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Islam is the Problem

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posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus


I wish I could say the same about Islam. Almost every Muslim Ive met while visiting Europe and Canada ether "understands" what drives suicide bombers to kill innocents or openly supports them.



Maximu§





Are we supposed to believe you now? Seriously? Come on, dude. You run out of arguments so you do the old "I know this guy who exactly confirms my theory" routine.

You gotta give me more then that.




Their out to kill us Zed.....I feel our western society is much like an abused housewife hoping her Jerk husband will change, but in reality the next beating is right around the corner.


I'd like to slightly modify your metaphor. I'd say that normal, tolerant, peace-loving people in all countries are like an abused wife. We keep hoping our "husband" (racists, bigots, neo-nazis, religious extremists, little Hitlers, dictators) will change, but he just keeps smacking us.
Luckily the "wife" is getting fatter every day, and the "husband" thinner, so one day the wife will just sit on his sorry ass and squeeze the life out of that bastard.

If you understand my metaphor....





posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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The United States fights for what they believe in doesnt it. I mean they believed suddam hussein needed to be taken out of power didnt they. So they did something about it. Noone questions that, right? They wanted the Iraqis back on the usd right? So they did something about it. They wanted the Iraqi oil didnt they? So they did something about it. And they ultimately succeeded. They fought and bullied there way to what they wanted. Which brings me to my point.

Red, Purple, Islam, fat, short, ahfgan, russian, brazilian, skinny, ugly, blue, pink, it doesnt matter who you are, if you believe in something your gonna fight for it. Period. And that is what these people are doing, they are no different than anyone else. They fight the only way they can and know how to do. They(islamic rebels or whatever you want to call them)fight with sneak attacks and such. Im sure if they had the firepower the U.S. or Russia did, they would use it without a doubt, but they dont. What do you expect them to line up in a field and go toe to toe with the U.S. and its allies. Yah i didnt think so. You would do the same. Now im not condoning these actions one bit. And i did and do and never will condone any action of war unless it is self defense. and that is what Iraq did, they defended themselves from attack from U.S. and its allies. but that is a totally different story. But as far as the Islamic nation goes. That is how they know to fight. That is their military if you think about it. So called rebels running around making pipe bombs and suitcase bombs and chit like that. They are not as advanced as most societies. So they use what they have. So please quit the bochitt of trying to seek out islmamic people and thirst for their demise. Since they eat, sleep and chit just like you. Every country has it's whack jobs. It wouldnt be earth if it didnt.



DTA:
______________________________________________________



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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But this is very far from saying that Israel and the United States, and their intellectual flacks, have not played a combative, even incendiary role in stigmatizing and heaping invidious abuse on an abstraction called "Islam," deliberately in order to stir up feelings of anger and fear about Islam among Americans and Europeans, who are also enjoined to see in Israel a secular, liberal alternative.

www.thenation.com...



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:37 PM
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I was wondering when one of our "Other" bigots was going to blame those nasty old jews



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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I think the problem is religious extremists are more similar than they think. So quick to label the other evil and use it to justify whatever they do against "them" but hey what's new? The fight against extremists must be waged on all extremists if we are to heal the wounds of those who would otherwise be friends if it was not for those wanting to pit us against each other.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
I was wondering when one of our "Other" bigots was going to blame those nasty old jews


I'm sorry Amuk, but Israeli goverment is just as messed up as everybody else. It has nothing to do with them being Jews. There is a simple reason for that: they are humans too.
So that means, their DNA also contains predispositions for murder, evil, stealing, mental illness, serial killers, etc, etc.
Lets not go down the road of branding a religion as a Collective with predetermined attributes which go for every single member of that Collective without exception.

Jew is one thing, corrupted Mossad agent, israeli company bidding for oil, or corrupted govement official involved in sex slave ring is something UTTERLY different.

We should treat everyone the same. If we can question French, Saudi, USA, UK, Russian goverment, motives, companies, religion, we can question Israel too.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by paperclip
I'm sorry Amuk, but Israeli goverment is just as messed up as everybody else.



Agreed but how is claiming them and the US are to blame for EVERYTHING any less stupid then claiming all Muslims are to fault?



We should treat everyone the same. If we can question French, Saudi, USA, UK, Russian goverment, motives, companies, religion, we can question Israel too.


I agree again but that doesnt mean their is some big nosed jew hiding behind every bush secertly controling everything we do either anymore than every Muslim is a bomb throwing fanatic (none I have met were)



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
But this is very far from saying that Israel and the United States, and their intellectual flacks, have not played a combative, even incendiary role in stigmatizing and heaping invidious abuse on an abstraction called "Islam," deliberately in order to stir up feelings of anger and fear about Islam among Americans and Europeans, who are also enjoined to see in Israel a secular, liberal alternative.

www.thenation.com...



please bro, could you please type that in lamen terms, for i dont have to use the dicionairy on every other word you say. lol, i am a peasent who dont understand multiple big words



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk


Agreed but how is claiming them and the US are to blame for EVERYTHING any less stupid then claiming all Muslims are to fault?


Ahh, just a slight correction there. Blaming all muslims is like blaming all americans or all jews. Questioning GOVERMENTS is however different.
That is what I wanted to say.
If we look at the world, USA as the most powerful country IS involved in pretty much every conflict on Earth somehow, the question is how.
Same goes for Israel, France, UK, they have money, they have armies, they have power, they are in it somehow. Iraq is the best example of that.
Questioning them has nothing to do with hating people of that country.

I see what you are trying to say, you talk about blaming them for everything. I agree that you can't blame them for everything, but you CAN blame them for contributing at some point in time to development of certain situation, like supporting Saddam in the past, or CIA involvment in drug trade, or DynCorp shady business with human traficking.




I agree again but that doesnt mean their is some big nosed jew hiding behind every bush secertly controling everything we do either anymore than every Muslim is a bomb throwing fanatic (none I have met were)


I agree. But there are some who ARE controling things, using tragedies to their advantage, secretly selling arms to dubious countries, controlling the policy of certain newspapers and so on.
Not all of them are involved, just like not all muslims are terrorists, but SOME are and we cannot stop investigating that just because they are Jews. That doesn't make sense.

Anti-semite is someone who HATES ALL Jews. Someone who questions the motives of inteligence agency, or media company or goverment is NOT anti-semitic.
That difference is not clear to many people, even here on ATS, considering how many times the "anti-semite" comment gets thrown around here in various threads.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by paperclip
I see what you are trying to say, you talk about blaming them for everything. I agree that you can't blame them for everything, but you CAN blame them for contributing at some point in time to development of certain situation, like supporting Saddam in the past, or CIA involvement in drug trade, or DynCorp shady business with human traficking.


then I am sure you would have no problem in blaming some Muslims for contributing to the mess we have now? Those that preach suicide bombing is the way to god, those who practice slavery, are also involved in the drug trade, etc? To ignore the targeting of children just because the murderers were Muslim is JUST as ignorant as ignoring the fact Saddam was our buddy a few years back.

If the answer is yes we are on the same page.

aside from BS posts like this that are ONLY to incite hatred much like Souljahs posts, is it any more wrong to question Muslims then the Israelis, the USA, etc? How is the ignorance shown in this post and those of people like skippy ANY different then those of Souljahs, Syrian Sister, etc?

A bigot is a bigot no matter WHICH side of the sheet they are on. As long as we dont speak out against the idiots on OUR side too, we are just as bad as they are.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by RDavidson
Christian already destroyed American Indian civilization and almost destroyed Asian India civilization.


We Native Americans are still going strong, so please apply the word 'almost' to American Indian Civilization, too.

Resistance to Islamic terrorism is one thing American Indians and American Rednecks agree upon.

When radical Islam hit America, it hit Native America too. We don't want an Islamic invasion any more than we wanted a Christian invasion. So expect a very unfriendly response from All Americans. Black, yellow, red and white. In fact, expect the same response Hitler got: the offer of a free Arrow Shirt by airmail delivery.

Race has nothing to do with it. Ideology has everything to do with it. Islam is by definition an ideology of slavery, murder, hate, antifeminism and colonialism and until it changes we WILL be in its face on its home turf.

The Crusades were a RESPONSE to the unprovoked Islamic invasion of Europe.

Is this a defense of American culpability? No. The Americans themselves need to change. We all need to live within our means, in our own lands- without butchering each other.

As Chief Joseph told the American General Miles years ago when given a Bible:


It is a good book. You should live by it.


The Koran is not a good book. I have read it, and anyone that endorses it has openly declared war on me and my People.

It is time for Islam to find a new prophet to write a new holy book of peace and love.

Until then, do not expect Americans of any origin to go quietly into an Islamic night.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by Chakotay]



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 05:14 PM
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The biggest reason why people are so Islamaphobic or dislike Islam is because of 9/11 when every body woke up and thought why did this happen.

Now that everybody knows more about Islam where a few years ago people did not they have researched found out and realised its not as pretty and nice as people thought. It compliments the action of the reaction people got of 9/11. People see that there are fundimental connections to the religion to some of the terrorism around the world when the moderate Muslims were so quiet of what Islam taught.

Britain had many social problems when Muslims first arrived, they had to change policies in certain schools like Muslim girls were not allowed to go swimming or the dresscode was wrong. Crosses were taken down now prayers are taken away from assembly. A lot of this invoved teachers having protests by Muslims at their school because the schools were wrong. They also hate the influence of western culture in Islamic countries like having nighclubs, in fact a majority do like our culture but fundermentalist do'nt.

Now that people are aware of the history and certain teaching in the Koran it further drives people appart because we do not fit into their ideologies as they do'nt in ours hense the political changes and problems.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 05:25 PM
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Islam is by definition an ideology of slavery, murder, hate, antifeminism and colonialism


You could say the exact same thing about Christianity, going by it's history.



The Crusades were a RESPONSE to the unprovoked Islamic invasion of Europe.


Except the Islamic invasion of Europe came long after the First Crusade, which was in 1095. There had been Islamic incursions into the fringes of the Byzantine Empire in Asia Minor by that point, but that's about it. The Ottoman Empire didn't move into the Balkans until about 500 years later.

[edit on 7/26/05 by xmotex]



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Chakotay

When radical Islam hit America, it hit Native America too. We don't want an Islamic invasion any more than we wanted a Christian invasion. So expect a very unfriendly response from All Americans. Black, yellow, red and white. In fact, expect the same response Hitler got: the offer of a free Arrow Shirt by airmail delivery.

Race has nothing to do with it. Ideology has everything to do with it. Islam is by definition an ideology of slavery, murder, hate, antifeminism and colonialism and until it changes we WILL be in its face on its home turf.

The Crusades were a RESPONSE to the unprovoked Islamic invasion of Europe.

Is this a defense of American culpability? No. The Americans themselves need to change. We all need to live within our means, in our own lands- without butchering each other.


The Koran is not a good book. I have read it, and anyone that endorses it has openly declared war on me and my People.

It is time for Islam to find a new prophet to write a new holy book of peace and love.

Until then, do not expect Americans of any origin to go quietly into an
Islamic night.



You have voted Chakotay for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Right on my warrior friend! Except for a few of us in here, I thought I was alone.

Maximu§



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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I'm new to this particular thread and as such would like to re-visit, briefly and for my own purposes, the thread title.....

Islam is the Problem

djohnsto77.......you have been found guilty of leading!!!!

The problem to what? There lacks a qualifier in your statement and as such, can be construed as true to certain subjective interpretations and false by others........

Islam as a problem to the twenty-something woman who yearns for the freedom experienced by woman elsewhere in the world....

Islam as a problem for the man of whatever age who looked at the world and his reality through the strict religious lenses of Islam and was therefore unable to critically apply any of his learned knowledge because he was forced, by habit, to condemn an irrelevant notion, and thusly severely limited his personal options unwittingly.....

Islam as a problem to even the suicide bomber, who had to die for an ideal that he probably didn't fully understand....

Islam as a problem to the practitioners of every other religion in the world, because they are left to deal with the carnage and destruction of those who believe the teachings of Islam.....oh, hey.....is this where we find the implication of not only the title, but the article in question?

I understand, djohnsto77, that you were putting up a topic for discussion, but it is leading.....it's a hot topic in the world right now, but of the Islamic population there happen to exist a majority of peace loving people who just want to live life like everyone else......and they have problems with Islam as well....just like christians have problems with other christians.....

Let's also take a look at the source of the op/ed.......FaithFreedom.org......does anyone else see the irony of a website by that name condemning a religion?

I'm certain that it's been said before in this thread, but I'll say it again.....

Islam is not the problem.....the problem exists with individuals unsatisified with their lives and their interpretation of what other disgruntled people are preaching.

Though I will second that what Masked Avatar posted on the first page.....



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus

You have voted Chakotay for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Right on my warrior friend! Except for a few of us in here, I thought I was alone.

Maximu§


You like being a 'warrior' don't you?

Where would you be without an enemy?

You need Islam as your current excuse for war.

Without Islam you would be drumming up some other excuse.






posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Ive met too many good Black men to prejudge the whole race.


I've met too many good Muslim's to prejudge the whole religion.


Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I wish I could say the same about Islam. Almost every Muslim Ive met while visiting Europe and Canada ether "understands" what drives suicide bombers to kill innocents or openly supports them.


I understand, or like to believe I do of what drives a suicide bomber. Does that make me a terrorist or a supporter of suicide bombings. No. Does that mean I want western society destroyed? No. I love this country and would die for it, but I will be damned if I will join in on this kill all muslims they are all bad BS.

I haven't posted to ATS since last december or something like that and know I remember why. Ignorance is no longer denied here. I have noticed a lot of the new members that joined since the election have actually embraced ignorance rather than denied it.

The muslim religion and Arab people are not the enemy, ignorance is. No matter what society it comes from. And there is plenty of ignorance in the west.

Alot of the posts as well as this original post on this thread makes me sick.
. No wonder why this species has not grown at all in the last millenium.

Edit for spelling.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by jmilici]



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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If only our elected leaders could "understand" what drives suicide bombers to kill innocents, then we might begin to see some progress made in the so-called "War on Terror."

I find it incredible that someone who only meets Muslims abroad can have such a vehemently extreme view about them. Maybe we non-Muslim Americans should get to know the ones over here a little better before we can even contemplate judging a people of over 1 billion?

-koji K.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by koji_K]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 12:06 AM
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They deserve to be all put in one category, bc even if they arent extremist they arent speaking out against the terrorism as much as they should. Many of the "moderates" in Britain knew of the terrorist plot, or at least got the hint that the members might be planning something. Also even the muslims who havent had ANY sort of connection to the terrorists fail to proclaim against the terrorists. They keep a sort of "if i dont look or talk to them i shuold be fine and no one should categorize me with them", NO-! what they should do is be EXTREMELY OUTSPOKEN AGAINST IT to make sure no one makes the mistake of grouping the "good" muslims with the bad muslims.

[edit on 27-7-2005 by horten229v3]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by horten229v3
Many of the "moderates" in Britain knew of the terrorist plot, or at least got the hint that the members might be planning something.



In the smae way that conclusive evidence has been provided that there was foreknowledge on the part of key officials in the Bush administration regarding 9/11, can you front up with evidence of the "moderate" Moslems who knew about the London attacks in advance? Was this knowledge somehow restricted? How?







 
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