Originally posted by dh

Wow, billybob, wow
That's a proper kind of understanding, that impresses

[edit on 3-7-2005 by dh]

yeah, it's pretty cool, eh. if i were a guitar player, that would be one of my 'licks'. it only scratches the surface, though, of how our understanding is shaped by our words, which are shaped by our thoughts, in an ongoing evolutionary cycle.

i don't know what point freemasonry diverges from esoteric secrets.
i do know that esoteric secrets would get you drawn and quartered(OUCH!) for a few centuries. i could see a need for secrecy, IF the organisation is some kind of 'cup bearer'. ie. the cup of knowledge.

do you they teach you mason guys stuff about sacred geometry? does the phi stuff i posted make any sense to you, or is it just mumbo jumbo, in your opinion?

golfie, thank you for your response. it was mostly satisfying.
except for the maise thing.
maise is native to the american continents. rosslyn chapel was built before europe 'discovered' america.
columbus is rumoured to have had a map from the templars that guided him to his conclusions, and the location. america is supposed by some to be a kind of promised land of ancient legend.
does this tie in with atlantis?
now, 'mer' is also an interesting phonic. it ties in with the legend of the mermen which spawned the merovingian bloodline.
i know that's debatable. however, it IS debatable.
do you mason guys talk about this stuff?

[edit on 3-7-2005 by billybob]

Originally posted by lashlarue
I am entitled to my opinion , whether you approve or not. Could it be that
I might know something you do not? Heaven forbid........

I know he IS indeed a mason. A person would be very foolish to give his name and lodge number to a mason for verification if he were not indeed a brother.

And just how do you decipher this? Based on the answers given by the
one in question I feel you really aren't paying attention to what has been
said in favor of an overiding priority to thwart all attacks on freemasonry,
which this is most certainly not.

One thing that has been consistent among ALL masons on this forum is our answers to questions and comments regarding masonic issues. All we ever usually do is add on to each other's comments or agree with each other. We usually know how other masons would answers the same questions and in this way can tell who is truly or not a brother. Several impostors have been discovered this way.

Not only that, but whenever a new mason pops up on here, we usually u2u one another a few times to verify. This person has given neither myself nor any other person here (except you) any reason to think he's lying, including his answers to questions.

Sorry for being rude in my previous post, but I have been accused SEVERAL times of lying about my membership, as have others here and so I know how offensive it actually is. I'm sorry, but I do not feel that you are truly in a position to be able to accurately identify a mason or an impostor. True, it is hard to tell over a message forum, and this is why we rely on a person's answers to questions to tell his true identity.

Quote: "Please do not quote Christ, God and The Scriptures unless you have read and understood the Scriptures yourself. It is very evident that you do not have any basic knowledge of the Nature of God, the Message of God and or the Teachings of Christ. It just makes you sound Foolish!"

How Ironic! You should Practice what you Preach - Hypocrite!

hi there AngelWitch,

perhaps it's because in your thread start, you limited the discussion
and said that 'recognition' would not be included,

well, that says either of 2 things....either you aren't knowledgeable
of the full scope & secrets of 'recognition' OR because the information
itself would put the freemasonry organization into a different light...
...............(please amplify, if my 2 conclusions are in error)..................

AngelWitch, your positive nature & stand, re freemasonry
may sound all well and good, at first glance.
But, isn't that the normal, proven formula??
-> {the 'salesman' always presents the most attractive face on the product}
...be it a vacation theme park or a boy scout troop or a pseudo-religious organization,
so as to intice one to buy, try, or enter?!

then by extension, following an Educating The Masses model;

Some individuals may spend a useful lifetime and not progress beyond entry level.
Most will ascend to Elementary, neophyte, grade levels.
Some will attain the higher school of sophomeres & seniors
Few will achieve and excell at the advanced, college levels.
Select Ones will go on to Post Graduate levels

-----------

??Truth or Fable??

concerning the verbotten topic of 'recognition'.....

The seeming innocent and benign 'imperfection' called a mole or blemish
is actually a 'branding mark', artifically put into the DNA code of humans.

In the far distant past, these 'branding marks' were better known, which allowed the knowledgeable & 'Illuminated' ones to recognize from which spiritual lineage or group or caste a humans' biological body originated from.... somewhat like heredity markers or thoroughbred bloodlines are
treated today->as there is an underlying potentiality of speed or endurance
or longevity or whatever between the different lineages/groups/castes.

If you only do a cursory look-see, perhaps you could use your
connect-the-dots intellect to scan the faces of famous personnages
or photographs of leadership.
Note the location of facial moles, blemishes
-are they on left? on the right? on the cheek? on the chin? on the forehead?
-will you find general characteristics among those with certain 'brands'?
-are some 'brands' hidden on the back or torso as opposed to facial?
-Will? someone, start writing books about this factoid, revealed here on this thread by 'victoras st udio', in the near future? i did not copyright the idea/meme!....(watch as events become history)-in this "Find Waldo" world.
-
.......................

I just wonder if you were/are privy to this knowledge
and playing the sly routine ?
In any event, the Geni's out of the bottle, as-it-were


~~~~~~~~~

PS: reply on billybobs' thought of freemasons being somewhat the
antagonist or adversary to the Vatican....i'm with that view, especially since
the yeast-like rising of the Jesuits being in overt charge.
??perhaps the neocon-Jesuit-zionist 'axis of ----?---- ' is really, Real?!!

hi there AngelWitch,

perhaps it's because in your thread start, you limited the discussion
and said that 'recognition' would not be included,

well, that says either of 2 things....either you aren't knowledgeable
of the full scope & secrets of 'recognition' OR because the information
itself would put the freemasonry organization into a different light...

Actually it say neither. It says that it would be against my obligation to discuss those on a public forum.

AngelWitch, your positive nature & stand, re freemasonry
may sound all well and good, at first glance.
But, isn't that the normal, proven formula??
-> {the 'salesman' always presents the most attractive face on the product}
...be it a vacation theme park or a boy scout troop or a pseudo-religious organization,
so as to intice one to buy, try, or enter?!

Maybe, but there's a difference. I don't care if you buy, I only offer to educate. If you choose to believe otherwise, that is your right.

then by extension, following an Educating The Masses model;

Some individuals may spend a useful lifetime and not progress beyond entry level.
Most will ascend to Elementary, neophyte, grade levels.
Some will attain the higher school of sophomeres & seniors
Few will achieve and excell at the advanced, college levels.
Select Ones will go on to Post Graduate levels

-----------

I can only assume that you are referring to the degrees of the Scottish Rite or York Rite. I either case the above makes little sense. Appendant degrees are not higher degrees than that of Master Mason.

??Truth or Fable??

concerning the verbotten topic of 'recognition'.....

The seeming innocent and benign 'imperfection' called a mole or blemish
is actually a 'branding mark', artifically put into the DNA code of humans.

Where on earth did you dig up that piece of garbage?!?!? I'm gonna have to say that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. I know that I said I would neither confirm or deny any topics of modes of recognition, but I think here I can make an exception. ...FALSE.

truthisoutthere
Please do not quote Christ, God and The Scriptures unless you have read and understood the scriptures yourself. It is very evident that you do not have any basic knowledge of the nature of God. The message of God and or the teachings of Christ.

Nowhere have I done this. I simply question how you have interpreted them.

truthisoutthere
One thing I have noticed about the majority of Masons ( NOT ALL ) on this site is that they are very prideful and arrogant. You guys are the first ones to show eachother and the world about your titles and certifictes !

I have not done this either, I simply stated that I am a Mason.

truthisoutthere
We don't have to interprut scripture any longer ! It's not in Greek and Hebrew anymore believe it or not. Many christians read there bible everyday to learn about God and His teachings. It's that simple. Why is that so hard for you to understand ?

Simply having been translated into english is not enough. One must also be able to interpret it's meaning and understand it's lessons. Not all are equally able to do so.

Note: Editted to fix a couple spelling errors and tags.

[edit on 4-7-2005 by AngelWitch]

[edit on 4-7-2005 by AngelWitch]

I know AngelWitch already answered your questions, but I would like to add on to some things:

Originally posted by St Udio
perhaps it's because in your thread start, you limited the discussion
and said that 'recognition' would not be included, well, that says either of 2 things....either you aren't knowledgeable of the full scope & secrets of 'recognition' OR because the information itself would put the freemasonry organization into a different light...

Actually, like AW said, ALL masons take an obligation to never reveal our modes of recognition. This is probably the only outwardly visible thing in Freemasonry that is considered a secret to ALL masons, and no honorable mason would reveal these modes of recognition unless he had a strong desire to lose his membership and his honor.

-> {the 'salesman' always presents the most attractive face on the product}
so as to intice one to buy, try, or enter?!

I don't think AW is trying to intice anyone to join Freemasonry. Quite honestly, the majority of people on this forum wouldn't be qualified to join. He, like the rest of us, just seeks to educate and correct all the terrible misconceptions that people have about Freemasonry. Like the rest of us, he has provided nothing less than the truth and I will vouch for this.

Some individuals may spend a useful lifetime and not progress beyond entry level.
Some will attain the higher school of sophomeres & seniors

Again, higher degrees do not mean higher rank, position or level within the fraternity. They just mean that the mason has been exposed to more advanced topics of masonic education. The highest and most important degree is the third degree. Any degrees after that are simply APPENDANT degrees, and mostly elaborate on the lessons taught in the first 3 degrees.

??Truth or Fable??
The seeming innocent and benign 'imperfection' called a mole or blemish
is actually a 'branding mark', artifically put into the DNA code of humans.

Wow , where did you get that GEM?!? You know how insane, paranoid and nutty that sounds, right? If I were you, I would let this die right here and now and never mention it again, lest the nice men in white coats come to take you away before you hurt yourself or another.

Seriously though, that's silly dude. You might want to re-examine your sources of information.

Has anyone heard that Sir Francis Bacon was a 33 degree mason? and he was The Editor Of The 1611" KING JAMES BIBLE " so if these main stream christians out there are not big fans of the Masons, then what are they doing reading the king James in the first place. ???

sebatwerk, how can you tell most people are not qualified to become freemasons just by reading a few idle thoughts?

i still feel like you guys are ignoring me. i'm not getting mad, though, because i think you may be confusing me with a 'troll' who 'hijacks' threads.

i will make it easier by asking direct questions.

does freemasonry have an official relationship with the vatican?

does freemasonry teach anything about sacred geometry? if so, what?

does freemasonry teach anything about entymology?

would i 'qualify', and why or why not?

freemasonry seems compartmentalised, like an intelligence agency. how do the majority of freemasons know that the superduperkingwisemaster masons aren't doing 'bad stuff'? i mean, it's not like i, a teacher, could say that the school principal isn't heisting volleyballs, or skimming off the lunch budget. i just wouldn't know, and would be unable to defend him/her if they were accused. how is it, that freemasons are so dead sure there is no skullduggery within the organisation?

(with nixon mask a-waggling) I AM NOT A TROLL!

Originally posted by billybob

i still feel like you guys are ignoring me. i'm not getting mad, though, because i think you may be confusing me with a 'troll' who 'hijacks' threads.


freemasonry seems compartmentalised, like an intelligence agency. how do the majority of freemasons know that the superduperkingwisemaster masons aren't doing 'bad stuff'? ?

(with nixon mask a-waggling) I AM NOT A TROLL!

In these guys terms you are, billybob
Anything that challenges makes you a troll
Reminds me of the chemtrail threads
These, in the end are people with their heads buried in their own anuses
They don't understand how their collective energy is misappropriated and how they are controlled. What their contribution to the world genocide, trauma and control involves
They don't understand their involvement in the killing fields at home and abroad
They have no idea - they've been 'enlightened' controlled compartmentalised and shut off

[edit on 4-7-2005 by dh]

Originally posted by Chasrac64
Has anyone heard that Sir Francis Bacon was a 33 degree mason?

I'd be willing to bet that the founders of the Scottish Rite (the Masonic body that controls the 4th - 33rd Degrees) would have been very surprised to hear that, since they wrote (read: "made up") the 33rd Degree in about 1801. Bacon having died in 1626 and all . . .

and he was The Editor Of The 1611" KING JAMES BIBLE " so if these main stream christians out there are not big fans of the Masons, then what are they doing reading the king James in the first place. ???

Chasrac, that's a good question and it's my personal conviction that many of the so-called "mainstream" Christians (read: fundamentalist, fanatic, Bible-thumpers) have never actually READ the Bible in the first place. King James Version or any other. They tend to read (or hear) bits and pieces then misconstrue them to fit their own twisted needs. (Anti-Masons do the same thing with Pike's Morals & Dogma and another member of this forum is doing the same thing with another Scottish Rite Book, except he's actually MAKING UP some things that the book doesn't even say.

[shrug]

Regards,

Originally posted by billybob
sebatwerk, how can you tell most people are not qualified to become freemasons just by reading a few idle thoughts?

Just call it a hunch.

does freemasonry have an official relationship with the vatican?

No, the Vatican forbids Catholics from becoming masons. They will not allow masons to take Holy Communion.

does freemasonry teach anything about sacred geometry? if so, what?

Not really, only when used as allegory and symbolism. Besides placing an obvious importance on the study of Geometry and the other 6 liberal arts, Freemasonry only uses specific geometric principles as symbolism.

does freemasonry teach anything about entymology?

The study of insects? No, I can't say that it does...

would i 'qualify', and why or why not?

I don't know, are you an atheist? How old are you? Are you of good moral character? Any felonies? Warrants? Why would you want to be a mason?

how do the majority of freemasons know that the superduperkingwisemaster masons aren't doing 'bad stuff'?

Because there are NO "superduperkingwisemaster masons". The only masons in any place of authority are Grand Lodge masons, elected by ALL masons for 1 year terms. They are 100% limited by the votes of all Master Masons. The actions of Grand Lodges are 100% transparent to all masons in the jurisdiction.

Masons aren't idiots. Just like the men who set up this great country, the men who set up Grand Lodges knew what it would take to create a truly democratic and equal organization. Do you doubt that America was founded on masonic principles?

THAT'S how we know.


[edit on 4-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

Senrak.... Sir Francis Bacon1561-1626
was a man of many talents,a Lawyer,Linquist and composer. He mastered every subject he undertook. Mathematics, Geometry, music, painting, astronomy,classical drama. He was a man of many aims and purposes. the father of modern science,remoldeler of modern Law,patron of modern democracy, and POSSIBLY THE REVIVER OF FREEMASONARY. His life and works are extensively documented... at age 16 he was sent to paris direct from the queens hand and their studied Egyptian, Arabian, Indian and Greek Philosophy with particular attention given to the Ancient Mysteries and their ritual rites. He Personally recorded that while in paris , he created a secret cipher system that could be inserted into a document without arousing suspicion. while living in europe, Francis Bacon was initiated into the Mysterious Order of the Knight Templars.
It will eventually be proved that the whole structure of the Authorised Bible was Sir Francis Bacons. He was an Ardent student not only of the Bible but also of early Manuscripts. St.Augustine St. Jerome, and writers of Theological works were studied by him with industry.

sorry, that was a typo, sebatwerk. thank you for the replies.
it should have read, 'etymology'. the study of the evolution of words?
i laughed my arse off at myself, because i thought i might have said 'the study of bugs', and not, 'words'.
anyway, is etymology part of the freemasonic tradition?

is 'morals and dogma' by albert pike required reading for masons? is there ANY required reading?

the vatican thing is interesting.
as a follower of conspiracy theory(working on becoming a leader in conspiracy theory), i have read all manner of demonisation against the masonic organisation.
however, i can't help but notice that the things which attract one to become a mason are, according to the propoganda of masonry, really good things. like community, charity, honesty, good works and whatnot. yet, anyone i've talked to on the street, says it's to get into a really good business network.
i am being as honest as possible. i haven't judged anybody, and i don't intend to. i'm am genuinely curious, and genuinely thank the masons here for taking the time to answer.

and for the record, i believe in a creator. as einstien said, there is too much order in the universe for there not to be a god( i taught him some other stuff, too). it's actually why i asked about sacred geometry.
the squaring of the circle, for example, has been described by drunvalo melchezidek as symbolizing levels of consciousness.
the reason i would want to become a mason, presuming i did want to join, would be to learn what masonry is really all about. kind of a catch 22, there.

(At BillyBob)

To quote a sign in French from a Mason Reflection Chamber:

'Examine oneself. If curiousity brings you here then leave, there is still time.'

If you're just trying to join the Masons to see if anything weird is going on I have to say that is pretty sad.

I would also like to know if the Masonic Bible is the same as the King James? and The Masonic "G" symbol, does this refer to "God" or" Gnostic"
or does it stand for Geometry?

Originally posted by Majestic12
(At BillyBob)

To quote a sign in French from a Mason Reflection Chamber:

'Examine oneself. If curiousity brings you here then leave, there is still time.'

If you're just trying to join the Masons to see if anything weird is going on I have to say that is pretty sad.

i didn't say i wanted to join. i was honestly rhetorically answering a question posed rhetorically, by sebatwerk.
no need for hostility, there, brother.
if there were NOT something weird going on in masonry, it would be the only such organisation in the world.
i am not judging some of the content of initiation rituals, like the hoodwinking. i have not attacked freeasonry. so, please be civil, and don't presume to know my motives, postition in life, spiritual development, moral character, how much i have already read or heard about freemasonry, or anything else.

i have asked not to be attacked because i am not trolling. let's keep the coolant flowing, here. i might be on 'your side'.
curiousity brings me everywhere. knowing myself was the first thing on my official 'to do' list.
don't presume that non masons cannot have learned many of the same things that masonry teaches, like TOLERANCE, PATIENCE, AND lower case attitude.

Originally posted by Chasrac64
I would also like to know if the Masonic Bible is the same as the King James? and The Masonic "G" symbol, does this refer to "God" or" Gnostic"
or does it stand for Geometry?

The G stand for Geomatria or, Geometry :-D


(At BillyBob)

Of course, you have my apologies.

[edit on 5-7-2005 by Majestic12]

Originally posted by Majestic12


(At BillyBob)

Of course, you have my apologies.

no biggie.
headlines read, "MASONS UNDER FIRE".
it's probably easy to get touchy about the whole subject.
peace, mason dudes.

francis bacon seems to have written code into the king james bible.

has anyone read 'healing codes of the biological apocalypse', by dr. horowitz? because, there is some amazing bible code stuff in it.
the book of numbers has these very similiar, repetative, mostly nonsense, verses, ...that describe a series of frequencies, when decoded using the method detailed in the book. a musical scale, that, horowitz surmises, is the tones of creation and destruction. a few licks from the trumpeteers of jericho.

here's my thinking, which just came to me this instant.
the historical figure jesus has many years missing from his history, according to the bible.
yet, some claim that he was schooled in the egyptian mysteries, and that he travelled to the east, and learned the different mysticisms of the east. some claim that mary magdalene was from a long line of royal blood, and that her family was very well to do and well off.
there are many claims.
my favourite is that he taught sacred geometry to his disciples, in private.
when i think of jesus, the first lesson that pops to mind is this, ..."you too can walk on the water, if you would only realise it."
of course, that's a verbatim quote, but the bible has a little game of 'telephone wire' built into it, so it reads a little different in there.

once again, i don't know how much this has to do with masonry, but i have read a lot of conspiracy stuff, and it all seems tied in. masonry is just so secret to us outsiders. it seems that many are quick to target masons because of this secrecy, be it real or imagined, or because certain memes are propogated by certain media streams.
i, i am proud to say, am not one of them. i have not in any of my studies, found anything that is 'bad' about freemasons. there is a lot of conjecture about SOME freemasons, but as a lot, i think they are not the borg. i am positive that they are 'moral', whatever that exactly means, it means generally the same thing to most of us.

i'm voting with the masons for today. i invite anyone to give persuasive evidence that shows freemasonry as a WHOLE is 'evil'.

if all(most) of the founding fathers were freemasons, and fought for and brought independence from england's meglomania, and most importantly, created a piece of paper that defines GOOD laws and rules, that are independent of, and supercede, the elected 'leader' of the country. rules that everyone agrees on.

that's GOOD!

it's funny, because, the catholic church is the opposite. they oppress and erase every truth at every turn. they've murdered tens of MILLIONS to preserve 'the truth'. they have murdered all these innocent people, just to claim that they are the gateway to god. only through THEM, can you find redemption.
and yet, that is a diametrically opposed 'truth' to what is written in the bible that they claim to uphold.

i see none such evil lying from freemasonry.
the trap of the devil is a complex one.
be wary, all.





[edit on 5-7-2005 by billybob]