Crusading americans and their "holy war"

im not catholic..missori synod lutheran actually, so while the vadican is pretty and all i dont need to go and visit a building to further my religious faith.

and i dont think we should go around nuking people.....wth lol. if someone nukes the heck out of america...i doubt we will be able to do much about it. so many people would be dead from the blast and then the ones that survived the blast would die out some as well. so there wouldnt be that big of an army left would there?

im not really familar with what the actual effects would be on america if it were nuked...anybody know? like if my state illinois got nuked what would be the radius around our state that would be effected? and then wouldnt people die from radiation afterwards? there are also supposed to be effects on the weather as well for awhile right?

anyways, heres a good question for everyone...what would you want your governemnt to do if your country was nuked?

Kind Regards,
DigitalGirl

[edit on 10/01/2004 by DigitalGrl]

here is the FULL definition for crusade....
from www.dictionary.com

cru·sade ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kr-sd)
n.
1.often Crusade Any of the military expeditions undertaken by European Christians in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims.
2.A holy war undertaken with papal sanction.
3.A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse.

Originally posted by DigitalGrl
anyways, heres a good question for everyone...what would you want your governemnt to do if your country was nuked?

That sounds like a good title for a new thread. Start one off and see how ya go with it.

Originally posted by DigitalGrl
and i dont think we should go around nuking people.....wth lol. if someone nukes the heck out of america...i doubt we will be able to do much about it. so many people would be dead from the blast and then the ones that survived the blast would die out some as well. so there wouldnt be that big of an army left would there?

If someone 'nukes the heck out of america', we won't need to worry about retaliation. The 'gang bang' on that country would be historical. Don't you think the other 'nuke yielding countries' would make certain the 'suspected' trigger finger would see their 'God' by sundown? You see, whom ever is the first to drop 'the bomb', will essentially wipe themselves off the map.

hey thanks bike i think ill do that.


Sour:
thank you for posting that link, thats pretty cool.
"

Originally posted by Passer By
How exactly is Islam being rammed down your throat?

Jeohavahs witness', you may have something there, but Islam? How is that?

avro says: in my country my government allows militant Muslim clerics to preach hate outside Mosques in London when I switch on the news channels this is what we hear. God knows what they are saying behind closed doors, when a Jehovas witness or Morman comes to my door a polite rebutal is all it takes plus I know they will not try to bomb me into submission they have their beliefs I have mine, end of story and we all live happily ever after

Originally posted by Seekerof
Who declared "holy war" first, Syrian Sister and when?
Hint, 1996 and he is a member of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism.





seekerof

True Seeker. However Bin Laden did not represent a country, nation or religion.

President Bush does though, no?

There is a big difference there.

Al Qaeda is a hostile international organization that able to inflict death and destruction on the U.S. that was on the scale of the Empire of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. The fact that they're not a recognized nation-state is just a technicality -- they're just as dangerous, if not more so. That organization declared a "holy war" against our country, and we must fight that organization with the same fervor as we would any hostile nation during war.

Originally posted by C0le
Btw SS this holy war stuff is stupid, Your little muslim buddies made a HOLY WAR, not the united states or bush, We didnt give a damn about the middle east before 9/11, We didnt need to profile muslims, We didnt dislike islam, Blame your buddies, For the current problem, Not us.

Now I don't know about you, but I thought there was a war in Iraq in the early nineties. If this is an example of the U.S. not giving a damn about an area, then I would hate to see what happens when they take a genuine interest.

Something I recalled the other day but can't remember the exact details...was it the presence of U.S. troops on Saudi soil, as a result of the second Gulf War, that was the major contributor to current animosity towards 'the West'. Anyone remember that?

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan

When i said that i was refering to this Holy war crap, Along with everyone going crazy not to offend muslims and arabs and profiling and such
In the 90's we were simply at war with iraq for invading kuwait, it was just another war.

9/11 was personal, they didnt attack us for money or because they wanted our land, they attacked us for being us, they attacked us and used there religion as justification for murder, They made this a holy war not us.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Al Qaeda is a hostile international organization

. . . . . . of atheistic mercenaries hired by Bush and his henchmen.

Originally posted by C0le
...they attacked us for being us...

A lot of people I speak to seem to adopt this opinion.

if someone actually nuked the US, and well, they were sure that they knew who it was, and, I imagine they would know who and well they would be able to get a nuke or two off. ya, I would kind of hope they would get ONE NUKE off to the heart of the ones that nuked us. If that heart is Mecca, well, then that's where I'd want the nuke to go.

but, we need to go easy on this nuke crap, too many of the things all going off at the same time, well, it's gonna do some major damage to everyone. And, the US is still a major player in the world economy and if it's crippled bad enough, it will upset the stability of the entire world. So, well, na, I don't want a nuclear holocaust, if I survive, I want to be able to enjoy watching the karmic powers come back and bite them on the arse!!

and, it was Bush who first referred to this war as a "crusade". I'm not reallly into the theory that Bush is a moron, so he knew exactly what kind of reception everyone would have with this. wonder why he chose to use this word?

elvis,

"The fact people in this thread can seriously suggest that IF America is nuked, that Islam should be nuked off the planet makes it very easy for America to nuke itself and blame Islam for the sake of Bush's 'Crusade'. "

I believe the original quote was bo dietl saying if an arab muslim terrorist nuked an american city (paraphrase) we should nuke their holy sites.

I posted that if we were nuked by an arab muslim terrorist, I would support a counter strike to wipe them off the planet


I mean, once you nuke someone, negotiations, sanctions, and legislation are out the window !!!! its survival time, and I want my side to survive.


granted, nobody wins when mother earth is struggling to filter out the nuke aftermath, but if it comes down to one side winning and surviving, I want it to be my side

Again, this is a specific scenario where AQ or UBL nukes us, what would our response be ?

Again, this is a specific scenario where AQ or UBL nukes us, what would our response be ?

With no obvious target for retaliation, we would probably attack Iran. The neocons want to anyway. Whether Iran actually had anything to do with it really wouldn't matter.

Much like we attacked Iraq not long after 9/11, despite the fact that Iraq almost certainly had nothing to do with it.

That's the problem with retaliating against attacks by terrorists. They are dispersed, and they present no clear target for retaliation. After 9/11, at least we had a country (Afghanistan) that was clearly sheltering them and offering them a location to base their operations. But the invasion of Afghanistan was judged to be insufficient response to 9/11, so we attacked a third party.

Nuking Mecca - it's simply not going to happen, despite the Holy War fantasies of the far right and Christian religious fanatics. Firstly, even the Bush Administration is smart enough to know that this would immediately turn hundreds of millions of moderate Muslims (who still comprise a majority, despite the rantings of the pro-genocide kulturkampf crowd) into radicals looking for vengance. Secondly, with Bush in office, any attacks against his buddies in the House of Saud are off the table, period.

[edit on 8/3/05 by xmotex]

Originally posted by DigitalGrlim not catholic..missori synod lutheran actually, so while the vadican is pretty and all i dont need to go and visit a building to further my religious faith.

I was Missouri Synod for 30+ years in Illinois, then the liberalness of the Church forced me over to Wisconsin Synod and I love it. There are no debates about being of this world, its back to the basics....no Political Correctness in this Synod.

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Al Qaeda is a hostile international organization

. . . . . . of atheistic mercenaries hired by Bush and his henchmen.

The funny part is you believe this crap........

Excuse my two-cents worth...but I've made an observation, and now want to ask a question.

Why is it, that the word Jihad strikes fear in the hearts of Christians, and at the very least a nod/wink from Muslims...but the word Crusade strikes a cord of anger amongst Muslims...and DISGUST in the minds of so many Western "Christians"?

Maybe I should reword this and simply ask why you aren't as disgusted by the term Jihad as you are by the word Crusade?

If this is TRUELY a war of religion, and knowing that even the most secular Muslims won't try to stop an Islamic attack of America, then I suggest you reconcile yourself to fight on one side or the other, because that's EXACTLY what it will come down to.

First thing, I'll contribute to your point tally on this thread for one reason, its not about you.
Secondly, nothing that happens today is of any real surprise to me, it had been written. Do you want to call it a crusade, or you call it a holy war (which a contradiction in terms btw... there is nothing holy about war) and blame America for it all in the fist place, then that's your free-will God given right. It doesn't mean anything other than you are buying into a human thought process and in no way would God have it this way... the love of Jesus is the only answer.
Now I'm not going to hijack this thread in His name, but I'd like to point out a few things that become apparent in this world...
1) people of various Faiths simply are incapable of getting along... why? Because they don't understand God's all empowering love for us ALL... don't understand that it is the only way to resolve our differences, and that it is through the love of God that you have nothing to fear.

Had I the inclination or evil intent that Islam portrays me as, I'd be your worst nightmare, count on it. I have enough intellect to hit you where it hurts the most, have enough technical know-how as to how to do it, and had enough anger in me to carry it out... BUT, the love of God is my strength and I know that this leads to the Second Coming and by God, this war mongering will end. Now I could become deluded into thinking that any action I do is a ticket to Heaven but at the same time I know in my heart that to harm anyone would be wrong. I'll follow my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. His teachings are of a simple nature, to love one another.

2) There is only one God, and God is within us ALL. Semantics as to geographical/political swaying aside, bottom line is that there is only one True God in any religion and that God is within us ALL. Don't you think it just tears him apart to watch his children killing each other?
3) put your Faith in a man and you lose. Put your trust in a man all you lose is your naivety.
4) History repeats itself. If we don't/won't learn, we are doomed to repeat it.

If Islam is such a peaceful Religion, why isn't it from the Muslims that we hear from. Why aren't they coming forward to re-assure mankind that these acts are the maniacle leanings of deluded men. Your silence speaks volumes, and quite frankly, it is too late to come forward to win my vote. This ploy might just be coming evident and nothing was done when it first started so I tend to believe that "holy war" is what you wanted all along.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
As for demonizing America, that is our right to free speech which will get eroded over time thanks to global terrorism. We can still speak our minds here and yet I don't see that same freedom in the Muslim world. Times change though friends, this "war posturing" has all up in arms and I for one rely on the teachings of Christ to see me through. Hear my message now while I am still able to send it.

Now I know that the closer things get to the end time the louder I speak of His Coming. I expect to be persecuted since that too had been written, and I aslo know that it won't make the tiniest bit of difference to you, am I wrong? (Syrian Sister)
I still love you though, it is what God and particularly Jesus would have me do.
Last point and forgive my verbosity here, the escalation of everything is evident. The days of our dependence of old ways is outdated, the onset of religious/political upheaval is at a boiling point, and the threats of Nuclear war on a global scale seems to be an ever-increasing possibility. They even make software to predict the blast radius (as linked to above). It is a safe asumption to make that we are headed for an all out unlimited showdown... why? ... just look at yourself. As a species we are flawed in that we have a lack of morality and compassion towards others. Some more so than others.
Forcing one's morals upon another might appear to win you a convert, however, like an animal with its back against the wall, it will bite. Spread the word, not bombs. Spread love and kindness and not hate and ill-will. It would make you a much more likeable person, particularly in the way you like yourself. If you don't have it in you to begin with, I'm sorry for wasting your time. ... but God hasn't given up on you...yet.

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan


When i said that i was refering to this Holy war crap, Along with everyone going crazy not to offend muslims and arabs and profiling and such
In the 90's we were simply at war with iraq for invading kuwait, it was just another war.
9/11 was personal, they didnt attack us for money or because they wanted our land, they attacked us for being us, they attacked us and used there religion as justification for murder, They made this a holy war not us.

If you beleive that I have some beach front property in Switzerland I would like to sell to you!!

What is just another war? Please tell me you don't believe that the US was just concerned about the Kuwaities? One of the worst human rights offenders , the USA, could give a rats a** about human rights in Kuwait or any where else .

They attacked us for being us? No. They attacked us because they really believed they were defending themselves from our imperialism. America is not an innocent victim. ( the true victims are the average joes, You and Me who get killed when a terrorist blows up a bus).
SS-I know you really believe that Islam is a religion of peace. For many I know it is. However, it is fact the a large minority have hijacked your beliefs to justify their own imperialistic fantasies. Christianity is no different. Both Islam and Christianity have a long and bloody history. They are both guilty!!

Islam has the most powerful weapon of all. They have control of the oil. They should be the supreme power on the earth. If Arab governments would dump Islam and concentrate on bettering life for their people they could be the biggest baldest MF on the block. Then they could defend themselves honorably.

Here is another rambling thought. Let's say the tables were turned. Say...Iran is the supreme power in the world. They control a majority of the oil ( work with me here) ...They're a nuclear power...They have sent troops to many "Christian" nations in the name of protecting human rights or helping oppressed minorities. In the process they push their idea of a superior "way of life" They keep us oil poor. As a result America is poor, the people are hungry( America has the bread basket-enough to feed the world but Iran gets most of it to the betterment of a few corporate families) , and people die of the measles. Then they decide to support Mexico's claim that California and Texas belong to them...I mean after all once long ago it did. They would give billions of dollars to Mexico to help in the cause. What would we do? Sit idly by while our country's sovereignty is ignored? Then. Lets say. Some charismatic, rich American comes on the scene. He's pissed. How dare the Iranians come to our country and try to push their way of life on us. He starts "preaching" that we should fight back. But how? We can't beat them in a conventional war. So he funds some "freedom fighters". He becomes a hero to Americans every where. Eventually he becomes a fugitive from Iranian authorities and hides out in the Smokey Mountains. The Iranians bomb the crap out of the Smokeys to flush him out. To no avail. On and on it goes until the American people are exterminated or they learn to control their bread basket and get Iran by the balls.

Anyway...I don't know where that came from. When I start getting angry and having thoughts like " Just nuke em" I try to put myself in their shoes and I come with stuff like that. I just heard on CNN a quote by the new Iranian president.




I am in no condoing the killing of innocent people. I guess what I am trying to say is that there are killers on both sides and innocent victims on both sides. Also both use religion to justify their atrocities.

Why aren't they coming forward to re-assure mankind that these acts are the maniacle leanings of deluded men.

They are, and have been for a while, unfortunately nobody is interested in listening.

1,000's of Islamic scholars condemning terrorism don't sell papers or boost TV ratings. The few voices of unreason and violence do.

[edit on 8/3/05 by xmotex]