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When do we get our Liberties back?

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posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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GOTTR, and to others that share Gottr's views. I want to be clear that i understand where you are coming form as a lot of you think we are living in a prison state or something. The thing is we are NOT living in a prison state...yet, and we may never live in a prison state. If we do end up going that way because of new laws that actually infringe on the majority of American's citizens lives and freedom, then that is the time to make a stink about it.
However right now we HAVE to have the little things like stepped up security and more bag searches in places like NYC's subway. Those little things are hardly affecting the majority of american's rights. The only other solution, which is not a solution, is to to nothing and that makes no sense in a world of islamic fundamentalist that want to attack us on our own soil.
I recently moved out of NYC after living there the last 5 years and i am glad they are FINALLY stepping up precausions on the subways. I think most NYCer's are probably for this that take the subway. The thing is they still are probably not searching all that many bags on the majority of NYCer's on the subways. There are to many people to search.
Do we have corrupt offiacials in the Bush admistration? Of course that is clear. but we have had corrupt officals through out the history of the U.S.
Either way we still have terrorist's that want to kill american citizens on our own soil, so there has to be certain new measures to try and make it harder for them to do that. It does not matter how corrupt our Gov't. may be ot may not be, we still need to take measures to make it more difficult for terrorist's to attack us, and quite freankly there is not enough measures being taken. Stepped up bag searches in certain hot spots are hardly something that is affecting the majorit of American's in any real way that is changing their lives.
Truth is if i was still in NYC, i could be carrying my backpack everyday and i still would probably not be searched. It is hardly affecting anyones freedoms in a way that matters and it needs to be done, there is no other solution.
We suppossedly went to war with Iraq because the Bush admin. said they had WMD. Well this was clearly B.S., but that has nothing to do with the fact that islamic fundamentalist hated us before that and the fact that they bombed the world trade center in 1993 and then finally took the towers down in 2001.
We have to have what steeped up security measures we can to try to make it harder for them to do that.
The truth is that anyone of you on this thread could pull off a terrorist attack of some type in this country if you really wanted to. If YOU can do it, that means that terrorists that are living here now can do it and we need to do our best to try and stop that from happening. Stepped up bag searches in cetain locations is one very small way to put into the terrorists minds that it will not be as easy for them to just walk onto a subway with a bomb. It HAS to be done and it is hardly affecting the majority of americans freedom in a way that matters.
As far as local authorities harrassing peaceful demonstarters from time to time, that has nothing to do with 911 and has been going on here and there forever. That is simply poorly trained or a##hole cops that get out of hand. It has nothing to do with 911 or current events.
It's not like the NYCPD has been given orders from higher up's to harrass average americans or something but all of you make it sound like that is what is going on.

Instead of complaining on this site about stepped up bag searches which none of you will probably even have done to you, why are you not trying to organize and write and call your congressmen in your various states and demand that more be done to investigat our reasons for being in Iraq and prostest how you are against the fact that so many of our troops are coming home without arms and legs and the gov't. simply givers them a fake leg or arm and says thanks a lot. I live in a upper middle class neighborhood right now where all my neighbors complain about us being in Iraq, yet none of them do anything about it like banding together and writing and calling their congressmen. Why because the fact is that we are all living with freedom to live our lives the way we want, so we do what we want and are to lazy to actually organize and write and call our congressmen.
I see all these websites some of you have on your profiles about prison states, etc., etc. How many of you have written or called your congressmen to voice your concerns? How many of those people running those prison planet sites have called for the masses of people to organize and write and call their congressmen to voice their concerns? how many of those running those sites are doing nothing but making money on selling their videos?
how many of you saw Farhenhiegt 911 or any other films like that and then organized and wrote or called your congressmen? Instead people just complain, like on this website about things like stepped up bag searches which is not even affecting you and you go about you life how you want anyway because of the fact that you do have so much freedom to do what you want that you are lazy and go no further then complain.
Complain to your congressmen. Make the effort to actully write and call them. Make the effort to get your neighbors to do the same and make sure it is about issues that actually matter and not something like stepped up bag searches that is probably not even happening to you anyway and is not really even sffecting the freedoms of american's in the first place.
If you have facts to back up that the FBI or the CIA or the Bush administration are doing corrupt things, then prsent the facts to your neighbors, organizr and write and call your congressmen and stop whining about stepped up bag searches that are not even affecting you anyway.




posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:25 AM
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Increased Levels of Poverty = Raise in drug addicts.
Increased Drugs into American = More crime.
War on Terror = Afganistan.

Anyone else notice what has happened there since the Taliban got taken out? Even more drug production.

How many troops were sent into Iraq? 150,000?
You do all known Brazil has been asking for military help to destroy the drug fields as have several other South and Central American Nations.

CAFTA could have been used to help this even further, cut off on drugs coming into American destroys the drug industry and helps reduce crime. Instead we have wars in the Middle East and invasions that result in even more drugs being sold in America and Europe.

Only way you'll lower crime is when people have the ability to;
A) Earn money and make a decent living (jobs going to Africa, etc, stop this).
B) Government cripples the drug industry.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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Muzzelflash, how is it you are 24 and can not buy that game? You are old enough to drink and you are old enough to go to an r or even xxx movie so how are you telling me you can not buy that game?
The reason that law was made is beacuse a lot of inner city kids living in poor areas play games like that and see gansta movies and then they think that is the way to get ahead bacause the sad fact is that their parents do nothing to teach them any different.
It's more then likelt things like that being the reason that so many kids are simply killing each other and adults over stupid thing like a simply 150.00 paycheck or 50.00 for money owed on a rap concert ticket (both of which happened in Phila. this year).
The reason the gov't has to make stupid laws the the video game law is because of the knuckle headed parents that do not teach their kids that life is sacred. so now the gov't. has to step in with stupid laws like in a samll hope thatis curbs some of the ever growing killing that is going on with inner city kids now.
i still do not see how you, a 24 yr. old can not buy that game though. a 24 yr, old can but whatever he wants, so what are you talking about?


[edit on 31-7-2005 by GREGNOW]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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The truth is there should be laws against rap videos. Where is it someones RIGHT to present the image that it ok to sell drugs and kill those who get in your way in america. Yet that is what most of these gansta rappers are saying and presenting on their videos.
They are not actors in a movie, they are real people saying that is the way to live. Kids see that and say, well, he famous and a clebrity so why not me to?
I don't have the right to go on to a podem and start telling people that it is cool to sell drugs and kill all those that get in your way, i don't know mabey i actually do have that right, but even if i do, there would be upstanding american's all over me.
The same should be done with these gansta rappers videos.
I just saw a 50cent video where he basically is hiding out and using women to lure his enemies in and then he confronts his enemies and it implies that he is killing them off so that he can take over their money and business's. that's not a movie and an actor , that's a real guy who is saying to kids watching those videos that that is the way to live and get ahead.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:43 AM
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"When do we get our Liberties back?"


I havent noticed I have lost any liberties. My life hasnt change one bit.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
The truth is there should be laws against rap videos. Where is it someones RIGHT to present the image that it ok to sell drugs and kill those who get in your way in america. Yet that is what most of these gansta rappers are saying and presenting on their videos.


Gregg- People like you are the reason this country is in the crapper.

This thread is about getting ones liberties back and you start talking about taking away more?

I might get busted for this, but I seriously hope they herd your kind up first. Actually I have the comfort of knowing they will, because people like me are already underground, and protected. Have fun at the camps gregg!
(don't worry there probably wont be any rap videos there)



[edit on 31-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 10:55 AM
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Gregg-Two pages, and a day later and you are still regurgitating your big bad scary world argument. Do you ever tire of being afraid?

So once again let me re-cap our lesson from yesterday. (listen up skippy this could help you too)-

Just because you do not see it, and just because your everyday activities such as work, and liberty to purchase have not been infringed upon, does not mean that bigger rights are not being violated.

Also this has NOTHING to do with 9-11, or london or terrorism, this started long before, and this is just the polishing up phase. So quit your qhining about two buildings that fell almost five years ago. It has not happened again, and that is not because we caught that crafty shoe bomber.

Perhaps if people like you did more than sit at your computer you would see this. I gave some links with some pics of people attempting to exercise their rights, and the consequences. Perhaps you did not see the photos Gregg?

www.copwatch.org...



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 11:06 AM
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Odium, you are right about the drug thing and more should be done to stop it, but that does not mean that going to Afaganistan and doing what we did did not have to be done. We destroyed the talibans rule there the way it was and people there now have more freedom then they did before, ESPECIALLY women, who had like no rights at all and were treated like dogs and killed for almost anything.
As far as drugs they should do more to stop them, but at the same time no one is forcing anyone to stick a crack pipe or heroin needle in their arm. That's a personla choice someone makes and i don't want to hear it has to do with poverty. Plenty of poor people do not go out and do drugs just because they are poor and on top of that if they are so poor, then where are they getting the money to buy the drugs? If they are stealing it, then again no one is forcing them to steal and no one is forcing them to do drugs, both of which all people in their right minds know is wrong.
The problem is with parents who should not even be having kids in the first place as they grow up worse off then their parents. You have all these inner city people that just want to go out and have unprotected sex when they know they can produce a baby they can not take care of properly or they can get HIV, and they just say f@ck it and go have unprotected sex anyway. whose fault is that? no one but there owns and it's no one but there owns if they choose to do drugs instead of making an effort to better themselves.
I'm an EMT and you know what? for 250.00 to 700.00(depending on where you live) you can go to school for 3 months to be an EMT-basic and you have a garunteed job as there is such a shortage of EMT's nationwide. ANYONE who is then middle class or lower can then get the Fed. loans and grants to go to EMT-Paramedic school with it all paid -( in Phila. that is about 18,000.00. and school is only a year to a year and a half) you then not only have a garunteed job as an EMT-B or EMT-P (EMT-B's make 10.00-16.00 and EMT-P's make 20.00-30.00 an hour) but you are also helping out the community and you are garunteed a job because there is a shortage of all EMT's nationwide and it is said there will be a shortage at least until 2012. In Phila. there is even a shortage of paramedics in the Fire departments in Phila. and NYC. you can they get a job as a paramedic with the firs company and you then have a state job with good pay, good benifets, and a pension after 25 years.
But hey, if people want to choose to drugs instead, then that is no ones fault but their own. And then it is people like me who are called to help them come out of their overdoses if they aren't dead yet.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 11:14 AM
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And i could say the same about you on all counts PHEONIX. First off where do you get off to keep calling me "scared". I'm not scared. I'm glad that authorites are making the effort (even though it is small) to try and prevent further attacks and keep my way of life here. YOU are the one that is "scared" that your freedoms are being taken away when they really are not. what would "scare" me is if the authories were doing nothing (like you advocate) to try and prevent further attacks in america. Make some sense will you?
Second, i stand by my rap video argument. We are not talking movies with actors. We are talking about gansta rappers who are REAL people that say it's cool and alright to sell drugs and kill any who get in their way and that is the way to get ahead in life. so what you are saying is that people should now be able to tell kids that vit's cool to sell drugs and kill those who get in your way so that you can get ahead in life by murdering others.
Yea, you make sense PHEONIX. People who promote a lifestyle of selling drugs and killing others are part of the reason this country is going down the tubes, not people like me that are against promoting a lifestyle of selling drugs and killing others.
Are you for real Pheonix?
And why would i be "rounded up" for anything, let alone first to be "rounded up". I DON'T kill or sell drugs or do anything illegal, so guess what? No one is coming to "round me up". YOU are the one that is "scared" of things that are not even happening yet and may never happen, but you act like they are. You are "scared" and paranoid to boot.



[edit on 31-7-2005 by GREGNOW]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
Odium, you are right about the drug thing and more should be done to stop it, but that does not mean that going to Afaganistan and doing what we did did not have to be done. We destroyed the talibans rule there the way it was and people there now have more freedom then they did before, ESPECIALLY women, who had like no rights at all and were treated like dogs and killed for almost anything.



Source
The report said the area in Afghanistan devoted to poppy cultivation last year set a new record of 206,700 hectares, more than triple the figure for 2003.

The Afghan narcotics situation, "represents an enormous threat to world stability, the report said.

It listed opium production at 4,950 metric tons, 17 times more than second place Myanmar.


But these new rights will not last long, the Iraqi Parliment is already thinking about removing certain women's rights and once the American Army is out of Afganistan the same thing will probably happen. The "Northern Alliance" are just as extream as the Taliban and now they are in charge of the drugs and thus the Nation.


Originally posted by GREGNOW
As far as drugs they should do more to stop them, but at the same time no one is forcing anyone to stick a crack pipe or heroin needle in their arm. That's a personla choice someone makes and i don't want to hear it has to do with poverty. Plenty of poor people do not go out and do drugs just because they are poor and on top of that if they are so poor, then where are they getting the money to buy the drugs? If they are stealing it, then again no one is forcing them to steal and no one is forcing them to do drugs, both of which all people in their right minds know is wrong.


Gregnow, I've been unlucky enough to live in this sort of area and enviroment. However, you paint a very one sided picture. I grew up (for 3 years) after my parents divorce in a very poor part of the United Kingdom, one where their is a high-rate of drug related crime and yes nobody forces anyone to take drugs. But when you have nothing in your life, no ability to get out of the trap you have fallen into a lot of people turn to drugs as an escape from this life.

I can only assume you've never lived in an area where Police raids and arrests are common due to your skin colour, where you are treated like a criminal by the Government and several Arms of the State due to your name, your family or origin - things out of your control. This only helps alienate people and in turn results in them doing such a crime - since for years they have already been judged as a criminal.

Greg, do you ever remember the Black Panther School Programs? Where they tried to do that. Get kids to go t College/University, to not have unprotected sex, to not take drugs and to not drink alcohol?

Anyone ever remember what happened to them?

Like it or not, people have tried to get minority groups to go through the education system, to stick with it however it tends to be a lot harder for them. Especially when several Arms of the State are so very racist, even now.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Thanks SKIPPY, another very simple post that tells the actual TRUTH. Right now the majority of american's life and liberites are in no way being affected by anything any different then the past.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 11:47 AM
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ODIUM, i have lived in Brooklyn for 5 years in an area where there are plenty of drugs and crime. I moved to NYC for the sole purpose of taking a job that paid some decent money. I then lost that job because of 911 and never got it back. I lived in Brooklyn for 3 years after 911 and got poorer and poorer and still did not choose to "do drugs".
before that i lived in PT. Richmond in Phila. with is lower middle class and plenty of drug activity. I worked as a private investigator making 11.00 an hour and even drove a cab to make ends meet and still did not do drugs (except maybe smoke pot which i no longer do).

I then moved back to Phila. from NYC since my very poor living conditions were going no where and i then did some thinking instead of doing drugs. I said to myself , i can complain about the fact that 911 cost me a great job and way of living in NYC or i can move on, not complain, not "do drugs" and do something that helps others/the community. i then went to EMT-B classes and i am now working as an EMT-B and going to school as to be an EMT-Paramedic in the same exact way above that i mentioned above which a lot of people can do. And even if you do not get reimbursment, anyone who is middle class or lower can get all the Fed. loans and grants to pay the whol 18,000.00 or most of it to cover their paramedic schooling.

Also i did not have any money after high school and i did not go to college. so i choose to go into the military.
Anyway the fact is that anyone can get a job at a fast food establishment (which i luckly did not have to do, but anyone can do this) and they can then go to EMT classes to better themselves and help others in a job that matters and has purpose. On top of that a lot of fast food establishment even offer tutituon reimbursement for their workers schooling. I don't know how that works, but even the Dunkin donuts in my neighborhood had a sign up that they provide tuition reimbursment if you work for them while you are in school. On top of that paramedic school is only a year to a year and a half (depending on where you go) so someone would not even have to work somewhere else for more then a year or year and a half.
so you know what the problem is , that there are ways out for the poor but they would rather do drugs then search for the possible ways out. Or they watch all these gansta rap viseos and then feel that is the way to get ahead by selling drugs and murdering others.
I will say that EMT-Paramedic school is a bit harder and takes some brains (which thank God he gave me), but EMT-basic, although not "easy" is also not "hard" and if someone really makes the effort to learn and pass the EMT-basic class, then they have a garunteed job and are helping other on top of that.
Only 10 out 27 students passed in my EMT-Basic classes. you know why? Becuase they did not apply themselves and take it serious enough. Truth is they all should have passed and could have if they applied themselves. most of the ones that did not were inner city types who made excuses instead on studing or would talk to each other while the instructer was teaching or they would not show up to classes. They'd come in with their uniforms pants hanging down past their a$$ and they just wanted an EMT-Basic certificate handed to them with no effort.
no one forces anyone to do drugs. It's laziness and to much of wanting to live a celebrity style life like they see on rapper videos by selling drugs and killing people.
They can also better themselves by taking the civil service exams and applying to fire and police academy's and there are plenty of affirmitve actions laws to help them out when police and fire are hiring, more then even white middle class people have.
And ANYONE can go into the military, so don't tell me there are not choices for the poor. I can see someone not wanting to go into the current military because of the way the Bush adminstartion is running it, but that has only been for the past 2 or 3 years since the current Iraq crap going on.
Before that any poor person could go into the military and make an effort to better themselves. They don't because they are lazy and would rather sell drugs or do drugs and complain that they can't do anything else and have no other choices, that is just plain B.S.



[edit on 31-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

[edit on 31-7-2005 by GREGNOW]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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Greg, if only that was the case.

If it is so, why do several friends of mine and family members in the U.S.A. who have degrees unable to find work?

America is and has been going down hill, economically and this is leading to more and more people being unable to find work which can pay for their house, etc.

Thus more people have to turn to crime to feed their family. Selling drugs is easy and a lot of drug dealers tend to also take drugs. It's a cycle because of poverty.

It's why nations with a better economic standing, tend to have lower levels of drug crime and related crime.

It's a simple fact that;
Poverty results in crime and drug addiction. Coupled with Americans poor legal system/Prison system which is only pumping out more criminals instead of solving the problem.

You also paint a very one sided picture of rap music.

You miss out the fact big business like Sony is promoting this life style but they won't promote the rap artists who speak out against drugs, alcohol, gang culture.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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The Constitution be damned!

They can pry my liberty from my cold dead hand!

I will die a free man!



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
"When do we get our Liberties back?"


I havent noticed I have lost any liberties. My life hasnt change one bit.


That's the sign of a well-executed secret search!


-koji K.



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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ODIUM the reasons; your friends with degrees can not find work is because they chose majors and have degrees that are not in demand. That was there choice. Or they may not be being hired because of their personalities. I also have friends with degrees that cvan not find work now or could not after college. It's hard to get a job when all you have is a liberal arts degree which so many have. I am an artist, but it does not pay the bills and neither is that liberal arts degree just because it's from a college.
There was a girl in my EMT class that had a 2 year business degree and could not find a job worth her time spent on getting that degree. So , she went to EMT class and then is going to EMT-Paramedic school. Her brother went to paramedic school at our school and then went o Atalntic City and is making 26.00 hour to start.
Mt sister went 4 years to arigultural college and never worked in her field of study. she is now going to nursing school which if you are middle class or lower can almost all be paid by Fed. loans and grants. There is such a demand for RN's in America that a lot of places will pay for your entire schooling if you sign on to work for them for 2 years after your out of school.
The truth is that an 18 yr. old going into college usually does not know what they want to do the rest of their entire life. It is said on average that people changes jobs up to times in their lives.
you can go to respitory therapy school and get a job making 30.00 an hour to start after school.
It is true that a lot of companies have had a lot of lay off's since 911, i already stated i was a victim of that in NYC. So what? do you cry about it or make new career plans so that you can live..
I never said this country was not in worse shape then it has been before, but that's life and we still have our freedoms in this country and there are still options. So a person can cry that they can't get a job because they have a degree that is not in demand or they can make the choice to get a skill that is in demand. That's life and no one is forcing anyone to take drugs or be lazy. What is stopping your friends from going to nursing school or paramedic school or a bunch of other medical related jobs in america that are in HIGH demand and will be for a very long time. what is stopping them from becoming police or firemen?
They may not be able to find the exact jobs they want, but then the majority of americans do not work at the exact jobs they want and never have. I'd like to be a rock star or movie star or a job that makes me over 100,00.00 a year but you know wht it probably will never happen. with college degrees, if they really want to find "jobs" , they can find them.
If illegal aliens are coming here from Mexico and finding jobs, then college educated people can sure as heck find jobs and better ones then the Illegal Mexicans are working.



[edit on 31-7-2005 by GREGNOW]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:18 PM
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SHADOWHASNOSOURCE, and if you died today you'd die with the same exact freedoms you have always had, so what's your point other then blowing hot air over something that does not exist?



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by GREGNOW
YOU are the one that is "scared" of things that are not even happening yet and may never happen, but you act like they are. You are "scared" and paranoid to boot.
[edit on 31-7-2005 by GREGNOW]


Every point I make you try to mimmick. Sad.
Greg I am very well protected (Yes guns), and I stand firm in my spiritual beliefs, which together have always given me my sense of freedom and security.

I mean people on this thread talk about sleeping with their doors locked! I laugh inside. I have NEVER locked my doors, and I have never been robbed. I do not live in the fear of loss of property, loss of life, loss of anything. I do not live in a "nice" neighborhood either.

I know a man who had a 1 inch thick pole shoved four inches into his head, and lived! Then I have seen friends bust a fifteen step handrail, only to run right into ongoing traffic, with TWO watchers, INSTANTLY DEAD! IMO-When it is my time to go it is my time to go, and NOTHING will EVER change that (yes I even realize this means my guns).


I am not paranoid either. I do take certain precautions to ensure my survival, but that does not interfere with my studies, work, travel, nor life in general. I have seen the rampant disreguard for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by many different law enforcement agencies. I have learned to take certain precautions for very good reasons. I have several brothers in Jail on trumped up charges, or dead directly stemming from their non-violent, peaceful , constitutionally protected, right to protest . If I come across as paranoid to the likes of you, then so be it.

Do I think that the "cattle cars" are coming tomorrow? No! Do I expect you as an "American", who is not even familiar with his bill of rights, his constitution, to be aware of certain executive orders which outline just that? No! Besides it was said half jokingly.

Another thing I have noticed. You seem to flip whenever I mention fear, or scare, or frightened. Understandable, you were in the military, probably the typical type, all brew-ha-ha. We all know you were in the military, we all know it takes balls to do it, quit trying to exert your self, please.

Let me try to clarify myself. There is a fear that most people do not ever deal with. It's not an overrwhelming sense of terror, or doom as most equate with fear. Hell most people do not even realize it as fear.

It is the constant concern for "what if". What if it happens again? What if someone wanted to drive onto my base, and detonate a bomb? What if my children were somehow affected? (you know, for kids?) What if our harbors, our ports were next? What if my house was robbed. What if my car was stolen.

We got to have a plan, we got to have some laws. Then we can make some drills. Most of all you get to go out and buy something to help protect you and your loved ones in case something happens. Now just IN CASE something happens, you know what to do right?

That is fear Gregg, and whether or not you are too "alpha male" to admit it, it is.



[edit on 31-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:31 PM
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PHENOIX, i already stated what i do for a living so i don't just sit at home on my computer as you put it. I find it funny though that you say this, has i stated yeasterday i am sick this weekend so at least i have an excuse, however YOU yourself were on your computer ALL day yesterday and now today posting back and forth with me.
As far as the links you put up. i did comment on them and i really do not see your points. I already stated that things like that have happened in demonstartions through out the history of this country and it was long before 911. so what's your point?
this thread started with someone crying that are "liberites" have been taken away because of 911 and something so stupid as stepped up bag searches which probabaly do not even affect anyone on this thread and really do not affect the majority of American's to begin with.
The truth is that no one has lost any freedoms that they have not always had in this country but you and other are crying like you have no freedmos now or somthing. Your pathetic.
Are there injustices that happen? of course, that clear in the links you have sent. But that has gone on forever here and there in this country long before 911, so it has nothing to do with this thread. The fact is that the increased bag searches you are all crying about has not changed any of you on this threads way of life in any way. And again your solution is that there should be no stepped up security at all. You make no sense.
News flash, we are not living under martial law and no one has changed your way of life, so just live it.
If it looks like they are goiung to pass laws that actually are going to impede on our freedoms in a REAL way, they that is the time to do something about it. Right now though you are complaining about things that don't even affect you or the majority of Americans. And that is just the simple truth that you can't accept, because you think you are on some kind of justice crusade that gives you purpose, yet right now there are no laws changing your life or freedom in any way that even matters.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by GREGNOW]



posted on Jul, 31 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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No PHOENIX, i am not mimicking your points and it's not sad. What's sad is that you can not see that not everyone agrees with you, like me and do not share your "points". One of your points is that you keep saying i am "scared". But it is YOU that is showing that you are scared that you think your freedoms are being taken away from you.
What exactly am I "scared" about? Please tell me? What am i scared about. I am glad, not scared. Glad that authorities are at least doing what little they can to try to prevent further attacks. That does not mean i am "scared" of further attacks. I think they are going to happen no matter waht and there is not much i can do about it anyway.
What would "scare" me is if no one was doing anything to try and prevent further attacks that could very well then affect my way of life in America (like it ACTULLY did to my life when i lived in NYC and 911 happened) as well as the freedoms that YOU think you don't have now but still actually do.
YOU ARE scared that you are losing your "freedoms" , you are clear on that from all your posts here.
So i am not "mimicking" anything and the only sad thing is that you can't underestand what i have here written above.

Also PHEONIX, you contradict your own point of fear and "what if" that you try to make. you say people have a fear of "what if" they bomb your base or whatever or what if someone robs your house.
Well YOU have the same fear. YOUR fear is "what if " the gov't makes stronger laws that actually do affect your way of life and freedom. Yet the gov't has not done this, so YOU live with a "what if" fear. i am not mimicking your points, just pointing the truth out in your points.
You are fixated on keep calling me "scared", so of course i am going to keep commenting on the whole "scared" thing. You make no sense.
also the only reason i kept bringing up that i was in the military, is because i brought up the fact about bases not even having checkoints before 911 and then you want to go and argue wuith me like i don't know what i am talking about. your insane. I was in the friggin army and no how it was on the base i was on in TX, so why did you then go and try to attack me like i don't know what i am talking about. you were'nt in the military and i was and i was there. Then you go and attack the "coragousness" of those like me that were snipers when you clearly no nothing about snipers and do not even know what the heck you are talking about, just so you can attack me. I then had to keep bringing up the fact of your ignorant comments like that one.

Also you say you have "several" brothers on trumped up charges. Come on already. I could see the possiblity of one brother but you say "several". so let me guess they are all innocnet and the police just felt like framing all of them or something.
What are the charges? Are they all in on different charges or were they brought in as a group?


[edit on 31-7-2005 by GREGNOW]




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