criss angel discussion...

Originally posted by they see ALL

Originally posted by mwen
Man you should have see the earlier one a few years ago...He came out of nowhere and start walking up the wall...I went banana after I saw it...

amazing

i really want to know how to levitate like he did...

and i really want to be able to explain how he does all of this "magic"

Have you seen the episode were he levitates a girl in a park after hypnotizing her...unbelievable. David Blaine also does the levitation trick.. Don't forget that TV is part of the illusion and not merely the place that you see it.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Okay, this whole business of pavil, deezee and Qwenn claiming to know how the illusions are done but refusing to tell is just garbage. People are giving you guys stars for this??

First of all, in the posts you are talking about, Pavil and I didn't claim to know how it was done. We were talking about the fact, that it would be pointless to show it to him.

In fact, we figured certain illusions out many pages ago, which was when Qwenn contacted us, and confirmed our explanation.


By now, Eyewitness has proven, that he won't listen to logic, so i don't think anyone is trying to "win" this conversation anyway..
We were just trying to discuss it, but it simply didn't work.


But!
If Eyewitness were to adress my questions one by one, like i do his, i will (once again) tell my explanation of how two specific illusions were done.
I will only tell the things i figured out myself, not what Qwenn told me or even showed me. That is up to him.

But unless Eyewitness starts answering my questions, i don't see the point, in telling him anything. And this is what the posts you were refering to, were all about.


I could break someones trust, and all i would get back from Eyewitness would be even more insults. Do you really think it's worth it? I don't think so.

[edit on 7/2/08 by deezee]

Originally posted by atlasastro
Have you seen the episode were he levitates a girl in a park after hypnotizing her...unbelievable. David Blaine also does the levitation trick.

. Don't forget that TV is part of the illusion and not merely the place that you see it.

I think I have seen that one ( were you talking to me ). And, yes, TV is part of the illusion I guess.




[edit on 7-2-2008 by they see ALL]

Originally posted by they see ALL
And, yes, TV is part of the illusion I guess.

You are right.

With Criss Angel, the possibilities offered by the TV are a very big part of the illusion.


The sawing in half trick could not have been done without a camera cut in the middle (where he hides into the table) and an "audience", paid not to notice this.

Oh, and video editing, to remove a certain "object" out of it.


David Copperfield did the same thing, but he used a box to hide the movements required, to hide inside the table. Criss Angel simply turned the camera off while doing this.


So... Which one is more impressive?

Originally posted by pavil

If you can't figure out the Luxor Floatdown yourself, then I don't know what to say, it's pretty obvious how it is achieved.

Ask yourself these questions:

Why are there two blurs in the sky in the Golf Course levitation?

Why all the anomalies in the Building to Building video?

Why does Criss Angel never show the 200 to 300 feet above him as he leviatates?

Yes I understand what you are getting at, that there is something in the sky above him which is lifting him with invisible wires. A balloon, a helicopter, a crane, something.

My problem with this has always been, they would NOT be able to hide equipment like that from all the eyewitnesses. Sure, maybe SOME of the witnesses are plants, paid accomplices etc - but ALL??

What specific equipment is used to lift him, and HOW is it kept hidden from the witnesses?

Also, if CA is simply hanging from invisible wires - then there would be a very noticeable "pendulum swing" effect, especially when he moves laterally like in the building-to-building. And yet the motion is always so smooth and controlled when he levitates, with no noticeable pendulum swing.

Now, admittedly, I have kind of been in and out of the thread and haven't read all 100 pages, so if these questions have already been addressed then I apologize. But I got the impression that there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

If you really know how these levitations are done, you should be able to answer these simple questions. WHAT is the equipment used to lift him, HOW do they solve the pendulum-swing problem, and HOW is the equipment kept hidden from all the eyewitnesses? That's all I would really like to know....

Give me your rationale for your stance on Criss Angel. Does he have Supernatural/ Superhuman / Mystical powers?

I am still undecided. I am really starting to think that all of us have been wrong the entire time, and anti-gravity technology is actually being used.

Yes I know, it sounds crazy, but it would explain a LOT of things.

It would explain exactly how CA is able to do these high levitations out in public in broad daylight, in seemingly any kind of scenario with any number of eyewitnesses, with no need to pay off witnesses to keep them quiet. It solves the pendulum-swing problem and the problem of hiding balloons, helicopters, cranes etc from the witnesses. It would also explain why the Luxor staff were willing to allow him to do the incredibly dangerous Floatdown stunt.

I'm still open to the possibility that they really are all Illusions, IF my questions above can be answered properly. ("There's just something in the sky above him which is being edited out later" doesn't cut it. WHAT is it, WHY isn't it creating pendulum-swing, and HOW is it kept hidden from the witnesses?)

As for "Supernatural" powers, I actually think most people are being much too quick to rule that out. People having the ability to levitate, teleport, alter solid matter, heal people etc etc - there are reports of that that are hundreds, thousands of years old, well before there were such things as cameras and production crews and film editing

Say another "Jesus"/"Criss Angel" comes along - another guy who levitates, walks on water, turns water into wine (or beer ), and defies Death - will he just be dismissed as another "Illusionist"?

WHAT will it take to make people ask themselves, wait a minute, could that really be real? Could these "Prophet" guys have some special advanced DNA or something that actually gives them these abilities for real???

Originally posted by pavil
Don't you find it odd that no one, either confirming or denying CA's levitatons has ever managed to post something on a website about any of those Mindfreak Levitations? Please look and tell me what you find.

[edit on 6-2-2008 by pavil]

Yes, I do find that odd actually. That the eyewitnesses are keeping so quiet. You would think there would be people going, "Yeah I was there at the building-to-building, and there was a frickin hot-air balloon in the sky above him, they actually paid me to act all amazed by it LOL!"

Or "Yeah I was there at the golf course and it was amazing! There was nothing at all in the sky above him, he was just floating in the air!!!"

Don't forget though, there was "1 true criss angel fan", who said that CA levitated HIM!

I will save you a lot of reading and answer a few questions. The people who say there are props in the high levitations claim the following:

All witnesses are paid actors that lie and act suprised when Criss deceives the viewer by using props that are then later eliminated from the video tape by means of editing. They claim that witnesses are all loyal because they sign some sort of alleged contract, never seen or proven, that details dire consequences for anyone that breaks the vow of silence and reveals that Criss paid them to lie.

They also insist that props are used that cannot be seen or verified. They claim to know the answer, but it is obviously just another guess. They have guessed at wires, and platforms, and all kinds of things; but they never have shown them, or shown how they could have been used, and they simply will ignore the things like sway of a pendulum nature if hanging...and the Luxor event really bothers them because the light is so bright that any props would be seen, and Criss is virtually motionless as he rises and lowers; no platform is possible, or would be seen.

They point to obscure artifacts like camera angles and such, desperate for some thing to show; but never do they show us some other performer doing the same thing, or a video of how it was done without props showing. They suppose, and guess, and imagine, but they never deliver. They never show us, they only ask us to believe them. They want us to trust them when they say that they have all the answers; They will not share them..No. Not beecause they are vacuous and empty guesses..of course not..it is because mean old EW 86 just will not believe it if they did tell us!! Sounds like a great reason to withhold the truth, eh?

They try and come up with all sorts of ways thgat it MAY have been done, but never with anything but words; no props that are sold or patented that could account for the Luxor event, no helicopters above him, no sky hooks!! Nothing but open sky and Criss. I called the Luxor personally and spoke to the chief of Engineering and asked him pointed questions about the event, and he said that there was ' nothing up there but Criss and the light."

Orf course the deniers claim that he TOO is paid off and ordered to lie for Criss! They will believe ANYTHING except the fact that Criss did not use props in that levitation and others. They will believe in the most far flung conspiracies, paid liars and actors that remain loyal forever..editors that make props disappear from film so Criss can defraud the public. Thsese are all quotes from them; they will believe any tale or any excuse, as long as there is a prop at the end of it, even ones that do not exist and cannot be proven.

Because they cannot believe in human beings levitating, their paradigms are so narrow and experience so limited, that they will instead believe in what cannot be seen, examined , proven or even alleged by a competent authority. They rely on this: Their certainty that no man can levitate and the belief that props must exist despite their inability to prove their reality. All they have is supposition and assumption, no hard evidence, no one else repeating the same events WITH props showing how they were made invisible, etc. Nothing. Zero.

To them, Criss is never replicated because, and get this : All the others out there are too honest to make money defrauding the public like Criss does!! Can you believe that? They actually have the nerve to say that only Criss is low enough to deceive the public and make a fortune doing so..all the other are just too honest to do it also! Amazing, isn't it? it gets worse, believe me. Some excuses make you want to just shake your head and wonder how people could have so little shale that they could propose such outlandish reasons for a lack of evidence..it staggers the sound mind, it really does.

So read on; we have offered many times to relent and admit defeat and resign from ATS and eat all the crow the deniers can dish out: Just show us one solid piece of EVIDENCE that proves conclusively that Crissed used props in the Luxor levitation....he has done many but for simplicity, that one stands as the best. There is NO WAY that peops could have been used and not seen. That is all there is to it: No props were used.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Also, if CA is simply hanging from invisible wires - then there would be a very noticeable "pendulum swing" effect, especially when he moves laterally like in the building-to-building. And yet the motion is always so smooth and controlled when he levitates, with no noticeable pendulum swing.

Who's motion in the building to building video is the same as CA as he levitates? I'll give you a hint he is below CA. Pretty easy to solve the "sway" issue there, if you really look. There was a reason the man was removed from the video in other shots. That's also why they couldn't solve the sway issue when he "launches" at the start as has been shown in the explanation video.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Yes, I do find that odd actually. That the eyewitnesses are keeping so quiet. You would think there would be people going, "Yeah I was there at the building-to-building, and there was a frickin hot-air balloon in the sky above him, they actually paid me to act all amazed by it LOL!"

Or "Yeah I was there at the golf course and it was amazing! There was nothing at all in the sky above him, he was just floating in the air!!!"

See, finally a good question!


I asked Eyewitness this at least 10 times, but he is ignoring me completelly by now..


So i will ask you.. What do you think, would be harder to keep quiet about?
- "It's an illusion, using wires / some other prop!" (which would get the answer "Duh, everyone knows that it's an illusion.")

OR

- It's NOT an illusion! People really CAN levitate by themselves! It's amazing!


Which of these two things do you think would be harder to pay people to keep quiet about?



Oh, and you asked if it is possible to pay a quite large audience, to keep quiet..

Please read my repeated explanation of the sawing in half illusion.
It requires:
- A camera "switch" - turn OFF, when he is hiding into the table, then turn back ON, pretending to be just a switch of the camera, when in reality, quite a bit of time passed in between.
- A quite large "audience" paid not to notice what was going on between camera OFF and camera back ON and also a very apparent object below the table.
- Video editing to remove that certain object below the table.

The "audience" in that illusion was quite large. And all of them had to be paid. Unless most of them were brought in after Criss was "mounted" in the table.

This is the part i figured out myself, after which Qwenn contacted me.



You also asked about the sway.. It can be solved with a third wire from above (golf course), or held by the guy below (building to building) as Pavil pointed out. Still, in the lift off and landing, the sway was present. Besides, that video is proof of a very extensive video editing. At least two preformances stiched together to look as one. They threw the failures out and only kept the best bits.


And about the Luxor levitation..
When i was trying to figure that one out, at first i was thinking about the helicopter circling Criss being there to conceal the sound of another helicopter. But in that particular one, Criss is COMPLETELLY motionless. No sway, no nothing. I know from experience, that helicopters can not be kept that motionless. Even with an advanced automatic hover system it can't be that still. So this explanation is impossible.

But then Eyewitness said, "That is the most powerfull light in the world, what better illumination can you ask for?".

Light as powerfull as that can also be used to conceal, because it's so powerfull it actually illuminates the air. So i thought the most likely explanation would be a hydraulic pillar raising a black stick from the tip of the pyramid. The light illuminating the air around it would make it invisible. And as the light turns off, it would be invisible, since it's black. A transparent one could work as well.

Another explanation would be what IgnorantApe posted. But it would probably again require three wires, to keep him that motionless.


Again, all i posted here is what i came up with myself. I left out what Qwenn confirmed and showed me.


And i would like to point out one more thing. You said we are claiming to know how it was done.

But in fact, we didn't.

Both Pavil and me still tried using logic in this discussion, even after talking to Qwenn. It wasn't untill a while later, when Qwenn posted, that we figured it out, that this started. I never even mentioned this, untill he did. And i believe, neither did Pavil.

So Eyewitness saying that we are using secrecy as proof is just stupid. Because we didn't even mention it ourselves.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I am still undecided. I am really starting to think that all of us have been wrong the entire time, and anti-gravity technology is actually being used.

I would love to believe this is possible at all.

But you need to think of it this way.. What would be cheaper? Getting some ultra secret technology from the government (if it exists) or simply using wires and paying some people?

Besides, why complicate, when you can do it the easy way. (And much cheaper)

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
As for "Supernatural" powers, I actually think most people are being much too quick to rule that out. People having the ability to levitate, teleport, alter solid matter, heal people etc etc - there are reports of that that are hundreds, thousands of years old, well before there were such things as cameras and production crews and film editing.

Again, i would love to believe this is possible.

In fact, i used to believe it was, many years ago, when i was very young. I spent MANY YEARS studying spirituality and supernatural abilities, even trying to learn and practice them, but ultimatelly VERIFY them.

I did actually get some results, but i can't say for sure, if they were real, or just a very odd coincidence, which does happen sometimes, even if unlikelly.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Say another "Jesus"/"Criss Angel" comes along - another guy who levitates, walks on water, turns water into wine (or beer

), and defies Death - will he just be dismissed as another "Illusionist"?

Well, if another "saviour" would come along, i kinda doubt, he would spend his time doing magic tricks, and even debunking people who say they have paranormal abilities.

I would sooner believe, he would try to teach people something, and use his abilities for something good.

He wouldn't say he doesn't have these abilities, and that others don't either, but would show them to us, to proove it is real, instead of us having to rely on faith alone.

He would let it be verified, because only that way could we learn something from it.


That is, IF such a "saviour" actually existed and came to us.


But hey, this is just my oppinion. Still i think it's worth at least considering.

Originally posted by deezee
So i will ask you.. What do you think, would be harder to keep quiet about?
- "It's an illusion, using wires / some other prop!" (which would get the answer "Duh, everyone knows that it's an illusion.")

OR

- It's NOT an illusion! People really CAN levitate by themselves! It's amazing!

Which of these two things do you think would be harder to pay people to keep quiet about?

I have to disagree with you here. If Team CA's goal is to make CA the greatest magician ever, they would want to make the illusions as believable as possible to any and all eyewitnesses. They would NOT want to keep resorting to paid audiences over and over again. If word got out that CA was simply being lifted by say a hot-air balloon or some such thing, and they were bringing in whole paid audiences to pretend to be amazed by that - I think CA would very quickly become a laughing stock!

No, I think at least SOME of the witnesses in the audience, are REAL, unpaid, witnesses. Which is why I keep asking for the specifics of how equipment could be used to lift CA while simultaneously being kept COMPLETELY hidden from the witnesses!

- It's NOT an illusion! People really CAN levitate by themselves! It's amazing!

Well, I think that's one of those truths that hides itself, because it's so far outside of the everyday reality of most people. To the point that I think a lot of the witnesses are simply too embarrassed to go around telling their friends, family, neighbors etc that they saw someone levitate for real

Originally posted by deezee

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I am still undecided. I am really starting to think that all of us have been wrong the entire time, and anti-gravity technology is actually being used.

I would love to believe this is possible at all.

But you need to think of it this way.. What would be cheaper? Getting some ultra secret technology from the government (if it exists) or simply using wires and paying some people?

Hey, I see this as just the sort of thing those evil black ops guys would do. Instead of publicly disclosing the technology to benefit humanity, I can see them privately giving someone like CA a device, "Here, use this to screw with people's heads and create a spectacular mystery they'll never be able to solve! And make yourself rich and famous in the process."

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Say another "Jesus"/"Criss Angel" comes along - another guy who levitates, walks on water, turns water into wine (or beer

), and defies Death - will he just be dismissed as another "Illusionist"?

Well, if another "saviour" would come along, i kinda doubt, he would spend his time doing magic tricks, and even debunking people who say they have paranormal abilities.

Note that I made the comparison to Jesus because CA and Jesus perform a lot of the same "miracles" - not because of any "saviour"-like or God-like behavior on CA's part....

It's interesting that, whenever someone comes along with these abilities, we feel the need to either deify them and worship them as God/saviour - or dismiss them as "just a magician".

Is the possibility of an advanced human being with maybe advanced or mutated DNA and enhanced abilities really so hard to believe? Seen X-Men lately?

Originally posted by eyewitness86
All witnesses are paid actors that lie and act suprised

WRONG. Some of them most definately are. In fact, id say most of them are, accept in the case of the luxor light levitation. The reason this one stunt is different, because he is so high up, you cant make out what exactly is above the luxor.

They claim that witnesses are all loyal because they sign some sort of alleged contract,

Im sure NDE's play a role in it

never seen or proven,

That would be the point of NDE's.

They have guessed at wires, and platforms, and all kinds of things; but they never have shown them,

Digital editing tends to make that impossible.

or shown how they could have been used,

That is simply an outright lie.

and they simply will ignore the things like sway of a pendulum nature if hanging...

No my friend, it is YOU that ignore such things. We brought this up when examining the B2B exposure vid, and you brushed it off as if we were stupid.

and the Luxor event really bothers them because the light is so bright that any props would be seen, and Criss is virtually motionless as he rises and lowers; no platform is possible, or would be seen.

Considering you cant see CA from the ground, how would a platform, most likely coloured with concealment in mind, be seen?

or a video of how it was done without props showing.

Why bother? You've done a good enough job of that for us.

They suppose, and guess, and imagine, but they never deliver.

Speaking of delivering, im still waiting for you list of evidence and your statistical data.

' nothing up there but Criss and the light."

Uhh, just a quick thought, what if the light is the platform? Or more specifically, what if the platform was modified or retrofitted around the light?

as long as there is a prop at the end of it, even ones that do not exist and cannot be proven.

And you of course, have scoured the internet looking at magicians trades, illusionist crafters and the likes?

All they have is supposition and assumption, no hard evidence,

Where is YOUR hard evidence of his levitation abilities?

no one else repeating the same events WITH props showing how they were made invisible, etc. Nothing. Zero.

You get me the capital to start purchasing the equipment and pay a team to do what is required and ill do the rest.

To them, Criss is never replicated because, and get this : All the others out there are too honest to make money defrauding the public like Criss does!!

Actually for me, its more likely because CA has the backing of a major network and a hotel in Las Vegas to foot the bill.

Im willing to wager that he is one of the most backed magicians out there. Care to prove me wrong?


[edit on 7-2-2008 by InSpiteOf]

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I have to disagree with you here. If Team CA's goal is to make CA the greatest magician ever, they would want to make the illusions as believable as possible to any and all eyewitnesses. They would NOT want to keep resorting to paid audiences over and over again. If word got out that CA was simply being lifted by say a hot-air balloon or some such thing, and they were bringing in whole paid audiences to pretend to be amazed by that - I think CA would very quickly become a laughing stock!

Again, I am sure you have not followed this whole saga. We have shown numerous "acts" of Criss Angel to be splicing of two totally different shots. The Motorcyle and the Car Chicken spring to mind as well as the building to building levitation. Other tricks have been disected showing the flaws in the video or evidence of the same people being used in the "crowds". All in all, CA rarely in the show performs a feat of magic infront of more that a couple dozen people at a time. It's his physical stunts that are performed in front of the large crowds.

You are getting it wrong, the only audience CA needs to be believeable to is the TV audience. Think about the name of the show "to freak the mind". He bends perception and fools the brain into seeing something that's not really there or vice versa. He' s not a laughing stock, just laughing all the way to the bank. At a elemental level his show is classic magic and misdirection, to the point of even showing the audience some of the cons that can be used. He just uses technology and media instead of sleight of hand for many of his tricks.

You however are entitled to believe whatever you want. I stand by my assertions as they have been researched far more than any evidence eyewitness has brought up to support his viewpoint. I have shown that one of the companies that supplies the very strong, very thin wire is based out of Las Vegas. Many Professional Magician suppliers and designers are based out of Las Vegas. It is no coincidence that CA moved out west to the Mecca of Magic, Las Vegas, and then really hit the big time.

I noticed you didn't take me up on my challenge of counting the "crowds" at the levitations? Is there some reason for that? What number did you come up with for the average. TV, especially an edited show can give you some very false impressions.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by deezee
So i will ask you.. What do you think, would be harder to keep quiet about?
- "It's an illusion, using wires / some other prop!" (which would get the answer "Duh, everyone knows that it's an illusion.")
OR
- It's NOT an illusion! People really CAN levitate by themselves! It's amazing!

Which of these two things do you think would be harder to pay people to keep quiet about?

I have to disagree with you here. If Team CA's goal is to make CA the greatest magician ever, they would want to make the illusions as believable as possible to any and all eyewitnesses.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

If team CA's goal is to make him the greatest magician (illusionist) ever, then this also means, that people can not know, how he does his illusions.

I mean, everybody knows it's an illusion, but it's fascinating only, when we don't know how it's done.


But my question was something else.
If you were an actor, paid to act as part of the audience, and be "surprised" and "amazed" and so on, what would be harder for you to keep quiet about?

1. Wires?
or
2. Real f****** levitation?!?


If you ask me, i would gladly accept payment, to stay quiet about wires or some other prop.
But real human levitation and all the implication it brings with it? I don't think i could keep quiet about that.


And the fact is, that even tho Eyewitness keeps saying it is impossible to pay people to stay quiet, i don't see them saying anything either way.

This is why i think this question is important. (And this is probably why Eyewitness is completelly ignoring me by now)

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by deezee
Getting some ultra secret technology from the government (if it exists) or simply using wires and paying some people?

Hey, I see this as just the sort of thing those evil black ops guys would do. Instead of publicly disclosing the technology to benefit humanity, I can see them privately giving someone like CA a device, "Here, use this to screw with people's heads and create a spectacular mystery they'll never be able to solve! And make yourself rich and famous in the process."

How exactly would this achieve anything, since the 99% of people would never even start guessing in the direction of an anti-gravity device.

Besides, if it exists, i think the government would keep it VERY secret. Very, VERY secret.
And if they wanted it to slowly seep into the minds of humans, they wouldn't use an illusionist for it. Because an illusionist implies illusions.

Also, by now, people have shown specific differences and limitations in each of the levitations. That is because different approaches were used.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
It's interesting that, whenever someone comes along with these abilities, we feel the need to either deify them and worship them as God/saviour - or dismiss them as "just a magician".

Who feels this need?

The only "need" i feel is the one for verification of claims of the paranormal. If they're for some reason not verifiable, they are not real, or at least completelly useless.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Is the possibility of an advanced human being with maybe advanced or mutated DNA and enhanced abilities really so hard to believe? Seen X-Men lately?

Hmm...

The more you know about something, the more obvious it becomes, that it's not just that simple. Sci-fi uses pseudo science and techno babble, to confuse and give an appearance of scientific validity, to people, who don't understand those words.

If you do understand them, it often becomes painfully obvious, how wrong they are.

Another consequence of this, is that people start misunderstanding certain words. And then they use those misunderstood words, to build their own "theories" upon, which in the end, make no sense whatsoever, because of that.


On the other hand, as i said before, i do understand you, and some 15 years ago i might even agree with you. As i said before, i used to be a "believer" myself, as a kid. But the more i researched spirituality and people with supernatural claims, the more obvious it became, that it's all just in their mind.


Still, i'm open to accepting it is possible, but only if it can be verified, and explained in a way, that makes sense, as opposed to a bunch of meaningless pseudo scientific or even new age words.

Originally posted by pavil
You are getting it wrong, the only audience CA needs to be believeable to is the TV audience.

If you say so, but how did he get on TV in the first place? By performing incredible magic in front of real, UNPAID audiences, no?

Think about the name of the show "to freak the mind". He bends perception and fools the brain into seeing something that's not really there or vice versa. He' s not a laughing stock, just laughing all the way to the bank. At a elemental level his show is classic magic and misdirection, to the point of even showing the audience some of the cons that can be used. He just uses technology and media instead of sleight of hand for many of his tricks.

Look, if everything on Mindfreak is just equipment, actors and editing - then it's no different than any sci-fi or action TV show or movie. It's no longer MAGIC.

The whole point of MAGIC, is to perform for people who AREN'T paid to act all shocked and amazed

I stand by my assertion that many of the witnesses to the high levitations are real, UNPAID witnesses. If the levitations are illusions, the equipment used is being hidden from the witnesses somehow - and you still have not met the challenge to specify precisely what equipment is used, and exactly how it is kept hidden from the witnesses

I noticed you didn't take me up on my challenge of counting the "crowds" at the levitations? Is there some reason for that? What number did you come up with for the average. TV, especially an edited show can give you some very false impressions.

LOL, and you still haven't taken up the challenge of specifying the exact equipment used for the building-to-building and golf course, and exactly how it is kept hidden from all the witnesses

Instead, you fell back - AGAIN - on the same old argument that they don't bother to hide the equipment from the witnesses, and the witnesses aren't even real witnesses but all paid actors. Which would be akin to filming a scene for a movie or TV show, and isn't even MAGIC at all! The whole point of MAGIC, is to perform for UNPAID witnesses.

You don't meet the challenge - because you CAN'T! Which is what eyewitness has been saying all along

Anyway, yes, you have a point, many of the levitations have a relatively small number of witnesses. Maybe a dozen or two at the golf course, a few dozen at the building-to-building. Although the Luxor Floatdown one could have had hundreds of witnesses - pretty much anyone not in their rooms could see it.

Originally posted by deezee

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I have to disagree with you here. If Team CA's goal is to make CA the greatest magician ever, they would want to make the illusions as believable as possible to any and all eyewitnesses.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

If team CA's goal is to make him the greatest magician (illusionist) ever, then this also means, that people can not know, how he does his illusions.

Yes, you got it, that is exactly what I was saying! They would want to perform the illusion in front of real, UNPAID witnesses, and make it as amazing and convincing as possible.

They would NOT want to simply film a scene using blatantly obvious equipment and actors, the same way production crews film scenes all around the world every day - which isn't even magic at all! I think if Team CA were really doing that, they would have been exposed long ago and they would be a laughing stock by now.

CA is where he is because he has whole legions of real, unpaid witnesses who have been present at these illusions and who are utterly mystified.

But my question was something else.
If you were an actor, paid to act as part of the audience, and be "surprised" and "amazed" and so on, what would be harder for you to keep quiet about?

1. Wires?
or
2. Real f****** levitation?!?


If you ask me, i would gladly accept payment, to stay quiet about wires or some other prop.
But real human levitation and all the implication it brings with it? I don't think i could keep quiet about that.

Really, you wouldn't feel the slightest bit weird going around to friends, family, coworkers, neighbors etc, and telling them "Man, CA can really levitate! No it's not an illusion, I was there and I saw him levitate for REAL, man! CA has psychic powers for real!!!" ?

You wouldn't be even the slightest bit afraid that people would think you're a nut or a fool?

Come on, be honest.

I know what I'm talking about here - just try going around trying to explain to people that we really are being visited by extraterrestrials, or that 9/11 was really an inside job, etc etc

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
If you say so, but how did he get on TV in the first place? By performing incredible magic in front of real, UNPAID audiences, no?

Im sure CA uses misdirection and slieght of hand in some of his tricks, but the biggest stunts, the ones he is famous for, are nothing but smoke and mirrors and editing.

Look, if everything on Mindfreak is just equipment, actors and editing - then it's no different than any sci-fi or action TV show or movie. It's no longer MAGIC.

Not EVERYTHING on MindFreak is just equipment, just his bigger stunts that seem supernatural. Other stunts are props, sleight of hand, misdirection, and other classic magical components.

The whole point of MAGIC, is to perform for people who AREN'T paid to act all shocked and amazed

Yup, and he preforms for you and I, on TV.

Instead, you fell back - AGAIN - on the same old argument that they don't bother to hide the equipment from the witnesses, and the witnesses aren't even real witnesses but all paid actors. Which would be akin to filming a scene for a movie or TV show,

Im sorry, but what, exactly, is Mind Freak again? Oh yea....A TV show, and a Box set of DVD's, you could even call them movies...

and isn't even MAGIC at all! The whole point of MAGIC, is to perform for UNPAID witnesses.

I fail to see what you dont understand. Criss Angel is a preformer, as such he wishes to preform and make money. He is backed by a huge communications network, their goal is to make money. Criss Angel makes money by doing crazy things and thus, so does the network. So, how is his fakeness stopping him from doing that?

You don't meet the challenge - because you CAN'T! Which is what eyewitness has been saying all along

Please dont feed the troll, especially if you havent read through the thread. You've missed pages upon pages of our own research and thought processes. We have met a very large number of his challenges, only to have him say either our answers are crazy or that the event we analyzed was not important and not representative of Criss Angels abilities. After everything we have tried to do in this thread, why would we attempt to go one step further when it falls on deaf ears?

By the way, Eyewitness repeatedly ignores our challenges. Why not go after him?

Anyway, yes, you have a point, many of the levitations have a relatively small number of witnesses.

Doesnt that strike you as odd? I mean, the guy is levitating after all, isnt he?

Maybe a dozen or two at the golf course,

Maybe a dozen, but i doubt 2 dozen.

a few dozen at the building-to-building.

Same as above.

Although the Luxor Floatdown one could have had hundreds of witnesses - pretty much anyone not in their rooms could see it.

Count them. Not that many show up on camera. Interesting considering the Luxor is such a happening place...

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr


Really, you wouldn't feel the slightest bit weird going around to friends, family, coworkers, neighbors etc, and telling them "Man, CA can really levitate! No it's not an illusion, I was there and I saw him levitate for REAL, man! CA has psychic powers for real!!!" ?

You wouldn't be even the slightest bit afraid that people would think you're a nut or a fool?

Come on, be honest.

I would tell them exactly what I saw, nothing more, nothing less.

Come on man.. The internet is as anonymous as you can get, and not one person comes forward to say they saw CA at the B2B levitation and there were no props?