Allah = Hubal = Baal?

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posted on May, 9 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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After doing some reading into conversations and discussions between christians and islamics on the "answering christianity" and "answering islam" sites I found some interesting historical information about Allah and how the worship of Allah started, unveiling a conspiracy about who or what Allah really is, and who Islamic people have been worshipping all these years...

It is a long read so I picked out the most important part, all the background info can be found in the link.

In conclusion, we need to emphasize that these facts remain. The OT explicitly denies the Muslim assertion that the pre-Islamic Ishmaelites knew and worshiped the true God and that their only problem was that they associated other gods with him. The data conclusively shows that as the centuries unfolded the Ishmaelites forsook the God of their ancestors Abraham and Jacob, Yahweh Elohim, for the worship of some false god. The false god whom they worshiped as the true God was quite possibly Baal. The data also shows that Hubal was the high god worshiped at Mecca, which supports the view that he was the Allah of pre-Islamic times.

We started out with a quotation from the Psalms identifying the Ishmaelites as enemies of God. Even though the thesis of this paper was argued on the basis of the assumption that the Meccans are Ishmaelites the conclusion does not depend on this assumption. Most of the quotations we have cited to support our argument do not mention Ishmaelites at all.

The Biblical and historical evidence shows that the Moabites worshiped Baal. The pre-Islamic and Muslim sources show (a) that the Meccans took over the idol Hubal from the Moabites and (b) that Allah and Hubal are actually identical. Thus, whether the Meccans are Ishmaelites or not, the evidence is still strong and sufficient to conclude that Muhammad's Allah is actually Hubal, i.e. the Baal of the Moabites and thus not the God of the Bible. Muhammad incorporated the characteristics and names of various other gods into his new monotheistic message about Allah, but he apparently started the construction of Allah with Hubal, the chief god of the Meccans.


This is the link:
www.answering-islam.org.uk...


To me it is quite a revelation to find out that the Allah as we know it today, is actually the god that people first worshipped under the names Baal and Hubal, which is also why I think this info is supposed to be in conspiracies.

Baal, the god that many christians see as a spiritual being on the side of Satan (a demon) whos job it is to spread confusion and keep people away from christianity, appeared to have vanished in history on first sight, but now, after closer inspection, it seems baal is still around today, with just a different name, and more followers than ever.

Wether or not these christians are right may never be proven, but it sure is clear that the God of the bible is not the God of the Koran.


[edit on 9-5-2005 by Jakko]




posted on May, 9 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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This is a fascinating topic and a true conspiracy.

I did some Googling when I saw this just as your signature...it is clear that Allah evolved from Baal, down to the lingustic level. Although the Koran lists Baal as a false god (according to some websites I've seen) careful research shows that the idea of Allah really did evolve from Baal. I'd be interested to see what some of our Muslim friends have to say about this...



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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I have discussed this information with my mother, a Christian as I am, before and we found the same information and conclusions. Of course, I don't incite muslims with damning info for fear of being decapitated.


Ok, you're right, poor joke.

This doesn't mean that I think all muslims are evil, but I do believe they serve a false god/religion. But the Koran (sp?) does propose extreme violence and prejudice toward the "infidels" which I do not consider peaceful in the least.
This being the case, are peaceful muslims really adgering to the tenets of their "religion"?
If not, are they "waiting for the right moment" to overcome the infidels or do they just not agree with islams more violent tendancies?

Inquiring minds want to know...



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Hi,

I knew that the Allah was on Satan's side and not the God of the Bible, but I did not know any of this history. This is a great topic and great post.
Thank you.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 09:19 AM
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Perhaps a better question to ask directly of Muslims is "Do you truly believe that Allah is Yehwah (the Jewish/Christian God)?"



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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Each individual should be allowed to answer for themselves, but I would think that the mere fact that they follow islam would give a good idea of their answer...



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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one God with many, many names.

God is pleased to be recognized and worshipped no matter what name we small, insignificant creatures use to call upon him/her/it/them - God is genderless but our language is just too limited - that's not God's fault.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by Al Davison
one God with many, many names.

God is pleased to be recognized and worshipped no matter what name we small, insignificant creatures use to call upon him/her/it/them - God is genderless but our language is just too limited - that's not God's fault.



Certain names may not represent the Creator though, as the bible points out regarding Baal. The question to ask would be, how important is the name to us, and to God?
Is there a difference between serving name A and name B even if you mean the same God.

Cause I think there is.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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Yes the Bible specifically condemns the worship of Baal as worshipping a false god. It certainly is not worshipping God to worship Baal.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 10:37 AM
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Hey Jakko
I can't seem to open the link you provided. Can you post the answers (from the website or yourself) to the questions I pose here?
As you stated yourself, all this information is from biased Anti-religion1, Anti-religion2 websites. This "Allah is moon-god" stuff seems to have been started by a Dr. Robert Morey. Here is an Islamic reply to what he says. Which one do you believe more? See, it is all subjective.
I can't see Ishmaelites as being "evil". Although according to the Bible, they were not "Chosen", they were still promised "A Great Nation". Not a "Cursed Nation". Check this to see some other stuff I noticed about Ishmael.

BTW, Hubal was just one of the god's in the Pre-Islamic Arab pantheon. He was certainly nowhere near the top of the Pantheon. Hubal could not possibly be Allah, because both were worshipped at the same time separately. Hubal was known by hundreds of names. He was the god of the moon. Arabs used their gods more for commerce than religion. As many gods as possible were added to the pantheon in hopes of drawing pilgrims from all over (so as to get more money from them).

Baal could not possibly be the same as Allah:

Surah 37:
123. So also was Elias among those sent (by Us).
124. Behold, he said to his people, "Will ye not fear ((Allah))?
125. "Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,-
126. "(Allah), your Lord and Cherisher and the Lord and Cherisher of your fathers of old?"
127. But they rejected him, and they will certainly be called up (for punishment),-
128. Except the sincere and devoted Servants of Allah (among them).
129. And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:
130. "Peace and salutation to such as Elias!"
131. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
132. For he was one of our believing Servants.

As well as this:

Surah 41:37
And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Prostrate not to the sun nor to the moon, but prostrate to Allah Who created them, if you (really) worship Him.



Originally posted by djohnsto77
Perhaps a better question to ask directly of Muslims is "Do you truly believe that Allah is Yehwah (the Jewish/Christian God)?"

Certainly do. I agree with Al Davison. You know what "Allah" means? "The God". There is nothing "linguistically connecting it" to Hubal.
Just because the names God gave one group of people and the names God gave the other group don't match (and why should they, considering the different languages?) doesn't mean that it is not the same God.

[edit on 9-5-2005 by babloyi]



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi
Certainly do. I agree with Al Davison. You know what "Allah" means? "The God". There is nothing "linguistically connecting it" to Hubal.
Just because the names God gave one group of people and the names God gave the other group don't match (and why should they, considering the different languages?) doesn't mean that it is not the same God.


From what I've read the word "Allah" did come from the word "Baal" but that certainly doesn't mean Muslims are worshipping Baal now. My grandmother was an Arab Christian and would sometimes say "Allah" meaning God.

If you say that's whom you are worshipping then that's whom you are worshipping, I wont question your beliefs!



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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it's interesting to see the way dominant religions evolve, for instance the pagan and other pre-christ mythological symbols in christianity (including christmas day, which i believe was the roman pagan holiday Saturnalia) is absolutely amazing.

Also I believe that Allah is also the god of abraham, the god of jews, christians and muslims alike.

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 9-5-2005 by drfunk]



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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You people make me laugh. Which is the real god which is the fake.

Just to be on the safe side, don't take a side.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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I have found an interesting site explaining the origins of the words Allah, Elohim (note how those two actually sound alike). It explains the things quite nicely and it seems to contain more scientific research from credible sources then the "answering islam" site.

"Webster’s Dictionary gives the definition and etymology of Allah as follows. Allah is the Muslim name for "the God." Allah is derived from two words "al," which means "the" and "ilah," which is related to the feminine Hebrew word for God, "eloah."

Now the Hebrew title or name for God is 'Elohim' and it is the plural form of eloah. It is made plural by adding "im," which is masculine. This corresponds to adding "s" to make a word plural in English. So the commonality between Allah and Elohim is "eloah" and "ilah."

According the Huston Smith’s book The World’s Religions (p. 222), it states: "Allah is formed by joining the definite article al meaning ‘the’ with Ilah (God). Literally, Allah means ‘The God.’ … When the masculine plural ending im is dropped from the Hebrew word for God, Elohim, the two words sound much alike." Eloah (Hebrew feminine) is similar to Ilah (God). Both Elohim and Allah are titles and not names.
"


More here:

www.plim.org...



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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Kind of off topic, but the funniest/saddest thing to me as an outsider/American/Christian of the Jewish/Muslim problems is that the religious fundamentalists on both sides seem almost exactly the same. The hardcore fundamentalist Jews and Muslims appear to pray the same, dress the same, treat women the same, etc., etc., etc.....

[edit on 5/9/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 12:21 PM
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The website goes offline and online all the time.
This is google cache for the website.
66.102.9.104...:NYG3iP0sqXAJ:answering-islam.org.uk/Shamoun/ishmael-baal.htm+%22the+chief+god+of+the+Meccans%22&hl=nl



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by paperclip
I have found an interesting site explaining the origins of the words Allah, Elohim (note how those two actually sound alike). It explains the things quite nicely and it seems to contain more scientific research from credible sources then the "answering islam" site.


That link talks about the meaning of the word allah, not about the historical background of what god is the god of the islam and how it came to be.

You assume my link doesn't contain enough scientific research, yet the link I posted wasn't even working, which makes me doubt you even looked at it.

So did you?



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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I guess Islam is kind of the odd religion out among the three monotheistic religions purportedly worshipping the same God as it doesn't share any scripture with the others as I understand it. Whereas Christianity adopted all Jewish scripture and cannonized it as the true 'Word of God,' then appending the Christian part to the end of it, with the Koran Muslims have a full new text rewriting all earlier text and mixing their own beliefs into it. This makes it easy to question the authenticity of Muslim scripture of having any basis in the one true God.


[edit on 5/9/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko


You assume my link doesn't contain enough scientific research, yet the link I posted wasn't even working, which makes me doubt you even looked at it.

So did you?


Hehe, Jakko, I am very familiar with that site, since I already had the pleasure of correcting their "facts" on several occasions.

The point is, Allah is not just one god, it is not a name of God, it is simply a title. That word MEANS god, take a dictionary and translate it, it equals the english word "god", the german word "Gott" and so on.

Mohammad said that arabs should stop worshipping allahs and worship only one Allah, the Allah of Abraham. He didn't construct the belief, it was ALREADY THERE, as stated numerous times in Qur'an. He is one in the line of many prophets. The connection to jewish and christian beliefs is there. The nature of islamic belief is to worship the same God jews and christians worship. We share the same prophets, the same stories, the same creation story.

What you are saying can be compared with me saying germans do not worship the same god as we do because they use the word "Gott" and not "God" and they have used that word "Gott" in connection with one of the gods they worhiped before christianity came.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko
The OT explicitly denies the Muslim assertion that the pre-Islamic Ishmaelites knew and worshiped the true God

So? The koran says they did. Looks like an impass.

The false god whom they worshiped as the true God was quite possibly Baal.

Doubtful. Baal was worshipped in the northern parts of the levant, not the arabian peninsula.

The data also shows that Hubal was the high god worshiped at Mecca, which supports the view that he was the Allah of pre-Islamic times.

Thats some sloppy thinking on that guys part. Thats like saying Zeus is the jesus of pre-jesus times.

We started out with a quotation from the Psalms identifying the Ishmaelites as enemies of God

Wow, and they just so happened to be a competing tribe of the peopel who wrote Psalms. Whoda thought that psalms'd say bad things about them.

The Biblical and historical evidence shows that the Moabites worshiped Baal.

Such as what?

that Allah and Hubal are actually identical

Thats nonsensical. They're two different gods. Its like saying that the sumerians had a big god named Anu, and that the abrahamites left sumer, therefore Jehovad and Anu are the same.

sufficient to conclude that Muhammad's Allah is actually Hubal, i.e. the Baal of the Moabites and thus not the God of the Bible

Ok, so now we've gone from tenuous, bizzare and unsupported assertions with faulty logic tying it toghther, to somethign thats just outright stupid.
Muslims don't worship baal or hubal. The very suggestion is nonsense. They clearly state that they worship a single, only, monotheistic, supreme creator god, called the lord, al-la. This is like noticing the similarities between Sol Invictus and Jesus, and saying that the apostles worshiped Sol Invictus. They worshipped what they said they worshiped.

Wether or not these christians are right may never be proven, but it sure is clear that the God of the bible is not the God of the Koran.

How do you figure? Because paganistic arabs worshiped a bunch of gods and then became monotheists? BY this reasoning, the christians in germany are worshipping Odin, but the christians in italy are worshipping Jupiter.





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