Islam is the Problem

People please.... ANYONE who blows himself up for ANY cause is doing a POLITICAL statement, not a religious one !

That's what's bothering me so much, a few nutcases that get deluded trought religious reasons( obviously for political goals) and all muslims get condemned.

I don't form my view of christinaity from the reports about pedophile priest in the States right ?


It's political abuse of religious fanatisism in any form that's the problem, on both sides.







[edit on 27-7-2005 by XyZeR]

Originally posted by Riwka




How it comes that to this day no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden?!?

Almost every major muslim body has condemned terrorism and the fact that MAJORITY of Muslims are not in any way involved in terror says that most muslims do not support Bin Laden.

Also on planet Earth we have these things called the court, laws, sentences and law enforcement agencies. They are actually responisble for punishing people.
Egyptian goverment sentenced the actual mastermind of Al-qaeda, Zawahiri, to death back in 1999 (BEFORE the attacks on WTC, meaning they already knew back then who he was; the War on Terrror, as I said, didnt start with 9/11). If he is ever captured he will be executed.
How is that for condemnation of terror?

Originally posted by XyZeR
People please.... ANYONE who blows himself up for ANY cause is doing a POLITICAL statement, not a religious one !

That's what's bothering me so much, a few nutcases that get deluded trought religious reasons( obviously for political goals) and all muslims get condemned.

I don't form my view of christinaity from the reports about pedophile priest in the States right ?


It's political abuse of religious fanatisism in any form that's the problem, on both sides.







[edit on 27-7-2005 by XyZeR]

Voted you for WATS. Couldn't have put it any better myself.

Originally posted by paperclip

Originally posted by Riwka




How it comes that to this day no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden?!?

Almost every major muslim body has condemned terrorism

but...that is NO answer to my question.

WHY have they NOT issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden?!?

And next question:

Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, the general manager of Al-Arabiya said: "It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims."

International efforts to write a global anti-terror treaty have been at an impasse since 1996, bogged down in the United Nations legal committee as member states wrangle over the definition of terrorism. Western countries sought a definition which would make it clear that none of the 191 UN member countries could endorse or condone attacks on civilians or non-combatants.

But....Islamic countries began to demand compromises....... huh?

.......How do Islam defines "terrorism"?

Originally posted by paperclip

Egyptian goverment

Egyptian Parliament Member Praises Killing Americans

On July 17, 2005, on Egypt's Dream TV, Egyptian MP Hamadein Sabahi and Abd Al-Rahim Ali, a journalist and expert on Islamist movements discussed issues such as Iraq, killing American soilders, and Osama bin Laden. [....]

MEMRI Special Dispatch Series - No. 944 - July 27, 2005


Rebekka



[edit on 27-7-2005 by Riwka]

In case some of you people werent paying attention the bombing in Egypt killed mostly muslims. Why? Well ill tell you...
The "moderate" muslims (normal people like you and me) are targets just as much as everybody else...they are considered traitors of Islam by these lunatics....they let infidels on the muslim land, they serve tourists alcohol, western food....etc. Mubaraks government is pretty "westernized" by their standards, you know.

And now you also know, why they kill civilians in Iraq.....if you are not with them, you are against them....hmmmm, where have i heard that before...

Ok and another thing....many people ask questions like "why are muslims not doing this or that to resolve the situation?"....
The answer requires some knowledge of muslims and how they deal with THEIR dirty laundry.....the do not wash their laundry in public, like westeners do...its a simple case of how you were brought up...you can be sure that muslim clerics are well aware, and have been aware of the problems, but they do not feel comfortable discussing this in public....i would say its a case of "so far so good, so far so good.....". Sufficient to say, they do not have control over the terrorists, if they would publically scream against them, they would get killed pretty fast, be sure of that.

Turkey is a good example of what im talking about....a woman goes on TV and talks about how she was getting beat up by her husband, only to get shot by her son when she got back home....why? becouse of the SHAME

Terrorism is shamefull for a true beliver. Muslims are known as proud warriors, always have been, take a sword and go against the tank....ou yeah, you better recognize

Also, muhamed is not the only prophet in Islam. Muslims that follow Ismail are much more violent i think, but im not an expert on the subject.

Someone buy maximus a ticket to afganistan please, it friggin scares me that a person can be so shallow, yet so arrogant...

cheers

Originally posted by nukunuku
Ok and another thing....many people ask questions like "why are muslims not doing this or that to resolve the situation?".... The answer requires some knowledge of muslims and how they deal with THEIR dirty laundry.....the do not wash their laundry in public, like westeners do...its a
simple case of how you were brought up...you can be sure that muslim clerics are well aware, and have been aware of the problems, but they do not feel comfortable discussing this in public....i would say its a case of "so far so good, so far so good.....". Sufficient to say, they do not have control over the terrorists, if they would publically scream against them, they would get killed pretty fast, be sure of that.

There is no such thing as a muslim way of washing dirty laundry. I think I know that much! They do it the same way as any other guy next door. So why havent they done anything? No, its not because they dont have control over the terrorists, Its because they are scared themselves. Who wouldnt be scared of loonies killing anything who questions them. No one wants to die. And they feel very comfortable discussing a lot of things in public. So, my point is, they're not publically screaming not cuz they dont have control of the situation, but because they are scared just like any other human being.

Turkey is a good example of what im talking about....a woman goes on TV and talks about how she was getting beat up by her husband, only to get shot by her son when she got back home....why? becouse of the SHAME

If not the son, the husband wouldve. She strayed away from the role of being a "good passive woman" Thats not acceptable. She was looking for fame rather than justice me thinks anyways.

Originally posted by I_s_i_s

There is no such thing as a muslim way of washing dirty laundry. I think I know that much! They do it the same way as any other guy next door. So why havent they done anything? No, its not because they dont have control over the terrorists, Its because they are scared themselves. Who wouldnt be scared of loonies killing anything who questions them. No one wants to die. And they feel very comfortable discussing a lot of things in public. So, my point is, they're not publically screaming not cuz they dont have control of the situation, but because they are scared just like any other human being.

They wash the laundry behind closed doors, much more than the west.
But you are right of course, they are scared as much as the next guy....probably more so becouse right now they are bombarded from all sides....if the terrorists are not after them, then its some freaked out westeners that think its all about Islam.

peace

Islam is NOT the problem. The problem is the way its interpreted, much like the bible it is interpreted diffrently by diffrent people.

Islam dosent preach hate, hate is preached from Islam. The fanatics are the problem in anything.

Whats wrong with us as americans? Why must we blame a whole culture when there is trouble or cunfusion? Why are we always passing the buck?

Maybe we are whats wrong, why must we have to be in everything? We are not God and god dosent protect us as a country. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks We as americans are right, and have the right to tell others how to live.

Originally posted by Riwka
How it comes that to this day no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden?!?

They have, but you like many others in this thread only repeat and promote one side of an issue. Many of you are blind to the facts, make no attempts to research history and include all aspects, study cultures or inform yourselves, you just make blanket statements, there is no blanket in the world big enough to cover everyone. Stop generalizing, Imo when you fail to rise above the level discord created by the terrorists, you are no better than them.

Muslims issue fatwa against bin Laden
Fatwa Issued Against Usama
Bin Laden's violence is a heresy against Islam


Islam is not the problem, it's ignorant, closeminded, extremist individuals that are the problem. We label those people terrorists, but sometimes the line between the terrorist and the propagandists...well there's not much difference.

If you people really cared to educate yourselves, you would read a whole lot more, start with the religion threads in which the differences of islam and christianity are rehashed over and over again and maybe you'll finally realize that the two are very similar, both religious books contain messages that modern followers wouldn't dream of following, but yet there are always a few on each side, who take the religion to the extreme.

[edit on 7-27-2005 by worldwatcher]

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
Whats wrong with us as americans? Why must we blame a whole culture when there is trouble or cunfusion? Why are we always passing the buck?

Maybe we are whats wrong, why must we have to be in everything? We are not God and god dosent protect us as a country. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks We as americans are right, and have the right to tell others how to live.

Nothing is wrong with us Americans.

We are not in "everything", but we do get involved when our personal safety is on the line and we do have the right to go after a "death-cult" that has attacked us again and again. Islam threatens not only America, but all other moderate countries and religions as well.

Even Liberals in Europe are waking up to this reality.

Radical Islam is abit like a bad neighbor (Islamic countries) who raise pit-bulls to kill ......once he cannot control them, he tosses them over the fence into his neighbors yard and laughs at the chaos his little monsters (suicide bombers) are causing. Well before long, after his little Monsters get killed, that neighbor (Western Nations) are gonna show up at his front door with a shotgun...and thats EXACTLY whats happening right now.

I hope I made it simple enough for you.


Maximu§

Originally posted by LA_Maximus

Nothing is wrong with us Americans.

We are not in "everything", but we do get involved when our personal safety is on the line and we do have the right to go after a "death-cult" that has attacked us again and again. Islam threatens not only America, but all other moderate countries and religions as well.

Even Liberals in Europe are waking up to this reality.

Radical Islam is abit like a bad neighbor (Islamic countries) who raise pit-bulls to kill ......once he cannot control them, he tosses them over the fence into his neighbors yard and laughs at the chaos his little monsters (suicide bombers) are causing. Well before long, after his little Monsters get killed, that neighbor (Western Nations) are gonna show up at his front door with a shotgun...and thats EXACTLY whats happening right now.

I hope I made it simple enough for you.

Maximu§

Except for the fact that the Loose Pitbull (Osama) was raised and set loose by us and we went to the neighbors with a shotgun killing their family because Bush said they were breeding Poodles dressed up as Pit Bulls when he knew very well that there was not even a gerble in the place.

Hope that is simple enough for ya.

You missed the point its not Islam as a whole, its a group of maybe a million fanatics that see it how they want.


Maybe if you make it alittle more simple, You will see.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus


Radical Islam is abit like a bad neighbor (Islamic countries) who raise pit-bulls to kill ......once he cannot control them, he tosses them over the fence into his neighbors yard and laughs at the chaos his little monsters (suicide bombers) are causing. Well before long, after his little Monsters get killed, that neighbor (Western Nations) are gonna show up at his front door with a shotgun...and thats EXACTLY whats happening right now.

I hope I made it simple enough for you.


Maximu§

You seriously have to work on your metaphors. This one is craptacular.

well politics can cause many troubles always, politicians can start a war blame it on any thing, and still get away remember the nazi they blamed the jews for every thing now that, some extremist rulers of there respected nations want murderd whole of mideast just to satisfy the israeli's.

what can you do.

NOTHING!!!

and when this race attacks back like in a response of its dead.

then the politicians blame it on the military eg how abu-griabe whilst the orders came from politicians to attack the prisonners like that.,

being a soldier and then get blamed and lied upon and suffer from the media " military does not start wars the politicians do and the military fights the wars of the politicians" and if race murderd then dont say that the american or any other nation who participated in this war are the murders of the muslims, they the politicians who then just use the media power to divert the attention of the world blame it on others.


ISLAM is not the problem,.,.
No way.

Originally posted by worldwatcher

Originally posted by Riwka
How it comes that to this day no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden?!?

They have,

THEY?

NO.

Spain did it in March 2005.

One single country - on the eve of the anniversary of the Madrid attacts, 3 and a half year after 9-11. Indeed, that is verry fast.

Dos Spain have a major Muslim cleric or religious body?

Spain is a 1 million-member Muslim community. Is this fatwa binding worldwide? NO
How many Muslims are there, worldwide, WW? 1 billion? 1.5 billion?
What about their major Muslim clerics or religious bodys?
Silence - Not one fatwa to this day. The Muslim village has been derelict in condemning the madness of jihadist attacks.

Originally posted by worldwatcher

messages that modern followers wouldn't dream of following, but yet there are always a few on each side, who take the religion to the extreme.

The Muslim world has a jihadist death cult in its midst and they have to face it.

In Jordan, King Abdullah II hosted an conference in Amman for moderate Muslim thinkers and clerics who want to take back their faith from those who have tried to hijack it.

But this has to go further and wider.


BTW: This topic has a biased headline.
It reminds me of "The Jews are our problem"


[edit on 27-7-2005 by Riwka]

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Nothing is wrong with us Americans.

That is a pretty typical answer.
"Nothing is work with me, what's your problem?"

If that is the sole method of foreign policy, don't you think that has some consequences? That is the the belief that Americans carry around the world with them, then when they are called "ignorant" of others or world issues...the typical attitude is "what's your problem" and "we have the bombs."

Normally, I am very supportive of America as a whole but the "nothing is wrong with me" mentality is a dangerous place.

Radical Islam is abit like a bad neighbor (Islamic countries) who raise pit-bulls to kill ......once he cannot control them, he tosses them over the fence into his neighbors yard and laughs at the chaos his little monsters (suicide bombers) are causing. Well before long, after his little Monsters get killed, that neighbor (Western Nations) are gonna show up at his front door with a shotgun...and thats EXACTLY whats happening right now.

I hope I made it simple enough for you.

Hmmmm, as for the analogy...more like a whole neighborhood. Many houses are Western and many are not. ONE NEIGHBOR is radical and has pit bulls (or whatever) yet you are advocating destroying half the neighborhood because in your singular view...since they live close to each other, they must belive the same. They must support the radical neighbor.

They don't.

You are lumping Islam in a big pot which is EXACTLY what the radicals do by lumping Western belief into a big pot. So in the end...you are no different than those that you hate, just that you think "we have no problem."

Religion is the problem.

a pulpit for the charlatan
legitimised extortion
a justification for genocide
a charter for poverty
a crutch for the weak
an excuse for inhumanity

Islam, misused I'm sure, doesn't seem able to protect its own religion from being usurped. Where are the lists of suspected young men / Imams from the muslim community?

Seems to me UK muslims have to make a choice and decide where they stand - so far no clear action from them, just silence, empty words of condemnantion and the usual pathetic bleat about 'fellow muslims' being the justification for murder. (BTW 2 million UK citizens marched against the war, there are 2.4M muslims in the UK - on the march only 10-15% of people were 'dark'. If Iraq's such a cause where the hell were they?

Personally I think we should incorporate the DNA of the 4 bombers into a public urinal so their souls/chakras etc can, every day, appreciate what we think of them (a bit like the memorial to the Japanese troops who died brutalising UK / Dutch POW's @ Kanchanaburi in Thailand! Always stop for a pee when in town )


Irt's time the UK built a secular society with no room for myths, fairy-stories and twisted, twisted words. Unfortunately happy-clappy Blair can't bring himself to consider drastic action; banning all faith schools, outlawing covered faces on women etc etc.

Our PM's faith prevents him seeing the big picture and taking appropriate action - strange how he kept it quiet while the election was on!

Disestablish Now!

FEAR is the PROBLEM.

October 27, 2004, the BBC aired one of its documentaries in the Fear series. This episode was titled The Power of Nightmares.

September 11, the BBC noted, became the opportunity for the neo-cons to create a new enemy to replace the now defunct Soviet Union. In effect then, they made out Bin Laden's failing movement to be a serious revolutionary organization. Ironically, the BBC also pointed out, this was the same image Bin Laden seemed to dream of aspiring to.

Fear, used by Islamic extremists on Muslim people throughout the Middle East, could once again be used, as the BBC ended. This time it would be used by the neo-conservatives upon American citizens in order to gather support for what used to be considered an extremist ideology, even by many conservatives. All this would now fall under the banner of a war on terror.

Yet, a cycle of violence is what should also be feared. Fear may be used to rally support for more extreme measures both upon citizens of America, and upon people of other countries. Yet, using fear in such a way may fuel harsh reactions, leading to further harsh retaliations, and so on. Once again ordinary citizens may suffer the most.

Thats whats War on Terror is All About - Spreading FEAR.

And making people Afraid of the Muslim Populaton, so Afraid that they start to HATE them.

If something is not Clear how the Circle of Fear goes I suggest Reading the Following Quote by Yoda the Jedi Master:

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

"Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate."
— Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just a little reminder Zed, we were attacked on 9/11 by the forces of Islam.

We did Nothing to provoke that attack and many over-seas Muslims cheered as our beautiful twin towers came crashing down...burying thousands of innocents in the rubble.

So, I repeat...Nothing is wrong with America, but theres plenty wrong with the Arab world. They have givin nothing to the world in the last 700 years except hatred, Jihad, war and Lies.

You and others in here are the ones confused...not me. I see clearly who my enemy is and they look just like this:

They have the same names, same religion and the same faces as the bombers in Europe and the rest of the world........co-incidence? I think not.

Maximu§

[edit on 123131p://333 by LA_Maximus]