I really didn't want this to descend into a "Does Titor exist or not" debate. I am sure that those debates have been beaten to death over and over in other threads.

I am more interested in debating the possibility of the cause and effects of his predictions and time travel.

By the way, thank you for all the good points brought up.

Originally posted by Nygdan
The John Titor story is something that can't, technically, be assed by 'normal standard'. We can't say 'time travel don't happen, therefore the story is b/s" because of obvious reasons. However, to equally come in and say 'well maybe things are just different and thats why the story don't come true' is equally unrealistic. The story stands or falls on its own merits. Titor's story falls, completely, on its face. No fufilment of conditions, no reality to the story.

Titor was concerned with Waco becuase whoever was pretending to be him was a militiaman, or a militaman-fan. The entire story reads like a militiaman's wet dream. The "american federal empire' made of of 'city-folk' who don't care none 'bout their liberties, the US getting nuked by the Ruskies, and then 'citizen-militias' restoring order. And whats the outcome, how is everything restored, who is society perfected, technology advanced to the point of having time travel? Because of de-centralization of the constitution. Its an anti-federalist's fantasy land.

Certain aspects of his predictions, such as mass civil unrest due to public discontent in the system were not exactly a sure thing in the pre-911 world. Sure it seems obvious now, but back then the world seemed a different place. His thoughts on China were fairly good as well. Look at the muscle-flexing going on now between them and Japan. So there is no blood on the streets in 2005. That makes him completely wrong so we should just ignore him.

As for the Waco debacle, sure it raises some militia type hackles. I don't remember him describing his world as "perfect" or that there was any wide spread restoration of order, more of a tired status-quo. I think the technology for time travel was already well advanced before the fall, according to him.

As for the general point I am making here, if you can let go of the comfort blanket of his being proven a "fake", while some of what he talked about is still moving along, certain aspects have changed. Was this a deliberate move on his part or just an accident?

[edit on 20-4-2005 by howmuchisthedoggy]

Nope, no need to worry. Why? Because he's a false prophet. Whew!

Originally posted by junglejake
Nope, no need to worry. Why? Because he's a false prophet. Whew!

Okay.

I know that the same inability to read and comprehend what John Titor wrote is the same as the inability to read and understand the concept of this thread.

I know a large majority of people wish to just roll over and go back to sleep. Fine. If you can't get your head around the possibility that:

a) Time Travel may be possible.
b) There is more to life than what is written in the bible.
c) Your inability to comprehend a simple discussion is due to an environmentally induced fugue.
d) Constantly denying something doesn't make it go away.

Then go bother someone else in a thread vaguely related to what is being discussed. You don't believe John Titor existed? That he was a fake? Fine. I respect your opinion. Stop reading this thread now.

If your curiosity is even the slightest bit piqued however, that someone could write something 4 odd years ago, that while outrageous at the time is now widely accepted fact, that expressions such as "Weapons of Mass Destruction" were being used 3 years before they entered the common lexicon, that predicitons of a nation divided and a civilian population in unrest seem to be coming through before our eyes, then maybe we can talk further.

I could get into a debate with the Titor-bashers about every little sentence and mis-quote on their part, but I have seen how it descends into running in circles on other thread forums. Many before me have spoken eloquently in Titor's defence, and while I have seen many good points made for the case against Titor, I have yet to see anything satisfactorily disprove his existence. Misquote and misdirection, bluster and insult. The last refuges of minds clinging to the river banks before being swept into the light.

Let's not argue!

I don't know if John Titor was telling the truth or not, but I do believe we'll achieve time travel in the next 50 years or so and maybe we're already getting visitors from the future.

I do know that he didn't have anything to do with us avoiding the Y2K problem, that was done by a lot of planning and hard work. To people that weren't in the industry, it seems like it just disappeared or never existed, but anyone that worked in computers in the mid 90's can tell you about the endless meetings and discussions we went through to prepare for 2000. All the major software companies re-wrote their code to be Y2K compliant, every application that was developed on old platforms had to be tested on the new operating systems, re-written, re-compiled, years of work that got proportionally larger the bigger the company was.

The fact that there were so few problems still amazes me, but it definitely wasn't because John Titor went to his parent's prom.

Thank you for all your interesting links. The Alas, Babylon information is quite interesting.

So, how about this?

Let's say for arguments sake that John Titor didn't come from a post-apocalyptic future. If only to give the incredible hoax-busters a rest from their hard work.

Clear your minds. Take a deep breath.

In the year 2000 a guy called John started making predictions viz. the breakdown of civil order and a descent into a police state. He foreshadowed a lot of internet chatter about loss of freedoms, loss of control of government and such. This is all very main-stream now, but in the days pre-911, it was still pretty much out there. He was on the mark about a lot of things, which is more than can be said for other prophets.

It's like David Icke and his NWO/reptilians. You get a gut feeling that there is some truth to it until you hear about the big lizards. Or in Titor's case the time-travelling and WWIII. People tune out and forget about the important bits.

I want to believe in Titor, but here is why I don't. He speaks in terms of "years". The year 2036, the year 2000, etc. If what he states is true, then wouldn't there be a different time line for every millisecond of every second of every minute within that year? The way he spoke seemed to infer that everything was in "years". I could be wrong, and I know he gave an answer to a question similar to this, but there are too many problems with his story for me.

hey howmuchisthedoggy,

I just want you to know I think Time travel is quite possible but I dont think it is right now.. But as we see in alot of TV shows/Moves alot of things that were made to be so crazy like Celphones and things in Star Trek are now a reality...

So i wouldnt be to suprised if we were actually time traveling now its just nobody knows about it...

Ever hear of the Philadelphia Experiment

One thing titor was right that he predicted that CERN would accidently develop a black hole in a lab and it did happen this year

Originally posted by warthog911
One thing titor was right that he predicted that CERN would accidently develop a black hole in a lab and it did happen this year

Yes, that and quite a few other things as well. However, most of the Titor-bashers focus on the similarities to the Alas, Babylon book and ignore everything else he says. How many books were written on WWII? How many people had similar stories?

Say someone could travel back to the 1950's from today. They started telling people about our current Big Brother society. People would then dismiss them as frauds. They probably got their idea for this mad future from that Orwell bloke and his book 1985 they would say. They would ignore everything else even though what is being said was quite astute.

Of course people have problems with what he says. He holds a mirror up to our society and we don't like what we see. The very notion he is right is enough to send chills down your spine. He had endured much debate and I have yet to be convinced he didn't exist. However I do believe his influence is having a change for the good.

OK I belived he may have been real.. A freind IMs me and goes...

"Hey man check out this guy.. he Claims to be from the future." after he links me to the site I read the real titor site and then started looking for more.. that is then when I started finding the bad parts about him along with the good.

I made a complete diagnosis in 2 weeks.. of the staggering evidence from that site I gave you and one of the origianl people who was in on this titor gig from the beginning starting to doubt this guy is real.. it Kinda makes you wonder about how true something really is...

its kinda like I say well the WTC was taking down by a bardbardment of eggs.... now we can easily disprove that just by looking anywhere on the net.. only problem is when I found the discrediting info i accidently found it...

I still think he is fake.. he could have a few good guesses just by going on past history or just being a genious.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
I still think he is fake.. he could have a few good guesses just by going on past history or just being a genious.

You make a very good point here. Even if he was fake, he was pretty spot on about more than he was slightly off about.

A genius? Doubtful....

Well-read? Maybe.

A Time-Traveller? Who knows.

thanks howmuchisthedoggy