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A Freemason spilling it all!!!(except modes of recognition)

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posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by lashlarue
"I would guess......superficial"
_____________________________

Please forgive my skepticism, but could you possibly be any more vague
with your answers? I mean the title of this thread marquee of great things
to come, however, in the end it is the same individual Masons taking on the
the brunt of the questions. I might add that they are very knowledgeable
and tireless in their efforts, but I can also see where this repetitive
onslaught of questioning gets old! Why did you initiate this thread, if all you
were going to do was "beat around the bush?"......For real..............?????

[edit on 5-7-2005 by lashlarue]


Jesus, man, he said he didn't know. Would you rather him make up an answer or say that he would guess that the similarities are superficial?

In answer to the question though, very many of the american college fraternities borrowed heavily from Masonic ritual, as far as I understand it. Having neither been in a college frat nor initiated into Masonry yet, I can't compare the two from personal experience. Hope that wasn't too vague, Lash.


An interesting aside, check out the symbol on the main page of this website (you have to click on the "enter" tab). It has the same phrase (V.I.T.R.I.O.L.) around the perimeter of the symbol.

And just for the record, I am a heavy metal fan too, doesn't mean I can't be a Mason.


AngelWitch: you should check these guys out. Rockin'. \m/

[edit on 7/5/05 by The Axeman]




posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Hmm, I am interested.

So a requirment of beleif in a "supreme being" would be secular then. I presume this means a spiritual faith of some kind as what a supreme being is would be very subjective.

I consider myself a secular humanist with great interest in Buddhist and Taoist teachings, but I learn from all teachings along with science. I presume that would make me elligible.

Please tell me what FM would offer me. I am not sold on teachings through ritual, that sounds a little silly to me. But I am open minded.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by lashlarue
"I would guess......superficial"
_____________________________

Please forgive my skepticism, but could you possibly be any more vague with your answers?
I mean the title of this thread marquee of great things
to come, however, in the end it is the same individual Masons taking on the
the brunt of the questions. I might add that they are very knowledgeable
and tireless in their efforts, but I can also see where this repetitive
onslaught of questioning gets old!


I haven't been in a college frat, so I don't know what they do aside from throwing some great parties.
The other Brothers here are VERY knowledgeable, and I am greatful for having the benefit of thier wisdom.



Why did you initiate this thread, if all you
were going to do was "beat around the bush?"......For real..............?????


I don't see where I have beaten around the bush, the questions I have answered I have answered clearly.
I began this thread to educate, as well as learn.
I don't presume to be the voice of Masonry, or pretend to know it all.
I can only answer from my own experience and knowledge, as for the rest i get to learn from those who do know.
I have been to the point and honest in each of my posts, I have attempted to verify my identity to those whom I have entrusted with it.

If you think I am being evasive, then I appologize. It is certainly unintentional. There are some things I don't know, some things which I feel would violate
my obligation, and others which I can answer and be confident in doing so. If you would like clarification on my answers please let me know which ones



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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AngelWitch: you should check these guys out. Rockin'. \m/


I'll check'em out



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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Quote: "i can start to see why the vatican has a hate on for freemasonry. it seems to be the polar opposite philosophy.

in catholicism, you need only tell a priest (your payphone booth to god) all your sins, and you are forgiven. and, good to go do some more sin! yay! most versions of christianity have the same thing, ...ask forgiveness, and you get it. (i think there is actually something in this, if you rub a little jesus on it....).

in freemasonry, you are warned that you will undergo a trial by fire, so to speak, which will reveal your ugly inner self, so you can recognise your 'demons', and not just ignore or rationalise 'them'. kinda like old siddartha sitting around the tree and chatting with his demons.

freemasonry doesn't ignore dogma it finds 'uncomfortable'. it, instead, accepts all knowledge, and applies new knowledge within the existing framework. there are aspects of hermeticism, alchemy, cabbalism, astrology, geometry, psychology, and other sciences and lore.
so, i guess if you believe knowledge is evil, then freemasonry isn't for you.
if you are more comfortable swallowing the blue pill, which is a holy book or tome, INTERPRETED for you, by a 'holy man', that requires you swear off all other 'holy books', and 'holy men', then that is your choice."




Right on BillyBob - I think that you just hit the Nail square on it's Head! Bingo!

I too got tired of being a Catholic - of Sticking my Bible under the bed, never reading it - Going to Church every Sunday to Kiss a Priests Butt, make a little sign of the Cross, say a "Hail Mary", Stick a Wafer in my Mouth & perform other meaningless Rituals (that no-one seems to know why they are being done or what they mean) - all to get your "Sins" Forgiven - so that you can go out & do more Sinning? Something inside of me - informed me that this is neither what Jesus Intended nor Taught!

Then when I started Studying & Practicing Buddhism my family gave me the strangest looks! I was even called a "Satanist Witch" to my face once - I feel sorry for these people - their massive Ignorance must cause a lot of Pain in their lives!

I expected the same type of Reaction when it came to Masonry - if you look at some of the Posts on ATS concerning Masonry (or other, more Occult subjects like Hermeticism, Gnosticism & Qabalah) you will see that Negative Mentality there as well!


[edit on 5-7-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 5-7-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 5-7-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by parabolee
So a requirment of beleif in a "supreme being" would be secular then. I presume this means a spiritual faith of some kind as what a supreme being is would be very subjective.

I consider myself a secular humanist with great interest in Buddhist and Taoist teachings, but I learn from all teachings along with science. I presume that would make me elligible.


Here is what the Grand Lodge of New York states on the matter:
You must believe in a Supreme Being and the immortality of the soul.
This belief is not proscribed — rather, we encourage you to be steadfast in the faith of your choice.


I have seen a couple of recent discussions on other boards on this very topic. I do not believe Grand Lodge of NY has defined this anymore than the above statement, and would be surprised if they did, so my opinion is that it does remain somewhat subjective. Most that I know are from the traditional faiths, but in my opinion if you can HONESTLY attest to a belief in a supreme being and a belief in the immortality of the soul then that would be enough for me.



Please tell me what FM would offer me. I am not sold on teachings through ritual, that sounds a little silly to me. But I am open minded.


Like most other things in life you get out what you put in. For my part, I have gotten to meet many people I may not have met otherwise,
been an active participant in an organization dating back to at least 1717, provided another outlet for me to be involved in the community,
helped me to examine myself and my goals in life a little closer, and most importantly I just enjoy being a part of it.

Some people really enjoy ritual, others not as much. I happen to enjoy learning about it, performing it and discussing it with some of my lodge Brothers.
Being a relatively new Mason, I find that there are several angles from which to approach it and understand it.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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please tell me what you do for the community and is this any diffrent then the lions or shrinners as A friend off my father was a mason just woundering as i have read that a lot of clubs have had declining inrollment

[edit on 5-7-2005 by northstar]



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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A widely accepted belief of Masons is that Freemasonry stemmed out of King David and Solomon's Temple, King Nemrod and The Tower Babel, and the ancient Jewish prophets and the Jewish Temple.

Care to comment?

-wD


dh

posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
maybe i WILL try and join the masons.
so, far, masonry looks better and better all the time.

i'm wondering if one of the brethren could peruse 'my' wild speculation about jesus' missing years, on the previous page, and add a comment or two.

I hope you know I speak as a friend
I wouldn't do it
Sure the masons control a lot of key secrets of how the world is, but the motive is always control
The hidden masters remain in control, and hidden, and the symbolic entity Jote or Yoda is not to be trusted. The american-accented pronunciation of the former imitates the pronunciation of the latter

Reminds me of the Shekinah/Shock and Awe equivalence that took place in Babylon on the Spring Equinox - same accented equivalence

The vibrational frequencies of the rites allow takeover without your own protection
You don't need a compartmentalised hierarchy pretending to be an egalitarian fraternity to get you to the places you want to be
They'll take you over and you will no long be your own person
Collectivism is ok if you can trust your comrades and the collective mentality isn't beehive - thats for the bees
You've got very good knowledge and understanding. A bit like me, you need to let your spirit follow on there
Don't let these guide your path
What are they specifically withholding
Recognition codes - this means specifically that you can never deal with others on a deep basis unless they've been subject to the same third degree and all the rest as you
It truly is mind and associate control

[edit on 5-7-2005 by dh]

[edit on 5-7-2005 by dh]



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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Well there goes another thread. :shk:


dh

posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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Sorry - an accidental repeat

[edit on 5-7-2005 by dh]



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by northstar
please tell me what you do for the community and is this any diffrent then the lions or shrinners as A friend off my father was a mason just woundering as i have read that a lot of clubs have had declining inrollment

[edit on 5-7-2005 by northstar]


Well in this area this is much overlap. We contribute millions to non-Masonic charities, here we run a child id program free of charge to the parents and they walk away with a video tape of thier child to help identify them in the event that the child disappears, we also run a few other such programs. Membership is declining in all civic groups that I know of, and unfortunately Masonry as well.

It is a prerequisit to be a Master Mason to be a Shriner.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL
A widely accepted belief of Masons is that Freemasonry stemmed out of King David and Solomon's Temple, King Nemrod and The Tower Babel, and the ancient Jewish prophets and the Jewish Temple.

Care to comment?

-wD


While Masonic symbolism does contain influences from the above, I would not agree.

Here is a similar discussion on another thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


dh

posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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Sorry my edits are appearing as posts
Please get rid of, tho you said this thread was finished for whatever reason

[edit on 5-7-2005 by dh]



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL
A widely accepted belief of Masons is that Freemasonry stemmed out of King David and Solomon's Temple, King Nemrod and The Tower Babel, and the ancient Jewish prophets and the Jewish Temple.

Care to comment?

-wD


No comment, but I do have a question.

By WHOM is this "widely accepted"

Thinking Masons do not accept it.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
in catholicism, you need only tell a priest(your payphone booth to god) all your sins, and you are forgiven. and, good to go do some more sin! yay!


Actually you are supposed to actually be SORRY that you sinned and have every intention NOT to do it again....so it doesn't exactly work that way....regardless of your dislike for the Roman Church...or the Anglican or Episcopalian or any of the other traditional churches that practice "reconciliation" (formerly called "confession")



in freemasonry, you are warned that you will undergo a trial by fire, so to speak, which will reveal your ugly inner self, so you can recognise your 'demons', and not just ignore or rationalise 'them'. kinda like old siddartha sitting around the tree and chatting with his demons.


Hmmm... I've been an active Freemason (and taken NUMEROUS degrees) for many years and have never heard it put quite that way. Interesting twist.



I too got tired of being a Catholic - of Sticking my Bible under the bed, never reading it - Going to Church every Sunday to kiss a Priests Butt, make a little sign of the Cross, say a "Hail Mary", Stick a Wafer in my Mouth & perform other meaningless Rituals (that no-one seems to know why they are being done or what they mean) - all to get your "Sins" forgiven - so that you can go out & do more Sinning? Something inside of me - informed me that this is neither what Jesus Intended nor Taught!


Hmm. Kissing Priests butts...eating "wafers" and not understanding it. Looks like the teachers in your Parish either didn't care to actually teach you or you didn't pay attention. Otherwise you'd actually know what all that was about (all except kissing Priests butts. I'm truly sorry you had to do that...but hell, you might get some $$$ for it today)

Oh well...has nothing to do with Masonry anyway...but then again neither do most of the messages on this forum that deal w/ Masonry.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 10:09 PM
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Senrak - the first two quotes were not my posting - I was quoting "BillyBob". The last one was mine - but I meant it Figuratively NOT Literally (Yuck
)! I did figure out what the Symbolism of the Mass Consumption of the Eucharist (i.e. "Communion") Represented - on my OWN that is (no help from the Roman Catholic Church there)! The answer is in my Signature!

Quote: "Sure the Masons control a lot of key Secrets of how the world is… the motive is always control. The “Hidden Masters” remain in control."

dh - frankly, you are *DELUSIONAL*! The Masons don't control any "Hidden Secrets" - if you want to find out what they are then why don't you go to the Library & do a little Re-Search? No one is stopping you correct? Why don't you try looking at your self in the Mirror?

Why do so many people look to blame the "Invisible Boogiemen" for all of the Problems in the World instead of taking Responsibility for their own Actions?



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
so, are masons then alchemists? is the philoshopher's stone the human soul, purified by 'acid'?
it seems crystals are one of the few things that can stand the assault of acid. infact, acid is the only thing used to clean iron ore off of quartz. crystalline structures represent perfection. so, in the search for the alchemical transformation of the soul, or purification of spirit, this anocronym describes what a seeker might be in for?



In the context with which this word VITRIOL was orignally spoken of on this thread, my personal opinion is that it just means to look within. If you approach Masonry with idle curiosity, you most likely wont see it through, or 'get it' for that matter. The quote says that 'there is still time' or some such thing. Time for what? Well, to look within. Visit the interior of the earth (look inside) and by rectification (removing from one's self all that is not from oneself, thou wilt find the hidden stone (your true self).

You asked if Masons were alchemists. Well, what is alchemy? Turning lead into gold? No, there are no laboratories in any masonic hall I've been to. Perhaps lead and gold are symbols of something that is within us and/or potentially within. I would say that in this case, any seeker of light would be a sort of alchemist.

In LVX...



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by dh
Sure the masons control a lot of key secrets of how the world is, but the motive is always control


This is completely absurd. Tell me ONE THING that Freemasons control! "Key Secrets of the World"??? Thanks, but you're giving us a bit too much credit. All of our teachings can be found within the Bible.



You don't need a compartmentalised hierarchy pretending to be an egalitarian fraternity to get you to the places you want to be
They'll take you over and you will no long be your own person


Ah yes, of course. Join the masons, cease to be yourself. I suggest you cut the crap once and for all, stop being such a snippity troll. Freemasonry's focus is on the self. Freemasonry is a knowledge of one's self. Freemasonry is all about individuality and knowledge of how that individuality fits into the bigger picture.

Please know what you're talking about before you post.



You've got very good knowledge and understanding. A bit like me, you need to let your spirit follow on there
Don't let these guide your path


Actually, billybob has something you don't: intelligence to see beyond the typical conspiracy theory B.S. that you are so hung up on and for which there is NO evidence nor reason nor support. billybob has seen past that and realize that Freemasonry is actually a GREAT thing which he would like to be a part of. You're stuck with your thumb up your butt spewing out nonsense post after post. Don't compare youself to him, you hardly rate.



What are they specifically withholding
Recognition codes - this means specifically that you can never deal with others on a deep basis unless they've been subject to the same third degree and all the rest as you


What are you talking about now?!?! Good God, modes of recognition are not so that masons only associate with other masons on a deep basis. That's such a steamy pile of crap! Seriously dude, how do you actually take yourself seriously after having said something as silly as that!?!? :bnghd:

Actually, modes of recognition are so that you may recognize real brethren from impostors (of which there are a lot of). Many people try to pass themselves off as masons in order to receive supposed benefits, and these are the kinds of people we want to avoid. We want to recognize our true brethren.

So again, you spout off about something of which you have NO idea. I'm starting to see a trollish pattern here



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by senrak
The TRUE Mason is simply a seeker of Light (knowledge).


hey, then i'm already a mason, HAHA!


You're not far off, actually. Many great men from history who have embodied masonic principles have been referred to as Freemasons, even though they obviously were never initiated. King Solomon was referred to as a Freemason, so was Pythagoras called a brother. Anybody who has been a seeker of knowledge, honor and morality already contains the qualities that Freemasons share, he only has to be initiated.

In Freemasonry's 1st degree, we are told that we are first prepared to be made a mason in our hearts. That we had a desire for light, and our desired sent us on a quest which voluntarily took us to and ended at the door of the lodge is sign that we were already prepared to learn the lessons of Freemasonry.



i can start to see why the vatican has a hate on for freemasonry. it seems to be the polar opposite philosophy.


Yes and no. The church does not realize what a good job we do of helping men strengthen their bonds with their church and God. If they knew, they would have a completely different stance.

But you are right, Freemasonry's quest for knowledge and realization that all religions and cultures had some bit of truth to them is contrary to the church's hypocritical teachings.



freemasonry doesn't ignore dogma it finds 'uncomfortable'. it, instead, accepts all knowledge, and applies new knowledge within the existing framework. there are aspects of hermeticism, alchemy, cabbalism, astrology, geometry, psychology, and other sciences and lore.


I think you just hit the nail on the head. Beautifully said, I think that you are a perfect example of how someone can, through a bit of research, learn what Freemasonry is really about.

Keep in mind, thought, that not all masons agree with this philosophy. Masons are presented with the knowledge. How they interpret it or what they do with it is completely up to them. A mason is perfectly free to completely reject all ideas presented to him, that is for him to decide. But, like you said, Freemasonry will not ignore it simply because it might make people uncomfortable.



so, i guess if you believe knowledge is evil, then freemasonry isn't for you.
if you are more comfortable swallowing the blue pill, which is a holy book or tome, INTERPRETED for you, by a 'holy man', that requires you swear off all other 'holy books', and 'holy men', then that is your choice.


Exactly. Also, I'm sure many masons have joined Freemasonry and never concerned themselves with the esoteric knowledge the fraternity offers to them. Some one want the brotherhood. That's fine, but that is not TRUE Freemasonry. This is the "fraternity within a fraternity" that Pike was talking about in the famous quote that conspiracy theorists LOVE to take out of context.



maybe i WILL try and join the masons.
so, far, masonry looks better and better all the time.


Based on what you have written and your revelations about the Craft, I think you would make a great mason and I would be glad to call you "brother". Please u2u myself or senrak or any other mason here if you have any questions that you do not want to ask in public.




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