When do we get our Liberties back?

My point is that if the Gov't. is "so out to get you", why do they still let people buy firearms? If you are not a felon you can walk into any store buy a gun and use it on whoever you want, including those authorities that YOU think are trying to take away your "liberties". If they were really trying to take away your "liberties" , don't you think they make it harder to buy firearms? That was my point. Man, i have to say it again, but your ignorance amazes me.

Maybe if you say ignorance enough it will make your point more valid?.....NAH. As a matter of fact they have been making it harder and harder to buy firearms, for years now! Where have you been?

Also you say that "no law can take someones freedom away". Well if you actually do use the gun you buy on the authorities i garuntee you there are laws that are going take your freedom away if not your life in the electric chair. What are you talking about?

Of course their are consequences or "laws" for certain actions but that 1) does not stop me from performing those actions2) Does not force me to give myself over to the authorities. I am free to flee the law as well. Doesnt Freedom rule!

Also anyone who writes "HA, HA, HA, HA" to back up their points is kind of wacky. what are you the Joker now or something?
[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

That was the first thing in the sentence so how did it back anything up? That being said, perhaps I should just adopt your ignorant mantra, would that be a bit less wacky?

[edit on 30-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Yea, actually i would just like you to prove the examples mentioned. How in the worls did authorities detain "thousands" of people as you put it?
First off what do you define as "detained" ? Thousands of people can not just be let free to march through areas that affect others way of life trying to get around the city on their daily business. In effect the crowd you talk about would then be affecting the rights of the people not invovled in the demonstartion march.
Now, i lived in NYC for 5 years and after the attacks there were plenty of demonstrations and marches and there were no problems. Before the new Iraq war people were protesting in Union Sq. for weeks and no one was telling them they could not.
Also 14 year old kids being thrown into cars for no reason? Come on already, that's kidnapping. Do you yourself know why they were thrown in the cars or did you simply just see it? how do you know they were not selling drugs or stealing or something else?
Injustices do happen, i already stated that above, but it is not happening on mass levels. Also marches are good and fine but i have seen that they are rarely effective. Instead people need to ban together, write their congressmen and other state officials and demand action. but how many actually do this? Not many. I worked as an activist for 2 years and people act like they care in what you are saying and will give you money but they do not write to their officials like you tell them they must do. People are lazy and complain when they should be writing to their officials in mass amounts. Those officials can not stay in office if people do not vote for them and if the officials don't take action on letters being written by thousands of voters, then they are not going to be in office next time around plain and simple. i am talking about REAL things , not bags being searched more becuase it helps to tighten security which is fully needed.
The American people always have the power to change things, but they complain instead of banding togehter ans simply writing letters and making ohones calls and threatning not to vote for officails that do not answer them back.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

Actually it's only harder to buy guns in a few states (like NYC, where it is almost impossible to own a handgun, even in your own home from what i have been told). About 8 years ago they actually made it easier to buy guns in Phila., yet they made it illegal to buy stun guns, but you can go to a surronding county and buy a stun gun only 10 minutes away.
also me using the word ignorant is hardly wacky, it may be redundent but not wacky. but again using "HA, HA, HA, HA" to make your points is quite wacky, don't you think? Again you sound like the Joker or something (sorry Batman was on last night).

And MAGNITO, thanks again for a point that actually makes sense.





[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

If I had a scanner I could show you the picture that my wife took, as the DOJ (suspected) agent threw her to the ground. unfortunately I do not, I do plan on getting one soon though, stay tuned. As far as what the kid was doing no he was not stealing or selling drugs
He had stayed with us and was walking down the street at 2 PM when it happened.

As for forcibly detained. That particular incident was in London in 2001. People were afraid of a repeat of the previous years. Demonstrators were told that they were given the permission to march. The assigned time, and place was agreed.

I can not really say the march actually started, because they broke up the crowd fairly early, and forced them into Oxford . They maintained a tight barrier, around the crowd and detained them there for seven hours+. In the drizzle, in the cold. I got my wife home by telling an EMP that she was hypoglycemic after two hours. The nurse ordered the police to let her through, the cop would not let me go. I waited and they had already pegged me through surveillance, so I waited, and did not cause any problems until they stopped watching me. I then went to a different barricade and gave the same story (with added "weakness" I should of won an oscar)

You can read about some of it here.
www4.indymedia.org.uk...

You see those people tried to keep me somewhere. They did for a while, but I was only there for three hours and not 7+ like everyone else. As a matter of fact I text'd My wife and we met at the King James for some Thai, and watched the demonstrators on the TV. (hows that for solidarity)
[edited for additional info and correct link]

[edit on 30-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

[edit on 30-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

PHONIX, sorry i really should not keep calling you ignorant, it's just that you pissed me off with your soldier and sniper comments and miltary bases which were very ignorant, especially since i was a soldier and should know what is what to an extent when it comes to those things.
I just think that you and others are over reacting to the stepped up security measures that have to be in place now. they have to be there, something has to be there to send a message to terrorist's that they will not find it as easy to attack on our soil as they did on 911.
I do understand that if they make certain laws that are against the constitution that then they leave the door open to make even morte and possibly stronger laws that may actually indeed affect our freedoms. But they have not done that yet and they could have eaily done it by now especially right after 911, but they did not.
The little security laws that are there now HAVE to be there either way though, so unless they take it further and actully make laws that will affect the average masses of American citizens, then it's a waste of time to complain about it.
They have not done that and they may never do that and if they do then is the time to complain and take action. but right now they have only done little things in a samll effort to prevent future attacks, there is no real way around that, ity simply has to be done in the world we now live in and those little things are not really affecting anyones way of life or freedoms in any ways that really matter. Those littel laws are there to help maintain that way of life and so far no bridges have been crossed that are affecting peoples liberties in ways that matter.

Phoenix said : Maybe if you say ignorance enough it will make your point more valid?.....NAH. As a matter of fact they have been making it harder and harder to buy firearms, for years now! Where have you been?

You can still purchase a .50 cal sniper rifle. and with some know how you could probably make that puppy fullautomatic.

Off topic for a second: What I find strange is the amzing cutback the military is planning with base closures. I just read U.S. Army to Vacate 13 Bases in Germany www.guardian.co.uk...

We have many base closures being considered here at home. It almost seems they are disarming for something that military might cannot solve Almost like they are throwing their hands up in the air and saying F** it
I might be just letting my imagination get the better of me

PHEONIX, bringing up things that happened to you in London is moot. We are talking about America, american's liberties and the consitution which has nothing to do with how other countries choose to act on demonstrators.
i lived in England for a while myself. I found it strange how all the bars and clubs are closed at 11pm! It's a little different in London, but even there it's harder to get transportation after 11pm and alot of bars there are also closed at 11pm.
Everywhere else in England bars close at 11pm. now if that were America, people would be up in arms against it. None of this has anything to do with terror or security , it's just that all the bars close at 11pm as that is just the way it is over there.
My point is it's not our country and they have their own way of life (which i found pretty boring). However we still have it very good over here when it comes to our freedom to go about our lives the way we want.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

MAGNITO, actually the Willow Grove air base that i was bringing up in these post that i said was very easy to simply drive onto before 911, is a base that they also now have up to close down. People are protesting it saying that it will cost a lot of jobs and they are writing their officials, but bottom line is that it is military and the military will do what they want. It is a popular airforce base to see shows put on by the Blue Angels and the Canadian Snowbirds, other then that though i am not sure how much is really done at that base. Alot of the bases up for closure are bases that the military just feels they do not need anymore that they may have needed in the past.

Originally posted by GREGNOW
PHEONIX, bringing up things that happened to you in London is moot. We are talking about America and the consitution which has nothing to do with how other countries choose to act on demonstrators.

You asked about the mass detention. The abduction took place in L.A. Ca, Or is that not American enough for you?

PHEONIX, you are confusing me? First you say it happened in LONDON in 2001 and give a link that says it happened in London and now you are saying it happened in LA?

Maybe you were saying the kid was abducted in LA but you were not clear on that. From your post it sounds like it was all one incident that happened in london.

if the kid was abducted off the street, i hope it was by authorites as it seems you yourself do not even know who abducted him for sure. If it was authorites, they still need a valid reason to do it becuase if they did not have a reason it can be fought and the kids parents could sue the city. Authorites can not just abduct people because they are walking on the street. They may give a lame reason to justify it and that does not make it right, but they still need a reason of somekind.

As far as the mass detention you talk about , clearly you are talking about something that happened in London which has nothing to do with America and what we are talking about. There are cases of cops getting to rough and detaining people for lame reasons but that has been going on way before 911 and has nothing to do with 911. That just has to do with certain cops that want to be a$$holes. Just like their are certain bouncers in clubs that are a$$holes.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

I have more stories too from America. Would you like to hear about the time I saw a young lady get peppered sprayed in the eyes with a full can of pepperspray? Would you like to hear about how the cops held her eyes open so that they could spray more pepper spray in them. Would you even give a flyin F if that girl is blind now?

Oh wait you haven't seen it, it must not be happening. Sad fact is until they are on your door and try to take your house, you will not care one single bit.

www.copwatch.org...

You also never told me if you were familiar with the frog and a pot of water story. You are a frog, the pot is the globe, and the heat has been slowly turning up now for years.

Originally posted by GREGNOW
PHEONIX, you are confusing me? First you say it happened in LONDON in 2001 and give a link that says it happened in London and now you are saying it happened in LA?

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

The Mass detention was in LONDON, 2001.

The Child being abducted by DOJ (department of justice, suspected) happened at LA DNC, 2000.

[edited for clalrification that DOJ was suspected]

[edit on 30-7-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Again PHEONIX, you are overreacting. The cops have no reason to come to my door and have no reason to come the the majority of American's doors. Where is your point other then it is you that seems scared and paranoid that they are coming to get you just because they have stepped up security by searching more bags in certain cities.
do i care about the girl with pepper spray? I'd have to sat yes as i stated before i am an EMT and would be one of the people that would be called to help her. Although if that did happen where they actually held her eyes open to spray more in for no good reason and you and others were a witness to it, then those cops would be fired if you are went to an attorny to prosocute the cops. so i have to ask YOU, did you actually care about that girl? Did you take any action with her to fire those cops and sue the city? If she was not resisting arrest, then why did they go and force her eyes open to spray more pepper spray into here eyes? And if that is the way it wnet down and you and others saw it, then why did you not do anything about it or did you? Or are you not telling the whole story to make your point more valid?
also if you are talking about the link you sent about the police blinding a woman, it had nothing to do with pepper spray. it says she was hit by a rubber bullet in the eye. Did you even read the article you posted or are you talking about a different case altogether. you need to be a bit more clear here.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

Also you keep saying the kid was abducted by "suspected" DOJ? It seems you don't even know who abducted the kid and why? If you were watching it, then why did you not step in to the kids defense since you do not even know who is abducting the kid. God forbid it was a sex offender and you did nothing about it. There seems to be holes in your story here. also if it was the DOJ, why are they wasting their time and manpower abducting a 14 year old kid of all people. That does not even make sense. also you say it happened in 2000 which means it was before the 911 attacks and would have nothing to do with the current stepped up security laws (which again are not affecting anyones liberities in any real way).

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

GREGNOW, unlike phoenix, I will not entertain you.

As far as I am concerned everything that the government is currently doing goes against the Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the "United States", or should we now call it the constitution of the "Federal Government". Anybody that takes all this information with a passe attitude should not have the right to be a US citizen. I guess ignorance is bliss. It doesnt effect me so I dont care attitudes enrage me. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, I know the truth.

Please my friends dont be frustrated by ignorance. Keep spreading the word. Just last night in the bathroom of a movie theatre at the urinal, I saw encouraging words written on a tiny spot on the wall in front of me.

"Think for yourself, it isnt illegal yet" Author unknown

The war on terror is a perfect war. If you can understand that then we have a chance.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by gottr]

I love when people say searching will not stop any bombings... then what do you expect to do? Let every person on any transportation service without being searched at all? That's just nonsense. So you get searched at Airports, I'm all for it. Anything that helps me get to my destination without blowing up in mid-air.

I love when people say searching will not stop any bombings... then what do you expect to do? Let every person on any transportation service without being searched at all?

Um....that has what has been going on for years, no search. Hasnt been a reason to, there still isnt, and there never will be. Regardless of what you say, it imposes on my freedom and that is unconstitutional.

ok, GOTTR, keep complaining that "they" are affecting your way of life. What have they changed in the constitution that is affecting your freedom and jepordizing your way of life. Please educate me on what exactly has been changed in the consitiution that is now taking away the freedom of Americans.
The samll things that have been done are to help prevent further attacks. Are you that much of a paranoid fool? What you are saying is that after 911 nothing should be done at all to make it harder for terrorist to attack us on our own soil. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
Quick, get your guns the gov't is at your doorstep now and coming to get you, woooooo.
are you people so blind that you can not see the new type of world we are living in? That certain preventive action need to be taken and those that are being taken are not affecting your freedoms in anyway?
No, you'd rather there be no new security measures and we go back to the lax state we were in before 911, that is until yoor wife or kids are killed in an attack, then you'd be the first to be crying that no stepped up security measures were in place to possibly stop the attack.
actually you are entertaining me or i would not have been on this thread for long today. i feel like a loser for being on here for so long, but i am enjoying myself and all the paranoia being displayed here.
People are justfied in coplaining that the bush admistration sucks and should not have gone to war with Iraq the way it did. But either way the 911 attacks happened long before that and securtiy needs to be stepped up either way. Especially after what just happened in London. What, do you think it can not happen here again? Are you that naive?
GOTTR, then you say there is no reason to search more on certain mass transit in certain cities. What are you crazy? The reason is that it sends a message to terrorist's that they can not just walk onto the NYC subway with a bomb because there is at least a chance there that they might wqell be searched on or even before they get on the subway.
Again this is not even happening most places, so what are you even complaining about? Do you even live in NYC and take the subway there everyday? If not, then what are you complaining about and who is interfering with your freedom. Stop crying already.
GOTTR, have you even ever had your bags searched EVER (other then in an airport)? I have to say you never have , nor has anyone on this thread (other then in an airport which is common sense that it is needed). What in the world are you even crying about? Get a real purpose and start helping your community in some way and make a difference for real. Your probably to lazy for that though and would rather complain about your freedoms being taken away that is'nt even happening.
If it actually does happen, complain then. Right now all you are doing is blowing off paranoid hot air.


[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

i feel like a loser

I cant believe I am going to say this, but I agree with you. Because you should...

ok GOTTR, good comeback there, you should be proud. Get real.
oh wait, the gov't. is at your door and they want to go through your house and check your bags, wooooooo. Go enjoy your life and the freedom you have in this country, will you? do you actually do that or do you just complain that you have no freedom to do what you want. Stop making me laugh. Go to a resturant, or a movie or have a cook out or drive your car anywhere you want or drink all you want (but don't drive) or throw a ball with your sons or take your wife dancing.
God forbid you actually lived in a country where you actually don't have any freedom to even do those things.
Also the truth is i am sick today so i have nothing better to do then be on this site. Until Law and Order SVU reruns come on USA channel then i have to leave this site, sorry.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by GREGNOW]