Originally posted by Byrd
summary is pretty much what most of the scholars say
Considering that you are a Master's student and well studied in anthropology, sociology, and related fields, I honestly take that comment as a good
indicator that I haven't strayed too far afield in my own informal studies.
But if you do believe in the possibility of Baal somehow being related to or inspired by a demon (yeah sounds crazy I know), the discussion
becomes much more interesting and fits better in this section of the site.
Trying to make the gods of other religions into demons and devils is, in all honesty, a task that a person should avoid. Obviously, Islam and
Christianity are two very different religions. They both claim to worship the god that the ancient hebrews worshiped, and both claim to have thier
religion started by a 'divine(lyinspired) reformer', whether its jesus or mohammed. The muslims beleive that the jews and christians have corrupted
the true word of the one and only supreme god, creator of the universe, moulder of adam and inspireror of Abraham, in part thru their own folly and in
part because of the machinations of shaitan and deception. Christians think precisely the same thing about themselves as muslims and about muslims as
they think of christians, that they worship the god of abraham and that the muslims have been mislead by a false prophet tricked by satan. The irony
is thicker than a pop song that lists stuff that isn't ironic as ironic.
You cannot, rationally, demonstrate that Allah is really a demon. When Mo came with 'The New Religion' it was of a new god, he said 'forget hubal,
the moon god, the godess of the desert, the lady of the oasis, forget it all, its all deception and foolishness, for there is only one god, the
supreme creator god, the administer of universal and divine justice, the only, single, super-powerful, all seeing all knowing all powerful god of the
universe'. That alone
demonstrates that they aren't worshipping shaitan or any variation of Baal. And added
to that is the fact that
the story of the koran has Abraham as the great patriarch whom god first spoke to, and the story of genesis and adam and even and the paradisical
garden, and everything
, indicates that the arabs were aware of the jewish religious traditions, and also the christian ones (since jesus is
apparently mentioned nearly as much as mohammed in the hadiths), and that with the impetus of Divine Revelation given to Mohammed by God on High, they
formed the purest, most monotheistic, most god-fearing version of the judeao religions.
Its senseless to suppose that christianity is the true religion, and that therefore islam must be wrong, and that therefore if anyone spoke to
Mohammed it must've been either satan himself or a minor demon who until then had been content with being worshipped and idolized as Baal.
From that site you note,
Muhammad freed his tribe the Quick Facts about: Quraish
Quick Summary not found for this subjectQuraish (القريش) from their pagan worship by smashing all the idols at the Kaaba, including
He smashes Hubals idols and says 'worhsip the only god, Allah, the god of abraham' and you are seriously contending that the muslims were
worshipping Hubal still??
According to Hitti, a tradition recorded by Muhammad's early biographer ibn-Hisham, which makes Amr ibn-Luhayy the importer of this idol from
Moab or Mesopotamia,
Not for nothing, but a writer long after mohammed can't honestly expect, with out evidence, to demonstrate that hubal is an import. Baal is a
semitic word, the arabs are a semitic speaking people, finding bal, baa, or any such variant, attached to the name of one of their gods is
insignificant. It merely reinforces the fact that they are all semitic speakers, just as 'father, pater, pader' reinforces the fact that indians,
germans, latins, and americans are all indo-european speakers. It does not make Jesus Bhrama.
Muhammad ibn Ishaq said that Hubal was cornelian pearl in the shape of a human. His right hand was broken off and the Quraysh made a gold hand
is Hubal. Hubal is nothing more. Hubal is
the idol, the idol is the god. Allah is not described as being made of pearl, nor of
having golden hand, nor any of that. And
the Kabba, apparently, is already
Hubal is brought in. The idol is
brought to 'the big meteor from heaven itself'.
and also, if there is any doubt
Hubal was also the same idol which abu-Sufyan ibn-Harb addressed when he emerged victorious after the battle of Uhud, saying:
"Hubal, be thou exalted;"
To which the Prophet replied:
"Allah is more exalted and more majestic."
Mo is the guy that received divine revelation, the pagan arabs stuck to their ways, and only slowly came to accept the supreme god, precisely like the
pagan gentiles stuck to their old ways, and only slowly came to accept jesus.
BTW, etymologically (or at least phonetically), Hubal doesn't match Baal or Allah. Hub-al stresses the "huB" part, while "Baal" is just
continuous, doesn't stress anything
All of this really just shows that one can't make bland 'folk' etymological associations. Its too weak a foundation to prop anything upon.
Perhaps this link can clarify the lack of truth in this thread.
What, pray, tell, did you think was convincing from that, an apologetics site?
I wouldn't base my conclusions on what others interpret from it
Then why should he, or anyone else, base their truth on your reading of it?
Uhm, you are, rember:
Quite the blasphemous person aren't you leveller.
I find it ironic, once again, that, on the one hand, some peopel can talk about how allah is bs because god isn't autocratic, but then can say that
because leveler is trying to examine the situation with and independant mind, that he is a blasphemer. Sheer absurdity. Don't agree
with my interpretation, you are a sinner. You, and others, suggest that everyone else read the bible? How about you try reading it? Who were the
bookish prelates who threw accusations of blasphemy at He who disagreed with them? Perhaps you (and not trying to direct it only at you) and other
oughtn't reject everyone around you??