A Freemason spilling it all!!!(except modes of recognition)

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posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by Chasrac64
I would also like to know if the Masonic Bible is the same as the King James? and The Masonic "G" symbol, does this refer to "God" or" Gnostic"
or does it stand for Geometry?


The masonic bible is a King James version bible, with insert and highlights of passages that might be of interest to Freemasons. Nothing more.

As for the "G", in the 2nd degree ritual we are told that it stands for both Geometry and God. Keep in mind that this is only used in America, and not in Europe or other places.




posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by billybob
anyway, is etymology part of the freemasonic tradition?


There HAS been lots of study from masonic authors regarding the history of masonic words. Just yesterday, Senrak made me aware of a book written by Albert Pike which looks into and discusses the history and evolution of the masonic passwords and tokens that we use. This book is, of course, only for masons but it does indeed exist. Senrak has highly recommended it.



is 'morals and dogma' by albert pike required reading for masons? is there ANY required reading?


There is no required reading in Freemasonry. A mason is urged to study and give only as much as he wants to. The more you give to the fraternity, the more you get from it, but many masons are not interested in this.

That being said, a copy of M&D was given out to all Scottish Rite masons upon receiving their 32nd degree, but this has been replaced with a book title A Bridge to Light which is shorter and easier to read. Sadly, though, it is lacking in many respects to M&D. Scottish Rite masons are still encouraged to read M&D, though. I am reading it right now, as a matter of fact.

Keep in mind thatr M&D only applies to the Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry, and only the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States. To Scottish Rite masons in the northern US and any other part of the world, M&D, and Albert Pike for that matter, do not apply and are not considered important at all.



however, i can't help but notice that the things which attract one to become a mason are, according to the propoganda of masonry, really good things. like community, charity, honesty, good works and whatnot. yet, anyone i've talked to on the street, says it's to get into a really good business network.


Unfortunately many men do misrepresent themselves and try to become masons because of the misconception that they will be able to advance their careers. Fortunately, though, they soon realize that this is not the case and eventually stop coming to lodge or even paying dues. Anybody who joins for any reason other than a search for brotherhood and to better themselves and their knowledge thereof will be thoroughly disappointed.



the reason i would want to become a mason, presuming i did want to join, would be to learn what masonry is really all about.


Well I appreciate your honesty, but that is not enough to get you through the West gate. There are more than enough books and information out there for you to learn all you want about Freemasonry. But keep in mind that, in the end, Freemasonry is an experience and the true secrets of Freemasonry are only for those who seek the actual experience. Curiosity has no place in the lodge. Like one person stated previously, the warning to new initiates, written on the wall of French Chamber of Reflection, states:

"V.I.T.R.I.O.L. If curiosity brings you here then LEAVE! There is still time."



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by Chasrac64
Senrak.... Sir Francis Bacon1561-1626
was a man of many talents,a Lawyer,Linquist and composer. He mastered every subject he undertook. Mathematics, Geometry, music, painting, astronomy,classical drama. He was a man of many aims and purposes. the father of modern science,remoldeler of modern Law,patron of modern democracy, and POSSIBLY THE REVIVER OF FREEMASONARY. [snip]


Yes. Thank you. I've read quite a bit about Bacon including the theory of his involvement with Freemasonry (note there's no second "a") but my point was that there WAS NO 33rd Degree until about 1801 when the Mother Supreme Council of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite was formed in Charleston South Carolina. They CLAIMED great antiquity of the degree...but that was to give it more "umph!" No evidence exists to suggest that the 33rd Degree wasn't "created" about 1801, so Bacon couldn't possibly have been one...except perhaps posthumously.

My second point was that probably the vast majority of folks (read: fundamentalists) who toss Bible quotes around and send Freemasons to hell haven't actually READ the Bible in the first place...just parts of it. ...the parts that suit their needs.

Regards,



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
That being said, a copy of M&D was given out to all Scottish Rite masons upon receiving their 32nd degree, but this has been replaced with a book title A Bridge to Light which is shorter and easier to read. Sadly, though, it is lacking in many respects to M&D. Scottish Rite masons are still encouraged to read M&D, though. I am reading it right now, as a matter of fact.


Actually, if I remember right, Rex Hutchens wrote A Brige to Light as kind of a supplement to Morals and Dogma. I think I remember reading somewhere that he is a great fan of Pike, and would never have presumed to "one-upped" M&D with A Bridge to Light.



"V.I.T.R.I.O.L. If curiosity brings you here then LEAVE! There is still time."


Very interesting acronym. What does it mean?



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
Actually, if I remember right, Rex Hutchens wrote A Brige to Light as kind of a supplement to Morals and Dogma. I think I remember reading somewhere that he is a great fan of Pike, and would never have presumed to "one-upped" M&D with A Bridge to Light.


Axeman,

That's true. The Supreme Council stopped printing Morals & Dogma years ago, but continued to issue them to new members (they still have literally thousands of copies that are "new"..and tons of used ones as well) but "A Bridge to Light" became the standard issue in 1989 (I believe).

Hutchens is a big fan of Pike. He can talk about him for HOURS and keep you fascinated. Among his other books that are truly worthy of reading are:

Pillars of Wisdom: The Writings of Albert Pike
and
The Bible in Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma (co-authored with Donald Monson)



"V.I.T.R.I.O.L. If curiosity brings you here then LEAVE! There is still time."
---------------
Very interesting acronym. What does it mean?


Why, "Visita Inferiora Terrae, Rectificando Inuenies Occultum Lapidem" of course.


Regards

[edit on 5-7-2005 by senrak]



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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i think you made a typo, there. the latin words for vitriol should read, ""The first alchemistic principle is

VITRIOL:

"Visita Interiora Terrae, Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem"


---Umberto Eco, "Foucaults Pendulum"

"Then, what was or is the genuine vitriol of the alchemists? We are led more
closely to an understanding by trying to understand the meaning of the word
'vitriol'. 'Vitriolum' is a contraction of the initial letters of the
following Latin sentence: Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando Inveniens
Occultum Lapidem Veram Medicinam. Or in one of the possible translations:
"See in the interior of the purified earth, and you will find the secret
stone, the true medicine".

Thus vitriol was a code name for the original substance of the philosopher's
stone. It should also become understandable with it, that verdigris or common
types of vitriol are not the true Vitriol of the Philosophers. This becomes
clearer still, if one takes seriously the warnings of fair alchemists, who
wrote there among others: "You must take in our work the vitriol of the
philosophers, and not the common". www.mcs.com...


so, are masons then alchemists? is the philoshopher's stone the human soul, purified by 'acid'?
it seems crystals are one of the few things that can stand the assault of acid. infact, acid is the only thing used to clean iron ore off of quartz. crystalline structures represent perfection. so, in the search for the alchemical transformation of the soul, or purification of spirit, this anocronym describes what a seeker might be in for?



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by billybob
i think you made a typo, there. the latin words for vitriol should read, ""The first alchemistic principle is
VITRIOL:
"Visita Interiora Terrae, Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem"


True. I took the words out of Albert Pike's "The Book of the Words" The word "Invenies" is rendered there "Inuenies" the "v" being replaced by the proper "u" "Inferiora" is indeed a typo on either Pike's part or the part of the type-setter.




so, are masons then alchemists?


The TRUE Mason is simply a seeker of Light (knowledge).



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by senrak
The TRUE Mason is simply a seeker of Light (knowledge).


hey, then i'm already a mason, HAHA!

would you agree that the seven metals refer to the seven chakras, and that by purifying each, you will 'awaken the snake', kundalini?

i can start to see why the vatican has a hate on for freemasonry. it seems to be the polar opposite philosophy.

in catholicism, you need only tell a priest(your payphone booth to god) all your sins, and you are forgiven. and, good to go do some more sin! yay! most versions of christianity have the same thing, ...ask forgiveness, and you get it. (i think there is actually something in this, if you rub a little jesus on it that is, .....like this, ....you can't forgive anyone else, unless you are first able to forgive yourself. therein lies the rub.)

in freemasonry, you are warned that you will undergo a trial by fire, so to speak, which will reveal your ugly inner self, so you can recognise your 'demons', and not just ignore or rationalise 'them'. kinda like old siddartha sitting around the tree and chatting with his demons.
freemasonry doesn't ignore dogma it finds 'uncomfortable'. it, instead, accepts all knowledge, and applies new knowledge within the existing framework. there are aspects of hermeticism, alchemy, cabbalism, astrology, geometry, psychology, and other sciences and lore.
so, i guess if you believe knowledge is evil, then freemasonry isn't for you.
if you are more comfortable swallowing the blue pill, which is a holy book or tome, INTERPRETED for you, by a 'holy man', that requires you swear off all other 'holy books', and 'holy men', then that is your choice.

maybe i WILL try and join the masons.
so, far, masonry looks better and better all the time.

i'm wondering if one of the brethren could peruse 'my' wild speculation about jesus' missing years, on the previous page, and add a comment or two.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Please do not quote Christ, God and The Scriptures unless you have read and understood the scriptures yourself. It is very evident that you do not have any basic knowledge of the nature of God. The message of God and or the teachings of Christ.
It just makes you sound foolish !


I think he did that when he identified himself as Buddhist/Cristian/Heavy-Metall fan/Master Mason.


Now that's one helluva combination.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by yanchek

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Please do not quote Christ, God and The Scriptures unless you have read and understood the scriptures yourself. It is very evident that you do not have any basic knowledge of the nature of God. The message of God and or the teachings of Christ.
It just makes you sound foolish !


I think he did that when he identified himself as Buddhist/Cristian/Heavy-Metall fan/Master Mason.


Now that's one helluva combination.



I hardly see how they are incompatible or foolish. If you had read my previous 2 posts pertaining to the inclusion of "Buddhist" in my opening post you would understand what I meant. I enjoy the music from my younger days(and if you heard it you'd probably say it's hard rock), but I also enjoy several others such as Blues, Blue Grass and the occasional bit of classical when I hear it.

If you're wondering why I chose those particular items to include, then fine. I included those to demonstrate that I am a younger man, with a wide range of interests and that I am also open to learning from others and willing to share. Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, but I hadn't realized that so many would be so narrow and arrogant. Lesson learned.


[edit on 5-7-2005 by AngelWitch]



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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Ok my Bad.. It says that Sir Francis Bacon personal ciper number was 33. indicating that he was a fully initiated Mason.
Sir Francis Bacon, The Knight Templars ,Masonic and Rosicrucian initiate, wrote into the shakespear plays the secret teachings of the fraternity of the Rose cross, the "Lost Word" of the Freemason Order and major clues to unlock the hidden story in the Gospels.
any truth to this?
he or she who solves its mystery may yet find therein the key to the suppose "Lost Wisdom of Antiquity"
Is there such a key to find?
i personally think there is.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
in catholicism, you need only tell a priest(your payphone booth to god) all your sins, and you are forgiven. and, good to go do some more sin!


Actually you don't have to do that at all (although Reconciliation...formerly called "Confession") is important.

However you DO have to be truly repentant...otherwise asking for forgiveness is fruitless.

As far as Freemasonry's "trial by fire" well, that's an interesting twist on the teaching. I won't say it's wrong, just not my interpretation of it.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by AngelWitch
Come on. Ask the questions. I am a Freemason from Rochester, NY USA.
I am 35 years old, love heavy metal music. I am Christian in faith, buhdist in philosophy. Before we go down the road of Freemasonry vs Christianity; I am not the typical Christian, but will happily tell you what I believe.

I will answer all questions with the following rules.

1) I will not deny, confirm, or otherwise portray any mode of recognition.
2) I will answer ALL honest questions.
3) I will ignore nonsense, this includes posts from sites such as masonrywatch.org, et al...
4) I will not debate any "religion vs Freemasony", as ALL such arguments are nonsense. You will be ignored by me.
5) I will not give my name, address, telephone number or email, etc...(This is a VERY public forum)
6) I will not break my obligation, but will inform you when the question may infringe on such.
5) I will not lie. If there is something I can't say, I'll tell you.



[edit on 1-7-2005 by AngelWitch]



is there really a map on the back of the US declaration of independence that leads to a treasure ?



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by senrak
However you DO have to be truly repentant...otherwise asking for forgiveness is fruitless.


i agree with that wholeheartedly. that's one of the reasons 'billybob' and catholicism don't mix(one of the MANY reasons).



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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is there really a map on the back of the US declaration of independence that leads to a treasure ?


Uhhhmmmm....None none to my knowledge, though I did like the movie



Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by senrak
However you DO have to be truly repentant...otherwise asking for forgiveness is fruitless.


i agree with that wholeheartedly. that's one of the reasons 'billybob' and catholicism don't mix(one of the MANY reasons).


LOL



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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I was just kiddin around. I guess the only question I have that meets your criteria is;

I was in a fraternity, can you compare the two ?



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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I was in a fraternity, can you compare the two ?


Having not been in a college frat, maybe a Brother who has can answer this.
I would guess that the similarities would be superficial, but that's just my guess.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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I have a few questions -

1. If the purpose of FM is to gain knowledge, how is that knowledge tought?

2. Does FM have beliefs or is it secular?

3. Has FM evolved it's beliefs if it has them?

4. If I wished to join FM, what should I expect?

Hope these are the kind of questions you do not mind answering.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 02:48 PM
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"I would guess......superficial"
_____________________________

Please forgive my skepticism, but could you possibly be any more vague
with your answers? I mean the title of this thread marquee of great things
to come, however, in the end it is the same individual Masons taking on the
the brunt of the questions. I might add that they are very knowledgeable
and tireless in their efforts, but I can also see where this repetitive
onslaught of questioning gets old! Why did you initiate this thread, if all you
were going to do was "beat around the bush?"......For real..............?????

[edit on 5-7-2005 by lashlarue]



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by parabolee
1. If the purpose of FM is to gain knowledge, how is that knowledge tought?

Masonry teaches through allegory and symbolism as performed through ritual.



2. Does FM have beliefs or is it secular?

3. Has FM evolved it's beliefs if it has them?

Masonry is not a religion nor a substitute for religion. It accepts men from all faiths, provided you have a belief in a supreme being.



4. If I wished to join FM, what should I expect?

At least in NY. After contacting a Mason and expressing an interest, a couple of Brothers from the lodge would arrange to sit down with you and talk. Providing you an opportunity to ask questions, the lodge to learn a little about you, and fill out a petition if you still desired to do so. Once you have filled out the petition, it would be voted upon in lodge and you would then be informed of the answer. If accepted, you would then be accepted as a member of that lodge and receive the 3 degrees.

For more information take a look at:
www.nymasons.org...

I hope this helps





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