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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
I write dozens of questions that go unanswered that actually have some meaning, and all you can do is insult and argue with nothing to back you up.

Oh really? We don't answer your questions?!?

You ignoring the answers isn't the same as the answers not being there.

I adressed MANY of your questions and shown you the fallacies in your "logic" time and time again, and so have many others.

It is you, who doesn't answer questions. It's you, who uses insults ALL THE TIME.

And it is YOU, who does all these things, only to then blame us of doing the same. Your projection skills really are exceptionall.


If there really was something to your "logic", then you would systematically answer each and every question.

But instead, all you do is say "I don't care, that doesn't mean anything." and then write a lengthy post consisting of nothing but manic ramblings and insults.

If you were such an excellent objective logical thinker as you seem to believe you are, you wouldn't be afraid of questions.
But you are ignoring 99% of them, so....


Well then, i guess there is nothing to discuss. You obviously don't want to..




posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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Why would someone that cannot read my responses spend an entire post lambasting me personally? me thinks he doth protest to much!

I am not looking for ' followers ' as you put it. I do not care one iota if any of you deniers ever come to your senses; it would be nice, and gratifying to find one out there with cognitive abilities above that of a common fenny snake, but I do not set my expectations for deniers too high.

There have been NO videos posted here that show anything anomalous, except in your imaginations. The shadows are caused by angle to light. Editing links pieces of film together for cohesive viewing and thus accounts for the different cameras and shots taken under differing angles and lighting conditions.

You STILL shy away from facing the facts:

You MUST believe the incredible: You must believe that Criss has some way of paying witnesses to stay silent and lie for him and act suprised ( are they all Actors Guild members?), yet we never hear of even ONE of these paid witnesses EVER coming forward in any venue, onlione or anywhere else, claiming to be one of the many, the legions needed to stay silent over the years Criss has been performing. But you won't adres that because the only reply you can give is so ludicrous that even you would be ashamed.

Total loyalty and silence forever, all for some small sum paid by Criss, right? If you believe that, then see why there is no reasoning with you? Also, you MUST believe that Criss is the ONLY person with enough intelligence to make a fortune out of plain and simple deceit. You are claiming that Criss production company removes props from the video and alters the video so that it deceives people and he makes money on it. That is called fraud. Why is no one, not another competitor of Criss ( yes, he has them despite the ravings of the deniers ), not an online expose', nothing.

So you believe that out of all the slimy tricksters out there, Criss is the ONLY one that has the ability to make faked videos and profit from them, right? For some reason, all the other slick operators just leave Criss alone and never try and duplicate the events he does using faked film so they can get rich too, right? You believe that? See why I have no faith in your abilities to discern reality? You would believe ANYTHING except what is staring you in the face plain and clear. That says a lot about YOU, but noghting about me.

You must believe in vast conspiracies that never become known, correct? Ciss must have some personality to convince every hotel employee to lie and be a part of the fraud, correct? you believe that also, you must. You strecth the very bounds of imagination to come up with some slender thread of an excuse to salvage your depleted view of reality. You must think that somehow Criss alone has the ability to put all these things together and make it work: There are no others out there that can do it, and you say it is because no one cares to do so. That is beyond crazy. Anyplace there is a dollar to be made, there will be a hundred scammers trying to outdo each other to make the bucks.

But curiously, Criss and Criss alone remains unimpeded by anyone either griping about his supposed ' fraud ', but also no one cares to make money the same way!! If all it takes is tricked film, why aren't a hundred Youtube video's showing us some guy levitating at a high altitude or in broad daylight with no props visible? Why isn't there ONE?????

But of course rather than ask a few hard questions, you would rather sneer and assume you know all there is about the physical and immaterial realms!! A bold assertion for those who cannot even grasp a simple thing like human levitation. I guess you think that the cases of Human Spontaneous Combustion are all just some drunks getting set on fire, right? Ever studied that phenomenon? No? No wonder. If you had, you would know that the human body is far more than a lump of flesh..but I don't want to confuse you guys too much, so I will stay with this.

ALL of the evidence needed to make a reasoned and complete decision as to whether or not Criss uses props in the high levitations is right in front of you. All you ned to do is have a grasp of what ODDS are and how they operate in making decisions , and no predetermined conclusions. Then look at all the evidence, from all sources; see the close up continuous shots that cannot be tricked, and with large crowds, and ask yourself how Criss could possible control all those people and all those conditions, if he is just a fraud. The odds alone will tell the tale.

I know that many of you will never grasp this; until it happens right in front of you ( and some of you deniers would run shrieking to the ER complaining that someone had spiked your food with '___'!!) or it becomes so common that the undeniability will be beyond your ability to ignore any longer. Ever seen the HUTCHINSON EFFECT? By exposing certain areas to certain frequencies and certain voltages, non metal objects levitate and jump around and do all kinds of things that before would have been called magnetism but water and all other things are affected by this Effect.

So think that if Criss can manipulate, or regulate or control, certain aspects of his own electrical essence, he could theoretically use that to levitate. PaulRichard ( whom I wish would drop in and spell me for a bit..need to reload and have a smoke!!) thinks that certain entities are responsible, and for all I know he is right. I do not have a definitive stance on exactly HOW he levitates without props, but I know for DAMNED SURE that on certain high levitations, there ARE NO PROPS.

Once you get past that fact, then it gets really interesting trying to figure out the exact method used; one thing for sure: it does NOT involve invisible wires, helicopters, skyhooks, legions of paid and loyal to the death and silent witnesses, or video that has been subjected to a fraudulent alteration to deceive. Criss has no need to do all that and engage in base deceit to make a living: All he has to do is use the natural abilities he has honed over the years..thats all.

More when time allows.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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Im going to skip the majority of your post because we've been over this territory before, and regardless of what we respond with, you still ignore it and make bold assumptions of what we believe and do not believe.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
But of course rather than ask a few hard questions, you would rather sneer and assume you know all there is about the physical and immaterial realms!!


But you of course, with your infinite knowledge, know more than we?



A bold assertion for those who cannot even grasp a simple thing like human levitation.


So simple is it? Please do explain.



I guess you think that the cases of Human Spontaneous Combustion are all just some drunks getting set on fire, right? Ever studied that phenomenon? No? No wonder.


Wow, yet another unfounded assumption. Keep em comming bubba.



If you had, you would know that the human body is far more than a lump of flesh..but I don't want to confuse you guys too much, so I will stay with this.


Gee, the second snide and insulting remark to come from you in this post, how many more do you got?



ALL of the evidence needed to make a reasoned and complete decision as to whether or not Criss uses props in the high levitations is right in front of you.


Im sitll waiting for your list. Its going on, what, 20 or so pages you said you would produce it?



All you ned to do is have a grasp of what ODDS are and how they operate in making decisions ,


Right, odds this, odds that. So seeing as you grasp them so well and how they operate, please do share with us, what are the statistical odds that CA can levitate without the use of props.

I will be happy to get your data peer reviewed. Please include all source contact information for independant verification.




and no predetermined conclusions.


Ya, speak for yourself.



Then look at all the evidence, from all sources;

What alternative sources have you looked into? Please provide the contact information.



see the close up continuous shots that cannot be tricked,

Close up shots can be faked just as easily as distance shots. All you do is shoot the scene over and over and over...



and with large crowds,

There is only one large crowd for his stunts and taht is at the Luxor light stunt, in which case, the people are so far away from CA you couldnt make out if it was a person or a pig.



and ask yourself how Criss could possible control all those people and all those conditions, if he is just a fraud.

Asked and answered on a number of pages in this thread.

You make it out to be monumentous, when it really isnt. CA controlls everything the camrea see's.



The odds alone will tell the tale.

Please give your calculations and figures associated with odds.



I know that many of you will never grasp this; until it happens right in front of you ( and some of you deniers would run shrieking to the ER complaining that someone had spiked your food with '___'!!)


nah, i know when someone plays with food.


Ever seen the HUTCHINSON EFFECT? By exposing certain areas to certain frequencies and certain voltages, non metal objects levitate and jump around and do all kinds of things that before would have been called magnetism but water and all other things are affected by this Effect.


Yes, I have. Interesting effect, too bad he cant do anythign with it as he is selling all his equipment. Too bad the Canadian government also raids him on a constant basis...

But that brings up another point, what if CA is just utilizing this effect on a larger scale?



but I know for DAMNED SURE that on certain high levitations, there ARE NO PROPS.


How do you know?

You admit you've never seen him live. You admit you dont watch his show. How can you possibly make that conclusion without seeing it up close and personal? Maybe the same way we make the opposite conclusion? Extrapolation.


More when time allows.


You had tonns of time to type up that post. WHy not invest that time in providing me with the list of your evidence, and the statistical data you harp on about?



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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Wow, it's amazing that this debate STILL rages on!


I think that the high levitations need to be classed as an official enigma. CA certainly has not been pinned down in a lab and proven to have magic powers or psychic abilities by a team of scientists; but props and paid "witnesses" have not been conclusively proven either!

For all the claims of the skeptics that they have "won" this debate, they still have never shown exactly, precisely how CA accomplishes these stunts, exactly what props are used and how they are kept secret from the witnesses, etc etc.

I'd like to introduce a third possibility. What if CA has been made privy to some sort of classified anti-gravity technology? What if he really is levitating, but making use of some sort of anti-gravity device and not magic powers to do it?



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
There have been NO videos posted here that show anything anomalous, except in your imaginations. The shadows are caused by angle to light. Editing links pieces of film together for cohesive viewing and thus accounts for the different cameras and shots taken under differing angles and lighting conditions.


That is so incorrect I must respond. We have shown multiple "anomalous videos" Building to Building has anamolies that we have shown you, but you are the denier.

The Golf course video has two fairly large anamolies in the sky. What exactly are they eyewitness? Look at the video again and you tell me what those "blurs in the sky" are.
videos.emule.com... ---revealed--part-2-of-3--(dt-Y-vhzGy8



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by MrdDstrbr
 


With all respect you have to consider the probability of the possibilities you have presented.

Which one has the highest probability of being true?



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
but props and paid "witnesses" have not been conclusively proven either!


Props have been proven in some of CA's stunts, just as planted witnesses/ participants has aswell.



For all the claims of the skeptics that they have "won" this debate, they still have never shown exactly, precisely how CA accomplishes these stunts, exactly what props are used and how they are kept secret from the witnesses, etc etc.


I dont claim we've won. I claim we have presented enough counter evidence to raise doubt about CA having a natural ability.

Nor do I contend that the props are kept secret from the witnesses.

I do however, believe that we (the deniers) have presented more evidence of "tom-foolery" (ive always wanted to use that word) in CA's events, than the believers have presented evidence to the contrary.

They have given us no independant footage, no independant witness accounts, no statistical data analyzing the odds of CA being able to levitate, etc etc etc...



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by MrdDstrbr
 


One thoughtful response finally! Pavil also wil look at things honestly and given time will come around.

The equipment needed to produce the effects seen would be too large to hide, especially as Criss often levitates in places where he is far removed from any possible instruments that could affect gravity, and he wears no metalic suit that could help with a gravitational feat.

The machines are just now beginning to do what mankind has had, and lost, the ability to do since time immemorial: Use the naturally given abilities to live the life of a fully developed human, and not a deranged and brutal war monger digging in the dirt to get his sustenance. A few people throughout history has broken the barrier and used that part ofd the brain, or spirit, or whatever you want to label it as, to defeat the ' laws ' that man observes and assumes have no alternate method of approach.

I say it again, I will humbly eat as much crow as you can dish out and resign forever from ATS and never darken the door again..IF proof, evidence, convincing and clear evidence that leaves no doubts, that Criss uses props or any other fraud in the high levitations. The Atrium levitation is one that the deniers hate to talk about: Rigging would have been all too apparent in that one, and of course is not there. The Luxor event was woitnessed ( maybe you missed the video ) by hotel guests from ADJACENT hotels that were high enough to where they were seeing Criss pretty much at a level view, if not above.

They remark on the video about it. Also, it is clear that there are many witnesses who clearly see it is Criss, and only from the street and not the other hotels does he appear smaller...of course. The gold course is so evidential that all the deniers can bleat is " Paid actors..and cranes..etc..blah blah..There appears to be a UFO that shows an interest in the event, perhaps attracted by the unique electro-magnetic signature of the effects that lift Criss...just a guess. You have a better one?

See, people who insist that props exist that have nop basis other than their belief that they are correct when they assume that they understand the nature of gravity and the spirit realm and the physics behind the human organism totally and completely. That boild assertion must accompany a belief that is so absolute yet lacks even the tiniest shred of physical evidence to corroborate. No proof of payu offs, but they believe it, because other wise they would have to admit that the people present were in fact astounded and therefore verify the legitimacy of the event; they cannot give even one inch of ground, no matter how silly their excsues get, because if they do so their whole house of supposition comes tunbling down all at once.

Each and every assumption piles on the odds, but this they ignore. Higher and higher the odds go each time they assume and guess at how a prop they cannot see can actually be there. It MUST be there for them, that is the whole key o it all. They MUST believe in props because otherwise they would have to open the box and dust off the cobwebs and examine what is lurking in their OWN psyche and body and spirit that is stopping THEM from levitating!! So simple.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
The equipment needed to produce the effects seen would be too large to hide,


Really? And what are you basing that on? What degree's in engineering do you posses?


The Atrium levitation is one that the deniers hate to talk about: Rigging would have been all too apparent in that one, and of course is not there.


Not really, all you need is a hoist jigg attached to the roof of the atrium.



The Luxor event was woitnessed ( maybe you missed the video ) by hotel guests from ADJACENT hotels that were high enough to where they were seeing Criss pretty much at a level view, if not above.


Ya, hotels that have quite a bit of space between them, making what they see as small as what those on the ground saw.



See, people who insist that props exist that have nop basis other than their belief that they are correct


Just as you have no basis that he levitates without props other than your belief.

Why wont you address anything I post?



when they assume that they understand the nature of gravity and the spirit realm and the physics behind the human organism totally and completely.


you mean, just as you assume you know how statistical analysis works, how video editing works, how the magic/illusion industry works, etc etc etc.

You make just as many assumptions as we do.



Each and every assumption piles on the odds, but this they ignore. Higher and higher the odds go each time they assume and guess at how a prop they cannot see can actually be there.


You got those figures handy yet? I patiently await a u2u from you with contact information.



It MUST be there for them, that is the whole key o it all. They MUST believe in props because otherwise they would have to open the box and dust off the cobwebs and examine what is lurking in their OWN psyche and body and spirit that is stopping THEM from levitating!! So simple.


Just as props CANT be there for you, otherwise, you may have to wake up and realize, your just a normal guy with no abilities, and probably will never have any.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Although I withdrew from this thread a while ago, I have to say that I admire Deezee and Pavil from not revealing that they not only knew how the Luxor levitation was performed, but exactly who provided the equipment for the event. As I said before I am a professional Magician and inventor, it is unlikely that I would intentionally reveal the exact details of an Illusion. One of the reasons is that if I, or any other magical inventor had provided the levitation to Mr Angel or any other Magician, they would have made me sign an agreement that I would not allow any other Magician to use the Illusion for a specified number of years, for some reason this is usually seven years. So the argument that Eyewitness put forward that other Magicians would be performing the same Levitations if they knew how, would. It just does not work that way in real life, perhaps Eyewitness should look into the world of Magic and Illusion a little deeper, he would be a lot more clued in on the other side of the coin and also be able to entertain the other many people of the world who really believe that spoons really bend themselves with just a stroke and that Magic is real. Criss Angel uses general Illusions and turns them in on themselves, using the opposite means usually used to perform them. However, to achieve this he often has to resort to video and computer tricks to achieve the required effect to perform them. He has stated that Magic is not the end goal and that his real goal is to prove to the many people who said that he would not make it, wrong. He also has the intention of becoming rich and famous, he will suffer the pain of the bedpartners he has chosen in this goal in good time. Enough said!

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Qwenn]

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Qwenn]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
I am not looking for ' followers ' as you put it. I do not care one iota if any of you deniers ever come to your senses; it would be nice, and gratifying to find one out there with cognitive abilities above that of a common fenny snake, but I do not set my expectations for deniers too high.

Incredible. When you open your mouth, only insults come out.
EVERYONE here is trying to talk to you logically, and refrain from using insults, but you just can't help it, can you?

And then you blame us of insulting you?!? I mean, if we used 10% of your insults on you, you'd probably be crying to some moderator by now, trying to get us banned.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
There have been NO videos posted here that show anything anomalous, except in your imaginations.

What now?!? No videos, that show something anomalous? What are we talking about again? It couldn't be Criss Angel, could it?



Originally posted by eyewitness86
The shadows are caused by angle to light. Editing links pieces of film together for cohesive viewing and thus accounts for the different cameras and shots taken under differing angles and lighting conditions.

Yes, shadows are cast by the angle of the light. But if this angle changes during two shots of what is supposed to be the same moment, or if they even dissapear, that means two preformances were edited together, to look like one.

The same goes for the one person dissapearing and a group of people appearing in the shot that supposedly shows the same moment. Unless of course the audience has some magickal abilities as well..



Originally posted by eyewitness86
You STILL shy away from facing the facts:

This is so funny.. You shy away from questions. Questions, that contain these facts, that you say we are shying away..



Originally posted by eyewitness86
You MUST believe the incredible:

Why oh why does each and every one of your posts make me feel as if you are talking about yourself? We are the ones believing the incredible?!?



Originally posted by eyewitness86
You must believe that Criss has some way of paying witnesses to stay silent and lie for him and act suprised ( are they all Actors Guild members?), yet we never hear of even ONE of these paid witnesses EVER coming forward in any venue, onlione or anywhere else, claiming to be one of the many,

Yeah, you still haven't told me why that is, exactly.. Why has no one so far come out to exclaim in shock, that Criss Angel uses no props and that humans can actually levitate?

You keep saying, it is impossible for the witnesses to keep quiet about how he does it.

Well if this is the case, show me, where these witnesses, that just can't be quiet are coming out, saying that humans actually can levitate. Please show me!

I mean, you think it is hard to keep quiet about wires.. But real human levitation?!? Wouldn't it be a million times harder to keep quiet about that, than some boring wires?

Why are you "shying away" from this question?



Originally posted by eyewitness86
But you won't adres that because the only reply you can give is so ludicrous that even you would be ashamed.

Well, then you adress it. What would be harder to keep quiet about? Props or real human levitation?

And adress this: Since per you it is obviously impossible, for witnesses to stay quiet, please show me one example of them telling how he did it. You're the one saying this. So show me. Where are they telling how he did it? I don't care if they're saying "wires" or "levitation", just show me, where they are saying it, since you claim it is impossible for them not to.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
That is called fraud. Why is no one, not another competitor of Criss ( yes, he has them despite the ravings of the deniers ), not an online expose', nothing.

Just because they're not telling you, doesn't mean they're not talking about it.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
See why I have no faith in your abilities to discern reality? You would believe ANYTHING except what is staring you in the face plain and clear. That says a lot about YOU, but noghting about me.

Do you know what projecting means? Cos you're very good at it.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
PaulRichard ( whom I wish would drop in and spell me for a bit..need to reload and have a smoke!!) thinks that certain entities are responsible, and for all I know he is right.

He also believes he was fighting in a war with his friends from the 12th dimension agains the armies of evil from the 4th, and won. But hey, that's in the past, right... Not even worth mentioning, as he puts it..

It's a good thing, that he mentions it's not even worth mentioning it, whenever he gets a chance to mention it.


You really love believing things, the more impossible the better.. What does that remind me of? Oh yeah, Anti-RGB, that's it...



Originally posted by eyewitness86
I know that many of you will never grasp this; until it happens right in front of you ( and some of you deniers would run shrieking to the ER complaining that someone had spiked your food with '___'!!)

I will tell you this again, because it seems you missed it the 10 times me and others have said it already..

We would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to believe, that human levitation is possible. All the implications of it would be absolutelly AMAZING.

I know you like believing, that we don't want to believe it.. I know it makes you feel special. That's ok. You can feel special all you want. In fact, you don't even need to be condescending to feel special, you know? In both cases it's your brain giving you that feeling.

For some reason new agers need silly beliefs to feel special and important, but hey, to each his own, right?



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 06:37 PM
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Remember""""its not real lol



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 08:15 AM
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I wanted to edit this post, so it could not be misunderstood or even spread disinformation, but that would be hard to do, because we're not supposed to talk about it anyway..


Eyewitness: Contrary to what you still believe, i do understand you, and i'm not trying to attack the messenger. You're the one doing that all the time.

Many of us here were just trying to talk to you, using logic and reason, but you don't want to. You still haven't answered even one real quetion.


P.S. And believe it or not, i'm the supporter of the same thing as you, even if the reason could perhaps be different.

[edit on 1/2/08 by deezee]



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 08:43 AM
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Attach me with suppositions all you like; I have been thru false accusations here before. It does not matter what you think of ME, that should not matter, what you fail to answer with any intelligent responses is the facts I present.

The poster above who claims to be some magician; the whole post is funny. NOT revealing all the secrets that the deniers supposedly know!! How nice of them..sad.

I am misquoted, replied to with answers that make no sense and have no basis in reality, and disparaged because I support medical cannabis in states that have legalized it. I enjoy supporting political causes that make sense; NOT one person has any proof of any kind that I personaly take or abuse or use anything whatsoever. All supposition, as ususal.Attack the messenger and not the evidence he brings; typical of those with a losyt cause.

Believe what you want; continue in ignorance and denying common sense. Go ahead. See if yopu can twist logic and the odds to suit your beliefs, which are mired in nothing but suppositions. I will drop in now and then and see if anyone has found any real proof; any videos of props, any witneses that allege pay offs, anything that counts. If all you guys can do is believe that odds that defy logic are nothing to worry about than you are beyond help.

You are DISHONEST in your replies and you know it. High levitations by Criss have NEVER been shown to have props, there are no props, and you have not one shred of proof of that. There is NO RIGGING on the roof of the Luxor for the Atrium event: you can see clearly that there are NO wires, supports, tackle, etc,.there. The Hotal would NEVER allow someone to just hang a block and tackle from the roof of a hotel ILLEGAL!!

ANY alteration to the hotel or any addition meant to bear weight MUST have permits pulled and the work verified by experts. you think Vegas hotels just let people attach rigging just for the heck of it? Also, the rigging must be INVISIBLE and you know it. You FAIL on all counts. Your beliefs are from supposing and NOT from evidence.

This is a waste of time; you are not willing to learn and grow, you arew content to stay mired in the past and in disbelief of the facts....Ok. Thats your right. But just do not believe that there are props at the high levitations because no proof for them exists. you have not shown it, proved it, and only have imagined it and asked everyone else to imagine it also.

Casting pearls before swine is a waste of time. those who are stubborn and believe in what they imagine instead of what they can prove, are beyond hope. One day you will be forced to admit I am right, and of course you will not have the decency to apologize..you will just claim that you really never disbelieved all along, and that the proof we gave just wasn't enough...corrupt and bankrupt intellectually and dishonest as well, not only with me, but more sadly, with yourselves.

The next post from you deniers hopefully will have the EVIDENCE that proves your point and not some supposition that insults the sound mind. I will not respon any longer to nonsense; I will wait until some proof is offered or some reply better than the pathetic nonsense we have suffered thru for so long. Put up or shut up!! Some PROOF or admit that you are just guessing! Try honestty for a change with yourself, and then it will find its way to others.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
I am misquoted,

Where are you misquoted? I pull everything directly from your posts.



replied to with answers that make no sense and have no basis in reality,


What parts make no sense, be specific.
How do you know what has a basis in reality? What degree's do you have in structural engineering and physics?



and disparaged because I support medical cannabis in states that have legalized it.


So do I. See we have something in common.


Attack the messenger and not the evidence he brings; typical of those with a losyt cause.


Hmm, sounds familiar.... oh ya "pearls before swine" thats your line right? Calling us pigs over and over....


See if yopu can twist logic and the odds to suit your beliefs, which are mired in nothing but suppositions.


Once again I ask you, what odds? What are the odds? Show me your math, show me your consensus data, show me the contact list you have comprised.



. If all you guys can do is believe that odds that defy logic are nothing to worry about than you are beyond help.


See above.



You are DISHONEST in your replies and you know it.


Where and when? What have i posted that you believe is dishonest. This is a serious claim as it goes directly against the TAC of ATS. Back this claim up or remove it from your vocabulary.



High levitations by Criss have NEVER been shown to have props, there are no props, and you have not one shred of proof of that.


You have no proof that Criss Angel has honed his skills of levitation over the years of his life either. If you do have evidence that directly contradicts this statement, please present it.



There is NO RIGGING on the roof of the Luxor for the Atrium event:


Really, when was the last time you were at the Luxor to check this out for yourself?


The Hotal would NEVER allow someone to just hang a block and tackle from the roof of a hotel ILLEGAL!!


And of course, you've gone through the Las Vegas building records and reviews process to back this up right?



you have not shown it, proved it, and only have imagined it and asked everyone else to imagine it also.


Nor have you proven that Criss Angel has honed his abilities over the years to levitate. You assume he has, because of what you see on youtube.



Casting pearls before swine is a waste of time.


Theres that line again...



those who are stubborn and believe in what they imagine instead of what they can prove, are beyond hope.


You said it, bubba.



One day you will be forced to admit I am right, and of course you will not have the decency to apologize..you will just claim that you really never disbelieved all along,


Such a large assumption.

let me ask you something, and hopefully you will actually reply. When David Copperfield was master of illusions, including levitation, his entire stage crew knew exactly what was going on, but not one of them came forward to out his illusion. Why?


corrupt and bankrupt intellectually and dishonest as well, not only with me, but more sadly, with yourselves.


Whatever you say man, I know where I stand in life.



The next post from you deniers hopefully will have the EVIDENCE that proves your point and not some supposition that insults the sound mind.


The next post from YOU hopefully will have the EVIDENCE LIST that I have been asking for, for most of this thread, instead of empty beliefs and insults.




I will not respon any longer to nonsense; I will wait until some proof is offered or some reply better than the pathetic nonsense we have suffered thru for so long.


I still await all of the evidence you say you have.



Put up or shut up!!


We have put up all of our research. You have yet to provide one iota of evidence that is not from Mind Freak.



Some PROOF or admit that you are just guessing!


Please prove, directly, that Criss Angel has honed his ability to levitate.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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After watching multiple Presidential debates I have come to the conclusion that Eyewitness is in fact a politician.

How else could he be able to bob and weave around questions without ever answering the questions directed at him. Ask eyewitness a question and he will go into a 3 minute monologue about everything except that question. And he uses stump speeches as we have all witnessed in response to repeated attempts at getting an direct answer. When in fact he does attempt to answer, it is with such vagary that would do a Presidential hopeful proud.

So here it is: We will be talking about the whole of CA's work here since if it can be shown that he has does things in certain stunts we can call into question all of his events.

Eyewitness:

Explain away the anomalies we have shown in the
1.Building to Building ( Clouds, Man on ground, Landing, sway)
2.Golf Course,
3.CA Car Chicken,
4. CA motorcycle jump for starters.
5. Girl levitation at the Fremont.


Do you claim that Criss Angel never manipulates his videos to give the impression of something that in fact, never occurred. Please a Yes or No then you can follow with your certain to be voluminous rebuttal.

For example has CA ever edited two takes of an "event" giving the impression of a single event? Again a Yes or No then supply your evidence for your position.

And finally, have you ever spoken personally to a person who attended one of CA's filimings of his events. You claim numerous people to have attended those so it should not be hard to find someone to talk to right?

And the dancing begins............

Good luck in the elections.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
You are DISHONEST in your replies and you know it. High levitations by Criss have NEVER been shown to have props, there are no props, and you have not one shred of proof of that. There is NO RIGGING on the roof of the Luxor for the Atrium event: you can see clearly that there are NO wires, supports, tackle, etc,.there. The Hotal would NEVER allow someone to just hang a block and tackle from the roof of a hotel ILLEGAL!!

ANY alteration to the hotel or any addition meant to bear weight MUST have permits pulled and the work verified by experts. you think Vegas hotels just let people attach rigging just for the heck of it? Also, the rigging must be INVISIBLE and you know it. You FAIL on all counts. Your beliefs are from supposing and NOT from evidence.



And I suppose you have investigated this and found no evidence of CA or another company performing work Luxor near the date of CA's Luxor Levitation.

You do have the date of his levitation right?

Just FYI, I have tried to look for that info, but you need the exact permit number to even check or at least an idea of when the inspection occurred.
here is the Luxor's official address;

3900 Las Vegas Boulevard South, Las Vegas, NV 89119

here is the site for the building inspection dept.

www.lasvegasnevada.gov...

Without exact info you can't get anywhere looking there.


You did do all this prior to your tirade right?

There are other factors you have to take into consideration at the Luxor as well.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
After watching multiple Presidential debates I have come to the conclusion that Eyewitness is in fact a politician.

How else could he be able to bob and weave around questions without ever answering the questions directed at him. Ask eyewitness a question and he will go into a 3 minute monologue about everything except that question. And he uses stump speeches as we have all witnessed in response to repeated attempts at getting an direct answer. When in fact he does attempt to answer, it is with such vagary that would do a Presidential hopeful proud.

So here it is: We will be talking about the whole of CA's work here since if it can be shown that he has does things in certain stunts we can call into question all of his events.

Eyewitness:

Explain away the anomalies we have shown in the
1.Building to Building ( Clouds, Man on ground, Landing, sway)
2.Golf Course,
3.CA Car Chicken,
4. CA motorcycle jump for starters.
5. Girl levitation at the Fremont.


Do you claim that Criss Angel never manipulates his videos to give the impression of something that in fact, never occurred. Please a Yes or No then you can follow with your certain to be voluminous rebuttal.

For example has CA ever edited two takes of an "event" giving the impression of a single event? Again a Yes or No then supply your evidence for your position.

And finally, have you ever spoken personally to a person who attended one of CA's filimings of his events. You claim numerous people to have attended those so it should not be hard to find someone to talk to right?

And the dancing begins............

Good luck in the elections.



i'm with this guy. keep those brains working.... we need answers. yes i personally think he's privy to the anti gravity...



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Qwenn
One of the reasons is that if I, or any other magical inventor had provided the levitation to Mr Angel or any other Magician, they would have made me sign an agreement that I would not allow any other Magician to use the Illusion for a specified number of years, for some reason this is usually seven years. [edit on 31-1-2008 by Qwenn]

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Qwenn]


Exactly,the props used for high levitations are incredibly expensive also.
Only Hollywood budgets can afford the rights and equipment to pull off most of Angels tricks and thats why we dont see other T.V street magicians doing what he does,they just cant afford it.
Alot of well respected magicians work with him so its almost like a team effort with his work,and a big happy family.
It would be very disrespectful if another magician started copying his style and would be lawful if the same methods were utilized.(many,very fine wires,shhh)
His style is so far fetched and the budget so high,its impossible to compete.
Street magic now feels tacky thanks to this charlaton! His style is so vulgar.
At least Blaine had good card control.

I respect eyewitness' view on this one and staying power,I believe man has/maybe still can levitate.Its also good to believe in "stuff"
But I know Criss Angel is just a bad,overpaid magician who uses many camera tricks and stooges.
No disrespect but why didnt he fly up and save some people on 911,imagine the front pages,his team would of loved it!



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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There's no way most of that stuff is actually real. It's on tv. On tv anything is possible. As for the audiences, they're all staged. In order to even consider that kindof stuff being real you have to be there in person to make sure no special effects were used (at least as far as cameras go). Btw here's a link that explains some of his illusions www.youtube.com...

Well even if most of it is fake it's still entertaining.

[edit on 4-2-2008 by MissInformation]



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