criss angel discussion...

copperfield never appears without elaborate stage and prop set ups; revolving stages, etc. he is a stage magician and cannot do street events and levitate like Criss. You have no examples of Copperfield doing an event even close to what Criss does: Close up, what you see is what you get.

Comparing them is totally improper. They are two different people doing different things. Ever see Copperfield do the events Criss does? No. No one else does. The reason? They can't. Nothing you say alters those hard and cold facts.

Too bad you cannot point to some concrete evidence that supports your belief instead of another diversion that ends up being a non-issue after all. Bad comparison.

OK, not sure if this has been posted up so I apologize if this is a double post.

This guy took a lot of time and effort in putting this together and I was pretty impressed by it.

Now lets see if I can get the linky to work.




[edit on 22-1-2008 by SilverSmith]

[edit on 22-1-2008 by SilverSmith]

i swear i already posted this in here but he works for a casino

so...

as long as his vegas casino shows make money they will put it out to set up "magic"

Did you read my post to you before the one where i mentioned Copperfield? I can't see where you answered my questions from the second part of the post...

Originally posted by eyewitness86
copperfield never appears without elaborate stage and prop set ups; revolving stages, etc. he is a stage magician and cannot do street events and levitate like Criss. You have no examples of Copperfield doing an event even close to what Criss does:

Actually, the things i compared are very close. Criss just improoved on them. And before Criss, Copperfield was the only one for a long time.

So if it took so long for someone to improove the same ilusions, why do you expect someone to do it right away this time?

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Close up, what you see is what you get.

Now you're just repeating words from the show...
You didn't tell me if Criss really saws himself in half, or if that is an illusion...

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Comparing them is totally improper. They are two different people doing different things. Ever see Copperfield do the events Criss does? No. No one else does. The reason? They can't. Nothing you say alters those hard and cold facts.

Let's say Criss really is levitating. This would mean human levitation is possible. It would also mean, others could eventually learn it and start preforming it.

So this particular argument of yours is completely worthless for prooving anything.

If it is done by props or by mystic vibrations, someone else is eventually gonna be able to do the same. So what are you trying to say?

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Too bad you cannot point to some concrete evidence that supports your belief instead of another diversion that ends up being a non-issue after all. Bad comparison.

Too bad you can not point to some concrete evidence, that supports your belief.

And too bad, that you ignore certain questions..

And especially too bad, that you don't seem to be capable of writing at least one post without an insult. And i thought i saw a change somewhere in the middle...


Again, did you even read my post before the one you were replying to here? I told you i don't believe anything. I'm just saying that you have no evidence. Just like you're saying that i don't.

And because of that, i'm also saying, that it is pointless to believe anything, unless it can be verified. The only thing we can do untill then is assign probabilities.

But you just have to believe. Hey, that's ok and i already said i understand.. I really do.

But why are you pretending to know everything?


P.S. Do i have to post my other questions again, or are you going to answer them?

Actually, human levitation has been documented several times in history, the most famous probably being the Home events ( see PaulRichards links for more info ) but in some cultures it is not too uncommon.

The western mind, being constricted by parameters designed to enhance a purely materialistic world view and to ignore the dimensional and spiritual realms, resist the phenomenon in ways that someone on the Indian subcontinent would find remarkably stubborn and uneducated.

You are correct when you say that others can, and will, learn to do what Criss is doing, and beyond, for sure. That days is coming. There are three popular people right now who are publicly using abilities that transcend the mundane: David Blaine, Cyril Takayama, and of course Criss Angel. These three are the only people currently using their abilities for public show and to make money. There are many otrhers no doubt, world wide, that can perform some mind boggling feats but do not do so in public and for whatever reason keep it private.

It is NOT such a big deal that Criss can levitate; the big deal is getting people top accept the fact that they are witnessing it themselves. They would prefer to believe that there are props so the challenge will not automatically accuse them : " If HE can do it, why can't I ?" Introspection is a friend we seldom welcome, isn't it? we do not want to contemplate what it means if man can fly...or hover at first. I believe that man was able and should be able to not only fly but to appear and disappear at will and transport themselves and objects anywhere at anytime desired. That was, I believe, the original plan for mankind: Unfettered access to the abilities of total human potantial.

One day levitation will be an Olympic event or as common as school kids playing hop scotch ( that ages me I know!!) Until then, I strive to open minds and shake up people into realizing that the emporer has no clothes, and what you see is what you get: criss levitates witrhout props and thats a fact.

reply to post by eyewitness86



Go up a few posts. Have you viewed the YouTube video I posted? Anyone?

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Comparing them is totally improper. They are two different people doing different things. Ever see Copperfield do the events Criss does? No. No one else does. The reason? They can't. Nothing you say alters those hard and cold facts.

Ummm how about this one.



and David's version



Sure looks that the same version of the saw, just performed differently

Originally posted by SilverSmith
Go up a few posts. Have you viewed the YouTube video I posted? Anyone?

Yes, in this one it is very obvious it was edited.

It seems this video was filmed towards the end of the day, so when they were filming the first clips, the sun was casting very long shadows and maybe just an hour later, the sun was gone.

The part where two clips show him from below is very interesting.
The sun is again different. There is a person walking below him in one, gone in the other (green boxes) but if you look to the right between the buildings in the clip, where this person is gone, you'll see a group of people there, not present in the clip with the person walking below Criss.

Also the landing is different. This must have been at least two preformances, edited together from the best parts of both, discarding the bad parts or mistakes.


So we know for sure this video was edited a lot.
So my question is.. Was the audience the same in both preformances?
Ilusionists don't like repeating an illusion twice.

If the same group of people are in both preformances, they must be working for him.

Not to mention, how small the group is. There are a few people on the roof in the clip with the sun and one person on the ground.
And in the clip without the sun, there is a small group of people on the ground.

Could even be the same group of people filmed twice, to create an impression of a larger audience...

[edit on 23/1/08 by deezee]

Originally posted by pavil
Ummm how about this one.
.
and David's version
.
Sure looks that the same version of the saw, just performed differently

Thanks for posting this!

This was what i meant.. At first i thought Criss' version was improoved, since David was in a box temporarily..
On the other hand, the camera doesn't flinch during David's entire procedure.

In the Criss' version, when he is mounted onto the table, the camera suddenly switches.
Whatever was done by David in the box, must have been done by Criss during this camera switch.

And this simple fact - that the camera switched - means that Criss' version might not even be all that improoved. If the camera was constantly on him, then this feat would have been very impressive indeed...


And i'm not saying the entire audience there was paid off. They could have just been distracted with the help of the employees and a few paid actors in the audience.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Actually, human levitation has been documented several times in history, the most famous probably being the Home events ( see PaulRichards links for more info ) but in some cultures it is not too uncommon.

Indeed it was.. And the longer ago, the easyer the people were to fool...

We know of many tricks, that were used by yogis back then and are stil in use today.. Like that Dutch guy "levitating" in front of white house on the edge of a stick... Very impressive indeed. People believed a lot of things back then.. So it's not hard to imagine how they were fooled by this.

And the rest could just as well be stories. Unless you have some proof.. In that case, show it to us.

Proove to me levitation is possible and i will be greatefull to you for the rest of my life.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The western mind, being constricted by parameters designed to enhance a purely materialistic world view and to ignore the dimensional and spiritual realms, resist the phenomenon in ways that someone on the Indian subcontinent would find remarkably stubborn and uneducated.

Yeah, i know you get a kick out of imagining how ignorant everyone but you is... That's how new age "spirituality" works...

Originally posted by eyewitness86
You are correct when you say that others can, and will, learn to do what Criss is doing, and beyond, for sure. That days is coming.

Then why were you using "No one else can do what Criss does" as proof he is levitating?

Originally posted by eyewitness86
It is NOT such a big deal that Criss can levitate; the big deal is getting people top accept the fact that they are witnessing it themselves.

Well, proove it to me. Show me. Levitate in front of me and let me do some tests. After that, i will apologize for being so stupid and if you wish, i will praise you and bow to you.
Then i'll start learning it myself.

It's gonna be great! So when can we start?

Originally posted by eyewitness86
They would prefer to believe that there are props so the challenge will not automatically accuse them : " If HE can do it, why can't I ?" Introspection is a friend we seldom welcome, isn't it?

Again, you're projecting.. You're very good at introspection, but you always project it on all the others..

Originally posted by eyewitness86
we do not want to contemplate what it means if man can fly...or hover at first.

That's just stupid.. How many times do i have to repeat to you, that i WANT to believe it is possible.. I just don't want my wishes to cloud my judgement.

Once something is prooven possible, it becomes incredibly easyer for others to achieve the same thing. So PLEASE proove to me that levitation IS possible.

If you think, believing it is the first step towards learning it, then learn it, and show it to me! Please do! Nothing would make me happier. NOTHING!

Originally posted by eyewitness86
I believe that man was able and should be able to not only fly

I used to believe it is possible as well.. But now i know why i used to believe that. And i also know, that many people claiming incredible things are either lying or are delusional. So many in fact, that they make it impossible to see if there is anything to it at all.

So i won't spend my life believing other people's lies or delusions. I will only believe what can be verified.

If it can't be verified, it is useless anyway.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
One day levitation will be an Olympic event

That would be great! I almost wish you were right.

But i rather doubt it...

Originally posted by eyewitness86
I strive to open minds and shake up people into realizing that the emporer has no clothes, and what you see is what you get: criss levitates witrhout props and thats a fact.

You compare spreading beliefs to opening minds...
At the same time you can't even imagine the possibility that you could be wrong..

That's not open mindedness. Again: Open mindedness means considering ALL possibilities, not just the ones you like!


Would you please answer my other questions from other posts, or are you ignoring them?

[edit on 23/1/08 by deezee]

if you could figure it out.. it wouldnt be entertainment.. hes an illusionists.. a magician.. a performer.. man.. oh man.. wake up.. duhhhhhhh

HIGH LEVITATIONS, NOT obvious illusions people. WHY do you deniers NEVER want to produce any evidence relating to levitations? It is always some other thing...saws and stage tricks. Criss can do BOTH!!!!

Copperfield can do only ONE !! Using anything but levitation and showing others doing it WITH props and how they could be made invisible is the main issue: Stick to it.

Originally posted by SilverSmith
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

Go up a few posts. Have you viewed the YouTube video I posted? Anyone?

Your video has been shown here before and it means NOTHING. it is all GUESS work and has NO substantive evidence whatsoever.

It is all MAYBE this and COULD be that...but NO proof of any kind..all conjecture, all supposition, all guesswork..as usual for deniers. It is an old teenaged attempt to try and figure out Criss event, but it fails terrible. NO evidence, all guesses.

CRiss's sawed in half trick was good but after watching David's I kinda prefer the theatrical aspect of it where the lights, fog and music really set the "mood".

Now if they had really sawed themselves in half there would be a lot of guts and gore.....funny how CA bleeds when doing his coin through the arm trick but has no blood at all when cut in half????????

Also, the video I posted up clearly shows tampered editing and while there is an audience how come you hardly ever see them in the shot?

Love the way he showed how and why CA has the pendulum sorta swing.

Originally posted by eyewitness86

Originally posted by SilverSmith
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

Go up a few posts. Have you viewed the YouTube video I posted? Anyone?

Your video has been shown here before and it means NOTHING. it is all GUESS work and has NO substantive evidence whatsoever.

It is all MAYBE this and COULD be that...but NO proof of any kind..all conjecture, all supposition, all guesswork..as usual for deniers. It is an old teenaged attempt to try and figure out Criss event, but it fails terrible. NO evidence, all guesses.

Tell ya what, please account for the editing?

Please account as to why there are 2 different landings?

Please account for why the clouds move in an unlike cloud manner?

Please account for the shadows in one clip, gone in the next?

Are these spirits also controlling our weather patterns while CA is doing his gig?

Please explain why there are people in one camera view and not in another??

He's an ILLUSIONIST who has been caught editing tape. So stop with all this nonsense and go hunt down a hobbit.

C'mon Eyewitness.

You just said Copperfield has never been able to perform like CA. Right away I show you them doing the same Illusion and suddenly you get all silent on me. At least you could say it means NOTHING, as you so often do. Is your last name Schultz as in Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Hero's?

I See NOTHING. C'mon lets here your rationale for this.

and if we are comparing copperfeild to angel ,

has angel done a stunt comparable to the copperfeild grand canyon levitation ? or his " walk through " the great wall of china ?

both those had more witnesses on site than any angel stunt

Originally posted by SilverSmith

Now if they had really sawed themselves in half there would be a lot of guts and gore.....funny how CA bleeds when doing his coin through the arm trick but has no blood at all when cut in half????????

what is more amazing - is that there are no chips as the "saw " comes down and " cuts " the table / platform in half

Originally posted by SilverSmith
CRiss's sawed in half trick was good but after watching David's I kinda prefer the theatrical aspect of it where the lights, fog and music really set the "mood".

Yeah, well.. David always preffered a lot of drama in everything..

The interesting thing here is, that at first i thought Criss' version of the sawing in half trick was better, since David did it in a box.

But think about this:

We know this is an ilusion. Even Eyewitness would agree on that.
It requires some complicated positioning of the body in the table.
David did it in a box, so i thought Criss' was better.

But since there is a camera switch between the part where he is mounted to the table and the part where he is sawed in half, this means he did all the moves required DURING the camera switch.

Now which is harder to do? Doing it in a box hardly big enough for a normal person to move in, or turning the camera OFF and taking all the time you need?


From this, two things can be concluded:
- David's version actually IS better, since it really is live and Criss' just looks better, but it's camera tricks.
- Which leads directly to the second conclusion. Criss keeps saying there is no camera tricks and "what you see is what you get"... Really?


This just shows Criss is LYING. Without turning the camera OFF he would have NO WAY of repositioning himself in that table.

Both David's and Criss' ilusions are done the same way. In both cases we see the body on the table being sawed in half without obstructions.

But in both cases there are obstructions preventing us from seeing HOW the hiding of the body is done. In David's case we have a box, in Criss' case we have the camera turned off in between.

Both are doing ilusions, but Criss is prettying them up with camera tricks. Because of that, another ilusionist could argue, that Criss is not even a real ilusionist, that it's all just "Hollywood".


But that's not the point here. The point is, Criss IS LYING when he says there are no camera tricks or paid witnesses.

And since he is lying about this trick, why should anyone believe he isn't lying about the others?



Let me see you answer this, Eyewitness.. You keep saying it is unrelated to the levitation. But both is from his show, where he supposedly doesn't use camera tricks. And here we KNOW he is LYING. Why do you think he is lying here, but not about his levitations?

Or do you have another explanation for how he does this sawing in half without LYING about camera tricks and paid audience?

Again, Eyewitness, just in case you missed it:

I just gave you an example of Criss lying, using camera tricks and paid "witnesses" who didn't reveal how it was done.

The three things you said were impossible. All this time you kept repeating it is impossible to have paid witnesses and keep them from revealing the secret..


Well.. Show me an example of a witness revealing how he did the sawing in half.. Since we know he DID use a camera trick there and you keep saying it is impossible to keep witnesses quiet someone must have told it to the public, right?

OR

Explain to us, how he did that trick WITHOUT using paid witnesses and camera tricks.

OR

Admit Criss is lying, when he says "What you see is what you get."


Of course, you can just as well add the sawing in half to one of his mystic powers and then you don't have to explain anything, as usual...


Besides, i've noticed you don't like answering to my questions anymore...
Why is that?!?