Allah = Hubal = Baal?

Uhhm.. I'm ok with you not believing the divine source of some of Muhammad's knowledge, but here you've got the history wrong. Please don't take this as the rantings of a crazed fundementalist, I'm just trying to get the history straightened out. It doesn't make the slightest difference to my religion how you believe Muhammad learnt so much Biblical history, it's just a matter of whats true and false.

Originally posted by Leveller
That's not true.
The whole reason Mohammed went to Medina was because he was being persecuted in Mecca and because he knew that the Jews in Medina were
tolerant.

Nope. (I'm not trying to be pretentious here, but) You should read up on Muhammad's history. During Muhammad's time, Yathrib consisted of 2 main tribes, the Awz and Khazraj. They were both pagan arab tribes. The jews in and around Yathrib were mainly from the Bani Nazir tribes. The Awz and Khazraj were continuously fighting. It was the Khazraj tribe that contacted Muhammad in Makkah. When they heard of Muhammad's "new religion" and his honesty and just manner, they went to Makkah and secretly met up with him, learned about Islam and converted. Next year they came back with an even larger congregation (including the Awz), who had converted, and invited Muhammad to Yathrib to help unite their tribes with Islam. Because existance in Makkah was becoming impossible (due to the death of his uncle-a powerful man in the Quraish tribe- whose protection had gone), Muhammad accepted.
The Jews had no say in any of this. They just lived in Yathrib. They were respected because their 1 God religion seemed superior to the Arab's own pagan beliefs, but they were also hated. The Pagan Arabs had heard the Jewish people talk about a Prophet (the Messiah), who would come and destroy all of the pagans, and they believed Muhammad to be this person. Hence Muhammad was called in with Islam, to HELP the Arabs, and not to destroy them.
***************************
Sorry for that long history, just felt the need to explain. Check up all that I said. You will find it to be all factual. Google around and you'll see.

Originally posted by Leveller
It's a denial of reality to say that Mohammed created his religion without the help of the Jews. He took holidays, prophets, laws, so much that was in the Jewish belief system already. The religions have evolved from each other. Of course, followers of religion don't want to admit this. They want to believe that their religion is the only true one and that it was handed down by their god alone. Unfortunately for them, history and a clear head teaches us otherwise.

Can we say instead that since it is the same God, the holidays, prophets, laws would all be the same anyway? I'm not saying Islam is the only true religion. The only true religion (to muslims) is submission to the One God, and Islam falls under this.

[edit on 11-5-2005 by babloyi]

You were showing allah = baal, the sungod.
I've been of the line of thought that had allah linked with allah, the moongod.
The three, sun, moon, and venus are the unholy trinity that has hounded Israel through the ages.
The meccans had a god for every day of the year, but the moongod was the highest.

Enter Muhammed

He saw how well christianity was spreading and how well unified Israel was compared to the rest and mixed the original allah with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, ..and the result was islam. The one god worshiped by all in mecca was allah the moongod so he was the unifying choice

To this day, the remaining clues are everywhere.
The crescent moon on the flags
the idea to face mecca 5 times a day in prayer (moongod traditon)
Ramadan...the pilgramage to mecca during the month with TWO full moons

The origins of the moongod is Babylon. When the jews came in contact with it , it was called "sin" in their tongue. Worshiping the moongod sin became synonymous with any kind of sin. (ie..holding anything else up higher then God or His word is sin)

Originally posted by jake1997
You were showing allah = baal, the sungod.
I've been of the line of thought that had allah linked with allah, the moongod.
The three, sun, moon, and venus are the unholy trinity that has hounded Israel through the ages.
The meccans had a god for every day of the year, but the moongod was the highest.

[Sigh]......Hubal WAS the moon god. Not Allah. And the number of gods the pre-islamic arabs had nothing to do with with the number of days in the year. Besides, the number of days in the year for them was different. They used a lunar calender. So it doesn't apply. It seems I am repeating myself alot here. YES, there was a moon god in the Pre-Islamic Arab pantheon, called Hubal/Sin and 100s of other names (not sure about a sun god). NO, it had nothing to do with ALLAH, who was worshipped as a different God altogether, the CHIEF GOD of the said pantheon.

Originally posted by jake1997
Enter Muhammed
He saw how well christianity was spreading and how well unified Israel was compared to the rest and mixed the original allah with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, ..and the result was islam. The one god worshiped by all in mecca was allah the moongod so he was the unifying choice

Wrong again. In Muhammad's time there was VERY little Christian presence in Arabia. A hermit here, a monk there. So, Muhammad could not have seen "how well christianity was spreading", because it was doing no such thing as far as Arabia was concerned.

To this day, the remaining clues are everywhere.
The crescent moon on the flags
the idea to face mecca 5 times a day in prayer (moongod traditon)
Ramadan...the pilgramage to mecca during the month with TWO full moons

Double wrong again.
The crescent moon on whose flag? I wasn't aware that Islam had a flag. Perhaps you are referring to the Arabian flag (even though Arabia's current rulers are not well known for following Islam properly)? Whoops...no, even the Arabian flag has no crescent. The crescent moon through some quirk of fate became a logo. Some weak minded people probably wanted something "physical" to refer to their religion. It was never a logo in the prophet's time. I believe he had a plain white (or perhaps green?) cloth for a flag.
I'd like to see proof that "the idea to face mecca 5 times a day in prayer" is a moongod tradition. No such proof anywhere. The Muslims originally prayed towards Juresalem. Muhammad got a revealation from God telling him to pray towards Makkah. Muslims originally prayed 3 times a day (as was arab tradition). God then set the number of prayers to 5 times a day.
And the fact that "the pilgramage to mecca during the month with TWO full moons" is wrong (even if it was right, it means nothing). The Muslims follow the Lunar calender. It starts with the new moon, and ends when the moon is gone. There IS no month with 2 full moons.
Since Christians follow the Solar Calender, and Christs birthday is celebrated near THE SHORTEST DAY (see me emphasising an irrelevant fact), that must mean that the Christians are SUN WORSHIPPERS! See how ridiculous it sounds?

[edit on 12-5-2005 by babloyi]

Originally posted by jake1997
The one god worshiped by all in mecca was allah the moongod so he was the unifying choice

Then why did mohammed destroy the old idols and say to worhsip the god of abraham? Its either the moongod or the god of abraham. Muslims say they worhsip the god of abraham, therefore, they worhsip the god of abraham.

To this day, the remaining clues are everywhere.
The crescent moon on the flags
the idea to face mecca 5 times a day in prayer (moongod traditon)
Ramadan...the pilgramage to mecca during the month with TWO full moons

Why would there be 'clues', they'd flat out say 'God is sort of like the moon god and abraham.

Worshiping the moongod sin became synonymous with any kind of sin. (ie..holding anything else up higher then God or His word is sin)

The word sin does not mean sin in hebrew or any of the semitic languages tho no? The hebrews didn't speak english, obviously.

I believe he had a plain white (or perhaps green?) cloth for a flag

Seems doubtful that mo would've been carrying any kind of flag at all.

Since Christians follow the Solar Calender, and Christs birthday is celebrated near THE SHORTEST DAY (see me emphasising an irrelevant fact), that must mean that the Christians are SUN WORSHIPPERS! See how ridiculous it sounds?

Ridiculous, yet there is truth in it. Christian traditions are in large part based on the pagan traditions that the peopel held before christianizing. SImilarly, the crescent moon is undoubtedly important to arabs, because the moon god used to be important, just like the kabba was important. Just like the christians, who changed their pagan gods to saints, and built temples on pagan sites, the muslims adopted their old stuff to the new religions.

ALthought I might be wrong and there might be antoher reason as to why the turk flag is a moon. Especailyl sincethe Turks aren't arabs.

Originally posted by babloyiActually a more accurate age for Ishmael would be 14 when Isaac was born, but even that is enough.

It would appear that he was 14 because that is what is given, and good job noting the problem with the child, but just as you pick up on that issue, so too is the entire story of Abe fraught with problems stemming largely from the fact that as within all of Genesis, at least three different versions of his story is told, likely from differing points of view.

When Terah left UR for Haran, he entered into Canaan. A careful read of the sons of Ham and Shem will disclose they shared more than just a father. Ur (Mesopotamia) was not yet founded by the Chaldean king. Neither was Bethel known as Bethel until after the death of Moses, and herein lies the problem. Chapter 12 verses 6 through 9 cannot be reconciled with chapter 13 verses 1 through 3, therefore they must be discarded. This leaves Abe leaving Haran to go into Egypt at aged 75.

Just as with your noting the problem with the story of Ishmael, the story of Abraham when studied points in fact to Issac being a bastard child, not fathered by Abe, as well as the child who was sent off not Ishmael. For the sake of not hijacking the thread I won’t go into it, but it is relevant to mention at least.

As to the ongoing argument about Islam’s god not being that of Abe’s, this is an amateur attempt to remove Islam from all context of the Christian god, which for the simple reason that Mohammed when forming his religion would have been a fool to point to point to some strange new god rather than one already established. He did exactly what the Christians themselves did by creating the Jesus duality, but Mohammed was actually a bit smarter than the Christians for they went through all manner of machinations to make theirs while he simply called on Abe’s cast off firstborn to make his claim.

But in the context of Genesis, Mohammed had in fact one more piece of prosperity to using the Hebrew god as his own in that God promised Abe nations of his seed and to be “ a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.” This was the year before Issac’s birth, where god later confirmed; “And also of the son of thy bondswoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.” God said nothing about isolating Ishmael from his graces.

Double wrong again.
The crescent moon on whose flag? I wasn't aware that Islam had a flag. Perhaps you are referring to the Arabian flag (even though Arabia's current rulers are not well known for following Islam properly)? Whoops...no, even the Arabian flag has no crescent

Your penchant for inserting hate and sarcasm where there should be knowledge and research has lead me to make this the last response to you before putting you on ignore. If you cant research it, then just ask.


islam.about.com...

The crescent moon and star is an internationally-recognized symbol of the faith of Islam. The symbol is featured on the flags of several Muslim countries, and is even part of the official emblem for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. The Christians have the cross, the Jews have the star of David, and the Muslims have the crescent moon, right?

What is the history behind the crescent moon symbol? What does it symbolize or mean? How and when did it become associated with the faith of Islam? Is it a valid symbol for the faith?

You have seen the pictures of Mary and baby Jesus? You know that these pictures come from an earlier time? They do.
The star of Venus is the symbol of the sex goddess that is celebrated at Easter. The moon is the symbol of her son.

Also, from islamonline.net

First of all, we’d like to voice our appreciation for the confidence you repose in us, and we hope our efforts come up to your expectation, and pray to Almighty Allah to help you in your study.

As for the issue you raised, we’d like to state that “the crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana

Here is an early find with all three symbols on it


#######################

Nygdan

Then why did mohammed destroy the old idols and say to worhsip the god of abraham? Its either the moongod or the god of abraham. Muslims say they worhsip the god of abraham, therefore, they worhsip the god of abraham.

Muhammed did one of these...

Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

Muhammed came and declared the christian God. The Jewish God. The one at the time in mecca with the most followers was the one he used. He said that allah is really the God of Abraham etc..

Once they had accepted that idea, it was easy to insert some biblical 'law' and thus hijack both the moongod and bible.
Muhammeds clan did business as far away as (then) christian Syria. He had contanct with jews and christians.






One is a picture of a symbol of the god , 'sin'
The other is from mecca today.
Same god, same symbols.
There are many many more.
Islam is satans attempt to keep people from the truth of Christ.

ALthought I might be wrong and there might be antoher reason as to why the turk flag is a moon. Especailyl sincethe Turks aren't arabs.

The turks are muslims and that is why.
For more
www.enchantedlearning.com...

Please understand that as a christian, I believe for fact, that all of this symbolism came directly from sumeria / babylon

Ridiculous, yet there is truth in it. Christian traditions are in large part based on the pagan traditions that the peopel held before christianizing

Thank you.
You can probably understand why I see rome as apostate too. They have the exact same symbols AND they even document when they took them on in some cases.

Finally, here are some great pictures. They are worth a billion words
doormann.tripod.com...
Please goto that link if you dont do any others

Thanks

Originally posted by jake1997
Your penchant for inserting hate and sarcasm where there should be knowledge and research has lead me to make this the last response to you before putting you on ignore. If you cant research it, then just ask.

It wasn't sarcasm. I was just getting tired of having to explain the same thing AGAIN and AGAIN. No matter, I did not mean to be vindictive. If it came out like that, sorry. By the way, this is from the same link you posted. It also (for Nygdan) explains the origin of the Turkish flag:

Crescent Moon
The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.
It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol.

And then this:

Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.

Originally posted by jake1997
One is a picture of a symbol of the god , 'sin'
The other is from mecca today.
Same god, same symbols.

Nope, even according to the names of files, both symbols are ~2000BC. Besides, how does posting some random pictures prove anything?

Originally posted by jake1997
Please understand that as a christian, I believe for fact, that all of this symbolism came directly from sumeria / babylon

Where in the bible does it tell you "believe for a fact" (wow...what an oxymoron), that all of this symbolism proves that Islam follows moon worship? All I can find is something about "dusting off your sandals and walking away". I don't see you doing that here. You are actively attacking a religion. Neither is that acceptable according to your Bible, and neither is it going to work.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by babloyi]

Originally posted by jake1997

Double wrong again.
The crescent moon on whose flag? I wasn't aware that Islam had a flag. Perhaps you are referring to the Arabian flag (even though Arabia's current rulers are not well known for following Islam properly)? Whoops...no, even the Arabian flag has no crescent

Your penchant for inserting hate and sarcasm

So lets get it straight, its perfectly 'not hateful' to say his god is a paganistic baby eating moon god named baal, but if he's sarcastic about there being an 'arabic flag', then he's being hateful??

islam.about.com...[/url]

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world

This, perhaps, is precisely the point. The moon flag is a symbol of the Ottoman Empire. THe ottoman turks aren't arabs. The moon we normally associate with islam isn't an arab symbol. We associate it with islam because the thing that we interacted with as islam was the ottoman empire.
Its like muslims thinking that the Coca Cola symbol is a symbol of jesus.

You have seen the pictures of Mary and baby Jesus? You know that these pictures come from an earlier time? They do.

As does the entire idea of a god dying on the cross and ressurecting and ascending into heaven.
The star of Venus is the symbol of the sex goddess that is celebrated at Easter. The moon is the symbol of her son.
The moon, being something big in the heavens, is something that figures into lots of traditions. I don't see why the turkish crescent moon, apparently maintained by the christians in whats now Istanbul, is a symbol of the son of venus/isis/ishtar.
So why a moon? Largely because the Ottoman Turks adopted it. Why did they? Apparently it was a big symbol amoung the people of byzantium/constantinople/istanbul.The Central Asian ottoman turks wouldn't know anything about Hubal the arab moon god.

Muhammed came and declared the christian God. The Jewish God. The one at the time in mecca with the most followers was the one he used. He said that allah is really the God of Abraham etc..

Once they had accepted that idea, it was easy to insert some biblical 'law' and thus hijack both the moongod and bible.

How? The arabs worship their pagan gods. THere are chrisians and jews running around too. Mo comes along, smashes the idols, and says 'worship the one true supreme creator god, the god of abraham, the worship of which the jews and christians have falterd with and gotten wrong over the generations'. How is that taking up the moon god at all??

Same god, same symbols

One's a moon, the other looks like a moon and a star. What of it?? The same symbols do not make them the same gods. That doesn't make sense. If Unitarians use a cross, and the greek orthodox use a cross, does that mean that their gods are exactly the same?? Unitarians deny the divne nature of christ, the orthodox enshrine it.
Symbols are symbols, not gods. Mo smashes the idol of the moon god and says "worship The Lord". What difference does it make that some peopel keep the same symbol? They kept the kabba, figuring that it was sent from the heavens, so it must've been sent by the Lord, not Hubal like they used to think, or any other god. Similarly, christians of today have kept the practices of the pagan ancestors, but still beleive and worship christ, not zeus.

Islam is satans attempt to keep people from the truth of Christ.

Muslims would claim that christianity is a religion that has gotten the teachings of christ wrong. Jews would agree. Every religion beleives that the other religions are either wrong, or lead by satan.

The turks are muslims and that is why.

Hardly matters. They're not arabs. When they use a moon flag, it can't be for an arab pagan god that they've never even heard of.

Please understand that as a christian, I believe for fact, that all of this symbolism came directly from sumeria / babylon

The same place where the jews come from.
God told abraham that he'd make his peopel great, and when ishmael left, he said he'd make his people, the arabs, great also. Why is it immpossible that god revealed the nature of monotheism to the arabs, because he saw that they had 'went astray' and were worshipping idols? What does it matter that he doesn't mentioned Christ? Christ existed in abraham's time, but there was no mention of him. Its not unthinkable that god gave mo divine revelation, just as he gave jews divine revelation, and that the arabs simply 'messed up' with the part about jesus. They should, at least, not be any more 'condemmed' than the jews.

On the roof of the Maqam Ibrahim near the Ka'bah in 'Al Haram' the Symbol of the ascending and Crescent Moon is still present

Christians used to use the fish as their symbol. Does that mean that they worship neptune?
Lets put it like this. God gave mo divine revlation, as above. Arabs said 'awesome, makes sense', and started to worship the Creator God, but still kept some of their old decorations.
Whats the crime in that? The symbols are meaningless, they have no objective reality. If I put a menorah in my house, that doesn't make me jewish. If I am an unbeleiver, but go to church take communion, get baptised, etc etc, whats it matter? Those things are symbols. Muslims have held on to the symbol of the moon god. What of it? They worship the God of Abraham, explicitly, the same god who, in the torah and bible, says he's going to make a great people out of them. Is it immpossible that god wants muslims christians and jews to get along, just as different christians, even different 'fundamentalist' christians have different beleifs yet 'get along'??

There are many pictures there that deny your logic.
Mecca is loaded with the pagan origins just as the Vatican is loaded with its pagan origins.
Islam and the RCC are on equal footing. The RCC has the sungod and sex goddess imagry everywhere, while islam has the moongod and sex goddess imagry.

I realize your just taking a side to debate, but the fact remains that the origins are pagan and the symbols are all still there as I showed in my posted links.

I posted a muslim biased link and that clearly says the moon/star is the default symbol of islam. At mecca, we see both. Thats enough for me

Originally posted by jake1997
There are many pictures there that deny your logic.
Mecca is loaded with the pagan origins just as the Vatican is loaded with its pagan origins.

Of course it was. But your claim is that Islam still follows paganism, which is false. You posted a link showing that the crescent moon has pagan origins, but you didn't show that it is meant to be a symbol of Islam.

Originally posted by jake1997
I posted a muslim biased link and that clearly says the moon/star is the default symbol of islam. At mecca, we see both. Thats enough for me

Which one? the islam.about.com site? I showed you where it said that muslims DO NOT take it to be their symbol. Or are you talking about the islamonline.net, you showed again that the crescent is pagan, but it talks nowhere about it being a symbol of Islam.

What you are doing is meaningless. I could post a pic of the pagan symbology of the cross:


and even a link from some professor fellow who seems to have ideas similar to yours about the Catholic Church:
davidmacd.com...

To show you that the Cross has pagan symbology. And that would be more valid too. Almost all Christians use a cross as their symbol.

Not trying to deviate from the topic, just showing you how invalid your argument is.

It all aways amazes me, of peoples ignorance of the Koran. They have these misinformed views, and get answers form books or websites. Some are Christian sites that have a pure hate for Islam.
How about reading the Koran. Then make a judgment. TO long for you to read, I bet.

Allah is just the Arabic word for GOD. Just like Yawea(Spelled wrong) or others. The Jews had diffrent names for GOD. It is the same GOD though.
Hate to break it to you. Muslims worship the same GOD and your same prophets. Except Muhmmad.

Islam is totally agianst pagens.

I can show or point you to Pagen rituals that Christians do and celeabrate.
They use to be pagen, does that mean they still are.

Christmas= Easter=Pagen Holidays.

You hear pagen refrences in our every day lingo. Abra Kadabra, or Knock on Wood.



[edit on 14-5-2005 by Snowman9]

[edit on 14-5-2005 by Snowman9]

[edit on 14-5-2005 by Snowman9]

Originally posted by Snowman9
It all aways amazes me, of peoples ignorance of the Koran.

Same here. The hadiths too

They have these misinformed views, and get answers form books or websites. Some are Christian sites that have a pure hate for Islam.

oxymoron - contradiction if you mean that they hate muslims. Hating evil is fine...and islam is the spirit of the antichrist.
Anything or one that denies the divinity of Jesus is the spirit of the antichrist.

How about reading the Koran. Then make a judgment. TO long for you to read, I bet.

rather presumptive arent we?

Allah is just the Arabic word for GOD. Just like Yawea(Spelled wrong) or others. The Jews had diffrent names for GOD. It is the same GOD though.

today. You can change your name and you will not change WHO you are. Mecca holds the symbols...even if the pictures arent in the quran.

Hate to break it to you. Muslims worship the same GOD and your same prophets. Except Muhmmad.

Christians dont worship prophets. You should know that. The bible says this is a lie. It says that anyone who denies Christ, does not have God either.

Islam is totally agianst pagens.

Yep. Except for everything they do in their religion as stated above

I can show or point you to Pagen rituals that Christians do and celeabrate.
They use to be pagen, does that mean they still are.

Christmas= Easter=Pagen Holidays.

You must be confusing Christ with catholic.
You can call them the same if you want, but if they dont keep Christs word then they are not His.
When your ready to start, let me know and I will help you out.

All religons have adopted pagen rituals. Man has a hard time whorsiping something he cant see and touch. If you dont see this than you are in denial. I know Christians do not worship prophets, but you guys follow and listen to there teachings. Islam has those same prophets in there Kopran, even Jesus. Mecca and those cerimonys in the Pilgramge they do once a year is Pagen, but the religon is not. They have your same values.

Christians celebrate Christmas= Pagen Holiday= Druid holiday that was used to help convert people over, who did not want to give up there holidays. Trees,Ivy,Missle toe are pagen rituals from this holiday.

Easter= The god Eshtas from Carthridge. Origanlly a pagen holiday.

Halloween= Pagen Holliday, I dont need to explain that.

Why do Christians prop up statues of Jesus everywhere. Some pray to them. God said not make no Idols or paintings of him. He knew mans nature.

Now I know that these Christmas and Easter are not pagen holidays now, but they where. So was some of cerimonys in Islam they where, but mean diffrent things now.

So should we blast Christianty too.
Remember Catholic was the first Christian church. All others where spawned from that.

[edit on 14-5-2005 by Snowman9]

You mention many CATHOLIC holy days.
None are christian.
Show them to me in the bible.
Easter is catholic, not christian. Passover is christian. In 325 the catholics switched to easter because they hated jews and didnt want anything to do with them.

Islam DOES NOT have the same values as the Bible

The bible says that Islam is the spirit of the antichrist. Thats enough isnt it?

In the quran you can be a good muslim by staying peaceful
In the quran you can be a good muslim by waging Jihad
no wonder they dont know what to do.

The quran says that Muhammed is like Moses
The bible says that Jesus is THE ONE that is like Moses.
Both cant be right.

You say you were a christian, I say you didnt retain much of your bible readings

First of all have you ever read the Koran? It does not sound like it.
I dont remember reading anything about Islam in the Bible.
That is your theory.

If you hate Islam just say so. Oh wait you already have.

I do remember my readings and I thought being a CHristian meant being open minded and full of love. Not hate and ignorance. Forgivness and to set an example to people. What example do you set by spreading hate.
Your Igonrance about you religon is scary, because you feel so strongly about it.

Easter and Christmas are not in the Bible, but they are accepted by Christian society. Do you go to church on Easter Sunday?

In the quran you can be a good muslim by staying peaceful
In the quran you can be a good muslim by waging Jihad
no wonder they dont know what to do.
(osted by Jake1997) ^

Turn the other cheek. A eye for a eye. They contradict each other.

The quran says that Muhammed is like Moses
The bible says that Jesus is THE ONE that is like Moses.
Both cant be right.(Posted By Jake1997) ^

Thats because you both think your the chose ones.


Jews, Christians, and Islam come from the same root. I know you hate it, but it is true.

Once agian read the Koran before you blast it. Read about the history of the middle east. Read the history of the Jewish people. Read and understand Jewish philosophy. Then you might have a better understanding.

By the way, Catholics invented the Dogma, that you preach.
Look it up.


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[edit on 14-5-2005 by Snowman9]

Of course the quran is not in the bible
The bible is in the quran

Dont you know that all of islam hangs on a verse in the bible?
It appears not.

You also misquoted the bible. Let me help you out
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Now about those holidays

On one hand you say people who keep christs words are christians
On the other hand you say that people who dont keep christs words and keep pagan holidays are christians
make up your mind.

That is all part of satans antichristian conspiracy. We are running up to the end time and the line is becoming blurred ...ignorance about Christ is ruling general society.
People wouldnt recognize christ...so they wont know the difference when the antichrist appears.

I know the quran quite well. I know it because I have two friends who are former muslims, and are now born again christians.
I know that all the traditions kept by islam belong to the moongod cult and so do the symbols at mecca
If it looks like a duck....

and you can apply that same thing to rome
home.nc.rr.com...

So you never read it. Then how do you truly know? YOu dont you have to take others word. So you relly know nothing, you know someones opinion.

THe Quran does not hang on every word of the Bible. It uses texts and passages from The thorah, some from the Gospels and some texts that did not make into the Bible. (Like Thomas) You wouldnt know that , because you have not read it.

That is all part of satans antichristian conspiracy. We are running up to the end time and the line is becoming blurred ...ignorance about Christ is ruling general society.(Posted By Jake 1997).
^ Exactly (ignorance about Christ) Thank you.

Originally posted by Snowman9
So you never read it. Then how do you truly know? YOu dont you have to take others word. So you relly know nothing, you know someones opinion.

quote me. Your words not mine.
Ive actually read quite a bit and have expert backup

THe Quran does not hang on every word of the Bible. It uses texts and passages from The thorah, some from the Gospels and some texts that did not make into the Bible. (Like Thomas) You wouldnt know that , because you have not read it.

The quran lives and dies by a verse from the OT. Which verse is it? If muslims are wrong about it, there is no islam.
what is it?
I know
Do you?

That is all part of satans antichristian conspiracy. We are running up to the end time and the line is becoming blurred ...ignorance about Christ is ruling general society.(Posted By Jake 1997).
^ Exactly (ignorance about Christ) Thank you.

You said it. Its rare that someone here finally admits to it.
Thank you

Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by Snowman9
So you never read it. Then how do you truly know? YOu dont you have to take others word. So you relly know nothing, you know someones opinion.

quote me. Your words not mine.
Ive actually read quite a bit and have expert backup

THe Quran does not hang on every word of the Bible. It uses texts and passages from The thorah, some from the Gospels and some texts that did not make into the Bible. (Like Thomas) You wouldnt know that , because you have not read it.

The quran lives and dies by a verse from the OT. Which verse is it? If muslims are wrong about it, there is no islam.
what is it?
I know
Do you?

That is all part of satans antichristian conspiracy. We are running up to the end time and the line is becoming blurred ...ignorance about Christ is ruling general society.(Posted By Jake 1997).
^ Exactly (ignorance about Christ) Thank you.

You said it. Its rare that someone here finally admits to it.
Thank you

Im talking about you ignorance on Islam and Jesus. ^
It is sad that so called Christans like you, turn so many people off to your faith.

[edit on 14-5-2005 by Snowman9]

If telling the truth about Islam is turning people off to Christ, and if not accepting other religions is wrong...

then brand me with your iron.

Your problem is you dont think christianity is right...so you couldnt possibly believe that christians could know if islam is wrong. From your view,,all are the same.

Not me. My faith demands it. Jesus said you wouldnt like me, so Im not too concerned with that either