criss angel discussion...

reply to post by eyewitness86


Cmon, EW we have been down this road. Look at the video again, the shot of CA is inside a building as we see the exit and push bar on the door. There are no pushbars on the outside portion of an exit door. Why do we then see two men and then two women who are out in the sun outdoors supposedly looking at CA levitate? Do they have xray vision that allows them to see through the walls? Sorry just another example of CA editing his videos yet again.

Don't stop Believing................. after all your proof is.....doctored videos..............

Don't tell me I finally shamed the deniers into silence!! Maybe repeating the facts over and over and exposing the utter, total lack of evidence to the contrary DOES work after a while. Maybe common sense and logic DO rub off if you pound it into their heads long enough..if so, great!!

Sorry, you are WRONG Pavil..yet again. So easy to beat, you are. HOTELS, which I assume you have never stayed in, at least big ones, have OUTDOOR AREAS that have doors with push bars and they lead to the inner hotel from the enclosed courtyard. Ever heard of a hotal with a POOL AREA? OR a hotel with an enclosed GARDEN area? Hmm?

That door is leading to the INTERIOR of the hotel from an outdoor area. There are pushbars on BOTH sides of the door, just like on COUNTLESS doors throughout facilities everywhere. Sorry Pavil, better do better than that!

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Don't tell me I finally shamed the deniers into silence!!

So you can be busy, but "deniers" don't have the same luxury?

I think most people just gave up on you. But i like reading your replies. I really do. I enjoy them very much. You make me laugh every time. I should give you a star now and then.

And just for that reason, i will give you a couple more replies. But when I have time..

Untill then, if you could write something funny again, that would be great!

CA's body is not in a natural and relaxed position as it should be if he could truly levitate.

If you look at the last video clip his feet are together, and legs, but stiff. There is nothing relaxed about them, as if standing on something or in some form braced. He has movement from the shoulders up but I must also state I only watched little more than half the video.

I know it to be an illusion. Has anyone asked themselves why, if CA could really levitate, that he would be exploiting this great gift for money and the celebrity lifestyle?

"Hi, I'm Criss Angel, and I can defy gravity as I tap into another spiritual realm. Please come see my show in Las Vegas! By the way, sponsors are welcome"

Here is somethingt hilarious: Deniers have ZERO proof of anything they allege!! They must be real comedians insisting that nothing is something. I am glad you get a kick out of being backed into a corner that you cannot escape from: Since you cannot come up with even a SHRED of evidence that proves your beliefs, the fact that you are firm believers in a proposal that has no merit is a howl!!

I agree, lets keep it light and enjoy watching the deniers go down in flames every time. To insist that a TOTAL LACK of proof is in fact all the proof needed is beyond funny, it is insane!!

Originally posted by SilverSmith
CA's body is not in a natural and relaxed position as it should be if he could truly levitate.

If you look at the last video clip his feet are together, and legs, but stiff. There is nothing relaxed about them, as if standing on something or in some form braced. He has movement from the shoulders up but I must also state I only watched little more than half the video.

I know it to be an illusion. Has anyone asked themselves why, if CA could really levitate, that he would be exploiting this great gift for money and the celebrity lifestyle?

"Hi, I'm Criss Angel, and I can defy gravity as I tap into another spiritual realm. Please come see my show in Las Vegas! By the way, sponsors are welcome"

First, please link us to other examples of human levitation so we can compare stances and see that Criss is indeed ' doing it wrong ' as you say. Upon WHAT do you base your belief that if levitation were real it would be done differently. Please tell us what you base that upon. If the answer is : your IMAGINATION, then you are a deniers thru and thru!!

HOW should Criss stand? Lets assume that the force that Criss uses to levitate assume control in a way that you are not aware of: For example, if the ' entities ' that PR believes are responsible for the levitation lift Criss from the feet and legs, then no wonder he has to stand in a way certain: If YOU were being picked up by your buddies by the fett and legs imagine the way you would have to adjust your body weight to balance....NOW apply that the Criss and you will see he does nothing unusual.

Now, lets say that the entities or forces used apply presure in a different way, perhaps lifting him from his center of gravity; we would see Criss adjust to the forces holding him up, NATURALLY.

Since you DENIERS claim that human beings cannot levitate and there MUST be props, then HOW on earth can you claim there is a right or wrong way to position the body for one???? How? Criss is being lifted up off the ground and I believe that the elements used apply force primarily in the center of gravity: That leaves Criss to either dangle his feet around loosely or cross them and make a cohesive unit for the balancing for the lift.

In any event, how do you KNOW it to be an illusion? Tell us how you KNOW it to be so. And, why do so many people think that if someone is able to levitate that they must be some kind of saint that would forego all earthly pleasure and riches? WHY??

What makes people associate these abilities with a spiritual maturity? There is NO reason for Criss to stay poor and go around doing minor ( or major ) levitations and such..what good would that do anyone? He is not a healer or involved in the advanced spiritual realms, he can simply harness the forces ( or entities ) that allow him to defy gravity and to also alter the molecular structure of elements and transmutate items back and forth to the visible realm.

The ability to levitate does NOT in ANY way, shape or form mean that the person doing it has any imperative to help others. Criss is using his abilities to help himself and his family friends and crew to make a good living and enjoy the life they desire. Criss might be able to develop his gifts and help others but that would take a different outlook than he currently has.

So, each and every one of your ' observations ' has been noted, answered and defeated. NEXT!!

I will try to show you what is hilarious.. I don't think you'll get it..
But maybe someone else will:


Here is somethingt hilarious: Believers have ZERO proof of anything they allege!! They must be real comedians insisting that nothing is something. I am glad you get a kick out of being backed into a corner that you cannot escape from: Since you cannot come up with even a SHRED of evidence that proves your beliefs, the fact that you are firm believers in a proposal that has no merit is a howl!!

I agree, lets keep it light and enjoy watching the believers go down in flames every time. To insist that a TOTAL LACK of proof is in fact all the proof needed is beyond funny, it is insane!!


EDIT: I forgot to give you a star.. There it is.

[edit on 22/1/08 by deezee]

reply to post by eyewitness86


Thanks for the snide comment. I've never been to a deluxe hotel that had steel fire doors like that in very visual places. I don't recall the Luxor having that in the areas you contend.

Fire exit doors are to open to the outside. I am sure that in Vegas after the MGM fire the code would be pretty strict on that.

I know that you saying so is the truth, but please provide visual proof of fire exit doors having double push bars, I think you are incorrect.

To me it's obvious that wherever that so called leviatation occurred, it was out of the way as evidenced by the lack of a really big crowd. CA would draw a much larger crowd. Another staged "event" for you to believe in.

Pavil Pavil Pavillllwhat to do with you..I like you tho, I really do. you have guts and guts is enough for the time being...it will serve you well defending yourself against the deniers when I swing you over to our side!!

But Pavil I am experienced with hotels and secuity, very much so. Fire doors LEAD to the exterior of a building...they INDICATE A PATH TO SAFETY, a fire door does NOT necessarily open up to the outdoors every time..that would be insane to imagine...NO fires door indicators until you reach the last door? No way pal.

Those double push doors are meant for 24/7 access to a PATh to safety in case of an event. They cannot be locked without a special key and are NEVER locked while the hotel in in operation and has guests present.

These doors are seen in all venues where they lead INTERNALLY on a property to some outdoor exit. That door was leading from the hotel proper to the enclosed OUTDOOR area, where a guest could flee if fire came. Granted, they would still be INSIDE the hotel property and unable to access to a street; unless an emergency path from that area was opened to allow unfettered access to the exterior of the property.

A door with a push bar is NEVER an entrance to the interior of a hotel from the outside of the property to the inside, it gives no security and allows anyone to enter. Again, push doors are never locked unless no guests are on the property, and in some states, even when the hotal is occupied by any one, workers, etc. Hope this eductade you a bit.

The door means NOTHING. The fact is that Criss levitated at arms length, literally from the hands of onlookers, and of course you now must believe that: Criss imported and paid all the witnesses to act suprised and in shock';Criss had some wires ( as usual that cannot be seen ) that lifted him up; Criss was inside and the onlookers were outside because there is a push door.

See how silly it gets? You make a mistake about a door and then your imagination kicks in, as usual, and then you have your answer...the same old wrong answer. Why believe in all the conspiracies necessary to stage the event? What proof is there that it was staged and paid off? NONE!! Thats what..NONE!! but STILL you cling to your belief in props and payoffs, despite the total lack of proof.

Doesn't it bother you at ALL that of all your ' evidence ' the biggest are things that always start with : MAYBE...or COULD HAVE...or MIGHT BE... or PERHAPS....never, ever do you say " Here, look at this! Proof positive! A witness alleging a payoff...a film showing alterations that affect the event..some sign..ANY sign of a prop..anything!!

But you cannot and do not do that..because no such evidence exitsts..or if it does it is only in your active imagination. C'mon Pavil I expect more from you than this!!

And another, wonderfull example of a post by you.. Again, i'll try to show what you are doing. This time i will bold my words to show, just how little needs to be changed.

While reading, pretend this is being said by a "denier".


Beginning of altered post

Here is the point: If Criss is not using props in his high levitations, then WHY cannot even ONE bit, one tiny example, of proof be shown by you? The TOTAL abscence of any evidence does not seem to phase you, and that is illogical to me. Claiming that videos are not altered is one thing. But to offer some proof, some evidence , that CRISS doesn't use altered video is another thing entirely, now isn't it? You skirt around my questions with the same old tired, ridiculous answers: it is impossible for criss employees to be totaly loyal, staying silent about how he preforms his levitations, for now, right? Also, WHY will you accept the ridiculous belief that some of the "witnesses" haven't already told someone how he is doing it? you never will address this.

Either Criss has some way of keeping 100% of his witnesses silent forever and loyal, or he does not. You believe I assume that he does. Please tell us WHY you believe this. Is there are evidence of any "witness" or employee ever coming forward and claiming in shock, that Criss really can levitate without props? If you have that evidence, then present it. If you do not, then WHY would you assume that to be true ?

Also, you weak and totally silly answer to why Criss is the only one, who is ever going to preform such levitations and that no one will ever outdo him: You actually believe that Criss is at the top of his profession, with no imitators and no one else even coming CLOSE to the type of events he does, merely because all the other performers are content to accept a lesser role in things? What causes you to believe this? Have you spoken to any high ranking and current illusionists and asked them why they all are content to allow Criss to remain the King forever? No? Have you any internet links that would explain your belief that most performers in Las Vegas and elsewhere would all, without exception, avoid the events Criss does? Never even attempting to outdo him? If so, present them. If not, then WHY would you believe that all these people would accept second best forever? How do you know someone isn't already preparing a better illusion?

Your replies are weak..pathetically weak, and is all that you can come up with, just like all the others. this has gone on for so long, and it never changes. All other illusionists are incapable of preforming a levitation illusion. Criss must pay off tons of people to stay quiet about the fact that he really can levitate, without any props or video editing, even tho such a thing would be much harder to keep quiet than HOW he does an illusion. Tese people never ever tell about this and stay silent forever. Video can be trsted, even though no proof of lack of alteration exists. What your eyes see and what your brain tels you must be true because 'illusions don't exist and levitation is possible', or at least some new age book said so!!

No wonder we have such a hard time gettng thru. Lack of proof is assumed as fact. The least possible guesses are condisered foundations. Unreal..just unreal.

You are NOT starting your quest for trruth on a neutral basis!! this is the key!! If you were, you would not begin assuming that he MUST be really levitating by himself. you would approach it evenly. Then, you would consider all of the actual evidence: Videos that have been shown to be altered. Witnesses that have never been shown not to be paid off. Testimony that has never been attempted to be proven false. None of the employees exclaiming in shock, that he can levitate WITHOUT props! You would weigh the evidence and come to the conclusion that Criss does use props in the high levitations.

The reason you would decide that is because no evidence to the contrary exists, and as such the plain and simple proofs presented make a positive case. A jury would find that also, based upon the evidence, and the fact that NONE of the evidence has ever been refuted bya reputable party knowledgeble of the events, and no contrary evidence of merit has proven otherwise. Case closed.

End of altered post



BTW: Is anyone else seeing this?

reply to post by eyewitness86


Dude, you're wound up a bit tight eh?

Before I get into this with you, what would it take for you to believe that CA is just an illusionist and has no spiritual abilities?

If he stated directly to you that he is just an illusionist, and a good one at that, would you believe him? Yes or no?


And to Deeze, I understand what you're pointing out. His statements are contradictory to what he believes.



[edit on 22-1-2008 by SilverSmith]

reply to post by eyewitness86


Still no visual documentation for your claim.

What hotel is CA doing the levitation at? Why the contrasted out shots of him levitating as opppossed to the sunny clear shots of onlookers, a whole maybe 15 of them. Is he hiding/covering up something with that shot?

As we have all stated before you have never provided any other evidence than CA's edited views of his performances.

Originally posted by SilverSmith
reply to post by eyewitness86

 

Dude, you're wound up a bit tight eh?

Before I get into this with you, what would it take for you to believe that CA is just an illusionist and has no spiritual abilities?

If he stated directly to you that he is just an illusionist, and a good one at that, would you believe him? Yes or no?


And to Deeze, I understand what you're pointing out. His statements are contradictory to what he believes.



[edit on 22-1-2008 by SilverSmith]

I am entirely relaxed, and your assumption that I am ' wound up tight ' is an effort to label me without knowing a thing about me. You are GUESSING, as usual, like all deniers. I could call you ' lazy ' for not being involved enough..right?

Now, What would it take for me to accept the supposition that Criss uses props in the HIGH LEVITATIONS? You, as usual, make broad and sweeping demends " JUST an illusionsit ", etc.. Here is what it would take:


One bit of evidence that such props exist and were used in the events as recorded by multiple cameras. One photo of the wires of sky hook..or whatever you allege he is hanging from. One witness that claims with authority that Criss paid them to act suprised and covber up props, like the ' cranes ' that the deniers imagine are on the golf course. The deniers HATE the Luxor footage as many cameras all show NO props, the hotel Engineering chief denies and props were there, and we have no proof of any such props being real. They are imagined. You assume they are there because of a predetermined belief that man cannot levitate without them. I know better.

Thats is why I do NOT assume that they are there, I looked for them, and when I did not see them, and could see that there were no props, supports, wires, ropes, tackle, gear , assistants, helicopters OR sky hooks, AND I added all that up with the FACTS that no other human being has ever even come close to attempting, much less acheiving, the effects seen. No other ' illusionist ' can perform the events Criss does. Deniers claim that is because all the others are all content and happy allowing Criss alone to make the big bucks and get the TV deals, etc. Awful generous profession, eh?

It would take some tangible proof, some thing MORE than a supposition and an assumption. If you start with an assumption, you will tend to see and believe things not in evidence, thats normal. Thats why juries are always instructed to assume the person is innocent, so that the stigma of arrest is not a factor in the delibertaions determining facts. Since all deniers come with a predetermined attitude denying what their eyes se and their sense tell them, they cannot accept the truth.

I merely came with an open mind, examined the evidence, and came to the conclusion that Criss Angel can levitate for brief periods without the use of props of any kind, and without film altering, and without paying witnesses off and hoping they keep quiet forever. All of the ' reasons ' that the deniers give are based on the assumed presence of things not in evidence.

All it wopuld take is some proof, some evidence. I am MORE than willing to admit I have been wrong all along and sheepishly retire in disgrace, IF, and opnly if, the deniers can present something a lot more substantial than what is ASSUMED, PROPOSED, IMAGINED, ETC. Something like a video of another illusionist doing a high levitation similar to Criss', but WITH props., and showing how those props were disguised from view. Sound reasonable? It is more than reasonable, and you know it.

The problem is you cannot produce such a video, because no one has or can levitate like Criss without props showing. I say there are no props to show. You may say that they are invisible props that only Criss has access to, or some other typical denier excuse, but that is really lame, isn't it? You have to admit that with NO actual evidence, not even a video exposing the event, you bring nothing to a machine gun battle but a plastic knife.

It would not take much..hell, I would settle for any evidence that does not ask for blind faith...evidence that convinces and settles, not excuses that irritate and insult. You may well believe that Criss used props in the Luxor event, but ask yourself, down deep, WHY you believe that. Is it because you see props, or any way props could be used under those conditions? No. it is because you cannot IMAGINE levitation, that is outside your experience..you CAN imagine props though, and THAT is the crux of our issue.

You CAN imagine props you cannot see, but you CANNOT imagine what you DO see. How typical for limited paradigms, but not uncommon. The vast majority of the drone world thinks the same way, don't feel badly: just escape the illusions and see the reality: No props are there, and you cannot find and present any evidence of them for that reason. They are not there to begin with, no matter what your limited experience tells you.

Sorry, missed a question: Yes, if Criss told me that he had used props and described them to my satisfaction, I would believe him. I would NOT believe him unless he were to explain how he made them invisible and hidden from the hotel Engineering staff and all the cameras.

Criss uses the controversy to his full advantage. He loves the fact that people CANNOT expose a method and props for some of his events, yet many will still believe that they exist. That is what makes him special, isn't it? Criss can do events that NO ONE ELSE can do or have done. If anyone could top him, they WOULD. That is the nature of the beast: Competition is FIERCE in the entertainment industry, all deniers imaginings to the contrary.

Criss refers to his " Mind / body / Spirit Events ' and it slips over the heads of people wanting to imagine some props that cannot be explained or seen or photographed. Simply saying " Gee, Criss is an illusionist " does NOT satisfy the utter lack of proof of props. If you saw a plumber levitate, would you say " He cannot levitate, he is just a plumber" ? No, you would not make any connection between his day job and what you witnessed, now would you? Of course not. Neither should you make any connection between Criss job as an illusionist and his ability to levitate.

If that is not as plain and clear an answer as can be, let me know and I will try and make it more plain: Criss uses NO props in the high levitations. No proof of any exist.

reply to post by deezee



That was really lame: Altering my post did nothing to advance anything you may believe. it was silly.

" How do you know someone else isn't preparing something bigger?" Is THAT the big proof you offer? the MAYBE that MAYBE someone is MAYBE preparing to really outdo Criss. Maybe there is, but in all these years NO ONE HAS. If they are spending a decade preparing then they may lose the battle anyway!!

Your replies are the same as always: MAYBE something is one way...maybe..that is really sad when the best you have are maybes and supposes and if's..and that is all you have.

Originally posted by SilverSmith
And to Deeze, I understand what you're pointing out. His statements are contradictory to what he believes.

I altered his statements slightly, to show that the very same logic he is using essentially prooves he is wrong.

His logic is very good actualy, but he is using it backwards - starting at the belief Criss CAN levitate and working from there.

He thinks he is completely neutral and objective in his analysis, but he doesn't understand his beliefs make this impossible.


Beliefs make you think you know everything about something. And that is the exact opposite of open mindedness - no matter what it is, that you believe.

reply to post by eyewitness86

Even tho i repeated this to you time and time again, you simply don't seem to even hear it:

I, like you, have spent MANY years studying spirituality and paranormal abilities and even achieved and saw others achieve some things i still can't explain.

But i don't just consider the possibilities i like. I consider ALL of them, even that all the things i witnessed were coincidences. To say otherwise would be pretending i know something i don't. Not for sure.

So if you were arguing that levitation IS possible, i would not try to proove you wrong. But i would ask you for proof and point out that so far, there isn't any real, independently verified proof.

It's the same with Criss Angel. I'm not saying he isn't capable of levitating. I'm just saying that there is no proof he really is levitating. And based on experience, the probability is incredibly small. Unimaginably small.

What you still don't want to understand is, that i would LOVE to believe it is possible! I really would. But i'm not going to, without proof.

Many less improbable claims have been lies or delusions again and again. So often in fact, that it makes it hard to see, if there is anything to it at all!


I don't want to spend my life believing other people's lies and delusions. Because of that, i will always ask for verification or try to find it myself. I will always consider all possibilities and accept one as the most likely - the most probable one. Even if i don't like it.

You on the other hand, choose what to believe based on what you want to, on what feels good or maybe comforting. I can understand that, as i did that myself many years ago. So i don't have a problem with that.
I also don't have a problem with discussing things like that.

But i do have a problem with you using insults when someone doesn't agree with you, and calling them ignorant or narrow minded.


Tell me one thing... Why do you get offended, when someone doesn't agree with you? Why do you try so hard to convince others of what you want to believe?

To me that only shows, that you yourself don't really completely believe - you just want to, very very hard. That is the reason you get offended, when someone doesn't agree with you - because it hurts your belief. And that is the reason you keep trying to convince others - to convince yourself even more.


Well, in your defense i have to say, many people are much worse. They don't even try to discuss things. They just say "I'm right and you're wrong. I know the truth. End of discussion!" At least you are trying to proove your point. And your insults could be much worse.



About Criss Angel:
Tell me one thing... You keep saying it is impossible to pay people enough to keep quiet on how Criss does his levitations.

Which of these two things do you think would be harder to achieve:
- Pay people enough not to tell what props he is using, or
- pay people enough not to tell he is levitating by himself, without props?

If you imagine these two possibilities, which one would be harder to keep quiet about? A crane and wires, or a flying person?

Which one of these two things would make it harder for you (or someone else) to keep quiet about?
Would it be harder to keep quiet about the fact that an illusionist is doing illusions?
Or would it perhaps be harder to keep quiet about the fact that a person can levitate WITHOUT ANY HELP from outside and the profound implications this would have?


The fact that you keep ignoring is, that the witnesses and the employees ARE keeping quiet about HOW Criss is levitating. It's true, that no witness or employee has so far told to the public, what props Criss is using. But it is also true, that no witness or employee has so far told to the public that it is possible for humans to levitate by themselves.

For me, the implications of the possibility of real levitation would be enormous and much harder to keep quiet about, than some wires.


If i was paid to keep quiet about what props Criss is using, i would do so, and maybe only tell the few people i trust most. Why? Because Criss is not lying and saying he has supernatural powers. If he was lying and scaming people, it would be much harder for me to keep quiet about it.

But if i was paid, to keep quiet about the fact humans can levitate by themselves... Hmm... What would you do? Would you keep such a profound thing for yourself?

Think about it...


At the very least, i would request A LOT more money for hiding such a truth. But i don't think i could really do it.. It would be just too important to me.
On the other hand... Who cares about a few wires? Especially, since everyone already knows it's an illusion..

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Sorry, missed a question: Yes, if Criss told me that he had used props and described them to my satisfaction, I would believe him. I would NOT believe him unless he were to explain how he made them invisible and hidden from the hotel Engineering staff and all the cameras.

Criss uses the controversy to his full advantage. He loves the fact that people CANNOT expose a method and props for some of his events, yet many will still believe that they exist. That is what makes him special, isn't it? Criss can do events that NO ONE ELSE can do or have done. If anyone could top him, they WOULD. That is the nature of the beast: Competition is FIERCE in the entertainment industry, all deniers imaginings to the contrary.

If that is not as plain and clear an answer as can be, let me know and I will try and make it more plain: Criss uses NO props in the high levitations. No proof of any exist.

I don't mean any harm here but you are wound up tight over this. Lets say he is some sort of being that has tapped into another realm. So what?

I'm being serious here in my question. So what? What does that do for you or me or anyone else? It only seems to be making CA rich and famous, correct?

Lets then say that he is just an illusionist. So what? Does that some how dash your dreams or hopes? Does it effect your life in a negative way? Again I'm being serious in my questions.

Also, since CA is an illusionist and claims to be the best there is, then I nor anyone else should EXPECT to find any wires or anything else that blows the illusion, correct? It would destroy the ILLUSION if you could see wires and such.

Also, have you ever read any interviews given by Criss? I just read at least 5 and no where does he ever claim he is anything but a magician/illusionist. For example: (The first quote is a question from the interviewer, the second quote is Criss's response)

Growing up I always envision magicians never revealed what they did, or how they did their tricks. I know my father to this day won’t tell me how he did his card tricks. I know you, along with some others; you do reveal how you do your tricks. I want you to talk about why you do that. And do you feel that the entertainment is maybe more important than the actual trick?

Well you hit the nail on the head. You’re absolutely right. The trick doesn’t make the magician, the magician makes the trick. I’m a firm believer of that. The reason I decided to put out an introductory DVD series called Master Mind Freaks, and a more advanced series called Master Minds, or even in my book that I’m proud to say was just on the LA Times bestseller, “Criss Angel MindFreak: Secret Revelations” which has forty mind freaks in it. I did that consciously because one, when I was getting into the art of magic I couldn’t find material that had my sensibilities, that had things that appealed to me. I wanted to put something out there that I felt; I feel everyone should know one good joke and one good effect. It’s an icebreaker.

Also, I just don’t think magic garners the respect it deserves. It’s kind of like a cheap hokey novelty, and it’s about up to this point shoving girls in leotards and boxes. I just think magic is so much more than that. It’s a beautiful art form that needs to be presented in a provocative popular culture way. I think when it is it is well received like my television series. So, I wanted to put some stuff out there whether it was just for some magic enthusiast or maybe is getting bit by the bug to do it professionally. But I just wanted magic as an art form to eventually one day garner the respect it deserves. I think it’s going to take the future generations to be able to do that. So if I have one small part in it, then I think it’s fantastic.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
That was really lame: Altering my post did nothing to advance anything you may believe. it was silly.

I just wanted to show you, what is so interesting about your posts.
Like that thing, when you say for deniers, lack of proof is proof of the opposite. But at the same time, that is exactly what you're doing. You're taking lack of proof of one thing as proof of the opposite.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
" How do you know someone else isn't preparing something bigger?" Is THAT the big proof you offer?

No, that wasn't meant to proove anything other than the fact, that YOU are assuming things.

The only thing i'm trying to proove, is that there is no proof.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
the MAYBE that MAYBE someone is MAYBE preparing to really outdo Criss. Maybe there is, but in all these years NO ONE HAS. If they are spending a decade preparing then they may lose the battle anyway!!

For a very long time, David Copperfield was the only one flying.
He was also the only one ever "walking through" the great wall of china.
He also sawed himself in half with a huge "saw blade", which "failed" in the middle and fell through him and the table he was on.

Now we have Criss levitating and flying.
Then we have him "going through the walls" of a security money transport vehicle and doing it very similiarly at that - that elastic sheet that showed us his figure as a relief. Now that i think of it, David's was better.
And we have Criss sawing himself in half.

Do you also believe he really sawed himself in half? Or was that an illusion?

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Your replies are the same as always: MAYBE something is one way...maybe..that is really sad when the best you have are maybes and supposes and if's..and that is all you have.

Again, that was not my argument, that was just supposed to show how little is needed, to turn your argument around.

But i'll still answer this: For me it is very "sad", when a person believes, they know everything.
Because that makes it impossible for them to even consider a different possibility.

Another thing that i find sad is, that you still think that i'm an antibeliever - a believer of the opposite.
Unlike you, wanting to believe levitation is possible, i don't want to believe it is impossible. In fact, just the opposite is true. But it will take evidence, before i do. Real evidence, not imagined one.

I try to believe as little as possible, because otherwise, my beliefs would prevent me from considering all possibilities.
I just don't want wannabeliefs and wishfull thinking to cloud my reasoning and prevent me from being objective.

[edit on 22/1/08 by deezee]