U.S. Suspends Israel from JSF Project.

TEL AVIV (Reuters): The United States has suspended Israel from joint efforts to produce a new warplane, in protest at the Jewish state's defense dealings with China, an Israeli newspaper said on Thursday citing U.S. sources.
The Pentagon included Israel among foreign partners in developing the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) in 2003. Under the deal, Israel was promised first purchase of the advanced warplanes due out next decade, ahead of non-partner nations.

But Maariv daily said Washington suspended Israel from the JSF project after alleging it had violated a U.S. export ban by upgrading China's fleet of Israeli-supplied Harpy attack drones.

Link to rest of article

Don't think the US is serious about foreign arms sales to China, Israel just found out first hand. Personally, if the EU goes through with the lifting of the arms ban against China, look to see possible similar/like actions.





seekerof

Wow, this is interesting. I'm glad that the government is no longer turning a blind eye to whatever Israel does.

Good to hear this.
The tech behind this plane would have ended up in China's hands just like the Lavi fighter-plane.

This is good news, Israel should have to abide by the same set of rules as everyone else. I hope they don't get any F-35's and if they do get the F-35’s they better be stripped of any secret advanced tech.

I also am for this but with the announcement of the Rafale sale to the Saudis the Israeli's get the F-35's anyway.

Bout time, Israel made a bad call and got busted. They can't even be honest about getting caught red-handed arming China with advanced drones, all they can claim is that they were doing "routine repairs"

We outta suspend payments to them and let Israel think twice about biting the hand that feeds them. I don't understand why Israel would make such a Bonehead move..... Americas really the only friend they got.....The Arabs hate em...the EU Hates em. I guess it all comes down to making a few bucks.....stab your friend in the back for a few bucks.


Maximu§

I too am in favor of this.

Iseal is the cause of a lot of problems for us...for them to stab us in the back as they have done MANY times is simply unnaceptable.

Bottom line, stop giving them ANY technology. The next time we catch them giving away secrets, we take away the money. It's that simple.

We don't need them as a watchdog in the ME anymore - we have our own bases in Afghanistan and Iraq. Right now they serve no purpose unless we use them to attack Iran.

Originally posted by Seekerof

TEL AVIV (Reuters): The United States has suspended Israel from joint efforts to produce a new warplane, in protest at the Jewish state's defense dealings with China, an Israeli newspaper said on Thursday citing U.S. sources.
The Pentagon included Israel among foreign partners in developing the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) in 2003. Under the deal, Israel was promised first purchase of the advanced warplanes due out next decade, ahead of non-partner nations.

But Maariv daily said Washington suspended Israel from the JSF project after alleging it had violated a U.S. export ban by upgrading China's fleet of Israeli-supplied Harpy attack drones.

Link to rest of article

Don't think the US is serious about foreign arms sales to China, Israel just found out first hand. Personally, if the EU goes through with the lifting of the arms ban against China, look to see possible similar/like actions.





seekerof

if that happeneds , abd for example , the UK sell some parts to chine - will the us drop them? if they do - i can see the F-35 being scrapped on cost grounds

Interesting...
All chicoms on this site say that the US and China are more friends than anyone perceives them to be..
Infact in many scenarios where I described Indo-China conflicts and mentioned that the US/Russia would mostly aid India covertly and logistically, or stay neutral; the only retort i got was that the US will be on China's side because
US-China trade surpasses Indo-US trade..wtf??

EDIT: Does the US have any probs with Indo-Israeli defenec ties?

Transfer between India-Israel:

Pine radar
Phalcon AWACS
UAVs
Avionics onboard Su-30 MKI and destroyer class vessels..

[edit on 22-4-2005 by Daedalus3]

btw is France involved in the JSF?

For that matter has it been involved in ANY US related programs??
What are their plans for Stealth aircraft??

Originally posted by American Mad Man

We don't need them as a watchdog in the ME anymore - we have our own bases in Afghanistan and Iraq. Right now they serve no purpose unless we use them to attack Iran.

You plan to stay there for good??!!

Originally posted by Daedalus3
btw is France involved in the JSF?

For that matter has it been involved in ANY US related programs??
What are their plans for Stealth aircraft??

To my knowledge, France hasnt participated in any US defence project, because they have one hell of a good aircraft industry themselves. The Rafale is a good plane, and unless you want to project enormous power over the entire globe like the US, its more than capable of being an airforces primary aircraft.

I guess France really is sticking to the 'We have been caught out by International politics not being a good defence before, this time we arent relying on anyone' way of thinking.

Bush is finally standing up to the Isreali's and it's about time too! This is great news IMO. No need to arm Isreali's already powerfull war machine even more now.

as posted by RichardPrice
I guess France really is sticking to the 'We have been caught out by International politics not being a good defence before, this time we arent relying on anyone' way of thinking.

I think alot of what your are indicating is because of their defense expenditures.
When I initially read your quote, the first thing that came to mind was 'Maginot Line'.
IMHO, money spent in the Rafale will be money well spent when compared to the massive national expenditures that came from the 'Maginot Line,' unless of course, one wnats to build one hellva' large museum.


Daedalus3:

EDIT: Does the US have any probs with Indo-Israeli defenec ties?

As long as 'big-time' tech is not tranferred or involved.
Then your also talking ideological differences when compared to the US reacting to a Indo-Israel military tech exchange/trading/assistance/etc. tie versus a Chinese-Israel mititary tech exchange/trading/assistance/etc.






seekerof


[edit on 22-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Harlequin
if that happeneds , abd for example , the UK sell some parts to chine - will the us drop them? if they do - i can see the F-35 being scrapped on cost grounds

Can't answer that with any type of accuracy.
If I was a nation that was closely tied to the US when it came to military assistance, trading of military hardware, tech, science, etc.....I would see what the US has done to Israel, by suspending them from their involvement in the JSF program, as a message.

But as with messages of this type, the option to heed or ignore is there.





seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof

I think alot of what your are indicating is because of their defense expenditures.
When I initially read your quote, the first thing that came to mind was 'Maginot Line'.

Actually, the Maginot line *was* money well spent - when attacked, most of the Maginot forts held out for a long long time until they were ordered to surrender when France capitulated to the Germans. Noone considered the possibility of Germany invading Belgium and simply bypassing the defences and attacking them from the rear, and that included Belgium!

What I meant was the League Of Nations was supposed to avert war, but took on a stance of appeasement to Germany when Hitler militarised many of the buffer zones between Germany and France and started rebuilding the German military well above the level allowed by the post 1918 agreements. If the major countries in the League of Nations had actually stood up to Germany during this time, the chance of World War 2 happening would have been muchly reduced because Germany wouldnt have been capable.

France was supposed to have been protected by these agreements, which of course failed because the League of Nations turned out to be a whimpering old dog with no teeth. I just see their post WW2 actions as a means of not having to ever rely on such agreements for a false sense of security, hence France maintaining their own Nuclear capability, the only modern full aircraft carriers outside of the US and Russia, their own aircraft industry and many more military projects.

IMHO, money spent in the Rafale will be money well spent when compared to the massive national expenditures that came from the 'Maginot Line,' unless of course, one wnats to build one hellva' large museum.

I fully agree! The Rafale is a very good aircraft, and is an excellent addition to any modern aircraft. I would like one

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Bout time, Israel made a bad call and got busted. They can't even be honest about getting caught red-handed arming China with advanced drones, all they can claim is that they were doing "routine repairs"

We outta suspend payments to them and let Israel think twice about biting the hand that feeds them. I don't understand why Israel would make such a Bonehead move..... Americas really the only friend they got.....The Arabs hate em...the EU Hates em. I guess it all comes down to making a few bucks.....stab your friend in the back for a few bucks.

*GASP* I never thought this day would come... but...

I fully agree with you LA_Maximus.

With the amount of money we pump into Israel i think at the very least we should be able to expect our technology NOT to be leaked or re-sold.

I have to agree as well, Israel definitly double-crossed the US by selling out to the Chinese, I have nothing against development of China since I don't see them as a threat right now.

Originally posted by RichardPrice

Actually, the Maginot line *was* money well spent - when attacked, most of the Maginot forts held out for a long long time until they were ordered to surrender when France capitulated to the Germans. Noone considered the possibility of Germany invading Belgium and simply bypassing the defences and attacking them from the rear, and that included Belgium!

I thought the attack on Nethetherlands was just fake attack to lure French and UK to the north. Than the Germans punched through the Maginot line near Ardennes. (although the M line was weaker in Ardenes).

I fully agree! The Rafale is a very good aircraft, and is an excellent addition to any modern aircraft. I would like one

And why do you think Rafale is so good? I don't think it is better than Grippen only it costs much more. Especially it's radar sucks.

This comes as a breath of fresh air .

Now china cant get stealth tech and the XXJ programme is a gonner .(unless Russia lends a hand)