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John Titor - No need to worry?

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posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by UnExpecte
You finally get it. Ofcourse Titor meant that from 2008 there will be no Olympics played, including the winter ones. When he said they wouldn't be played after 2004 he probably did not have the winter games of 2006 in mind. Indeed, he should have said after 2006. As he was pointing to 2004 as the start of a cold civil war that would develop itself into an armed one, it is understandable he made that minor mistake.

:laugh:
1. You're putting words in Titor's mouth and saying what he should have said. Who are you? Titor? If you're not, then what give you the authority to put words in Titor's mouth?

2. Not once did Titor ever mention it starting cold. He said it would start in 2004 as monthly waco type events (waco was armed conflict) that got progressively worse. These are Titor's words. Does that sound "cold" to you? We're now 2 years in so things should be pretty bad for over half the country now(he said that by 2008, it will have spread throughout the whole country).


For all of whom are desperately seeking the hoax in Titor, be just a bit more patient and we will see if the games are still there in 2008.

For all those who are desperately hopeing for Titor to be real, why are you denying facts? Why do you all keep pushing back the date?


No, Titor stated Western stability would collapse. Not the West itself. Yes, Western stability has collapsed.

What's the difference? If stability isn't there what's holding the countries up?
And do you have any proof western stability has collapsed? Or is this another one of your wishful thinking moments?
Also, if your country isn't stable, again...wouldn't you have more to worry about than the olympics?




posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 10:40 PM
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Let me put this into a bit of perspective... Recently there has been much hubbub about Iran. The reason given is that they may be developing nuclear weapons. The genuine reason is thought to be that Iran is planning to start trading oil in Euro's very soon.

Currently, the American Dollar is the standard in Oil trade... and if the American Dollar ceases to be the standard, the value of the dollar will plummet worldwide. Oil is a big market which the dollar needs to be dominant in, or else many other markets will go the same way and start trading with the Euro.

The Euro has grown in strength since it's inception, currently the only things worth more than the Euro are the Dollar and the English Pound. That was last *I* checked, it could be the Euro is worth more than the Dollar now.

So... to put it in perspective, if the Oil Trade turns to the Euro, China will be trading in Euro's and not dollars... and considering how much in Dollars we owe China, it is likely they will call for a debt repayment. The U.S. Citizens aren't going to let their leaders Nuke China off the face of the earth, which is the only other option the Red, White, and Blue will have. The outcome? Crushing debt that will make the Great Depression look like a sunny tuesday on Walstreet.

Who's fault? The guy in charge right now. National Debt was virtually erased by the close of the Clinton Era, and if such had happened then, there would've been a minor recession. If it happens NOW, America will fall apart at the seams economically.

And you know what? I think if my son is going to starve, I will kill to feed him. That is worth fighting a civil war over.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 11:09 PM
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You have voted TheCrystalSword for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


I see pretty much the same future you just presented as a possible outcome of the American Economy, and I work closely with the Markets.

Just take a look at the rise in the value of Gold despite a 66% increase in production.

Gold is a Hedge against a falling dollar. Take a close look at the Gold Chart in Dollars vs. other currencies. You will see a SHARP rise in the price of Gold, In DOLLARS ONLY. It is NOT a world wide Gold shortage, or buying spree that is causing this rise. It is the TRUE measure of INFLATION when compared to other currencies... On thing the CLINTON Adminstration did was change the way that we Measure Inflation, by changing the goods inside the "basket of goods" that make up the core CPI numbers. Comparing CPI numbers from the past 6 years to CPI numbers 10 years ago is like comparing Oranges and Tangerines.

The American Savings Rate, the amount of $ that the average american person has deposited in the bank is "a negative number!!!" for the first time since 1933 during the great depression. Personal Debt levels are at all time highs. And the housing bubble, what is considered the largest bubble ever in history is. greater than both the Pre-Crash Bubble and the Tech Bubble of 2000. People and Investors purchasing homes recently will find themselves OVER LEVERAGED when the housing markets cool off and Devalue.


Will America go to war to stop the economy from Collapsing? At this point, there is no other choice if America is going to stay the leader in the world.

Taking out China and other competition NOW, before they become a super power would be better than waiting until they are more powerful than us, and we will be at their Mercy. That may be too late.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 11:18 PM
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Oh gosh....



Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
So... to put it in perspective, if the Oil Trade turns to the Euro, China will be trading in Euro's and not dollars... and considering how much in Dollars we owe China, it is likely they will call for a debt repayment. The U.S. Citizens aren't going to let their leaders Nuke China off the face of the earth, which is the only other option the Red, White, and Blue will have.

You're kidding?


The outcome? Crushing debt that will make the Great Depression look like a sunny tuesday on Walstreet.

You're joking?


Who's fault? The guy in charge right now. National Debt was virtually erased by the close of the Clinton Era, and if such had happened then, there would've been a minor recession. If it happens NOW, America will fall apart at the seams economically.

You're serious?


And you know what? I think if my son is going to starve, I will kill to feed him. That is worth fighting a civil war over.

...wow...


1. Where did you get all this from?
2. Nuke China?
That was random. Where in the world did that come from? Why did you pick China over all the hundreds of other countries?
3. Read up on the situation from sites other than conspiricy sites.
These links can explain it better than I can and are reality, not the wishful thinking you just posted....
www.econbrowser.com...
www.energybulletin.net...



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 02:08 AM
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1. Where did you get all this from?
2. Nuke China? That was random. Where in the world did that come from? Why did you pick China over all the hundreds of other countries?
3. Read up on the situation from sites other than conspiricy sites.
These links can explain it better than I can and are reality, not the wishful thinking you just posted....

First of all, let's take a look at our debt with a site that explains it in excess...

American Debt

And if that isn't enough, here is the Wikipedia entry for the American Debt.

U.S. Public Debt

And here is another website which covers the decline of the American Dollar and what that means concerning Debt. I suggest you read this one thoroughly, as it details quite a bit as to what the main problem is.

America's External Debt and the Decline of the Dollar

And here is a chart which shows the debt increases and decreases throughout recent presidential history...

National Debt Increases

Second, to answer your question about China... if the debt collector is dead, who is going to collect? Hence why I said the only option would be to kill at the very least the chinese government who would ask for the money to be returned if the Dollar's value began to fall.

We also owe a great deal of money to Japan, due to how interconnected our economies are... as such, if China moved to the Euro, there's a chance Japan might ask for their chunk of change back as well.

And let us look at the National Debt Clock, with an explanation further down the page in a friendly Q and A session with the guy who runs the site.

National Debt Clock

And so, if you feel that none of these websites are worth their salt, then I can't help you... and I see no reason for you to continue posting in this topic.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
These links can explain it better than I can and are reality, not the wishful thinking you just posted....
www.econbrowser.com...
www.energybulletin.net...


Concerning Link 1... after having read the link, I find that the person who is saying this knows Jack # about economics, as they don't feel the amount of dollars versus yen versus yuan versus english pound has any relevance whatsoever.

If there was little to no relevance, then there is no reason that gas should be $2.50 here in America, but more like $6.00 in Europe. They don't explain why the crushing debt placed on Germany post WW1 was cause for an economic collapse or even how that happened.

I think you personally need to review whatever economics course you took at any point in time, as the first link you presented is nonsense.

As for your second link, it is more coherant and a better example of a source. However, it tends to agree that any of the OPEC nations shifting to a Euro-based valuation of Oil would be bad for the American Dollar.

So, let me do a little example.

Let us say I have a green piece of paper and I give it to you in payment for a service. Now, if it was just green cardboard paper, you wouldn't accept it as payment for something you did for me. However, if I convinced you completely that the local bank would give you $100 for my slips of green cardboard paper, and you went and found out this is true... great. Now then, if someone else was to offer you yellow slips of cardboard paper, and convince you that the bank would give you $200 for each slip of paper... and they gave you the same amount of paper as I did... which would you WANT to have?

Confidence is the only thing supporting the U.S. Dollar. The U.S. Dollar is not covered by anything, as it is just promisary banknotes... and we do not have enough raw resources to pay off the debt accrued. If confidence in the dollar falls... people will want recompense that means something to them from the U.S.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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Couple of things...

It's not just Oil that's traded for the most part in Dollars, it just about everything else as well!
If the dollar falls, it would devastate the global economy. Countries will not allow that to happen. Plain and simple.

As far as US debt...
Take a look around. As a percentage of the GDP, the US is no worse off than other countries. We just have a much larger economy that's why the numbers are so large. And as a percentage, our debt is still no where near what it was after WW2, it's even lower than it was in the 90s before the tech boom. Now if we didn't slip into another great depression those times, what are you so sure we'd do it this time?

Also, if the US collected all the money that's owed to us, or if we demanded that we get repaid for all the foreign aid we send, that would put a huge dent in our debt. But we don't do that. Know why? Because the world is too small and too connected now. We need each other's economy. Other countries will not let the US or the dollar fall as they are way too important to the global economy.


You still haven't explained why we'd nuke China...



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:24 AM
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And you apparently don't have the common courtesy of reviewing websites posted to you, though you expect others to read yours.

Not only that, but you apparently don't feel a need to talk WITH anyone, just AT them since you didn't even reply to ANYTHING I said.

Thanks!

And I explained the China thing.



[edit on 2/15/2006 by TheCrystalSword]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
And you apparently don't have the common courtesy of reviewing websites posted to you, though you expect others to read yours.

Not only that, but you apparently don't feel a need to talk WITH anyone, just AT them since you didn't even reply to ANYTHING I said.

Thanks!

And I explained the China thing.


wtf do you want me to say?
All those websites say the US debt is big. No ****. It's been that way for decades. Not one of those sites are predicting all the doom and gloom you're predicting, you know why? Because again, the world needs the U.S. We are the largest consumers. Our economy, our spending is essential to other countries growth.
Why haven't you addressed that?

What I wrote was for everyone, not just you. This is a public message board. If you want me to hold your hand and talk WITH you, then send a u2u.


And your explanation on China is horrible. I thought you were joking. How in the world did you come to that conclusion? Nuking anyone would only put us in a worse position. Also, if the US were to completely collapse, China would probably just erase our debt. We do it to poor countries all the time (it's like filing for bankruptcy....). Especially to countries we have trade with. And since China is our largest trading partner and needs us, the would likely do the same.
That's how the real world is run. People don't go around nuking anyone.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 08:01 PM
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Which only goes to show that, MAY I POINT OUT AGAIN, you did not bother to READ the websites.

I read both of your links, and I read them completely. I even read the comments from everyone in response to the first link, most of which think the person who posted that article is a complete idiot for not taking into account the actual situation of economics.

You did not bother to spend the time reading the information I provided thoroughly and spending time to try and understand the information presented by each site.

If you want the courtesy of being listened to, which I suspect you do not since you just seem to want to complain in these topics about how stupid other people are, then you should damn well give a point to point to every website that I provided and explain exactly how the U.S. economy will thrive if the actual value of the dollar is made relevant to the world (The Dollar is WORTHLESS and is backed by NOTHING but American Ego and promise).

And if you aren't willing to go point to point and either refute the information I provided or concede that it is relevant in part or whole, then I really don't know why you are on a DISCUSSION BOARD.

In the end, you don't want to discuss anything with anyone. You just want a place where you can whine and complain or where you can ridicule people for not believing as you do about a topic such as John Titor... which isn't even relevant to this particular thread.

At current, I brought up a relevant topic to this thread, and you dismiss it offhandedly as being the wrong view about the greatness that is America, and that America won't fall if some silly nation adopts the Euro.

I vehemently accuse you of knowing NOTHING about economics, and even LESS about having any sort of real, adult, tangible discussion.

Kindly prove me wrong and I'll eat my words.



[edit on 2/15/2006 by TheCrystalSword]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:02 PM
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Are you kidding me?
I asked you WHAT THE $(%* DO YOU WANT ME TO DISCUSS!?
You just now wrote a bunch words...but said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!



Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
Which only goes to show that, MAY I POINT OUT AGAIN, you did not bother to READ the websites.

Yes I did! More than once!
How did you come to that conclusion?

Because I asked you a simple question that you have yet to address? Well those links didn't provide the answer, that's why I asked you.
So...are you going to finally answer the question or are you going to continue to sit there and act like you've made a point?


I read both of your links, and I read them completely.

Congrats, you can read.


I even read the comments from everyone in response to the first link, most of which think the person who posted that article is a complete idiot for not taking into account the actual situation of economics.

Which makes me think you really didn't read it...
Good to see one of them posted that other link I posted which is more detailed.


You did not bother to spend the time reading the information I provided thoroughly and spending time to try and understand the information presented by each site.

Oh please stop it now. You're making yourself look worse with each statement like this. I guarentee I understand it better than you. Which is exactly why I'm not predicting I'll have to kill my fellow Americans over food and you are.


If you want the courtesy of being listened to, which I suspect you do not since you just seem to want to complain in these topics about how stupid other people are, then you should damn well give a point to point to every website that I provided and explain exactly how the U.S. economy will thrive if the actual value of the dollar is made relevant to the world (The Dollar is WORTHLESS and is backed by NOTHING but American Ego and promise).

1. Where have I disagreed with those links? They talk about the debt being high. This is common knowledge. The US has been in debt since the 1800s.
As a percentage of our GDP (which is the number you really look at) it peaked after WW2 at 122%. It fell all the way to 32% in 1981, but then started to rise again reaching it's second peak at 67.3% in 1996. It's now at 63.7% after falling and rising again when the internet/tech bubble inflated then burst.

2. Not one of those links talk about the doom and gloom you posted so
where did you get that from? (I'm going to highlight questions so you can see them better and finally answer them)

3. Those links also don't talk about how the majority of goods are traded in dollars and how any drastic fall of the dollar would devastate the global economy. The US is the largest consumer in the world. The US is the main reason why some countries economies stay afloat. The world needs us (and the dollar) just as much as we need them. Why haven't you addressed this yet?

4. Explain again, because you did a piss poor job the first time. Why will the U.S. nuke China? What benefit could this possibly have?


In the end, you don't want to discuss anything with anyone. You just want a place where you can whine and complain...


pot meet kettle....


or where you can ridicule people for not believing as you do about a topic such as John Titor... which isn't even relevant to this particular thread.

Wow, you could have fooled me. Who knew a thread titled "John Titor - No Need to Worry?" has nothing to do with Titor

Get real man. What did you think this thread was about?


At current, I brought up a relevant topic to this thread, and you dismiss it offhandedly as being the wrong view about the greatness that is America, and that America won't fall if some silly nation adopts the Euro.

No you didn't. You're talking about Iran and the US economy.
This thread is about Titor.

You don't even know what thread your posting in...

And please show me where I posted about the "greatness of America". Please, I'm begging you to show me.

And if it was that easy for the US to fall, then we would have fell a long time ago.



I vehemently accuse you of knowing NOTHING about economics, and even LESS about having any sort of real, adult, tangible discussion.

Kindly prove me wrong and I'll eat my words.

Ok, what about economics do you want to know and discuss so I can show you how stupid you(r posts) are.


jk of course, but seriously, what do you want to discuss?



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:40 PM
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Thatsjustweird is so funny.

He (or she
) is giving everything it takes to provide "proof" against the Titor case.

The "hard case" "proof" is yet the funniest!

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 15-2-2006 by UnExpecte]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by UnExpecte
He (or she
) is giving everything it takes to provide "proof" against the Titor case.

[edit on 15-2-2006 by UnExpecte]


Why don't you feel the same way about the believers doing the same? Is that somehow different?



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:42 PM
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Taken from the link I offered above about America's External Debt and the Decline of the Dollar...




A day after writing the above, I read in The Economist (December 11-17, 2004) a report on the previous week's summit meeting of ASEAN + 3 in Malaysia. That country's prime minister announced that this summit should lay the groundwork for an East Asian Community (EAC) that "should build a free-trade area, cooperate on finance, and sign a security pact ... that would transform East Asia into a cohesive economic block ... In fact, some of these schemes are already in motion ... China, as the region's pre-eminent economic and military power, will doubtless dominate ... and host the second East Asia Summit." The report went on to recall that in 1990, Uncle Sam shot down a similar initiative for fear of losing influence in the region. Now it is a case of "Yankee Stay Home".

Or what if, long before that comes to pass, exporters of oil simply cease to price it in ever-devaluing dollars, and instead make a mint by switching to the rising euro and/or a basket of East Asian currencies? That would at one stroke vastly diminish the world demand for and price of dollars by obliging anyone who wants to buy oil to purchase and increase the demand price of the euro or yen/yuan instead of the dollar. That would crash the dollar and tumble Uncle Sam in one fell swoop, as foreign - and even domestic - owners of dollars would sell off as many of them as fast as they could, and other countries' central banks would switch their reserves out of dollars and away from Uncle Sam's no-longer-safe haven. That would drive the dollar down even more, and of course halt any more dollar inflow to Uncle Sam from the foreigners who have been financing his consumption spree. Since selling oil for falling dollars instead of rising euros is evidently bad business, the world's largest oil exporters in Russia and OPEC have been considering doing just that. In the meantime, they have only raised the dollar price of oil, so that in euro terms it has remained approximately stable since 2000. So far, many oil exporters and others still place their increased amount of dollars with Uncle Sam, even though he now offers an ever less attractive and less safe haven, but Russia is now buying more euros with some of its dollars.


If you bothered to read anything I offered, you certainly don't show it as every single link does claim that Iran moving to the Euro would be devastating to both the American Economy and worldwide trade relations with America. If nobody wants American Money, we can't pursuade them to import to us. If nobody wants American Money, we can't buy goods from overseas.... we have to then manufacture what we want on our own, and our infrastructure for that has been nickeled and dimed to death over the last three decades.

Name a computer component built IN the United States BY the U.S. on a major commercial Scale, by the way.

I posted several links specifically on the amount of debt, some of which illustrates that the Debt has increased exponentially every time a Republican was in office.

Debt is different from Deficit, by the way.

The reason why most of my links detailed the DEBT is because you asked me where I was getting my concepts of Debt from... anyone who understands supply and demand should know the outcome if the American Dollar not considered important in the oil market.

Can you tell me what the gross production ratio of goods produced in the United States is, ignoring any service based industry?

What do we Export that other countries Import?

And since you cannot seem to understand what the # I was saying concerning China... if China decides to move to the Euro, America has two options. One, let them do so. Two, prevent them with Force.

Since you can't appear to understand what it is I meant, let me make it even simpler for you. If we go to war with China, we will lose in a manpower fight. The only option we have in such a war is to either kill all people in power, or nuke the entire country.

And since you might not even be following why I brought that up, I said that this is the worst outcome, and that the U.S. citizens would revolt against their government if it sanctimoniously decided to nuke China.

So let me clarify this so that even you can understand, I never said we should nuke China, I never said that was the likely outcome, and I never said it was a good idea.

And you apparently aren't aware that the second link you provided which you felt supports YOUR theory as to why the American Economy wouldn't collapse if Iran moved to the Euro DID EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what you intended.

That reason, specifically, is why I feel you don't bother to read the webpages presented to you. That and when you make claims such as "Not one of those links talk about the doom and gloom you posted", and I respond citing at least one instance where ONE of my links DID in fact claim that the Euro being adopted by OPEC would be a Very Bad Thing(TM).

Also, your apparent inability to understand what other people say, or to respond in a intellectual manner which denotes at least some credibility on a subject other than laughing and ridiculing the person you are talking to...

or Rolling your eyes and acting as if the person you are talking to doesn't know what they are talking about.

Every time I see you post it's one of the above manners of speech... you either ridicule the person for believing something stupid, you make fun of them as if they don't know what they are talking about, you pretend as if you are the authority on subjects and you post information that doesn't support your position, or if it does, it does so poorly.

Oh, and just in case you didn't catch me answering your China question, here's the answer again. I never said we should nuke China, I never said that it was a good idea, I never said that we were going to. I said that nuking china would be one of the only possible outcomes if we had to deal with China in an aggressive manner. Possibly the only option, considering they are the largest army in the world and outnumber our troops by about 8 to 1.

Fighting any sort of battle with China is a lose-lose situation at this point in history, EXCEPT a nuclear war. If China decides to adopt the Euro, or any other form of universal currency NOT the dollar, the demand for the Dollar goes down. We want the demand for the dollar to remain throughout the world, because otherwise we OWE everyone money and nobody wants OURS because if everyone wants EUROS, DOLLARS are not EUROS.

And let me explain again what I feel you may have missed after I just explained again the answer cncerning China... considering you seem to forget to respond to each individual point presented to you.

The way in which you post lends almost no confidence to any credibility you might have, because you make personal attacks on a person with the kind of attitude you put into every post you make. You demean others, and you do so in a blithe manner, you act as if you are the authority on subjects without giving adequate information to support the claims you make... and that information you do present is either poor or not in your favor.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
Name a computer component built IN the United States BY the U.S. on a major commercial Scale, by the way.


Intel processors in Rio Rancho, AZ
I dunno, that's kinda a big one, I think, though it was hard to track down a manufacturing plant's location.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

Intel processors in Rio Rancho, AZ
I dunno, that's kinda a big one, I think, though it was hard to track down a manufacturing plant's location.


I didn't ask where the central headquarters of any good is. I want to know where they are manufactured for commercial use. I want to know where motherboards are made, processors are made, keyboards, monitors, DVD players...

Name something MANUFACTURED in the U.S.A.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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I specifically stated it was a manufacturing plant.

Here's a link to an article of the plant opening; I knew you weren't looking for corporate headquarters.

www.bizjournals.com...



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 11:02 PM
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Fair enough, JJ.... I'll concede, it is a manufacturing plant.

Tell me though... what do you think the ratio of such plants are in the U.S.? Or more simply, do you think we manufacture enough to rely upon only our own manufacturing power at this time in our history? And, also, what do you think the outcome for OPEC converting to the EURO backed Oil base would be for the U.S.D.?



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Intel processors in Rio Rancho, AZ
I dunno, that's kinda a big one, I think, though it was hard to track down a manufacturing plant's location.



Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
You did not bother to spend the time reading the information I provided thoroughly and spending time to try and understand the information presented by each site.


Just had to point that out as part of a crusade I've begun since the opportunity has been so apparent through current news, emphasis of my post added. I meant to edit my post, but you beat me to the punch


As to the majority, I don't know for sure. As I stated, it is difficult to track down manufacturing plants for companies like Intel, AMD, semiconductor manufacturers, etc. because this information bears very little relevance to selling their product or supporting their product. I had to explore externally to discover the Intel plant, though Intel was the first company that came to mind when I read your question. So I can't give you a percentage or even an estimate of where the majority of American electronics companies have their manufacturing plants without delving deeply into investment information. Why don't I? I've pretty much disengaged from this conversation and only read through the thread for the same amusement I gain from reading Byrd's Serpo thread. It's not worth investing hours into discovering the locations of plants to address a post you presented. Maybe thatsjustweird will be inspired and do the research if (s)he is interested.

Ponto.


[edit on 2/16/06/16 by junglejake]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by UnExpecte


Thatsjustweird is so funny.

He (or she
) is giving everything it takes to provide "proof" against the Titor case.

The "hard case" "proof" is yet the funniest!

www.abovetopsecret.com...




Unexpecte is hillarious
Wasn't that dealt with like a month ago? Why does (s)he decide to bring this up now?
Anyway, I'm not providing proof against the Titor case, I'm waiting for you and others to provide the evidence for the Titor case. You all keep yapping, but you're not providing any proof. I'm showing you the inaccuracies in the Titor story, it's up to you to prove they're not inaccurate.

******


If you bothered to read anything I offered, you certainly don't show it as every single link does claim that Iran moving to the Euro would be devastating to both the American Economy and worldwide trade relations with America. If nobody wants American Money, we can't pursuade them to import to us. If nobody wants American Money, we can't buy goods from overseas.... we have to then manufacture what we want on our own, and our infrastructure for that has been nickeled and dimed to death over the last three decades.

1. It's Febuary 16, 2005. Iran still hasn't said they're going to convert to Euros. Just wanted to point that out.

2. Nobody wants American money? What part of almost everything that's traded is in USD is hard to understand? For that reason alone, the dollar will not fall as rapidly as you're suggesting if Iran sells oil in Euros. You think that if Iran converts to Euros well over half the world would just convert their currency to Euros as well? Or start immediately trading in Euros because Iran is doing it? No, it doesn't work that way.

3. There aren't enough countries that have enough money to make up for what would be loss, should the US and the dollar fall. This would devastate the global economy. You don't seem to be getting this through your head. That's why countries WILL NOT let the dollar fall. Countries do have a choice in this matter.
But since you're so sure they would allow the dollar to fall. Where are they going to get the money from to pick up the billions upon billions of dollars that they will lose daily?


Debt is different from Deficit, by the way.

The reason why most of my links detailed the DEBT is because you asked me where I was getting my concepts of Debt from... anyone who understands supply and demand should know the outcome if the American Dollar not considered important in the oil market.

First part is irrelevant as I never mentioned the deficit...
(you did make the mistake of saying debt when you meant deficit. "National Debt was virtually erased by the close of the Clinton Era"
lol, no it wasn't. It has been on a steady increase since the 1800s. It just increased less during those times)

And supply and demand is the very thing that will keep the dollar afloat. Until enough countries have enough money to buy Euros to be able to trade in Euros and threaten the dollar, the dollar will stay afloat. That's a process that takes YEARS not weeks. Again, most goods are made and bought from fairly poor countries because they're cheaper. The vast majority of these countries trade in dollars. Once these countries start converting to Euros, then you'll see the dollar in trouble.


And since you cannot seem to understand what the # I was saying concerning China... if China decides to move to the Euro, America has two options. One, let them do so. Two, prevent them with Force.

Europe uses the Euro....
Why didn't we prevent them by force? You think we don't owe European countries?


Since you can't appear to understand what it is I meant, let me make it even simpler for you. If we go to war with China, we will lose in a manpower fight. The only option we have in such a war is to either kill all people in power, or nuke the entire country.

1. I can guarentee you we will not go to war with China for using the Euro. Well, maybe in your fantasy world, but not here in the real world

2. If we were to go to war with China over something like that, I seriously doubt it'd be an invasion. If it's not an invasion, the US would win. China could draw at best.

3. China is our largest trading partner. Nuking them would not benefit us one bit (especially since the goal would be to get them to return to dollars) and would not happen unless they nuked us first.


And since you might not even be following why I brought that up, I said that this is the worst outcome, and that the U.S. citizens would revolt against their government if it sanctimoniously decided to nuke China.

So let me clarify this so that even you can understand, I never said we should nuke China, I never said that was the likely outcome, and I never said it was a good idea.

I never said you said it was a good idea...

And you said it would happen.
You're just now saying this would be the worst outcome. In your first post concerning this you just said that this WOULD happen.


That reason, specifically, is why I feel you don't bother to read the webpages presented to you. That and when you make claims such as "Not one of those links talk about the doom and gloom you posted", and I respond citing at least one instance where ONE of my links DID in fact claim that the Euro being adopted by OPEC would be a Very Bad Thing(TM).

By their understanding. And I'm not disputing it's bad. It's much more better for us and the dollar for them to mainly trade in dollars, but if they don't, there's no credible evidence the world would end.
And again, not one of those links said anything about nuclear war and the complete collapse of the US as you did.


And you apparently aren't aware that the second link you provided which you felt supports YOUR theory as to why the American Economy wouldn't collapse if Iran moved to the Euro DID EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what you intended.



Just read it again, couldn't find anything in it that said the US economy would collapse. I did find this though, this is exactly what I'm talking about...

For all of the rich countries in the world, a sudden devaluation against the dollar has the potential to be far more damaging than a sudden devaluation against the euro, the yen, the yuan, the rubble, etc. This is because most of the goods and services traded internationally are priced and paid for in dollars and, virtually all commodity trade, including the trade of oil which is by far the most important good traded internationally, is denominated in dollars.

Main reason why countries will not let a sudden devaluation of the dollar to happen....


So can we conclude that an Iranian oil bourse trading oil in euros is the real reason for the current crisis? Perhaps this is prematurely jumping to conclusions. The claim that the Iranian bourse will definitely trade in euros appears to me to be based primarily on speculation at this stage.



Also, your apparent inability to understand what other people say, or to respond in a intellectual manner which denotes at least some credibility on a subject other than laughing and ridiculing the person you are talking to...

Care to cite examples of this?


or Rolling your eyes and acting as if the person you are talking to doesn't know what they are talking about.

If I have done this, then I'm pretty sure the person I did it to really didn't know what he/she was talking about.
And that's ok to not know what you're talking about. You're ignorant until someone teaches you.


Every time I see you post it's one of the above manners of speech... you either ridicule the person for believing something stupid, you make fun of them as if they don't know what they are talking about, you pretend as if you are the authority on subjects and you post information that doesn't support your position, or if it does, it does so poorly.

Care to cite examples?
I always ask that, but never get any responses back. I wonder why?


Oh, and just in case you didn't catch me answering your China question, here's the answer again. I never said we should nuke China, I never said that it was a good idea, I never said that we were going to.

Your quote was...
"So... to put it in perspective, if the Oil Trade turns to the Euro, China will be trading in Euro's and not dollars... and considering how much in Dollars we owe China, it is likely they will call for a debt repayment. The U.S. Citizens aren't going to let their leaders Nuke China off the face of the earth, which is the only other option the Red, White, and Blue will have."
1. You speculate China would just suddenly trade in Euros
2. You say the only option the US would have is to nuke china off the face of the earth. This doesn't make much sense especially since other countries we owe are already dealing in Euros and we haven't nuked anyone.
3. Why would China call for a debt repayment after the dollar falls? How will this be beneficial to China?


The way in which you post lends almost no confidence to any credibility you might have, because you make personal attacks....


Just reread my posts. Not one personal attack in them. The closest thing was "you don't even know what thread you're posting in."
I'm still waiting for you to address that btw (since you're supposed to go over every single point). Is this or is this not a Titor thread?


you act as if you are the authority on subjects without giving adequate information to support the claims you make... and that information you do present is either poor or not in your favor.

Ok, tell me what subjects, and I'll provide you with more info. Not a problem at all. You just have to tell me what you need info on instead of complaining that I'm not providing info. Tell me what I'm not providing info on!





It's not worth investing hours into discovering the locations of plants to address a post you presented. Maybe thatsjustweird will be inspired and do the research if (s)he is interested.

He.

And, I'm not going to rule out doing the research. If I'm shown that this is in some way relevant to this Titor thread...

to answer this question

Or more simply, do you think we manufacture enough to rely upon only our own manufacturing power at this time in our history?

No we don't but I'm pretty sure we can.
We don't because it's MUCH cheaper to buy things overseas. Doesn't mean we don't have the ability though...


[edit on 16-2-2006 by ThatsJustWeird]





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