers don't appear to have paid much attention however.

"There are none so blind..."

[edit on 8/5/05 by xmotex]



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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Ever hear of the South African monkey trap? A hole is drilled into a tree and a nut is place inside. Along comes a monkey, sees the nut, reaches in and grabs it. The monkey can't get his hand out of the hole while making a fist and is too stubborn to let go so he is caught. (I think they have to kill the monkey to get him out)

The trap here is Religion, hold on to it with the fervor of not wanting to let go and you are caught in the trap. A trap created by the devil... God would have left the nut on the ground to easily have been picked up. The nut here is belief, we all (most of us anyway) want to believe in God. You know who the monkey is.

Am I saying abolish Religion? Hell no! What I am saying is that Religion, any Religion, must accomodate all or it can't be God's Religion since there is only ONE God. If you cling to the isolationist theme that "my Religion is the only true Religion" then you are deluded by evil and subsequently hate other Religions. This is the clever deception that not only has man pitted against man for his beliefs, but also fosters atheistic viewpoints since not all Religions can be right can they? (horrors, can God actually be EVERYTHING?) We all agree who/what the great deceiver is, not man, but the devil. Our theologies got scrambled and took away from the main underlying theme, That God is real, that there is only one God, and the hardest aspect for religions to understand, that God is within us ALL.

Look at it this way, man wrote the Bible, the Quran, Torah, man is the recorder of the written words contained in ALL religions. God wrote 10 commandments, etched in stone, for man to be guided. It didn't take volumes of words to explain, 10 simple commandments, not suggestions, commandments. To look at the Quran and say "all infidels must die" is taking a man's word that this is what God would have you do, and yet, the only thing God wants is for us to get along. To kill an infidel prevents him from ever "knowing" God. To start wars in His name is an abomination to God since we are ALL His children.
To adhere to wods written eons ago and remain deluded as to the true underlying meaning is retarded, plain and simple. You must grow up and see the underlying truth and not get caught up in the belief that I'm gonna hit you with the bible/Quran/Torah to make you believe.

The teachings of Christ make the commandments a whole lot simpler, love. To love is to respect. To love is to forgive. To love is to have compassion for anothers plight. To love is to put God before oneself. There is only one God friends, and that God is within us ALL. Non-believers still have God within them, they just don't feel it and if you truly knew the touch... you'd be yelling as loud as I am. Get over it! I can love all of you, forgive all of you, accept all of you, and yet all of you don't feel that way towards everyone else. Think I'm wrong? Look at yourselves. Do some soul searching and find that we are ALL God's creation and as such are all family. Like it or not, tempers/jealousy/hate/envy, whatever can be said of human emotion, we are all the same in God's eyes.
Would you nuke someone you love? What do you think Jesus would do? What if that innocent victim whose blood was spilled in an attack were Jesus? Would you know or even care? Yeah, its not God or the love of Jesus that has the world building weapons. Think about it.

[edit on 5-8-2005 by keybored]



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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It seems to ME that Syrian Sister may, perhaps be trying to say something
that I think a lot of you may not be recognizing.
WHOMEVER the "supreme being" is or what he/she is called is of VERY little
importance, and i think that if God, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha could or
does see some of you as your are writing with only YOUR particular
denominations or agendas in mind, would be saddened by your ignorance.
Whatever the NAME, the being can only be one. There could only have
been ONE creator of the universe, only ONE creator of earth, only ONE
who is merciful enough to save us from our damn selves! The name
holds no importance....the entity is what holds all the importance.
Christians are not engaged in a holy war, muslims are not, buddhists are
not.

Why is it that we always, as people not any particular country or religion,
see the error of our ways when its already too late? We are all just that,
regular PEOPLE. Lets band together for a common good, not divide
ourselves over a religion or name of an entity? Are some of you so petty
that you would believe there is meaning in a naming convention?



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by xmotex

The Crusades began long before Islam ever reached Europe. By about 500 years...



maybe u havent heard of the Reconquista, in which the Muslims entered modern day Spain in 711 A.D. and Christians were trying to take it back. this was long before the Crusades was commenced in response to the takeover of Jerusalem by the Muslim armies.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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Alphabetaone, I see the we were both moved by the same spirit. A double volley from two sources simultaneously... seems like proof enough to me that there still is hope for this world.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by keybored
Alphabetaone, I see the we were both moved by the same spirit. A double volley from two sources simultaneously... seems like proof enough to me that there still is hope for this world.


Keybored, yes you're right..apparently we were and I certainly hope
that there is enough hope to save us ... as you, im glad to see someone
else of the same mindset



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
. And, let us make one more clarification. The Crusades were the result of Islamic spread at the sword, and if there is another Crusade, it will be for the same reason. This being said, do not try and claim that if the West responds to another Islamic attempt that there are no Christians. That is bull. And, do not deny that Islam is about that, because that is what you are clearly commissioned to do. That is the lesser Jihad, and that is what you have been commanded to do. Of course, you already know this, which is why you are here as the propaganda agent.


Just as a side note, and I consider this pretty important in my eyes..
Thomas, the "US" that you refer to in there, i would appreciate it if you
edit it or remove it from now or future posts. You dont speak for US
you only speak for you...I dont want you to assume under any
conditions that a thing you say I may potentially agree with.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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True about the Reconquista, however it may not be a great example of the inherent wonderfulness of Christianity - when the Moors invaded Spain, they pretty much allowed the Christians there to worship as they wished. When the Christians took back land from the Moors, they tortured & murdered any Muslims and Jews who refused to convert.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by nathraq

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by Syrian Sisteryou need to understand that. The god of mosses, the god of jesus, and the god of muhamad are all the same god.


You show right here that you havent the first clue...............


What you mean ED? It is true.

THe God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is one in the same.



How many times does this have to be explained?

The God of Abraham maybe? Well in that sense I would agree except for the small details about the Christ and the "I AM" statement.

Islam can not worship the same God, because that would mean that God denied Himself?

As the Jews fail to recognize the Son, so go the Muslims.........

The verse in Genesis states:


Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

So its a 'translation' issue then?

(HOT) ויאמר אלהים נעשׂה אדם בצלמנו כדמותנו וירדו בדגת הים ובעוף השׁמים ובבהמה ובכל־הארץ ובכל־הרמשׂ הרמשׂ על־הארץ׃


The text tells us he was the work of Elohim, the Divine Plurality, marked here more distinctly by the plural pronouns Us and Our; and to show that he was the masterpiece of God’s creation, all the persons in the Godhead are represented as united in counsel and effort to produce this astonishing creature.




Gen 1:26 - And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness,...

These words are directed not to the earth, out of which man was made, as consulting with it, and to be assisting in the formation of man, as Moses Gerundensis, and other Jewish writers (f), which is wretchedly stupid; nor to the angels, as the Targum of Jonathan, Jarchi, and others, who are not of God's privy council, nor were concerned in any part of the creation, and much less in the more noble part of it: nor are the words spoken after the manner of kings, as Saadiah, using the plural number as expressive of honour and majesty; since such a way of speaking did not obtain very early, not even till the close of the Old Testament: but they are spoken by God the Father to the Son and Holy Ghost, who were each of them concerned in the creation of all things, and particularly of man: hence we read of divine Creators and Makers in the plural number, Job_35:10 and Philo the Jew acknowledges that these words declare a plurality, and are expressive of others, being co-workers with God in creation.....



Therefore, if they deny the authority of Christ, they deny the Christ, and therefore worship a false God.














Originally posted by xmotex
True about the Reconquista, however it may not be a great example of the inherent wonderfulness of Christianity - when the Moors invaded Spain, they pretty much allowed the Christians there to worship as they wished. When the Christians took back land from the Moors, they tortured & murdered any Muslims and Jews who refused to convert.



The problem I see with this is memories. Of course Christians killed in Gods name. Was it right? Well I would think not, but if that is the best you can do is bring up what Christianity did 500 years ago, then you miss the point. Are you saying that Chirstianity has matured and Islam hasnt? Its the 21st Century and this is unacceptable behavior in the civilized world, no matter the religion.


You want a good example? Remember what the Taliban did to the Hindu statues in Afghanistan?

Well in the West, we have to let Satanists worship as they please, even though what they do offends us.....No longer does Christianity spead the Word by the sword....so that is no longer an excuse that one could use.



[edit on 5-8-2005 by edsinger]



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

In islam, civilians are never legitimate targets. Ever, ever not in any case or any situation.
[edit on 2-8-2005 by Syrian Sister]


I know this is futile but.......

Tell that to the civilians in Iraq that are being killed by insurgents. I'm sure that they feel that it was good to die by the hand of another Muslim. Oh wait, I'm sure all of them were collaberators and deserved to die, since they were just trying to stay alive and rebuild their nation, not drive the invaders out.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 12:32 AM
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This whole topic is nothing more than rant. The Crusading Americans ? Don't tell that to all of the Islamics who have long ago BAILED OUT of the supposed great culture in which they come from : The Middle East. Why do you move to America or Europe if you are so great ? Perhaps' you should get back to your " ROOTS " and tend to the flock who no longer want to live in such a time as the 1500's ? And what are you doing on this computer ROBOT that was invented by your enemies ? Gulp gulp gulp.......keep chugging the SNOOZE.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 12:33 AM
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Boy oh boy the TRUTH really hurts when nobody gives a RAT about stupid topics such as " CRUSADERS " huh ? Has the author of this whole waste of time thread ever seen so much GERMAN ARMOR as there is presently residing in SAUDI ARABIA ? The Case of the Mercedes Benz : CRUSADING at 110mph down Bullcrap & Vine.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 06:31 AM
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The entire concept is complete nonsense. If america were on a crusade against Islam then why are there any muslims left on the planet? America has the power to vaporize Islam.

Any such dribble as "crusading" against Islam is just an atempt to cry and dwell in self pity.......



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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America has the power to vaporize a religion?

A religion with over a billion adherents?

No, it really doesn't.

It'd be one thing if that billion lived in one area...but that's simply not the case.

There are over 1200 mosques and 2 million Muslims in the US alone. Would the US start killing off it's own home-grown Muslims, too?



[edit on 7-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 08:18 AM
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There are a BILLION+Catholics on this planet as well, so who cares about your stats ? If Islamics keep calling for Jihads and killing woman and children, the world will react accordingly. Flying planes into buildings or slicing off heads on TV is not helping that supposed peaceful religion.



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